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Role Playing (Games) The Almighty Buck

Making A Living In Second Life 118

Posted by Zonk from the already-live-online-thanks dept.
Wired has an article looking at folks who have dropped out of the whole 'meatspace moneymaking' thing, and are now making their living in Second Life. From the article: "Within a month, Grinnell was making more in Second Life than in her real-world job as a dispatcher. And after three months she realized she could quit her day job altogether. Now Second Life is her primary source of income, and Grinnell, whose avatar answers to the name Janie Marlowe, claims she earns more than four times her previous salary. Grinnell isn't alone. Artists and designers, landowners and currency speculators, are turning the virtual environment of Second Life into a real-world profit center." Interesting, and with a respectability lacking in gold farming.
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Making A Living In Second Life

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  • What unregulated businesses? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mrs. Grundy ( 680212 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @01:40PM (#14671405) Homepage
    I wonder how long it will be before real-life politicians start setting up their own virtual offices in Second Life so they can tax the in-game profits of Janie Marlowe or try to regulate her online business.
    • This should still be reported as income, this is not anything new.

      • Actually, it allows individuals to be taxed similarly to corporations.

        Since Linden Dollars are not taxable in game (I think - correct me if I'm wrong) and they are only taxable as income when transferred out-of-game, only the profits realized from an in-game business are taxed.

        • IANAA, but,...

          I would expect that the IRS (in the U.S. anyway) would treat it as transactions in a foreign currency.

          Unless you take special actions re foreign currency transactions (and generally individuals can't), you can't just lump them together and be taxed on the net effect. This generally means that in-game profits are taxable to an individual as they occur.

          IANAA. Do not construe this as tax advice.

        • How exactly does one cash out of this game?

          Suppose you have a million Linden Dollars, how do you convert that to real world dollars?
          • You "sell them" or rather exchange them at for instance http://www.ige.com/ [ige.com]

            just like any ingame currency. Only this is allowed by the company in this case.
            • But your money isn't insured. Meaning that at any moment, you could essentially have nothing.

              Otherwise, I'd think this would be a pretty interesting way for laundering money.
              • Life doesn't come with guarantees... not the first, nor the second.

                A friend of mine started a shop. No, a real shop. It cost a crapload of cash, and in the end due to a road that changed direction and changed the entire flow of people through the area (from busy to deserted) his investment crashed, and he lost all his invested cash, because...

                When you invest, your money is rarely insured at all. This is just as true in the real world. If you want your money to be insured, then keep them in the bank... and h
                • At least a failed shop has real assets that can be liquidated or salvaged. If second life crashes, you're left with nothing but the memory of ones and zeroes that used to be on a server somewhere.
                  • But if it failed there are debts that needs to be paid by those assets... And what if it is destroyed in a hurricane or by a mob or something? Or by The Mob. You know, act of god is generally frowned upon by them insurance people.

                    A lot of people feel that this is insecure, mostly because they live in the false assumption that any job any business can be totally secure. Companies tank all the time. The risk of your second life company going belly up is no larger than the risk of your real world job or busine
              • Same thing with stocks, bonds, houses, foreign currency, and most of the stuff we invest in daily. Yet they are the subject of trillions of dollars in investments every year. That these happen to reside on a server in California makes little difference to their worth or value.

                Oh and in another great depression like senario do you really think the FDIC is going to bail out all the banks that could fail?
              • But your money isn't insured.

                I wonder how long it'll be until Second Life has an in-game monetary insurance business...
                • I tried to start one once in another virtual game that nobody plays [there.com], it didn't pan out very well. I really had no way to accumulate any form of interest on the money like real world insurance agencies do (keep it in banks).

                  Until taking money out of SL (to place in an interest earning account) and putting it back in doesn't result in a loss (you have to sell it cheaper than you buy it for, so 1,000,000 to cash then back results in 1,000,000), or at least a loss that's small enough that the bank interest wil
          • There is an in-game money market. Players can buy (with real US$) Linden dollars off of each other. The money is pushed back into a paypal account when you sell your in-game money.

  • Sustainable? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by oberondarksoul ( 723118 )
    I'm worried that people like this could well be in for a nasty surprise in the next few years. While they may well be making several times their previous salaries in MMORPGs, what happens if the game is simply closed by its manufacturers, or something better comes along that players flock to? If they can't then map their skills from one game to another, they're suddenly out of luck and out of a job - how sustainable is this sort of job? I certainly wouldn't quit my day job simply out of the security it woul

    • Re:Sustainable? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zatar ( 131299 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @01:58PM (#14671575)
      How is that different than taking a job with any new company? The company could just close down and then you'd be out of work.

      Heck, it happens to workers in old companies too (Enron, Worldcom, GM, Ford).

      Besides, if she's making 4 times her previous salary it won't take long to be able to afford to have a few years with no income at the same standard of living if she wanted. :)

      • Re:Sustainable? (Score:5, Funny)

        by slackmaster2000 ( 820067 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @02:12PM (#14671699)
        Until she has to go back out into the real world with this at the top of her resume:

        2006 - 2008, Played Video Games

        • Re:Sustainable? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Dr. Eggman ( 932300 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @02:23PM (#14671777)
          That's not how you write a resume! Its...

          2006-2008, Entrepreneurship in virtual atypical marketing, exchanges, and acquisitions.
        • Until she has to go back out into the real world with this at the top of her resume: 2006 - 2008, Played Video Games

          Have you visited the creative world of resume writing?

          Her resume would surely have something along the lines of Graphic Designer, or Data Broker, or Database Administrator, or some other nifty way to euphemize "made clothes for avatars is MMORPG". Hell, the two years that I sold paintings for an art dealer on ebay, I was a webmaster, customer service rep, or sales representative depending on w
          • You don't have :make up stuff: to make even the most inane of job experiences worthwhile.

            In this case she is, "exploring creative strategies for product and mindshare creation in a virtual economy and leveraging that into real world capital via an online simulation."

            Considering the projected growth rates for MMOs she is likely to end up with a PM job at some startup.
        • I would think that someone who was able to make a living playing a MMORPG (especially in the us economy ..) would be a desired employee. It's not a task easily done, and takes the type of creativity other people are willing to pay for. You know the person is also very motivated. I really cannot see it as being a bad thing!

          Of course, the bigwigs in HR might not be clueful ...
        • Not necessarily... she could put down the job she had in the game... I mean she's gotta be doing something right in the game to be making that much money. And a skill is a skill whether it's in real life or a virtual life that resembles (to some degree) real life.
      • Longevity notwithstanding, it's still fascinating to see how much people are willing to pay for their avatars. I suppose it's really not any differant than people paying large sums for physical non-essentials such as trendy art or fashionable clothing, but it's interesting that people are willing to pay to spruce up their virtual characters just like they do themselves.

        In fact, the biggest threat a virtual designer has is not if the business will dry up, but just the opposite -- that it will become so big
    • I take it you've never been part of a corporate layoff. ;)

      I'd say this job is probably more sustainable than some other real world jobs out there...
    • I certainly wouldn't quit my day job simply out of the security it would afford me - if the game ends tomorrow, at least I still have a paycheque.

      Some people are making 4 times their salary in the virtual world. If that were me, I'd quit my day job, work this virtual life till it can't sustain me, and go back to real work after.

      Consider it a lengthy sabatical or something. Totally worth it, but unfortunately, people like me are too cheap to even play something like this to begin with, let alone make money
      • You know Second Life is free, right?
        • Free at more basic levels, there are payments due from more advanced players. Checkout this broacher!

          ahref=http://secondlife.com/whatis/pricing.phprel= url2html-5010 [slashdot.org]http://secondlife.com/whatis/pricing. php>



          Note: the preview for the link is looking weird so I'm including this as an old fasion cut 'n paste just in case: http://secondlife.com/whatis/pricing.php [secondlife.com]
        • The free account doesn't offer you the ability to program objects outside of a small sandbox, if you want to be able to sell your programmed objects your going to have to pay. Though I guess you could be a party planner.. thought that really requires a virtual office which means you must own land, which means you must pay. But one could do a lot of planning and programming in the free version before paying.

          • The free account doesn't give you land ownership rights. With a free account you won't be setting up your own store or any other type of virtual space. However, space to sell your goods is available on other people's property for rental fees to be paid in Linden dollars.

            In this fashion, you can easily be cashflow positive in real life dollars without spending a penny of your money on the game.

          • Re:Sustainable? (Score:3, Informative)

            by Peganthyrus ( 713645 )
            You can make stuff in SL anywhere that the land owner hasn't set 'no building'. You can play with scripts anywhere that hasn't been set 'no scripts'.

            This accounts for something like, oh, 80% of the world, I'd guess.

            There are specific sandbox areas; some are small chunks of heavily-loaded sims*, some are entire sims given over to the task. Sandboxes are build-enabled, usually script-enabled, and have very lenient auto-sweep times, so you can just plop yourself down and start Making Stuff.

            Popular sandboxes ar

          • Re:Sustainable? (Score:3, Informative)

            by Tyger ( 126248 )
            There are 3 differences between the premium account that you can't do or are limited with a free account.

            1. Land ownership. Free accounts can't own land. But anybody can rent land if they have the money for it. So if you figure out a way to make enough money, you can rent with a free account.
            2. Weekly stipend is minute for free accounts. For the basic premium account, it comes out to about a month's fees.
            3. L$ to US$ exchange is limited for free (And even low level premium) accounts. But you can get ar
        • Shoot, even if you upgrade to the Premium account you can sell the weekly stipend on the Lindex and get your money back. Heck, there might even be enough profit in that (if the Lindex doesn't keep sliding like it has) to pay for the power your computer is using.
    • I think more of an immediate concern is the recent takeover of the bulk of the currency trading market by Linden after the withdrawal of GOM. There is an interesting story there if you read between the lines on the forums and various announcements from that time period.

    • Re:Sustainable? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jesrad ( 716567 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @02:21PM (#14671772) Journal
      Well, let me detail my own situation then: I'm an IT engineer in a country where unemployment is in the double digits. In my specific age and education class it's over 25%. I only ever get few-month-long missions for ever-varying employers. I can be laid off in a single day with no compensation, and I know a pay rise won't be happening in years. Social care ensures I get a revenue in between, but only for a few months.

      And aside from that, I make about half as much as my salary in Second Life using my programmation and innovation skills. I really consider this additional revenue to be my insurance against misery, should I not manage to get a new job after the current one, mainly because I can work at it from most places in the world, anytime, for almost as long as I want or can afford. That's some significant security in my opinion.
    • The questions you ask can certainly be ported over to any new job in any industry.

      While they may well be making several times their previous salaries in MMORPGs, what happens if the game is simply closed by its manufacturers, or something better comes along that players flock to?

      This is no different than working at a restaurant, bar, nightclub or any business which can easily close and has high turnover.

      If they can't then map their skills from one game to another, they're suddenly out of luck and out of

    • If you're succesful at it then you most likely will have skills needed other places in the game or software industries. If not how is it any different than any other job skill. Jobs, especially high tech jobs, come and go. From each you learn some skills that help you adapt to a new job. How many of us were making good money ten years ago doing web development compared to how many of us still can. It's still possible to do but is much more work and takes a lot more skills and adaptability.
    • If they can't then map their skills from one game to another, they're suddenly out of luck and out of a job - how sustainable is this sort of job?

      How sustainable is your current job?

      I certainly wouldn't quit my day job simply out of the security it would afford me - if the game ends tomorrow, at least I still have a paycheque.

      Right, but if the CEO of your company decides they need to cut labors costs, you might not.

      Any job is volitile, even if you are self employeed or a tenured state employee. Some jobs ar
      • So it is just silly to say that brick and mortar jobs is more secure than any of these online ones, because they are both insecure.


        I don't have to pay my employer a monthly fee to keep me working, and my company isn't dependant on the whim of a market as fickle as gamers.
  • Mmm wonder if it would be possibly to perform second life federal racketeering

  • With the Linux client, even more so. (Score:5, Informative)

    by strredwolf ( 532 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @01:54PM (#14671528) Homepage Journal
    Second Life released an Linux native alpha client. Some hard rough edges but very usable.

  • Some people make more money than others... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by __aajqwr7439 ( 239321 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @01:58PM (#14671578)
    Especially in the world's oldest profession [blogspot.com].

    DN
  • But not for the majority, otherwise it would all fall down as any earnings from the game would end up being pumped back into the game. Just like real life. The scary thing is that some people are probably paying more for in-game clothes/furniture than they do for their real-life self.

    But yeah, would be nice to be in on the receiving end of it at the moment. Until more people start getting creative, creating competition and driving prices down anyway.
    • [sarcasm]
      I think all the people of the world should quit their day jobs and earn money in a game.
      Famers, construction workers, law enformcement, health and safety services and everyone else should sit in there living room or basement and earn money from playing games, then everyone would be really rich and all the worlds problems would go away.
      [/sarcasm]

      I think it's really sad that people promote this kind of thinking by doing it. Life in general would fall apart if most people didn't stay behind in meatsp
      • You talk like these people are freeloading from the "noble" individuals that choose to make real products, but this is completely misguided. It takes a very basic knowledge of economics to realize that if too few "real" products were produced, then the price of those products would end up increasing, and people would have less money available to them to fund intangible things. This would make it more lucrative to switch back to producing the real products that are in demand, and things would balance out.

  • Making Money from Furries (Score:5, Funny)

    by Blakey Rat ( 99501 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @01:59PM (#14671584)
    You can make a lot of money from furries. Take an established section of the web market, add the word "fur" to it, and sell it at an inflated price and you're into money.

    Ask http://www.furcadia.com/ [furcadia.com] or http://www.furbid.ws/ [furbid.ws]

  • The Metaverse is finally here! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It really takes a while after starting Second Life before you realize the true, and staggering, implications.

    The metaverse is finally here!

    And it has a really, really, really low framerate!

    And there really isn't anything to do there except stand around in gaudy discos and watch your avatar run through a dance animation!

    Still, isn't it neat?
  • Anyone know for sure if Second Life runs on a Mac Mini? I was thinking of getting one to use just for that purpose but it appears it probably won't run Second Life. Such things aren't always as they seem from reading the requirements though. Any first hand experience?
    • Yeah, it runs. It was pretty brutal with 256MB, but I got 512MB now so its better. Of course I got a first-gen ( can I use "first-gen" here?) Mini, so any one you'd buy new now should adequate.
      • I'm looking for a used one with 1GB RAM so that sounds great. Thanks for the info. Know a better spot than eBay to find a used one? I haven't actually bought a Mac in years although I have used them quite a bit.
        • I've played SL on a mac mini (1.5ghz, 1GB ram), and it was pretty slow. Usable, I guess, but not really up to par. I was running it at 1600x1050, I think, with fairly low graphics settings. Just another data point.
    • It ought to work, but be warned it will be *slow*. I run it on a Powerbook 1.33 which is slightly better (IIRC the Mini is essentially an iBook) and it's barely usable. Power Mac or PC is the way to go with SL at the moment - and make sure it has an NVidia card, not ATI!
      • That was an option too. I have an old 1Ghz Windows boxen sitting in storage. I was thinking of just dumping some RAM and a nice video card in it. For the same price as a Mac Mini I could make it a pretty nice gaming rig and always upgrade the CPU later. Not as nice looking but doable.

        Mostly I just want to create content. In the olden days I used to run MOOs and was one of the better and more imaginative programmers for the systems. Maybe I could have some fun with Second Life too. I enjoy programming more t

        • Re:Mac Mini (Score:2, Informative)

          by tkiesel ( 891354 )

          Be careful about using that plan to get a dedicated Second Life box running. SL is CPU-limited rather than GPU-limited in terms of graphics candy. More memory on the graphics card is a great thing, but if what I've read is correct (which it may not be, of course) the CPU is a big determining factor in the SL experience.

          There are groups of residents petitioning to get the game's transform and lighting functions onto the GPU rather than the CPU.

    • It was pretty slow on my 1.42GHZ (I think) with 1GB of ram. You can play it but it get's pretty laggy.
    • Second Life is a surprisingly hardware intensive game. My wifes iMac (1.25Ghz G4 with a Geforce FX 5200) really dogs on SL. It runs, but it's not smooth enough to pilot aircraft or anything. She can look around at the scenery, build, and shop just fine, but anything that requires higher framerates (combat, some games) is right out.
  • This is just an example of how free markets create wealth.

    What value did Second Life have before people moved in and started exercising their rights to engage in unrestricted trade? Absolutely nothing, except a bunch of promise.

    But when people began exchanging goods and services without restriction, they begin to build something beautiful.

    Imagine for a moment that the owners of Second Life tried something other than free market economics. What if they decided they would dictate the direction of growth? Or w
    • Second life isn't "creating" wealth, it's just a new form of agragation. Second Life is gaining value because people are putting their money into it. It has nothing to do with free markets.

      Opening up a new market does not create wealth, it redistributes it. For every content person making money off of second life there are probably two or three people who are spending a significant portion of their income there. Thats where the wealth is coming from, not the invisible anus of the market.

      • Re:Free Markets = Instant Wealth (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ThosLives ( 686517 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @03:43PM (#14672510) Journal
        Ah, you are completely correct there. I wish more people understood the difference between 'wealth' and 'value', and that services such as markets do not create wealth but simply provide a valuable service.

        I almost think that 'wealth' is like economic energy: just as energy is "the ability to do work", 'wealth' provides the means to do (economic) work - that is, provide services. Here's an odd example: farming is a service that produces food - wealth - that can be used to perform more farming (by keeping people alive).

        Markets are a service in that they distribute wealth, but they do not create it. Markets have value, though, in that people are willing to trade wealth for the presence of the market.

        Ah, that seems a little like it could use some further development, but I think it's sufficient for now.

    • Sure, in a world with only wants and no needs (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Valdrax ( 32670 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @04:34PM (#14672903)
      This is just an example of how free markets create wealth.

      No. This is an example of a free market redistributing wealth earned in another external economy under completely different rules. All it is doing is rewarding someone for the fruits of their labors with the money others have earned elsewhere under different rules. All this is is someone earning a living under our existing non-free market system just like a flea market or yard sale.

      It's a fine example of how well a free market economy works when no one has essential needs and every purchase is a luxury purchase. SL characters don't die of starvation if they can't earn money. They don't die of exposure without the ability to afford housing. They don't need medical care. They don't grow old and infirm and require retirement. Not only would you never have to kill to survive, you couldn't kill for money even if you wanted to. Violent crime is impossible. You can't cause serious harm to people deliberately or even indifferently by way of pollution, foreclosure, or anything else.

      In other words, SL is nothing like reality. It is a world without disease, aging, or any other infirmity, non-consensual violence, and starvation or deprivation of any other sort. Well sure it works as a free market economy! All the hazards of the free market and human nature don't exist there.

      If you think that anything but free markets work, you haven't had much experience in the real world.

      If you think that free markets work, you haven't had much experience with reality. People who think free markets solve everything honestly don't understand the ramifications of the non-exclusive nature of public and common goods nor do they understand the net negative effects of the extreme poverty of others on oneself.

      • "If you think that free markets work, you haven't had much experience with reality. People who think free markets solve everything honestly don't understand the ramifications of the non-exclusive nature of public and common goods nor do they understand the net negative effects of the extreme poverty of others on oneself."

        It works better than a room full of stuffy old coots deciding how the economy should work by making decisions on what to do with the fruits of my productivity. Not perfect by any stretc

        • It works better than a room full of stuffy old coots deciding how the economy should work by making decisions on what to do with the fruits of my productivity. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but better than the alternatives.

          Ideally, this is done in a democratic fashion, and the people making these decisions have just as much of a mandate to mitigate the pitfalls of a lawless/free economy as much as they do a lawless/free society with laws against harming others. In my opinion, the governmen
          • You used the word "ideally" to start off your argument. That means, "in anywhere but real life". Because we do not live in an idyllic world, ideals are worth nothing unless they are practical.

            Let me explain. There is an ideal that everyone should be nice to one another. But this is an ideal. Real life is not like this. Far better is the concept that you should treat others like you would like to be treated. In real life, if you behave this way, you generally get ahead because you make friends and people lik
            • You used the word "ideally" to start off your argument. That means, "in anywhere but real life". Because we do not live in an idyllic world, ideals are worth nothing unless they are practical.

              I used ideally to contrast elected officials versus a totalitarian goverment, but since you've just dissed the concept of representative democracy being given any authority, I'm curious to know what system you would prefer.

              Let me explain. There is an ideal that everyone should be nice to one another. But this is an ide

        • If you think that free markets work, you haven't had much experience with reality. People who think free markets solve everything honestly don't understand the ramifications of the non-exclusive nature of public and common goods nor do they understand the net negative effects of the extreme poverty of others on oneself. -- Valdrax

          It works better than a room full of stuffy old coots deciding how the economy should work by making decisions on what to do with the fruits of my productivity. -- exi1ed0ne

          So

          • You are sadly mistaken. Yes, boards and CEOs make decisions. But they are given the right to make that decision by the shareholders, and that right can be revoked. The boards and CEOs didn't intrude on a group of people, demand they be made CEO and board members, and granted a charter for life. No, they serve at the whim of the shareholders.

            You'll not that unlike in politics, one bad decision means the downfall of an entire corporation. CEOs and board members lose BILLIONS of dollars if they make the wrong
      • ...no one has essential needs.....It is a world without disease...

        Interestingly, that's not really true. Many, many of the people that end up taking up long term residence in Second Life are hurting. There's a large number of residents that have emotional problems; loss of a loved one, physical or mental illness that keeps them from functioning to their fullest in the real world, a history of abuse, or some other burden that is overwhelming enough in this life that they are compelled to re-invent themselve
      • You have made a classic mistake, claiming that wealth is measured in dollars. Let me put you through a short thought experiment.

        * I have $100. I sit on it for a whole year. At the end of the year, I still have $100. Am I wealthy?

        * I have $100. I spend that $100 for fuel to power my car so I can go to work each day and earn $1000. Then I reinvest some of that money into fuel, clothing, shelther, entertainment, etc. By the end of the year, I earned $60,000 and spent $59,900 on things I wanted and things I nee
        • You have made a classic mistake, claiming that wealth is measured in dollars.

          You say this, but then you go to use a cooked example based on dollars to try to prove your point. Given what you do in the second example is in contrast with the first example, the real message of your examples is that people who do nothing don't create value and people who work do. Big revelation there.

          I cannot pinpoint the effects of another's poverty on my own situation. In fact, what you are and what you do do not affect me
          • People in poverty who cannot get by may be forced to do something amoral or illegal for survival. People in poverty who can barely get by but aren't properly education and don't have healthcare are less efficient workers and raise children that contribute less efficiently to the economy that supports you. Envy of people's "betters" and malaise lead to violent crime, drug use, social instability, and revolution.

            Nobody is forced to do anything. If someone is going to blame their crimes on their poverty, they

  • It's all BS (Score:4, Insightful)

    by presearch ( 214913 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @03:10PM (#14672208)
    Those making money are nothing but sheep farmers, harvesting from n00bs that wanna play with their paper dolls simulating getting laid.
    Despite the claims, it's a closed system with a very limited future, a collapsing eternal economy, and more bugs than a bait shop.
    The claim of "A user created community" is Linden/Rosedale just playing everyone for suckers, missing it's potential and merely focusing on profit,
    while wrapping themselves in a blanket of lazy, scamming altruism. There's a few interesting builds, but for the most part, it's more BigLots than Metaverse.
    The quality of the graphics looks like a game from 5 years ago, and they haven't improved on the look in well over a year, other than adding a water shader.

    Can't wait for someone to do it right.

    • Re:It's all BS (Score:3, Interesting)

      by presearch ( 214913 )
      Troll? I'm not trolling,
      I've been in-world for over a year, and this is my honest opinion.

      That's the most amazing thing about Second Life; its delusional players. Heaven forbid anyone critique -anything-.
      The Lindens generate a Reality Distortion Field that puts Steve Jobs to shame.

    • Re:It's all BS (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vertinox ( 846076 )
      Those making money are nothing but sheep farmers, harvesting from n00bs that wanna play with their paper dolls simulating getting laid.

      And this is any different from real life?

      I mean do you really need buy her those diamond rings, fancy shoes, and prance around in that new sports car just for the hell of it?

      Someone will always take advantage of the human desire to get laid. Even if it is just virtual.
  • One of the things that doesn't occur to most people is that you're getting a lot more value from a job than just the paycheck.

    Benefits are a large expense for any business.

    When you leave the world of paycheck + benefits, life gets a lot mre expensive. You have to shell out for your own medical, dental, vision insurance.

    That's part of the reason consultants charge so much per hour, they need to cover all those 'other' costs that you don't have to worry so much about in the corporate world.

    What I would really
    • A lot of people don't get dental, vision, or even decent medical insurance with their jobs. Plus, there's the hidden costs of having a job: travel times, bridge tolls and gas, inflexible hours, overtime without pay, stress/poor health.

      I'm not saying that an Oracle administrator should quit his job, but someone working at Best Buy may find this "SL career" a lot more rewarding (if they're good at it).
    • Ummm.. it depends on the benefits you need.

      My company pays ~$190, monthly, for my health, dental and vision. I do not believe that my (My paycheck) + 3 * ($190) = 4 * (My Paycheck)

      My father's benefits are expensive; he's older now, and my mother and sisters are his dependants. Total, his runs about $1000 a month.

      That's still only $18000 per year, pre-income-tax. And I believe that you can deduct your health care costs if you are self-employed.

      I'm very happy with my health care, and I know my father is happy
      • What your employer pays for your insurance isn't really relevant. Companies (particularly large ones) get huge breaks on the cost of insurance, because they bring lots of people who will be buying policies. Try to buy the same coverage on your own, and you will pay a *much* higher price if you can get it at all.
        • No, we're a little bitty company. 8 employees. Only 6 of which participate in the health plan. We don't get any discounts at all; one of the guys we work with is his own business, and the rates United Health care offers him are exactly the same as the rates they offer us. They don't even bother to bargain, they just give us their standard rate chart.

          I found (and am the primary point of contact for) the insurance broker myself, so I feel like I have a fairly decent grasp on the reality of the situation.

          The q

    • Re:She probably needs 4x her previous income (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      When you leave the world of paycheck + benefits, life gets a lot mre expensive. You have to shell out for your own medical, dental, vision insurance.

      Dude, she worked as a furniture delivery dispatcher. She probably had to buy her own pens for work, nevermind health care.
  • I made over 250 gold "coins/pieces" in WoW... but I don't have any gold in real life, except in my teeth (fillings). ... I wonder if I'll get rated Funny, or Troll ...

  • Sounds like Perky Pat to me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by noky ( 631168 ) on Wednesday February 08, 2006 @04:13PM (#14672754)
    This all reminds me of the Philip K. Dick story "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch". Space colonists would play "Perky Pat", basically inhabiting dolls in a doll world with the help of a drug. They'd spend all their time and resources creating elaborate "layouts" (ie: doll setups) and would lose themselves in this alternate reality. The company Perky Pat Layouts would sell all this paraphernalia to the colonists and make a ton of money.

    Just another example of Dick being ahead of his time. What a crazy world we live in.

  • Your thinly veiled racism is contemptible. I disrespect what you respect, and respect what you disrespect, because I disrespect your worldview.
  • Interesting, and with a respectability lacking in gold farming.

    The only differnce is that here, in Second Life, gold farming is permitted.

    It might be time we started to consider whether or not the problems from gold farming (economic, social, and otherwise) come not from the farming, but from the awkward, unenforceable prohibitions on it.

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