The Final Days of Final Fantasy 205
An anonymous reader writes "Could the Final Fantasy series have finally come to an end? About.com's Adrien-Luc Sanders thinks so in his article The Final Days of Final Fantasy. I'm sure many people here remember Final Fantasy VII and how it helped Sony win the console market away from Nintendo. The article contends that Final Fantasy's glory days are over, that with the release of Final Fantasy X-2, the underwhelming EverQuest clone Final Fantasy XI, and the much-delayed Final Fantasy XII (finally confirmed for a 2006 US release), we've effectively seen the end of Final Fantasy. Is it time for Square-Enix to give up on Final Fantasy?"
Might not hurt... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
We need more comments like yours, IMHO. The series has its ups and downs, but as you've duly noted, people are still buying-- including some of these whiners, no doubt.
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:5, Insightful)
I concur. In my opinion, FFVI and Chrono Trigger (among other notable SNES titles) were the apex of RPG gaming. Now it seems to me like game producers (especially at S-E) are putting less and less empathsis on the story and gameplay, instead opting to always try to be the RPG with the "next-generation" graphics in order to further capatilize on their already erroding franchise. I so appall this game design mentality that I starting creating my own RPG game akin to FFVI, what I still consider to be the best RPG ever. Sometimes you must take a few steps backwards in order to move forward again. I hope someone at S-E realizes this before it is too late to save Final Fantasy (or what remains of it).
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Seemed like essentially everybody did, sadly.
I would put it on equal footing with Chrono Trigger and FF6. A very different game, but completely enjoyable for all 160+ hours I played it. I'd love to play it a second time, but... man, what a time investment.
I hope the next Dragon Quest can live up to it.
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
The story was quite involving though.
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Rob
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Corrected. The PC RPG genre continues to get better with the best yet to come.
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, VII in many ways nailed the coffin shut. First off, it was so popular that Square followed a formula and all the rest have been pretty much the same. Am I the only person annoyed by the general hero, now little more than a thin, androgenous anime figure?
FFX did it for me; I couldn't play the same hero character. I probably won't return to a FF title, if for no other reason than animation alone; I'm tired of playing anime games. But that's my own personal opinion and a large majority of gamers don't seem to mind this. So I'll stick to whatever else comes along.
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Heh. Actually, no, that didn't bug me. I bought a PS for FFVII. I was so in love with FFIII (US Version) that I thought I'd be in for more. Sadly, it just didn't do it for me. I discovered that walking around randomly fighting monsters wa
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
7- went way too far into technology, horibile magic system (your best meleers should not have access to the best magic), story sucked other than the Aeris death, game was just too eqasy (none of the bosses were a challenge, even spending no leveling time)
8-Same as above, even worse story, and the summon magics took way too fucking long, doing several 20s long cutscenes a fight is way too much
9-Not too bad, story was so-so
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
1 - Very limited due to hardware of the day. Desperately needs a remake to at least bring it up to the level of 6. Magic system was far too simple. Item system was OK.
2 - Needs a *real* US release. Playstation ports are slow and sucky. GBA lacks the living-room-comfort factor Also should get "the treatment" and bring it up to more modern standards. Once they've done that, I could play it and comment on it as a game.
3 - Has anyone that doesn't rea
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Agreed, I thought Dragon (Warrior/Quest) 2, which came out at the same time, was a superior game.
2 - Needs a *real* US release. Playstation ports are slow and sucky. GBA lacks the living-room-comfort factor Also should get "the treatment" and bring it up to more modern standards. Once they've done that, I could play it and comment on it as a g
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
"Barely arguable" if you let nostalgia cloud your judgement on what has been done well with the series. It's clear that FF VI is one the high points of series(My personal favorites would be something like FF VI,VII,X), but to say that the series has been downhill since VI is overgeneralizing.
There has been quite a lot good things done with the series since VI: the addition of CGI did much to potray the worlds of FF; Many fun m
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2, Insightful)
that's what imagination is for.
granted i know 99.9% of the gaming population has none but come on, you have to develop it sooner or later...
and god, how the mini-games suck. i want to play the game, not a game in the game that is time consuming, boring and frankly a waste of development time.
hell even FF 6 partly sucked because they started making it into a digital soap opera bu
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
FFVI, along with Panzer Dragoon Saga, represent the pinacle of
Re:Might not hurt... (Score:2)
Re:Still downhill but... (Score:2)
Well, this is exactly why articles such as the one we're talking about are patently ridiculous. Everybody has their own favorite FF games. For you, IX is a favorite. For others, VII. For still others, VI. I personally think X ranks right up there - I admit to getting a bit misty-eyed at the end, and did not
Re:Still downhill but... (Score:2)
Final fantsz more of a colection (Score:4, Insightful)
I am not a major FF fan but i do enjoy the games , honestly its just a small dip which hapens to anything long running
I never take Death reports/predictions in the Tech industry to seriously.
Re:Final fantsz more of a colection (Score:3, Funny)
Even when Netcraft confirms it?
Re:Final fantsz more of a colection (Score:2)
Re:Final fantsz more of a colection (Score:2)
Give this man the John Dvorak award! (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if SE completely abandons offline games they will still paste the Final Fantasy name on their games, though I expect to see a Dragon Warrior MMO before the next MMO FF.
Re:Give this man the John Dvorak award! (Score:2)
I nominate your sig!
End of Final Fantasy? (Score:3, Interesting)
the answer is no (Score:5, Interesting)
the answer is a resounding no. However, they need to go back to what made it so special in the past. That is, back off of the convoluted plot, the rediculous looking and uninteresting characters, and the complicated and boring skills systems. Instead, bring back the spirit of adventure. Those that have played it will remember the magic of getting to finally pilot the air ship in FFIV, where you could FINALLY go over mountains and such, and visit those remote places in the overworld. It was the gameplay, the original and loveable characters (even characters we may idolize to some extent... it'd be nice to be as cool as Locke) that makes FFIV and FFVI the best in the series for so many of us.
SquareEnix needs to take a step back and return to its roots. FFIX was a step in the right direction, if you ask me. FFX was a supreme dissapointment, and FFXII looks to be much of the same. A gorgeous soundtrack will only take you so far.
Re:the answer is no (Score:3, Interesting)
You remember Kefka (sprites) [ffcompendium.com], right? Take a look at some of the original concept art [ffcompendium.com] and the resultant FMV interpretation [ffcompendium.com].
On the rest of it, I'll agree with you in FFIX good, FFX meh.
Re:the answer is no (Score:2)
I agree with this. Now that they're partnered up with Enix, its time to let the company coast on the other franchises it has, and retool Final Fantasy. They've got to give it a breather like Toho did with Godzilla, and then bring it back.
I'm not likin
RPG Gameplay need a revolution... (Score:2)
What the hell is "the spirit of adventure?". Leave it to human beings to be nice and vague without thinking something through. For 80-90% of the game you are fighting and collecting goodies and playing mini-games with FMV intermissions along the way. RPG battle systems used to be important until the populace started go
Re:the answer is no (Score:2)
Hm, lets see (Score:2)
Yep, its time to call Final Fantasy dead.
Re:Hm, lets see (Score:2)
So far every system FF has been on has received 3 FF games, also FFIII came out in Japan for the NES the same year the SNES was released. FFVI came out in Japan the same year the PSX was released.
Complain all you want about the FF series, but it's still a decent playable story
... Huh? (Score:2)
Sorta off topic, but... wow. I'm wondering if he meant NES or SNES... The game and age make me think NES, though.
The pinnacle of Final Fantasy was when all of the development was focused on the main lineage and the occasional Tactics or Crystal Chr
wheee lets try this the other way round. (Score:2, Funny)
Sounds just about as plausible, which is to say not at all
But then again, chances are About.com or at least Mr Sanders will be gone long before Final Fantasy is.
Nonsense article (Score:5, Insightful)
The author's main problem is that he didn't like FFXI or FFX-2. As far as I'm concerned, that's his problem. Far from being a failure, FFXI still has a commanding position in terms of the size of its user-base. Last I saw, it was only behind WoW and the Korean MMORPGs (for which figures should be treated with a degree of caution due to the methodology used to count players there). Indeed, before the release of WoW, it had been the biggest MMORPG played outside of Korea for quite a while. User figures have been steady for a long time, with the release of WoW not making any significant dent. In the highly competative, dog-eat-dog world of MMORPG publishing, I'd call that a resounding success, rather than a harbinger of doom.
FFX-2 has always been contraversial among Final Fantasy fans. I'll admit that it's never been my favorite installment in the series (this would be FFX - and yes, I've played the whole "main" series, including FF6). However, this isn't to say it's without merit. In many ways, it's a return to more traditional gameplay, with a much steeper difficulty curve than other recent games in the series and a job-based character system. If you approach it without expecting it to be "more of the same" from FFX, then it's actually a very good RPG. A lot of tormented, gothy Final Fantasy fans felt they had to dislike FFX-2 out of principle, because it's actually quite upbeat. Personally, I'm secure enough that I can play a game like this without it making me "doubt my masculinity" (author's words).
The most significant issue the author raises, in my view, is the wait for FFXII. This has certainly been longer than I expected. However, I think this is largely a reflection of the fact that development times and costs have risen, to match customer expectations. When you completely rework your graphical engine, combat system and game world for each installment of your series, you can't be expected to stick to a Madden-style production schedule. At any rate, I'll reserve judgement on FFXII until I can actually play it.
Re:Nonsense article (Score:2)
Blitzball was pure evil though.
Re:Nonsense article (Score:2)
Re:Nonsense article (Score:2)
gamers grow up... (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember saving allowance money for months to afford Dragon Warrior IV, with its hefty 59.99 price tag from Toys R Us...
I played the heck out of these games, and cannot say the same about the 'next gen' iterations (Dragon Warrior VII as an exception, but just because the game is so damn long, and seemed to hold my attention)
I don't think the problem is that Square-Enix is stagnating... I think it's getting increasingly more difficult to hold the gamer's attention who grew up with these games. I remember crying when Celes lept off the cliff in FFIII (FF6), but the famous 'death of Aerith' in FFVII completely failed to evoke the same reaction. It was too predicted, and scripted... though the music was tear-jerking.
Anyway, I don't think the games are going anywhere. Square-Enix needs to reach harder into the younger market though, and bring in new fans to the series.
Re:gamers grow up... (Score:2)
Nice attempt at revisionist history, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you on it. At least in North America, console RPGs were popularized by FF7. FF6 sold around 750,000 in NA during its entire lifespan; FF7 sold that many in less than three months. Nobody outside of hardcore gaming circles was talking about Final Fantasy until the seventh game came out.
Rob
Re:gamers grow up... (Score:2)
Certainly, at least not within North America. How did that make FF6 popular, though?
Notice the large number of FF6 imitators on the Playstation and PS2?
No.
Rob
Re:gamers grow up... (Score:2)
My 8-bit NES still sits in my living room, almost 20 years after I mowed lawns all summer in 1985 to scrape together the $100 to buy it. To me, Final Fantasy is characters with 4-letter names and Bikke the pirate. I was grown up and in college by the time the rest of the FF games came out, and I didn't have the surplus income for a gaming system
My apologies to FF fans... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:My apologies to FF fans... (Score:2)
I also liked Final Fantasy Tactics for the GBA. I've never been much of a Square fan, but I have enjoyed their recent Nintendo offerings greatly.
Classics (Score:2)
Re:Classics (Score:2)
You can try Final Fantasy: Dawn of Souls, but be warned... it has been severely nerfed.
Re:Classics (Score:2)
Re:Classics (Score:2)
Ah, but we have seen it again. Although the Final Fantasy series returned to the experience level system with the next installment, Square's own SaGa series (Final Fantasy Legend in the
Summary: He don't like FFX-2 (Score:2, Insightful)
And golly gosh, what is the reason? It must be Enix because the merger happened around the time that FFX-2 sucked. You want some real evidence? Come on, he's busy trying to make a point here!
But maybe this is just the current state of affairs for Video Game Op-Ed.
This is where I stopped reading: (Score:3, Funny)
He had the same video game system from the time he was five until high school (what? 9 years at the least) and in that 9+ years he can't even get the name of the game or the system he owned correct? Was it Super Mario World for the Super Nintendo or was it Super Mario 2 for the NES? I'm being anal but that was enough to make him sound like my mother or father do when they describe every video game system I own as a Nintendo.
Re:This is where I stopped reading: (Score:2)
Wow. Two, possibly three whole years of industry experience? We must listen to this wise and sagely old one. He likely even remembers back to the days when monitors weren't even flat, hard drives only came in tens of gigabytes and you were lucky if your PC had 512mb of ram!
Seriously, the next article is going to be:
"AOL message board reports: W177 W
Re:This is where I stopped reading: (Score:2)
One big reply.. (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing is, that the FF team are VERY ambitious when it comes to what they do. They make very wide changes for every game. Trying new things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So I don't blame them for the misses. The harder you throw the more you can miss. But for the misses...and most of them were oh so close....
2J:A very clumsy level up system. Just didn't work at all. The biggest miss.
6:Yes, you heard me right. A wonderful game that fell apart for the second half of the game. The fact that the game is so wonderful for the rest of it makes it even more painful.
8:A broken combat system made most of the game a timewasting chore. (You can convert Tents to Curegas which you can junction for a near invincible amount of HP through most of the game)
X-2:A wonderful combat system, and the episodic nature of it..but yet...
Ok I'll be frank. The tone of the game was wrong. It tried to be light and airy, but frankly, it was just painful. It was too depressing. After playing through X, (best story of any of the games), watching the hidden depression of Yuna was WAY too much. way way WAY too much.
But I liked that X played like a pilgramage. It worked for that game. It felt way more personal than any other game in the series. As well, I liked the micro-level ups.
Re:One big reply.. (Score:2)
I found that after a certain part, (Namely getting back the Airship) the story just kind of fell apart. Because you could get the characters back in any order really, there was no real go-between with any of them. It was just kind of vapid backstory, and no real movement of the bigger picture. It was a preperation phase that took about 10 hours. Far too long.
The last tower/boss/ending were great 'tho.
Re:One big reply.. (Score:2)
For me? X is the pinnacle of the series. I was kind of confounded at first. No Overworld map? Weird. But when you play through the game it makes s
considering sony used FF7 as a tech demo for ps3 (Score:2)
Is Final Fantasy coming to an end? (Score:2)
While I may not like its incarnations after FFVII (the best was FFVI), I find the games innovating and charming. They always put some weirdo new magic system, and they always have some convoluted history. This, together with great graphics in new consoles, will keep it alive.
The problem I see, is that FFVIII, FFX and FFX-2 have been love histories above anything else, which may have alienated their core fan base. Same thing with FFXI, which wasn't everybody's coup of tea. But FFXII is being develope
Re:Is Final Fantasy coming to an end? (Score:3, Interesting)
Auron's plan the entire story is to manipulate Tidus and Yuna, to make them fall into love, so that Yuna would be incapable of sacrificing Tidus for the greater good, destroying the church of Yevon and getting his revenge on Yunalesca, and fufilling Jecht's last wish.
The actual story is about the "fall" of Yuna, and how her rejection of her religion sav
Re:Is Final Fantasy coming to an end? (Score:2)
Re:Is Final Fantasy coming to an end? (Score:2)
Of course I'd probably get subtitles on the order of the previous FF games, which didn't exactly contend for nobel prizes in literature either.
Conculsion (Score:2)
Re:Conculsion (Score:2)
Re:Conculsion (Score:2)
As someone else said, the Final Fantasy "series" isn't a series in the sense you take it to mean. It's a franchise, or a brand. More specifically, it's a showcase flagship for Squa
If you ask me.... (Score:2)
Personally, I liked a lot of the games in different ways. I loved the skill system and difficulty of FF5. The freedom to choose characters in FF1 added diversity and replayability. FF6's system allowed both customizability and uniqueness to each character. FF8 had the worst ability syst
More News, Please (Score:2)
The fact that the comment thread is all about past Final Fantasies rather than future ones says a lot about how discussion worthy the original news post was. 'Death of Final Fantasy Predicted, Intern
"Doomed" product slashdot formula. (Score:2)
a.-Picks up "hyped" product and dislikes it after playing it for 3 seconds. and since He is not sept off his feet and has a HUGE opinion about himself as a gamer this spells doom for any item. (regardless is a world wide top seller)
b.-Notices someone didnt bought it in the first attempt, considering geeks should be killing each other, over X item this spells "D O O M" for the product.
c.-Teen relative drops a acid/derrogatory remark on the product. Teen angst: the undeniable sign of do
Oh, sure, sure (Score:2)
Let's not forget FFXI of course which has its 3rd expansion pack under development, record subscription rate, and high popularity.
Not to mention promise of Final Fantasy on every major next-generation platform and handheld.
So d
FF Fanboys (Score:2)
Square(and SE) have consistantly tried something new. 8 was not 7, 9 was an old school title, X was defining, and X-2 was fanservice. Beelieve it or not, I know a number of people who LOVE X-2 (and hate every other game made by SE.)
You make a lot of good points. (Score:2)
I really do appreciate and enjoy Square's history of making each FF game different from the game before, but I don't play online games (I have a family) and I can't buy fanservice games (I have a wife
(Actually, the thing I don't think I could stand is my son making comments while I'm trying to find just the right outfit to wear into battle...)
Anyway, FF isn't a series, like LOTR or Star Wars, it's a brand, like
Re:You make a lot of good points. (Score:2)
They were wrong.
Re:You make a lot of good points. (Score:2)
Quoted for truth.
Finally! (ha-ha!) (Score:2)
But... (Score:2)
But... with Final Fantasy gone, what game series will continue to define "dead horse" oh so well??
FFXII (Score:2)
And then the info on FFXII started coming out. Set in the same world as FFTA it has moogles, airship
Re:FFXII (Score:2)
Not in today's market. (Score:2)
And if there's money, they'll make it. An ironic twist of fate I think consid
FF11 is the beginning (Score:2)
X-2 is a fun game (Score:2)
It addresses a few shortcomings in FFX
Of spinoffs and game quality. (Score:3, Informative)
Mario, who's often brought up, has been appearing in sports games for longer than some people on this site have been alive---yet no one gripes about NES Open, even when they bring up (GC or GBA) Mario Golf. Even beyond that, things like Dr. Mario or the truly wretched edutainment titles for the SNES featuring him are ignored by people hoping to improve their retro street cred at the expense of reality.
For that matter, -three seperate- unrelated properties have appeared under the Final Fantasy name in various places; the first SaGa series -and- Seiken Densetsu were marketed as such in the US, while the first SD also was marketed as "FF Side Story" in Japan; and then there's FF: Mystic Quest. All of these back in the idolized 8- and 16-bit eras.
Hell, Dragon Quest 8, in its Japanese release last year, managed to sell about 1 copy for every 30 Japanese citizens---this from a series with only one other entry since the SNES, but a huge pile of spinoffs ranging from top-down action games to monster-trading Pokemon clones to graphical takeoffs on Nethack during that period.
As for FF11, in particular...
Even ignoring the fact that the average pretender "oldschool" gamer's complaint is "WTF, why's it so hard, take so long to play, need play sessions so long, and have a loose mission structure? I want the old FFs back, where there was actually a challenge, a good amout of playtime, long dungeons without savepoints all over ruining the challenge, and it wasn't so cinematic!", the fact remains that over the past year, S-E's grossed about $90 million directly from it---that's more money than changes hands directly to retail stores, never mind their lower wholesale price, of a 1.5 million seller. Love it or hate it, you can't complain that it's harming the odds of putting more money into more FF titles.
FFXIII (Score:2)
I'm not holding my breath.
In one word... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Whoa Whoa Whoa.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Since 2002 he has been designing websites for various clients, often utilizing animated interfaces in Flash and Shockwave or creating branded 3D-animated logos. He is also currently working on several small indepenent animation projects.
Not exactly an expert or valued opinion in my book. Scary that one independent animators opinion on a few games he didn't like would spark everyone so much. Got a bad feeling this is the future o
FFVII remade for PS3 (Score:2)
Please don't mod me down.... (Score:2)
So at the risk of being flamebait, I ask: What is the gist of FF that is so compelling that the games are gr
Spaghetti Sauce Symdrome and FF (Score:2, Insightful)
Many talk about various restaurants they've been to as having the second best. But the best is always the sauce their Mom made. Why?
Because it was the first they encountered, and it defined what spaghetti sauce was for them. All others fell short in one way or another.
FF fans are like that. "FFn is the best FF. After that, they series fell apart. FFn+1 and FFn+2 were cr
Re:Spaghetti Sauce Symdrome and FF (Score:2)
Err... sorry to burst your bubble. I've been playing the game since the first one, way back when (and, just to be clear, it was much inferior to, say Dragon Warrior III as far as NES RPGs go...). I played, and enjoyed, Final Fantasy VI, but it has easily been surpassed by several subsequent installm
Over my dead body! (Score:2)
At the moment they're milking the FF7 cash cow. That's not necessarily a good thing in itself, but it proves that FF is definitely still popular and profitable, and they're not going to drop it any time soon. Based on FF7 we now have Advent Children, Before Crisis, Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus in development... that's 1 movie and 3 games right there. Then of course you have FF12 coming, and initial indications show that it might'
Basically what this guy is saying... (Score:2)
Really, though, he might be right that FF's glory days are over. But not because the recent games are bad (which is debatable; even he admits that he dislikes FFX-2 despite its gameplay).
We have the first sequel in a series of games that was never supposed to have sequels. We have a bunch of compilation discs whe
Re:Why VIII-X sucked (Score:2)
And Cloud and Aerith weren't?
Let's kill the blatent FF7/Clud fanboyism. If you want real, macho heroes, look no further than Locke and Edgar. Cloud just doesn't cut it. Even his name is sissy.
Re:Why VIII-X sucked (Score:2)
Y'mean Locke, the guy who spends the majority of the game sulking over his comatose girlfriend? Edgar gets some nice moments, but even he whines and sulks regarding Sabin at times. Honestly, the only "real, macho heroes" in that game are Mog and Umaro, and the latter doesn't talk.
Re:Final Fantasy will still be around in name only (Score:2)
Re:competition (Score:2)
Not as many as there use to be, though.
Remember, Super Mario Bros 3 was once the highest selling video game ever. Now the Mario series is... well, Mario Baseball. Which happens to be what's happening to Final Fantasy. Forget your Final Fantasy 6's and your Super Mario World's... now all we have are the Final Fantasy X-2's and Mario Dance-Dance Revolutions's.
Seems these days the only bastion of hope with video
Re:competition (Score:2)
Re:will never happen (Score:2)
I've been a rabid Final Fantasy player for only slightly less time than I've been a rabid Dragon Warrior player (yes, I started with the first installment of both). Squaresoft had its golden age with the PSX. While FF7 and 8 left much to be desired, the other squaresoft games of that period were incredible. FFT, Ergheiz, Front Mission 3, etc... while Enix just seemed to vanish for awhile until DW7 came out.
After the merger, I greedily sn
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)