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XBox (Games)

360 Hackers Claim Full Read/Write Ability 76

Posted by Zonk from the now-they're-in-trouble dept.
Technology Sweden writes "According to the site Xbox-Scene, a program is available to transfer saved-games and more from the memory card or hard drive. This opens up a whole new world for the 360. Soon we might be able to run our own home brewed games and show our favourite Xvid movies."
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360 Hackers Claim Full Read/Write Ability More

360 Hackers Claim Full Read/Write Ability

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  • Good News for the Homebrews (Score:5, Informative)

    by eldavojohn ( 898314 ) * <eldavojohnNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday February 13, 2006 @11:23AM (#14706999) Journal
    So there are already sites out there for Dreamcast [dchomebrew.org], Xbox [xbox-hq.com], PS2 [dcemu.co.uk] and a multitude of other consoles/handhelds. This will make it a lot easier for homebrew execution to get started on the Xbox 360 for those who welcome it. It technically isn't legal since these developers don't have developer licenses but since they don't sell their homebrew apps, they usually aren't targeted.

    What a lot of people are interested in will probably be the porting of older consoles through known emulators to the Xbox 360. I don't want an Xbox 360 but we'll see how well this development takes off. I long for an emulator that plays my old SNES games as it is kind of cumbersome to have many many systems to hook up. A fully functioning Link to the Past on Xbox 360 would make me buy it.

    For those of you looking for free game ISOs to dump from the internet to your Xbox 360, this is not something that will allow this yet as from the article:
    Note: Before people try to launch crazy ideas again: No this does not allow you to copy retail games (signed for XBOX360DVD media only) to the HD and play them. It's a tool that gives you access to the Xbox 360 HD and Memcard from a PC, it does not hack/bypass any security.
    So there's no free games yet. On top of that, you can't shell out the boot sequence from a disc to use it for launching your own homemade application. Hopefully we'll see that in a few more months. I myself am not really interested in "free" games, just want to be able to use my Xbox as a real toy instead of the confines of those who can afford the insane developer's license fee.

    Anyone else notice that this article reads like an advertisement for 360gamesaves [360gamesaves.com]? There's three links to it.
    • "I long for an emulator that plays my old SNES games as it is kind of cumbersome to have many many systems to hook up. A fully functioning Link to the Past on Xbox 360 would make me buy it."

      Xbox and Dreamcast have fully ported emulators that run at speed with full sound. What's the problem?

      I will honestly say that my modded Xbox is one of my most prized possessions. While the Xbox is not what I would call portable it is nice to be able to take all my favorite Xvid rips with me to a friend's house or on

      • "I long for an emulator that plays my old SNES games as it is kind of cumbersome to have many many systems to hook up. A fully functioning Link to the Past on Xbox 360 would make me buy it."

        Xbox and Dreamcast have fully ported emulators that run at speed with full sound. What's the problem?

        So which emulator would that be for Dreamcast? DreamSNES hasn't been updated for over three years, and it does not run all games at full speed with full sound. Super Famicast is better at some things, but after a bi

    • It technically isn't legal since these developers don't have developer licenses but since they don't sell their homebrew apps, they usually aren't targeted.

      What's illegal about developing for the XBox 360? There's no law that says, "you must obtain a license to produce software for a game console."

      There is a law that makes it illegal to circumvent protection mechanisms (DMCA), but the standard "reverse engineering for compatibility" loophole was left intact. (Albeit not as strong as it once was.) AFAIK, no
      • It's not illegal, but I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't give you the
        right to stamp commercial software with an Xbox logo if you
        haven't paid them for a devkit (or whatever it is that exchange
        gives you).

        Some major stores wouldn't take in software that isn't "approved"
        either.

      • There's no law that says, "you must obtain a license to produce software for a game console."

        Other than patent law? If the disc format or cartridge format is a patented invention, than anybody who makes use of the invention without the OK of the patent holder is liable for patent infringement.

        AFAIK, no one has challenged a console maker in court over reverse engineering for compatibility, making it a legal issue that's still up in the air.

        Accolade, a developer of unlicensed software for Sega Genes

        • anybody who makes use of the invention without the OK of the patent holder is liable for patent infringement

          I think you meant anybody who makes money off of the invention (or attempts to). It's never been illegal to make something for yourself, even if it has technology from 10,000 patents. It's also never been illegal to give said object to someone else. It is, however, illegal to infringe on the patent holder's right to make money (or attempt to) off of their invention.

          Remember, patents don't give patent

          • It's never been illegal to make something for yourself, even if it has technology from 10,000 patents.

            Can you back up this assertion? I seem to remember 35 USC 271 [uspto.gov] not having a broad personal use exemption. Or are you speaking of the patent law of a specific jurisdiction outside the United States?

            • Indeed, it appears you are quite right (thanks for the link, BTW). The "personal use exemption", as you well put it, appears to be valid in Europe, but NOT in the U.S. of A.

              It seems to me that it used to be valid here. If so, I then wonder, When was it changed?

    • Perhaps more important for existing 360 owners who don't wish to change any hardware or software of their console is the ability to stream or read video off the console's hard drive or an attached external USB drive. Right now, that can be done with pictures and audio, but not video. Sure, you can do it if you have a Windows Media Center PC (or Vista) but in the meantime there's nothing else.

      For Mac users, a company has software that will allegedly let you stream audio and see pictures from a Mac OS X box [nullriver.com].
    • I long for an emulator that plays my old SNES games as it is kind of cumbersome to have many many systems to hook up.

      So you're buying a Revolution?

      • So you're buying a Revolution?

        Well, you know. We all want to change the world.

      • I don't believe he said "I long to pay companies more money to use content I already own again." Which seems to be what you meant, unless Nintendo & co have come out and said the old content will be free if you buy a Revolution. (possible, I don't pay much attention to next-gen news)

        Of course, then there's the question of "a free lunch" but we'll leave that to philosphers.
    • Anyone else notice that this article reads like an advertisement for 360gamesaves? There's three links to it.

      XBox-Scene is a news site. Similar to the one you're reading, the software they are talking about was written by the people at 360gamesaves and the first half of the article is a quote from 360gamesaves.

  • All too easy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by voice_of_all_reason ( 926702 ) on Monday February 13, 2006 @11:26AM (#14707034)
    This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of DRM, it will soon see the end of the rebellion.

  • How Does M$ View This? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eldavojohn ( 898314 ) * <eldavojohnNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday February 13, 2006 @11:29AM (#14707081) Journal
    I wonder how this news is seen in Microsoft's eyes?

    1. A security flaw that needs to be analyzed and fixed in a possible firmware update.
    2. A sign that players want a sort of "utilities" disc that allows them access to hardware in the machine. Much like the Linux kit that was made available for the PS2.
    3. A possible idea to expand upon and a valuable tool for their developers to learn from.
    4. Rest of the world? That doesn't exist inside Microsoft so this utility program actually was never written. We know what our customers want and that's that.
    • 5. A revenue stream to be exploited.
    • Microsoft's Xbox team (if they ever had the attitude) learned the hard way about #4, and #2 & #3 are in fact reinforcing reasons for attitude #1 to be the most likely.

      If you haven't noticed, Microsoft is marching firmly in lock step with the recording and movie industries over the idea that customers should not be allowed to use what they purchase in ways that do not make Microsoft more money. Letting developers learn how to put stuff on the machine without going through MS's SDK could lead to homebrew
      • My understanding is that Microsoft sees that the recording/movie/television industries aren't going to make content available to people without DRM, and given the choice between having DRM content available, and not having content at all, would rather have the former. Would you rather have no content at all? Honestly?

        And yes, I'm sure this will be seen as a security issue, assuming there's any such issues here. Remember that the important issues here are preventing the copying of games, the hacking of ga
        • I really do suspect that if there was some sort of means that they could use to prevent piracy and cheating, and yet allow end users to do homebrew development, then they'd do it.

          I don't. Microsoft does not like non-commercial software development at all. It represents a model in fundamental conflict with the existence of their business.

          The big reason they wouldn't like it though is that all the money Microsoft makes off of the 360 comes from big developers who have to pay license fees to have access to t

        • Would you rather have no content at all?

          I would rather have no proprietary content at all. If all the content is free (e.g. Free Art License) or semi-free (e.g. CC by-sa-nc), there's still a market.

          • OK, fair enough, I over-generalized. Of course there would still be free content. But I would suspect that your view - that you'd rather have no proprietary content than have DRM - while popular here on Slashdot, isn't the prevailing opinion overall. And it's not like Microsoft not supporting DRM would prevent it from happening - look at iTunes.

            And remember, one of the reasons that Microsoft backs HD-DVD over Blu-Ray is that HD-DVD restrictions are not as severe as those for Blu-Ray. The consumer ends u

            • And it's not like Microsoft not supporting DRM would prevent it from happening - look at iTunes.

              Difference is that the iTunes software also allows the user to encode a homebrew .wav file into .mp3 or .m4a, formats that lack digital restrictions management, and load it onto an iPod player. The Xbox 360 does not allow this with games, nor does it allow this with video unless you also buy an expensive Windows XP Media Center PC.

      • Evidence: see this [free60.org]. The harddisk is not locked in any way.

        The original Xbox HDD was password-locked to the machine, and used a custom filesystem loosely based on FAT. On the 360, they deliberately didn't lock the drive, not even with a common password. They didn't even bother to change the filesystem. No encryption, no obfuscation, nothing.

        MS obviously knew the HDD would be one of the first lines of attack, yet they made no particular effort to secure its contents - in fact, they actually reduced the pr

  • Argh, Matey! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaiBLUEl.com minus berry> on Monday February 13, 2006 @11:30AM (#14707101) Homepage Journal
    Soon we might be able to run our own home brewed games and show our favourite Xvid movies.

    Which is to say that piracy of 360 downloadable games will soon flourish.

    Are there really any examples of "homebrew" games for modern systems? Being as complex as they are to program, I don't really see why anyone would bother homebrewing a game on the 360 when they can produce the exact same software for the PC. (Much quicker and easier, too.)

    I could see the possibility of turning the 360 into a PVR, but doesn't it seem like purchasing or building a dedicated PVR for less $$$ would make more sense? Do you really want to spend $400 just to hack it into a machine that you could have had for $150-$200?

    I'm all for the school of thought that says, "It's my hardware, I want to do with it what I want." But sometimes it's okay to say, "this is cool, even thought I don't really have a real use for it yet." :-)
    • "Are there really any examples of "homebrew" games for modern systems?"

      The only ones I can think of are emulators which run (you guessed it) pirated games for the most part.

      As far as semi-modern systems go, there is BattleSphere for the Atari Jaguar.

      It is important to note though that as a PVR the 360 could in theory record playback an HD signal so it might be worth the $400 for that.
    • By homebrew, it usually actually means emualtors, and most of the software people actually run on those emulators is copyright infringing as well.

      I think the main idea of running stuff from a console is conveinience, you don't have to mess around configuring a PC etc. to run well on a bog standard TV, you just plug it in and it just works.

      • By homebrew, it usually actually means emualtors, and most of the software people actually run on those emulators is copyright infringing as well.

        That's a big "usually". Take Tetanus On Drugs [pineight.com] or anything else in the GBA section of pdroms.de. What copyright does it infringe?

    • There is one I really like for xbox called "Super Mario War." It uses sounds and sprites from all the different mario games, but is essentially a four-player battle mode (similar to the challenge mode in SMB3, but with different point-scoring goals). Four-player is great, and I love enabling the UT sounds (boing boing boing M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!!!) It's a blast.

    • Re:Argh, Matey! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by christopherfinke ( 608750 ) <chris@efinke.com> on Monday February 13, 2006 @12:13PM (#14707704) Homepage Journal
      Are there really any examples of "homebrew" games for modern systems?
      I don't know if this counts, but there is the newly available "Mario Adventure," [vintagecomputing.com] which was produced by an individual who hacked the SMB3 game engine to produce an entirely new 2-D Mario adventure. I played it on my Dreamcast last night, and it is a great deal of fun.

    • Re:Argh, Matey! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Valdrax ( 32670 ) on Monday February 13, 2006 @12:40PM (#14708088)
      I could see the possibility of turning the 360 into a PVR, but doesn't it seem like purchasing or building a dedicated PVR for less $$$ would make more sense? Do you really want to spend $400 just to hack it into a machine that you could have had for $150-$200?

      You're looking at this problem from the wrong angle. Would you rather spend $550-600 for an Xbox 360 and a PVR, or just $400 for an Xbox 360? What if it could also serve as an emulator, a wireless A/B/G router with firewall, and a three-processor, Linux, websurfing / media PC that runs on 160 Watts? Heck, the thing already plays DVDs and streams music without hacks.

      The moment that Linux becomes available for the XBox 360, I'm buying one even if it means that I can never boot a game on it without Microsoft patching and eliminating my Linux system. I don't care about Xbox 360 games and plan to never buy one; I just want a cheap, powerful, energy efficient Linux PC. Making MS subsidize my Linux box is only a cherry on top.

      • The moment that Linux becomes available for the XBox 360, I'm buying one even if it means that I can never boot a game on it without Microsoft patching and eliminating my Linux system. I don't care about Xbox 360 games and plan to never buy one; I just want a cheap, powerful, energy efficient Linux PC. Making MS subsidize my Linux box is only a cherry on top.

        I am in the same boat, pretty much. I want a media center PC that I can use to play video on. I want to be able to control it via telnet from my lapt

        • I want to be able to control it via telnet from my laptop as an uber remote control.

          You mean "ssh"; otherwise somebody will sniff your session and switch it to the Goatse Channel.

          I want it to run a bit torrent client so I don't need another machine on all the time.

          And watch frame rate drop as the scheduler has trouble handling the demands of video playback and BitTorrent routing simultaneously.

          I also want to be able to run SNES games on it.

          How do you plan on dumping your Super NES cartridges

          • I want to be able to control it via telnet from my laptop as an uber remote control.

            You mean "ssh"; otherwise somebody will sniff your session and switch it to the Goatse Channel.

            Well, sure. But, if it is a Linux box, that's no problem. Whether I use telnet or VNC, or SSH, or roll my own control interface, I know that I can get it to work, regardless of what OS is running on the machine I want to use as a controller.

            I want it to run a bit torrent client so I don't need another machine on all the time.

            And

            • Look, I'm gonna have to admit that not everything downloaded via bit torrent is going to be something that I have a license for.

              The problem is that the dominance of emulators in the homebrew scene combined with the widespread unauthorized copying of classic video games through BitTorrent, eMule, and similar computer programs might lead console makers to believe that homebrew implies piracy, whether of current games or of classic games. We need examples of substantial non-infringing homebrew programs in

      • Would you rather spend $550-600 for an Xbox 360 and a PVR, or just $400 for an Xbox 360?

        If it meant an Xbox 360 game turning off so that it could record a show, then I'd pay more for a pair of machines that can play games and record video at once. Or what if I have more than one TV in my house?

        What if it could also serve as an emulator

        How would one lawfully obtain ROM dumps? Except for the GBA, a copier isn't affordable nor sold at retail.

    • Are there really any examples of "homebrew" games for modern systems? Being as complex as they are to program, I don't really see why anyone would bother homebrewing a game on the 360 when they can produce the exact same software for the PC. (Much quicker and easier, too.)

      Try this for an example [xbins.org] for instance. Sure, many of the titles are ports of existing software to Xbox. But as with all things that involve some hackery, there's never need for question why. You'll always get the ultimate answer: becaus
    • For what it's worth, the Nintendo DS is cracked wide open and people are writing all sorts of fun homebrew for it. (And although this emulator [drunkencoders.com] is a favorite, games like this one [omalone.free.fr] are also a big hit.)
    • I think if homebrew games were allowed and encouraged on consoles, they would occupy a very significant niche. For example, I'd not mind playing a console-ified OAngband (but hopefully programmed to work with fewer button presses). :) However, if it's as keying intensive as the PC version, I may have to pass. Think of games like Katamari Damaci -- I think we'd have a lot more games like that. So, just because no one is making homebrew games for consoles yet, doesn't mean people wouldn't make them if the
  • ...waiting patiently for the day I can run XBMC on my 360. Then I can move the XBOX to another room or a vehicle.

  • RTFA (Score:4, Informative)

    by MeanMF ( 631837 ) * on Monday February 13, 2006 @11:38AM (#14707197) Homepage
    People need to RTFA before submitting... The article specifically says this does NOT get around any kind of security measures present in the 360, and that this doesn't bring them any closer to running homebrew content or bypassing the 360's copy protection and DRM measures.
    • Agreed...this is why I'm still "waiting patiently".
    • "People need to RTFA before submitting..."

      Wait... you do realize that this is Slashdot? Right? The only link people actually click and read is the "Comments" one to hastily post their view regardless of fact or fiction. And until recently the occasional Goaste link, Natalie Portman reference, or to pour hot grits down their pants.
  • ...perhaps someone can enlighten me on this somewhat unrelated topic.

    I have an unhacked XBOX and a bunch of games I play only on occasion. It is annoying, sometimes, how the games load so slowly. I just want to play and put it away.

    Can I, without otherwise "hacking" my XBOX hardware, copy the game disks to the internal drive to play them faster? Even if it was just one game at a time, it would improve game enjoyment significantly.

    And I do play the XBox-live once in a blue moon with my sons and family...
    • Do a search for mod chips. I use the X3. This allows me to put all my XBox games in a box and not have to wait for them to load. I select them from a menu and run them. To make storage for games, you will need to add a new hard drive. I wouldn't go back. Changing games? Just hold both triggers and select (I think) and you reboot back into the menu system and start another game.
    • What, you expect Microsoft to give you extra functionality for free? If you arent happy with the loading speed buy a 360! Seriously, though, it is trivial to install a hacked bios (as many others pointed out) without modifying the hardware with the older Xboxes (wont work with boxes MFRd after april 04, i believe) but you will lose LIVE functionality altogether. If you want to retain it, you need a chip that can be installed and set to enabled (running games off the hard drive) or disabled (running games
      • Very informative indeed. I learned quite a bit about the softmod process in a short time. I now know that I need to buy two things -- first, a game that can be exploited, second a device to allow me to transfer save-game files. Well, three things actually, since I don't have a save-game card yet.

        As for XBox live? Well I just may buy a second XBox anyway... easier to play with the kids anyway... so one modded and the other not. And just be make it less likely that the modded will talk to Live, I'll just
  • Three hundred and sixty script kiddies can read and write now? Uh oh.
  • "This opens up a whole new world for the 360. Soon we might be able to run our own home brewed games and show our favourite Xvid movies." "

    1) You can already play your favorite movies that are on your XP Media Center PC on the 360.
    2) This has very little to do with home brewed (or pirated) games. You can already copy over music, movies, and download games from XboxLive to the HDD. M$ did the same with Xbox1 - they have allowed people access to their own HDD.

  • So (Score:1)

    by galdosdi ( 891570 )
    So other than those 360 dudes, are all the other hackers illiterate?

  • Don't celebrate just yet (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is basicly a file system driver and nothing more. In fact the free60 devs(free60.org) have had a filesystem driver like this for thier linux project for weeks. This is just the windows flavour. there is not a ata password on the harddrives this time around. They harddrives even advertise the feature or switching between systems. it didn't take anything special to read/write the drive. It is standard sata. Homebrew is no where near possible yet. the xex(360 executables) are signed. the pirs archives whi

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