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PC Games (Games) Microsoft

Microsoft: We've Been Killing PC Gaming 113

Posted by Zonk from the nice-of-them-to-notice dept.
MCV has an article up discussing a new intitiative that Microsoft will be launching soon to re-establish the Windows PC as a gaming platform, ahead of the launch of Vista. From the article: "Microsoft has pledged to 'put the game back into Windows', admitting that its lack of investment in PC has been 'killing' the platform. The firm has outlined to MCV details of an 18-month drive to establish Games For Windows as a platform with the credibility of PlayStation and Xbox, ahead of the launch of the Vista operating system."
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Microsoft: We've Been Killing PC Gaming More

Microsoft: We've Been Killing PC Gaming

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  • No surprised there (Score:3, Funny)

    by Stargoat ( 658863 ) <stargoat@gmail.com> on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:23PM (#13521293) Journal
    Seeing as how Vista appears to be to XP what ME was to 98, I am not surprised that Microsoft is trying to hype Vista more.
  • Sort of.

    Now we can expand this further by establishing easy to follow labels to show games for Windows, MAC, and even Linux.

    While the sales may have been down 10% based on their numbers I do not believe it is because lack of effort. I think the numbers would be lower still if some of the more complex titles on PCs actually make it to game boxes. With the game boxes getting more powerful and support things other than games like email and movies it won't be long before some PC-only type game play moves too.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Sign your company is way to big #67 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:28PM (#13521343) Homepage Journal
    When you find that a success in one sector of your business hurts another sector of your business.....
    • Yeah, the first thing that popped into my head when I read the article summary: Microsoft is a victim of its own success.

      They wanted to play in the game-console arena, so they've been fighting it out with Sony, trying to make the console that everyone wants to play. They've done a good enough job that no one wants to play games on their PCs anymore.

      I think the only reason they really even care is that "playing games" was where a lot of people go stuck with Windows. How often have you heard someone say,

  • Its lack of investment in PC has been killing it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dtfinch ( 661405 ) * on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:30PM (#13521370) Journal
    I suspect Microsoft's war on OpenGL might have contributed a bit as well.

  • What? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:30PM (#13521371)
    Is this plan B, in case the XBox 360 fizzles out?

    Ok, just so this doesn't sound like a total troll, isn't DirectX set to be replaced by the "Windows Graphic Foundation" [theinquirer.net] when Vista ships? How will this make the job easier for developers, seeing as they've been riding the DirectX bandwagon since Windows 98 (or before - I'm not sure when it started).

    Or are the two really that similar that they won't be causing problems for game developers and hardware vendors?

  • Ah no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:34PM (#13521395) Homepage Journal
    The XBoX has been killing PC gaming. People are playing Halo instead of Counter-Strike. I remember when some people only had one argument against switching to Linux, and that was "there are no games". Well, thanks to MS that's no longer an issue. Personally I dual-boot, but my XP partition is very small and only contains Steam. It doesn't get very much use either, and probably wont anytime soon thanks to Advance Wars: DS.

    Let's see if MS actually makes some quality PC games or just brings some XBoX 360 games over that will only run on Vista. I mean, for a gamer there is really no reason to upgrade to Vista. So MS has to go out and make one.

    • Re:Ah no (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Goyuix ( 698012 )
      You make some good points, but more importantly than them playing Halo instead of Counter-Strike, it is Halo on the XBox instead of on a PC....

      The bought out bungie, forced a first party release to their console, and only later offered a crippled pile for the PC. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

      They did similar thing with the Midtown Madness and Crimson Skies franchises, and probably others as well. If they don't want PC gaming to die off, well duh, quit cancelling games that were targetted for it!
    • Well, I have to agree with Microsoft. Thanks to the state of XBox and PC gaming, I've been playing all my old Dreamcast games. You know, the ones that got re-ported to XBox and PS2.
    • Somehow I really doubt that CS players are leaving their PC's to play Halo on a console.

      There are probably more people playing CS right now than there are XBox live subscribers.

  • Quote (Score:5, Funny)

    by RealityMogul ( 663835 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:39PM (#13521434)
    "put the game back into Windows"

    I keep my machine running well, so I don't get to play any of their classic games on my home PC anymore. Although whenever I'm visiting relatives I hop on their pc and play that built-in game of Spyware vs. Spyware.

  • Wishing for "Games for Linux" (Score:4, Interesting)

    by craters ( 720373 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:39PM (#13521436)
    Notwithstanding the efforts by various developers to have linux ports of their games, or the efforts of those trying to get Windows games to work on linux -- I simply wish developers would package both types of binaries on their game CDs. Granted there would be an awful lot of extra work to get two versions of games out there, but once big-time games get to linux, it will be all but over for the Windows Desktop.

    It would be good for the developers anyway because they won't be paying out the nose to MS in dev tools, and they won't have to deal with Windows APIs that always get in the way.

    Ok I know it's a wish for the impossible and maybe it doesn't make a lot of business sense for the devs. However, MS has proven that by ignoring the Windows game devs the past few years that they can't be trusted to help the PC gaming cause anyway. Especially not with a glorified marketing campaign like this.

    PC gaming isn't dead yet, Jim, but it needs resusitated, and linux is the perfect platform to do that.

    • Re:Wishing for "Games for Linux" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by QuantumRiff ( 120817 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:52PM (#13521535)
      Remember the good old days of building special dos boot floppies for your games to make them run better/faster? Wouldn't it be damn sweet to have a game come on a DVD with knoppix on it? Install it into windows or linux and run it, or boot from the DVD to really make it fly!?

      • Re:Wishing for "Games for Linux" (Score:5, Insightful)

        by DrMorris ( 156226 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @04:11PM (#13521694)
        Those days weren't good. I had no special floppies but about 6-8 boot configurations with different memory managers, each with it's own settings. I don't think that DOS gaming was comfortable. But I don't think gaming on anything other than a device (I'm speaking of the console of your choice) built for gaming is comfortable to deal with (if you _only_ want to play games).

        • But I don't think gaming on anything other than a device (I'm speaking of the console of your choice) built for gaming is comfortable to deal with (if you _only_ want to play games).

          So what device built specifically for games is available to homebrew developers?

        • Those were only necessary because DOS was so limited in terms of memory. Had it used a 32bit address space from the start (wishful thinking and impossible on the hardware of that time, I know), there would have been no 640kByte limit and no necessity for EMS and XMS.

      • Re:Wishing for "Games for Linux" (Score:4, Insightful)

        by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Friday September 09, 2005 @07:27PM (#13523263) Homepage Journal

        Remember the good old days of building special dos boot floppies for your games to make them run better/faster?

        Back then, every video card implemented the same VGA register set.

        Wouldn't it be damn sweet to have a game come on a DVD with knoppix on it?

        Today, different machines use different hardware registers for accelerated 3D graphics. You'll need to have drivers for every 3D card in existence because they're all different. If games came on a DVD, and you tried to play them on your new computer with a new video card model that your old game does not support, then you'd get slow-ass software rendering.

        • If games came on a DVD, and you tried to play them on your new computer with a new video card model that your old game does not support, then you'd get slow-ass software rendering.

          True. And if developers would actually implement a good system for preventing piracy (something like Steam, maybe), we could allow users to burn a new version with the new drivers. Or install the game to the hard disk, in its own partition or a DVD image. Or just leave a couple of Linux drivers lying around in convenient places

      • Wouldn't it be damn sweet to have a game come on a DVD with knoppix on it? Install it into windows or linux and run it, or boot from the DVD to really make it fly!?

        Or better yet, invent some kind of dedicated system where you insert the game DVD, boot it, and play your game without worrying about OS overhead. That would be sweet!

        Oh wait, that's what a game console does. Never mind.

    • I don't think it's the perfect platform, but several projects have shown that it is very well possible to port games to GNU/Linux (or even better: they started out the project with portable code). The id software games are maybe the best example how to "do it right". I don't think they make any profit of it, but the fact that they have Linux ports of their games earns them a lot of respect I think.

      Anyway, what's the state of games on GNU/Linux (native ports, not WINE stuff (no, I'm not ignorant and I don'
    • Lack of games for Linux is the only reason I'm still using Windows (2000, btw. I refuse to get XP).
    • Linux, in its current state, is absolutely _not_ the place for gaming. Mainly this is because of hardware support - it's not there yet. We can put some blame on vendors, but the fact of the matter is far too many people currently have A/V issues when attempting to run Linux. I've been one of them (I still curse emu10k1, ALSA, and the 2.6 kernel). The standard response of "ask forum members or on IRC" isn't going to cut it - if you're looking for anything even slightly off the beaten path you're out of l
      • Linux, in its current state, is absolutely _not_ the place for gaming. Mainly this is because of hardware support - it's not there yet.

        It would seem a bit of a Catch-22, wouldn't it?

        If we had better hardware support, we'd get better game support, because there would be a bigger market for high-end Linux games.

        If we had better game support, we'd get better hardware support, because there would be a bigger market for Linux drivers.

        Fortunately, there are other ways to get better game support. We're already see

    • I simply wish developers would package both types of binaries on their game CDs

      It seems there is no money in the Linux gaming. Porting to Linux taking some non-trivial effort (most of game using DierctX now, so it is porting form DirectX to OPenGL and SDL/OpenAL for audio) and supporting game for Linux would be more costly then for Windows - Linux 3d drivers usually less stable then DirectX drivers. From the other hand Linux user are not inclined pay for the games - couple of Linux game porting compan

  • M$ V.S. M$ (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sounds to me like M$ is setting itself up to be a direct competitor of itself.

    Windows VS Xbox360.

    A strange but inevitable scenario.

  • Microsoft would *love* to kill PC gaming (Score:4, Insightful)

    by popo ( 107611 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:56PM (#13521565) Homepage

    The upside potential to be gained from Xbox far outweighs the upside potential from increased PC gaming.

    This is a half-baked effort to make nice with the only segment of the hardware business that has legs. (Gamer's always demand the latest and greatest).

    • Re:Microsoft would *love* to kill PC gaming (Score:4, Interesting)

      by KDR_11k ( 778916 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @04:19PM (#13521741)
      Not really, no games for Windows would mean a reason less to use Windows over Linux. Productivity apps are a lot easier for opensource to create than games. That way you'd have the choice between the most limited OS out there (seriously, what other OS comes with that few apps out of the box? Not a single programming language, no serious text processor and no other office apps at all?) or any of the alternatives without there being large differences in software support.

    • For many reasons (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dereference ( 875531 )
      The upside potential to be gained from Xbox far outweighs the upside potential from increased PC gaming.

      I strongly agree, and I'll go even further. I'd suggest that he Xbox represents the way Microsoft can slowly but surely enter the hardware market.

      As game consoles have become more powerful, they have become a more important target, perhaps even than the PC. Microsoft seems to be betting that if they control the software and the hardware, they'll not have any pesky problems of getting things like DRM

      • I strongly agree, and I'll go even further. I'd suggest that he Xbox represents the way Microsoft can slowly but surely enter the hardware market.

        Right, Microsoft is very dependent on hardware vendors because the average home user doesn't actually directly buy Microsoft software. Go to your local mass market discount store and most of the software on the shelf is games. The Xbox gave MIcrosoft an in, in the game market.

        Suddenly you'll find the next generation game machines with a keyboard, mouse, hard dr

  • Oh god! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Conspiracy_Of_Doves ( 236787 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @03:58PM (#13521589)
    Does this mean that I actually have to root for Microsoft now?

    *sitting down in the shower, screaming in anguish*

    The dirt! It won't come off!
  • "And the publishing community is also throwing its weight behind the push, with the major publishers even redesigning their PC boxes to flag up Games for Windows in a similar way to console format branding. "

    I imagine something along the lines of:

    MS: I understand you want to have the words "Microsoft Windows" on your packaging.

    Publisher: Well, yes, we've got to tell our market what platform the game runs on.

    MS: Use "Games for Windows" or don't use "Windows" on your packaging at all. Have you met o
    • It's completely pointless, too. After all, computer games already come with a sign in the top left corner saying "PC" or "MAC" and "CD" or "DVD". That sign is so uniform it's almost like the console logos on the games. When I look at my games lined up, the PC\nCD logo is exactly where the PS logo is on the PS2 games and the G^3 logo is on the Gamecube games.

      Of course, it says "PC" not "Windows" but really, everybody knows what it means.
      • "Of course, it says "PC" not "Windows" but really, everybody knows what it means. "

        Ands that's a problem for Microsoft. It's a detachment from brand awareness that they would prefer not to happen. They want game players to remember that they're using Windows every time they take the CD out of the box.

        On the plus side, maybe this means games developed for Linux (my glass is half-full, by the way) will say "Games for Linux" and "PC" on them.

        After all, 'PC' can include Linux installad machines...

  • Duh (Score:2)

    by inkless1 ( 1269 )
    Who would have thought burning billions of dollars into a competing market might *gasp* negatively effect the PC?

  • Flight Sim 2006 will be released just in time for xmas.
  • I see this clearly now, MS sees that any discussion involving switching over to linux gets the overwhelming response: "I need to boot Windows to run MY Games." If PC games keep sliding off the shelf we won't need them anymore.

    "We're putting the 'game' back in Windows," explained group manager Chris Donohue.

    Start with Halo 2 Jackasses. The loss of the first one for 3 yrs was a bitch. The second feels like its never coming.

    "We're over the hump with Xbox 360 so now ready to build Windows as a platform.

  • Saving Windows (Score:3, Interesting)

    by blueZhift ( 652272 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @04:48PM (#13522034) Homepage Journal
    This initiative is really about saving Windows. People aren't going to buy a new home PC in order to run the latest version of Microsoft Office, but they might if there are games they want and cannot mentally justify buying a games console, afterall a PC can do more than just play games, right? So when Jane buys that PC at Best Buy and a bunch of games (and Quicken of course), Microsoft gets its cut of the action via the copy of Windows that is preinstalled on the new PC.

    Granted, PC sales these days don't compare to console sales, but MS needs to keep Windows in play. And if they do a good job with their XNA development platform, they can keep games coming from the PC to the Xbox 360. In a sense, Microsoft really needs to keep the PC out there as a viable game platform to farm new talent and properties. Games are also a strong hedge for them against defections to Macintosh or Linux for most PC users.

  • They certainly aren't helping w/ DirectX roadmap. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nobodyman ( 90587 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @05:21PM (#13522269) Homepage


    It's hard to reconcile Microsofts statements about "saving" PC gaming with their statements about the future of DirectX.

    Initially, Microsoft said that DirectX 9.1 would be the last major version of DirectX, and that it would be replaced by Windows Graphics Foundation (essentially putting app and game graphics development under the same umbrella).

    But then they've recently announced that the WGF concept is dead, and there will be, in fact, DirectX 10.

    Incredibly, they've further announced that DirectX 10 will not be backwards [theinquirer.net] compatible with directx 7, 8, or even directx 9.1 !!! Apparently the legacy directx API will run in a software compatibility layer and/or emulation, which means that Directx 9.1 games will run slower after you install DirectX 10.

    Now, the article is from the inquirer so it could be bogus, but I've read this other places as well. I'm hoping someone here can show that it *is* bogus and/or misquoted, because if it's true I fail to see how this is going to do anything but hasten the death of PC gaming regardless of what Microsoft's marketing department does.
    • I was wondering when someone would point out the very large problem too...

      Seems MS want the 'games for windows' to mean 'Games for Vista' so buy a new computer sucker...

      Screw MS, and if the game develepors are that stupid to go along with it, screw them too..

    • But then they've recently announced that the WGF concept is dead, and there will be, in fact, DirectX 10.

      Same concept, different name. There is probably some brand value left in the DirectX mark that Microsoft wants to keep.

      Apparently the legacy directx API will run in a software compatibility layer and/or emulation, which means that Directx 9.1 games will run slower after you install DirectX 10.

      Microsoft had to break away from the Win16 API sometime or other, and it did so with WOW, a library of

    • Cedega does this -- DirectX 9.1 implemented in terms of OpenGL. I guess this means that on Linux, Doom 3 will run faster than Half-Life 2, and on Windows, it'll be the other way around? (OpenGL implemented in terms of DirectX)

      Anyway, it'll definitely be cool when I can say that all my old Windows DirectX games run at least as fast under Cedega as on Windows.

  • Have to save.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 787style ( 816008 ) on Friday September 09, 2005 @05:35PM (#13522391)
    the gaming industry first. Microsoft hasn't being killing PC gaming, the industry has. Lack of innovation, a sequel based mentality of game development, and the cross-platform release requirement imposed on most titles has screwed the industry. Remember when a group of ten guys could spend a year making a game that would keep you up for weeks, like X-Com? Or an independent developer could release a game like Intelligent Qube and still turn a profit? Now you have 60-100 people trying to make a pretty game that just fun enough for the first three levels, because that's all most of the market will play.
  • Maybe an emulator for the Xbox/Xbox 360, allowing PC users to play Xbox games on their PC?
  • Is it just me or are there like 5 of these stories every week? Does every self-important blogger feels like he's entitled to editorialize on the subject of how gaming is dying, or dead, or about to boom, or experience a renaissance, or experiencing the end of a renaissance? Seriously people, no one wants to read this for the 80th time.
  • ...they're just starting to feel the pinch of transgaming [transgaming.com], wine [winehq.com], Linux [wikipedia.org] and a world that realizes we don't need them to have game.
  • Solitaire II and Minesweeper: The Revenge!!!

    Exclusively for MS Vista!
  • In soviet russia, games play windows!
  • I think what they mean is "We're going to try to turn the PC into the DRM-infested device the XBOX is." I've been gaming on my PC quite well for years, and I dont need Microsoft's blessing to acomplish it.
  • To me this seems to imply that Vista may come with some API stuff that make it similar in programability to the XBox360. This is kind of exciting to me, personally, as the bridge between developing for PC games and console games needs to close the gap for many reasons. the most important one being independant developers.

    Perhaps MS will now be known as the console manufacturer that has a nice programming interface, rather than Nintendo... Time will tell
  • ...Microsoft continued to ignore Windows as a gaming platform. That's been working great so far.

    I dread to think what would happen if they start paying attention to it.

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