Xbox 360 Not Hi-Def Enough? 108
News for nerds writes "One of the features touted for Xbox 360 is its requirement for games to be 720p and 1080i HDTV resolutions, dubbed The HD Era by Microsoft. Today it's revealed and discussed in the official forum of Bizarre Creations, the Project Gotham Racing 3 developer, that in the final review build for PGR3 the in-game races are actually rendered in 1024x600 to get constant 30fps/2xAA. The game is stretched to 720p (1280x720) in the upscaler, which is faking HD at best." As always with late-night forum mutterings, imbibe with a grain of salt.
Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:4, Informative)
If you look more carefully at the chunky wires, you can clearly see that the xbox 360 ones are higher resolution. It looks about consistant with what I'd expect from half again the resolution.
There is no doubt in my mind that Halo 2 is shown at 720p, the problem is that Bungie admitted they used an imperfect analog capture card to take the 360 screenshots, while they had a digital feed of the original xbox. The analog capture card obviously degraded the quality a bit, making the already slim advantage all the more slim.
I think another contributing factor to the wires is that they aren't being antialiased in the 360 screenshot. Obviously they're not polygonal. Makes sense, considering how many polygons they'd use up, and the original xbox's limited capacities. It is possible that all the wires are really a semitransparent texture, or perhaps they're done similar to how cables are done in HL2.
Re:Oooer (Score:1, Insightful)
Sit and play Battlefield2 or Counterstrike or Quake at a computer. Now sit at a console with one of those fugly hand controller stick things and play Halo. Notice the difference? That difference is the sucking in control.
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Keep in mind here I don't even own a console, so I obviously don't get much practice. Still, it doesn't take me long after sitting down with one to get used to it. Do I suck compared to a PC? Yes. Can I get along? Sure.
I think the Revolution might make things significantly better. Can't wait to try it for an FPS.
Re:Oooer (Score:2, Troll)
Go and try to play some racing game with keyboard/mouse. It sucks and it doesn't hold a candle to playing with a control pad.
The problem with PC players is that there is a group of them that want EVERY GAME to be a FPS. And the pc gaming market shows it, as most of it is FPS.
Such an unimaginative crowd, the FPS fans...
Re:Oooer (Score:1)
Yes, it's a known fact that there is no way to attach a PS2/Xbox controller to a PC with a $12 adapter from Radio Shack. Especially not this one [radioshack.com].
Which multiplayer games? (Score:1)
<sarcasm>Yes, it's a known fact that there is no way to attach a PS2/Xbox controller to a PC with a $12 adapter from Radio Shack.</sarcasm>
But what current commercial PC games take advantage of four such adapters plugged into my PC's USB hub? I want shared-screen multiplayer gaming a la Bomberman, Smash Bros, etc. Which titles should I choose?
Re:Which multiplayer games? (Score:1)
Hey look, that has nothing to do with the original post either!
I don't care if you can't satisfy yourself with PC gaming. I was merely responding to your erroneous claim.
Re:Which multiplayer games? (Score:1)
Hey look, that has nothing to do with the original post either! I don't care if you can't satisfy yourself with PC gaming. I was merely responding to your erroneous claim.
The joypad was being compared to the keyboard and mouse. The contention here is that connecting four USB joypads (whether PC native or through an adapter) to a PC is as useful (or as useless) as connecting a USB keyboard and mouse to a PS2's USB ports because few top-class commercial games are designed to read and respond to them.
Re:Which multiplayer games? (Score:1)
Actually the contention was that racing games sucked on the PC because you had to use the keyboard and mouse. He said:
Go and try to play some racing game with keyboard/mouse. It sucks and it doesn't hold a candle to playing with a contro
Re:Which multiplayer games? (Score:1)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
No?
Then shut up.
Re:Oooer (Score:1)
Sadly, it doesn't include an adapter to shake the sand out of your vagina, either.
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:1, Informative)
852x480: 408,960
1280x720: 921,600
That's about a 125% increase in the number of pixels.
Re:Oooer (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:1)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
The original XBOX had, if I recall correctly, a GPU that was somewhere between a GeForce 3 and a GeForce 4. The 360's graphics processor is MANY times faster, so 125% more pixels onscreen isn't really relevant. The problems only show up on the CPU side, since it is the CPU that has to do full blown emulation of a Pentium 3, and at the same time has to remap API
Re:Oooer (Score:3, Informative)
I could be wrong, it is late.
Re:Oooer (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
My point is that interlacing nor de-interlacing enters into this discussion at no point. The process of stretching a widescreen image onto a full frame picture and then str
Re:Oooer (Score:1, Redundant)
50% more along each axis makes the rendering ~twice as much power intensive.
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
HAHAHA.
It would be interesting to see what framegrabber Bungie used. I'm not really sure how you go about storing 720p content.
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
It's actually just via an analog capture card of some kind. Because the antialiasing and even apparently the resolution upgrade are done in the videochip's integrated 10 MB of RAM, it seems to be really hard (impossible?) to do a normal frame capture on a dev system. The real game should look significantly better than these screens, obviously. This incidentally is also part of the reason a
Re:Oooer (Score:1)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
When comparing two resolutions visually, the total number of pixels doesn't matter; tha
Re:Oooer (Score:1)
720p is 1280x720 or 921600 pixels per frame.
480p is 720x480 or 345600 pixels per frame.
In other news, the area of a square 2x2 is not twice that of a square 1x1. (ducks)
Re:Oooer (Score:2)
Lazy (Score:1, Redundant)
^ his previous post:
But they're not simply upscaling, the game is actually rendered at 720p, so it will have sharp edges, and sharp-to-semifuzzy-textures. It will look just as sharp as a PC playing at 1280x720. It looks a bit odd, though. Take this screenshot [bungie.net] as an example - there are some really lumpy pixels on the cables and archway to the left of the picture. Actually, I've just spent the last ten minutes making some rubbishy animated GIFs comparing differences between s
What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh wait. That's exactly what is happening.
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
What if you considered that it might just have something to do with the quality of the programming?
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:4, Insightful)
So you're saying Bizarre are bad coders? Have you ever actually played one of their games? Specifically any of the games in this series, going back to the original Metropolis Street Racer on Dreamcast.
Bizarre have always gotten the most out of the hardware they're working on, even if it's early in the console's lifespan. There are, even today, few racing games on the Xbox that look as good as the first PGR, and that was a first-wave title.
Let's assume you're right, and that Bizarre is not getting much out of the Xbox 360. That would suggest, at best, that the system is incredibly difficult to program for. If some of the best and most experienced racing game coders in the world cannot manage true HD on the system, what hope does anyone else have?
I think it's more likely that the 360 is just underpowered. That's the price you pay being first to market. The max res the 360 even supports is 1080i, and you don't even hear MS talking much about games that'll utilize that - all the talk I've heard has been about 720p, and now we're hearing that even one of those games, from a great developer, won't even really make that res. Something ain't kosher here.
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
I'll de-hyperbolize that paragraph for you. Fair warning, it'll no longer be as sensationalist when I'm done.
Let's assume you're right, and that Bizarre is not getting all the performance Xbox 360 o
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
It may indeed be difficult to program for. The whole triple-core PPC thing is sorta 'sexy' console design over practical console design. After all, we know that Apple is jumping ship, and from Carmack's responses we know that there is a real performance gap between PPC and x86. Hell, screw that line of thought. Are you seriously telling me that the PPC is an ideal gaming platform, when I'm sitting in front of a G4 Powerbook right now?
Besides, can you even imagine writing game code that saturates 3 process
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:3, Interesting)
What, you mean the same Metropolis Street Racer that had to be recalled in the UK because the developer left a bug in there that meant that you lost half your accumulated Kudos points every time you completed a certain type of race - making game completion impossible? The same Metropolis Street Racer that
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
You're right. They aren't bad coders. Just sloppy. And yet I still love 'em.
The word
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
Not your presumably fictional Bioware employee again... please, name several major 3rd party studios that are clearly ignoring the 360. Public statements only (or similar), please.
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
Time will bear my statements out.
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
All Xbox360 games support 720p and 1080i (I can find you links that confirm this, but I feel lazy so hopefully you can just trust me). Presumably MS is focusing on talking about 720p because it generally looks better. The issue with PGR3 is
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1, Insightful)
With a fast-paced game I'd take progressive scan over interlacing. 1080i is effectively 30 Hz, which is just-about noticably not smooth when you're doing interactive stuff with it (motion blurred video looks f
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you're touting how awesome your hardware and developer kits are, why would you allow your developers (in-house or contracted) to half-ass it?
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
First Generation games are always less than perfect on new consoles. The developers just made a tradeoff for more eyecandy and slighty less resolution. Really no big deal since even five y
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
Hell, I've had mine for almost six years and I didn't pay that much for it. And it's even 60". So a standard sized screen today has to be pretty affordable...
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
I can pick up a 32" standard flatscreen TV here in the UK for £200 - £300. The same size TV with HDTV support would set me back £1,000 - at LEAST. That was an offer I just saw online, and it expires tomorrow. Regular price £1,100.
So, what's affordable?
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:1)
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2)
Re:What if this game was on a PC? (Score:2, Insightful)
Considering that most people will not be playing this game on a true hdtv I think they made the right compromise. They retain all the effects at a good frame rate at a higher quality than most TVs that will be used to play the game. Most people have HD ready TVs or standard TVs. Not many have true HDTVs and those that do have 720p TV
How about this grain? (Score:2, Insightful)
As always with Slashdot posts about Microsoft, imbibe with a grain of "Could /. be more predictable?"
Is it just me or is the constant Microsoft criticism (valid or not) just, well... boring?
Re:How about this grain? (Score:1)
From the link... (Score:5, Funny)
So that's who this is being marketed to? People who are so stupid and ignorant and uneducated that you have to explain to them what the "360" refers to? What, did we just fall out of the sky? (Meteorological students will recognize that as the big blue thing above our head when we're outside).
Going around in circles? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Going around in circles? (Score:2)
Re:From the link... (Score:1, Funny)
Imagine how hazy things would be if they had called it Xbox 420.
Pun intenddd. *cough* *cough*
Re:From the link... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:From the link... (Score:1)
Re:From the link... (Score:2)
Those are the people who are also stupid enough to get caught by stupid marketing bullshit like that - whenever they hear about XB360, they feel smart, so they develop a slight positive association with the console. Believe it or not, ther
Re:From the link... (Score:2)
I don't think that one needs to be stupid or ignorant to get the 360 reference. I'm sure that plenty of people got sick of caring about all of the numbers attached to computers and related projects a long time ago, and simply don't think about them at all.
Re:From the link... (Score:1)
What, did we just fall out of the sky?
No. In Soviet Disneyland, sky falls on YOU! [skyisfalling.org]
Re:From the link... (Score:1)
Xbox 10_Pi
Xbox 6400
Xbox 6.28318531
Xbox 4 * arcsin(1)
Xbox (4/3 * Pi * r^3) d/dr / 2 * r^2
In other news, marketroid goes with the flow
games need to look their best at all res's (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:games need to look their best at all res's (Score:2)
In the electronics/technology game 6 years is
Re:games need to look their best at all res's (Score:2)
Re:games need to look their best at all res's (Score:1)
Compatability list (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Compatability list (Score:4, Informative)
More info here [xbox.com].
Re:Compatability list (Score:1)
Re:Compatability list (Score:1)
What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:3, Informative)
As if the graphics weren't crappy enough, the game didn't look like any fun either. Hellooooooooo...
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:1)
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/index/xbox-360/ [teamxbox.com] XBox 360 Screenshots
http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/index/xbox-360/ [teamxbox.com] XBox 360 Movies
http://www.extremegamer.ca/xbox/features/X05.php [extremegamer.ca]
XBox 360 Gameplay Impressions
http: [360hacker.net]
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
For the record, I will freely admit
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Is there some good reason you are comparing (ingame) screenshots from two entirely different games? I suppose if you have a poor vision it makes sense why you would think Twilight Princess looks like a launch X360 game such as PGR3, Kameo, NBA2k6, Call of Duty 2, etc.
Of course you did trot out the absurd "every good Xbox game is available in a better form on the PC" troll (Ninja Gaiden, DOA3, PGR2, Forza, Halo 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Phantom Dust, Amped 2, Otogi series, Crimson Sk
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Zelda 2 had the Zelda name on it.
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2, Redundant)
Project Gotham Racing 3
NBA2k6
Gears of War
Call of Duty 2
I'm getting sick of an obvious troll being modded up by MS bashing. But i'm sure it's pure coincidence you picked the one that was a rush job port from the XBox 1 instead of a native game, right?
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Project Gotham Racing 3
NBA2k6
Gears of War
Call of Duty 2
I'm getting sick of an obvious troll being modded up by MS bashing. But i'm sure it's pure coincidence you picked the one that was a rush job port from the XBox 1 instead of a native game, right?
Project Gotham Racing 3
NBA2k6
Gears of War
Call of Duty 2
out of those, only 1 may move the console, and only if it turns out to be exactly what it promises. Basically their all sequel filelr that some peo
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
PGR1 was the second best-selling launch title for the Xbox1. It was the second game to hit one million units, and its sequel also did tremendously good business. I think it's a pretty safe bet that PGR3 will sell consoles, especially with how amazing the graphics are. That kind of thing is very important for a system seller a
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Assuming you aren't lying (Bioware has already announced they are doing at least two exclusive X360 titles) your friend is apparently a bit of an idiot. He presumably isn't an actual developer at Bioware (janitor, maybe), but it probably should be pointed out that Bioware isn't really known for taking advantage of fancy hardware anyway. Their games have always sold on the strength of their gameplay and stories, never their usually average graphics. If you are seriously being honest please don't trust your f
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:1)
Mind you, Xbox was launched in late 2001, Xbox 2 in late 2005, so there's a 4 year gap, which should equate to about 6 times more power.
Re:What's the point if the graphics suck? (Score:2)
It's over all power isn't something that is common knowledge. it's numbers stat that it has 3 times the clock cycles as it's predisessor (3.2 GHZ vs 733 MHZ) and has 3 cores. The in
Performance Troubles (Score:1, Insightful)
Earlier today I was mentioning how it was understandable that Nintendo would avoid High Definition support because of the potential Performance problems; many people (some of which would probably be XBox 360/PS3 fans) claimed that it was a weak excuse because those systems had the power necessary to render anything regardless of the resolution.
By looking at the following benchmarks you can see how resolution effects performance:
FEAR:
,00.asp [extremetech.com]
1280x960 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1883897
1600x
Load Times, anyone? (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, if the stupid game will barely fit on a DVD... or even worse, require Blu-Ray... where is all the talk about super-high speed memory busses and uber-fast drives with ginormous buffers?
This is engineering, folks, and there's always a tradeoff in engineering. All that HD ain't free. And most people won't even care if it's 480p or 720i.
Re:Load Times, anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Load Times, anyone? (Score:2)
That is one seriously mixed metaphor.
Fujitsu P1000 series (Score:2)
My question is, how can I get that much data onto my laptop to try it out. I dont think there'll be anything which fits in my PCMCIA slot which can framegrab a 720p stream, encode & feed my system a mpeg. Do they even have pci solutions for that? I suppose I could stream from a desktop, bu
Hmmm (Score:2)
Seems logical. (Score:1)
If somebody buys a Blu-Ray player, they're going to be buying it because they want to watch movies in HD.
Most people who will buy a 360 won't be too intersted in HDTV, they want to play the newest games.
Just a last minute fix maybe? (Score:2)