Gran Tourismo HD Cars Sold Seperately? 329
KDR_11k writes "1up reports on a Famitsu article discussing the future of microtransactions for PS3. According to the article, Gran Tourismo HD will require all cars to be bought via microtransactions. More specifically, the 'classic' package will come with no cars or tracks and the 'premium' package will include 30 cars and a measly 2 tracks to race on. Additional cars cost between 50 and 100 yen ($0.43-$0.85) and tracks go for 200-500 yen ($1.71-$4.26) a piece. No pricing was given for the game itself." From the article: "Now, is it possible that the game will be a full-priced title with a built-in download system that allows users to download cars and tracks equal to the number of the game's retail price? We hope the model ends up similar to this. However, right now, details are extremely sparse, and Sony has to have an answer to these questions -- most of the people who can answer are over in Tokyo, we'll update if we hear back. Welcome to next-gen."
Welcome to SONY next-gen (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Make money off the initial sale.
2) Make money off the used game market.
3) Profit!
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Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (Score:4, Insightful)
Your other point about them "allowing" a used game market is quite apropos to how they feel..
Re:Welcome to SONY next-gen (Score:5, Insightful)
Off course they do. Saying that it brings nothing to the developer is the same fallacy than saying that one pirate copy of Windows is one net sale less for Microsoft. There are other dynamics: for example people sell game and reinvest the money directly into new games, or people that get access to more title in the second hand market and may become buyer in the first hand market, or some people invest more because they have the feeling than they can always resell it if they don't like it,
That's very difficult to know the real NET effect of second hand sales. Second Hand market is legit and part of the dynamic of the market. Killing the second hand market is only telling your customer that the intrinsic value of your product is nil. That's not actually a problem, that's working for an entry to the theater for example but that doesn't mean that you will be able to continue to sell your game with the same price tag.
The new price tag may be higher if the demand is high and the offer is low but in this case I doubt it. If the second hand market is really causing them a net problem, then maybe that's because the perceived value of their product is already lower than their price tag ( no replayability, poor packaging, feeling of disposable product instead of exclusive product,
Meet the New Boss.. (Score:4, Insightful)
The torrent version of Half-Life 2 even had a fancy optimizer (not sold by Valve) that made the game run faster and fixed a few bugs. I'm still waiting to see the first game that can't be diddled to defeat the copy protection or online authentication. Or maybe it's already come along but nobody cared (or bought the title).
I say, let these foolish content providers destroy themselves with more onerous methods of limiting the value of their games to the second-hand market. It will give us a new generation of creative young people who will be our next software designers. And other companies will come along that embrace their customers and the after-market market that provides us with a longer life for our games in the form of mods and patches.
Most of you aren't old enough to remember the motto of merchants in the past: "The Customer is Always Right" - a motto that made them successful and their customers happy. These rapacious bastards have embraced the opposite approach to the people that keep them in business.
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What is the 5-year
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Swi
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Myes... welcome to the brave new world of buying your games one strip at a time [penny-arcade.com] I think the simplest and most elegant way of making this fad die amongst developers is also the best way of getting back at them for ramming this down our throats in the first place. Now... it'll take a bit of coordination... and a very very small degree of work... bah.. fuck it
I'm hittin IHOP...
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And now we've seen where that particular slippery slope has led...
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I could understand including all the usual cars and tracks in the game, and then selling additional stuff created
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The worst part of all this is that GT HD is not even a new Gran Turismo game. It is apparently just a high-res revision of GT4.
Mmm... Yeah... (Score:2)
I'd happily drop $30 if they'd re-release Morrowind on the Oblivion engine...
In defense of Oblivion (Score:5, Insightful)
What is being proposed for GT would be like selling things in Oblivion on a per quest basis. "Oh you want to do that quest? That'll be $1 please.". In Oblivion they give you plenty for your money, I mean the game is very large, very rich, and very detailed. They are just also willing to sell you some additional content. It's not really worth it and is mostly for show, but if you wish to spend the money fine. However they aren't trying to decrease your experience and require that you buy it.
Re:In defense of Oblivion (Score:4, Insightful)
And ultimately that is the problem with this extremely slippery slope we've been on with extra content for years now. First it started as full fledged expansions, then smaller expansions, then "episodes" and now items. If they CAN scrape the content and sell it later for more, it has been proven they WILL do it. What's next...paying for stats when you roll your character? You want to play with a good character don't you? That'll be 5 bucks more.
And thanks to inflation, you don't have just one product going up in price, suddenly all the micro purchases go up in price.
And the worst part is when buying it gives you an unfair advantage over others. And for those who don't believe this has happened in America yet, I point you to Battlefield 2 and their Special Forces expansion where they let people use those weapons in the regular vanilla game on the ranked servers. And the guns they give have a HUGE advantage.
Good and Bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm fine with the developers expanding a game (in an incremental way as compared to major expansion packs) after the initial release, but the initial release MUST be a complete gaming experience. To release an incomplete game (no cars or courses as given in the example) and expect users to buy additional components to make the game playable is ridiculous.
I'm sure this will be sold as a "feature" and will be explained away with "why FORCE users to buy items that they don't want or need," but to me it sounds like a lovely way to force you to sign up for a "service."
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If this report is true, why not just make it a racing MMO? It seems like there are enough of that kind of player to justify it.
At any rate, I'm not interested in an MMO or any game where you must buy enhancements. It's really pretty odd, I know there's some development time in making upgrades and all that, but that's rediculous. If I pay for a game, I expect it to be fully useable out of the box.
only because you missed it (Score:5, Insightful)
They sold a Santa outfit for the main character in Kameo.
They sell custom player icons for a few bucks. These icons are mostly ads for games.
They are readying new technology for October that allows developers to see you consumables in game. So they can sell you something, have it wear out and SELL IT TO YOU AGAIN.
I can understand not knowing the last part, but the rest just shows you aren't paying any attention. If you were looking at everything that is going on, MS would have made your hit list long before Sony.
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So I think that your analogy to MS about expansions, consumeable, etc misses the point. Because when those games shipped, the reality of the situation is that you could at least use them.
Now, if Sony was going ot ship their product for $10 and charge that for the cars, then by all means. However, if they
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Many 360 games have this "feature" already, it just isn't that bad yet. You don't need to buy weapon packs in Chromehounds, but you'll have an advantage if you do...
Microsoft announced plans for this back in 2004. They compared it to the ring-tone industry for cell-phones. And unless something major happens, you should expect most PS3 and XB360 games to have micro-payment content from now on.
I hope this kind of greed (Score:5, Interesting)
same as it ever was (Score:4, Insightful)
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What's next? hd output costs extra? textures not included?
batteries not included (Score:3, Insightful)
1. You cant just fly a product with batteries into the US. Its easier and cheaper to ship batteryless gadgets or did you want to pay a premium on crappy bottom-barrel no name batteries?
2. Its costs you more because now youre paying increased shipping for the product in the total cost instead of being able to freely choose batteries at the store. What if one brand is one sale but youre paying 2x that in the bundled batteries? Guess what, you just got ripped off.
Re:batteries not included (Score:4, Insightful)
Death of game (Score:4, Funny)
World's First FREE Video Game! (Score:4, Funny)
<fineprint>
Seriously though, reduced-price modular video games expandable through micropayments is a neat concept. I can only hope that such a system remains optional, however...
PS3 is starting to sound better every day! (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, it's cool if true EXTRAS are open to purchase, but I tend to feel jipped if a product doesn't even provide the basic experience I was expecting out of the box.
They can go screw themselves.... (Score:2)
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Film at 11: "Sony destroys computer entertainment" (Score:5, Insightful)
I always liked GT... had bought a PS/1 _only_ for Gran Toursimo, same about half a year ago with a PS/2, because I was in a spending mood.
I personally haven't touched a computer game for six or seven years right now - except Gran Tourismo.
Buying each track, each car? This would be just a rip-off. So, Sony/Polyphony Digital/Whoever you're expecting me to pay hundreds of bucks to play all the nice cars and tracks that had been available in every game before? I say NEVER, NEVER.
YOu now what? Your PS/3 seems to be a blatant consumer rip-off and if the story is true the day will come that I - as a consumer - will stop buying Sony products.
Go and copy some macbooks, your big days are obviously over.
Re:Film at 11: "Sony destroys computer entertainme (Score:2)
Re:Film at 11: "Sony destroys computer entertainme (Score:4, Interesting)
I bought a PS2 specifically for two games: Gran Turismo 3 and Grand Theft Auto 3. I would probably have eventually broken down and purchased a PS3, after it came down in price a bit, just to play the next installments of those two games. Now, GTA4 is also being released on the 360 and Sony is killing the Gran Turismo series for me. And that's just me, the occasional gamer, who would have eventually ended up building his PS3 game library to the same 25 - 30 game level as my PS2 library. The guy who buys accessories and who pays for XBox Live!, even though I maybe play one game a month over it.
What about the casual gamers? Many times these are the same people that don't have broadband at home. Some of them probably don't even have computers as they have no need for them. They just like to play the occasional video game as a way to unwind. I know several characters like this (mostly amateur racers and semi-pro racers) who bought a PS2 and don't play anything other than GT3 and/or GT4. I used to go to one friend's house and we would end up playing GT3 for hours on end. I guarantee you that friend isn't going to be buying a PS3 and GT:HD.
Anyway, enough ranting. I think it's safe to assume that everybody on
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I found it much more immediate than any of the GT games, and the online play (y'hear that sony!) was great.
Anyway, it sounds as though PS3 owners would be much better off just getting an old copy of Grand Turismo and playing *that* until Sony get off the LSD.
Assuming there'll *be* any PS3 owners.
Fat chance (Score:2)
Well going by Sony's track record, the game will be at best half price, and will include a maximum of $10 worth of "credit".
What a Winner.......Not (Score:5, Insightful)
So the games industry wants to know what fuels piracy? Well, stuff like this certainly helps quite a bit.
Re:What a Winner.......Not (Score:4, Interesting)
Beyond the initial cost, a WoW subscription is over $150/year. Do they add the equivalent content for 3 full $50 games in that whole year? Is the new gameplay innovative or just copying old stuff with a different treasure at the end? Are the graphics getting any better? So many people are playing it.
I'm not saying WoW is bad, just that a great many players are happy to throw down tons of cash on a game as long as they find it fun. I don't know how well this will work for a racing game, but the business plan has worked before. I definately don't like the idea of paying individually for all the initial levels but I think it would be pretty cool if I could download an expansion every month with a new car and a few new maps, if the price was kept low.
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That'll teach me to not put a disclaimer in there, since I wasn't defending WoW... just saying that you can't really draw an accurate comparison between the two...
I won't try to convince you that you'd need even a fifth of that for server maintenance and salaries... but it'd at least be a few million (a conservative guess for, say, 20 people at 50k/year = 1 mil, and they've probably got ten times that in the "division" or w/e the hell their cell is for WoW, most of whom probably make more than 50k/year)..
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How? If you just download the game, you won't be able to enjoy it unless you buy some cars and tracks to play with. And you probably won't be able to do that since your modded ps3 has good chances of beign flagged as a non-legit unit by the online store. This sort of thing can actually force more people to buy their games and not to mod their console.
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But it also curbs piracy because if you pirate the game, you're just gonna have to buy content for it anyway.
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Re:What a Winner.......Not (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps your contemporaries see a difference between depriving someone of a physical item and making an exact digital duplicate of digital content.
Without making any moral or ethical judgments on the behavior, it's difficult for me to use the same word for both actions when the outcomes are so different.
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Synergizing the paradigm shift... (Score:3, Insightful)
This will work excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
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Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (Score:4, Insightful)
If the game sells at half price to start, and I can buy just the cars I like and all the tracks at a price lower than most of the other retail titles - then the idea will be a good one for the game designers and consumers alike.
But outside of that, automatic mistrust of micropayments that seems to be rampant in responses to this story smacks of luddite thinking. Is not this the future we wanted, to be able to buy things in small components and assemble them as we wish? Greed may or may not enter into it but as a gamer the ability to buy a custom variety of tracks (some perhaps user designed!!) and cars is appealing.
But then again, it came from Sony so all of the normal interest in technology is turned topsy-turvy in bloodlust to see Sony fall. What a shame there are not more pure gamers and enlightened technical thinkers about Slashdot nowadays rather than having the populace fall to the Herd Mind of Rage which is all too popular in so many areas of thought these days. Far easier to demonize than engage in rational thought, I guess.
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A couple points:
1. Youre buying something but you dont own it. How are you going to "assemble" some locked down proprietary software add-on on a locked down console?
2. This aint the future. There's nothing older than the "buy more accessories" scam.
3. Sony has more than earned its reputation. If people hate it then guess what, thats real market forces at work.
4. People
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2) Accessories do not fundmentially change the nature of a product. If I can buy (for example) only dirt rally tracks, that makes it a different product than if I buy only oval high-speed tracks.
3) Sony has earned a reputation in abusing micropayments how again? You are confsing perhaps the actions of Sony Music with Sony Gaming, not even the same company and not even the same problem.
4) Slashdot
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Wrong. One of the key characteristics is the ability to resell. If this goes the way it appears to be going, those add-ons will be locked to me, not my copy of the game. Therefore, when I sell the game, I probably will not be able to sell the tracks that go with it, significantly reducing the game's resale value. This isn't a problem when you plan on permanently keeping every game you buy. Bu
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I challenge this assertion.
How are you getting these cars?
Downloading them of course, via your Playstation.
Know what that means?
They're going to locked to your particular playstation or memory card to prevent "piracy".
There are a number of negatives you're not taking into
Challenge the challenge (Score:2)
They're going to locked to your particular playstation or memory card to prevent "piracy".
Would it not be far more likley these items are tied to your account rather than a particualr Playstation or memory card (the latter not even making sense since it would probably go on the internal hard drive).
There are a number of negatives you're not taking into account:
-Shitty resale value for the game itself
Why? Other people still have to buy the shell, so you can always sell it to people want
Re:Pricing is key, micropayments unjustly attacked (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is that this system turns classic rewards in video games on its head. Back in the arcade you had to insert a coint when you failed a level, with this new system you have to insert a coin when you beat it. So success will be punished instead of rewarded, could be a great way to let motivation drop down quite a bit, even if the total money wouldn't be that different.
I don't think there is anything wrong with micropayment in itself, in fact I think its great for true additional content, but designers have to be very care full to not turn it into an annoyancy. The system in GT HD doesn't sound like they sell you additional content, it sounds like they sell you content you would have gotten with the game for 'free' a few years ago. This again has little todo with actual money, even so they probally wouldn't do it if they could gain more profit from it, but much more with psychology. Gaming should be first and for most fun, being forced to think about paying for the next level or track however isn't something that I would consider fun, I simply don't want to be bothered by such things when playing the game.
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That's a really good point, it seems to change the game dynamic... perhaps though winning races in the game will still give you some
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A gamer doesn't think of another quarter* as simply as you describe it. Another quarter can be used for a different game, without anyone feeling punished for success. Heck, I've *NEVER* played an arcade game that let me change tracks or cars or player personalities without putting in another quarter.
And if they're uncoordinated wonks like I am, another quarter has nothing to do w
Lets Think About This a Second (Score:2, Interesting)
Disclaimer: I bought a PS2 to play Gran Turismo 4. I also bought the Logitech Racing Wheel. You could say I'm a fan.
A micropayment strategy for online games is still novel in the US; compare that to Korea, where developers have created a bustling market for addons purchased online. Many of the games eschew subscription fees in favor of allowing no-payers to play, but be significantly handicapped through game-mechanics (didn't buy that turbo boos
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If you want to make the game, sorry "simulation" realistic, cars would cost between $10,000 and $1,000,000, tracks would be $10,000,000+ and take years to "download". Oh, and you would be playing in an actual car, on an actual track... Oh look, I've just described real life.
People buy video games to do things that they could never do in real life, and have fun while they are at it. Who in real life gets to be a secret agent, military comma
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And in case you're not a wikipedia fan... Sony thinks of Gran Tourismo as a game too. [playstation.com].
Time to call it quits, don't you think?
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Hmm... I don't know where to begin. If GT becomes "Not a game", I suspect people will "Not Buy" the "Not game" and Sony will "Not make Money".
As so many people have pointed out, this will be a major commercial flop if its released. They will not recoup the cost it took to make the Game, with out a wide user base. The real racers will not be enough to make this or the PS3 work.
To have as many cars and tracks as Forza 2... (Score:5, Interesting)
Forza Motorsport 2 is going to be $49.99.
Why does Sony persist in speaking to anyone in the public or press? They just keep making things worse for themselves.
Nickle and Dime (Score:2)
Micro Payment? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Basically, instead of charging money for each small transaction (and incurring large credit card fees) you charge $20 for 2000 "points" which can then be spent, at a penny-per-point. $5.00 game, 500 points. That way, you make only one transaction (charging $20) but the consumer can use it however they want
Call the Whaaaaambulance! (Score:2, Interesting)
This may, or may not, be a good thing. Of course, having any relation to Sony automatically implies it's something horrible and evil, but there are a lot of ways this can improve the game overall.
I'd gladly throw out all the ricer cars from the latest NFS game if it meant I could have more McLaren and Ferrari cars, or that I could save a few bucks. This would also show the devs which cars are in most demand, encouraging them to make more of those. Now, thi
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Calm down people, it's just a stupid (console) game.
... I didn't know you worked for Sony Mobby?
Not trying to dig at you too hard dude, but another poster hit the nail on the head: The attitude you showed in your first sentence appears to be absolutely rampant at Sony atm.
Shame too... I used to like their stuff
Re:Call the Whaaaaambulance! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent buys a Microsoft/Sony title for their kid, grumbling how expensive it is.
The expensive XP-Plus/GranTurismo has lost the kid's attention after 3 days.
Kid tells parent they must buy more fish/cars for $100 total or it is all a waste.
Parent remembers quite well to never, ever buy anything from Microsoft/Sony.
Your mileage may vary? (Score:5, Funny)
So, a game with no capability? Perhaps they can now start selling Duke Nukem Forever... Parts sold separately, soon (no really, soon)!
Nonsense (Score:3, Insightful)
-- Kazuo Hirai Let the PS3 games Begin [com.com]
Witness the awesome entertainment value enabled by Blue-Ray games disks! No cars or courses!
"We wanted to take advantage of the storage capacity that Blu-ray offers in terms of motion pictures and other content, but most importantly, for games as well. Our decision to include the Blu-ray player from day one in all of our PlayStation 3s was the right decision and, quite honestly, the only decision we can make.
Look at the massive amounts of data that's required to provide a truly immersive gaming experience in true HD. If you only have a DVD ROM drive, which can only go up to about 9GB or so, you're going to end up with a game that's going to have two or possibly even three discs. And then you're going to have to ask consumers to swap discs out or cache all the game onto the hard drive which I think is an inconvenience--not to mention the fact that you're going to fill up a 20GB hard drive very quickly with some of these games. So trying to go without a Blu-ray drive in the PlayStation 3 really is a nonstarter."
what about kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
LMAO @ their logic (Score:2)
Links and Information (Score:2)
Consumables is where it's at (Score:2)
If this is true, the game will be free (Score:2, Insightful)
Only way... (Score:5, Insightful)
Then it's a 'free demo' that everyone can try out, even if they (like me) don't currently care for racing games.
As usual, submission takes the pessimistic view (Score:2, Interesting)
Gran Turismo: Menu Edition comes free with your PS3 Live account, which also includes $20 of credit at the Sony store. Everyone picks up a couple of tracks and a couple of cars with their credit and plays a LIMITED PREVIEW of the real new Gran Turismo game. Sony gets to showcase their online service with a popular franchise and gets free publicity
$150 for a game I already own? (Score:2)
So this news bothers me. I have a 360 and so far I'm pretty pleased with it. I'll probably pick up a Wii too. My PS3 purchase was pretty much solely based on
Sony - The Anti-Google (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously. I'd buy a game for 10-20 USD and then add in the rest for .50 to 1USD for different things, on a conditional basis:
.50 USD for a car, I want a friggin' fleet at my disposal should I decide to spend the money. This way, when I buy a sticker prices worth of addons, I have EXACTLY the game I want.
Don't give us a fnord of a game. It has to exist, and be somewhat enjoyable, for 10-20 USD.
The amount of content included and ability to progress should relate to the price of the game. For 10 bucks, I'll take a really cool demo. For 20, I better be able to find an ending to whatever game it is. It might be harder for me, but I better have the same plot progression/tournaments/etc. The cooler (addin) version of the game should never make me feel like the core game was a waste.
There should be a LOT of content available. As a consumer, the only point of this system is that I buy what I want. So all of the content out there shouldn't add up to the sticker price or slightly past. If I'm paying
This has just been my thoughts. This can be an advantage. It can ruin a lot of games, and franchises. Gamers will speak with their money, endorsing the games done well and ignoring the rest. This should definitely not be the end of free (quality) content. And if Sony (or M$) screws this up, I'm sure they'll rethink their plans within 1 holiday season.
Just get the free alternative (Score:2)
Microtransactions? (Score:2)
Summary is wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Still pretty unexciting IMHO, and I have pretty strong reservations about it working. Time will tell I guess.
Stuff that matters...a week ago (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Bad idea, but.... (Score:3)
I would _love_ to see the extensible race game that this is indirectly proposing. I want to see manufacturers releasing models of their new models that we could download and start playing with. I want to be able to pick up new tracks just like FPS players can download new maps. How about racing IndyCars round Brooklands, or WRC cars on the Targa Florio or TT Mountain Course? How about Clermont Ferrand, or the Gross Glockner hillclimb course?
GT4 showed what's possible, but didn't go far enough. THe full extensible race game, when it hopefully appears, will have some marvellous possibilities for the anorak.
that's a shame (Score:3, Insightful)
Can we still win cars after races or would that be hurting the bottom line?
I just can't see myself being able to pay for something that has always been included in the game up to this point...it just seems like a fanboy tax to me.
Sony almost has me convinced that the xbox360 is the second console I should get this time around (wii being the first). I know people will say that MS is doing the same micropayments scheme, but I really don't think they're stupid enough to try and release an empty game.
Irony. (Score:3)
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Why feign shock? (Score:2)
SONY: You're a big stupid idiot.
The DRM rootkit wasn't proof enough for you?
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I'm not calling you a liar, but I'd really like to see some sources on that
I mean, Sony took a LOT of Flak from that root kit bullshit. Had they provided the rootkit unwittingly (as you claim), I would like to think that the screw-up would have received as much coverage as the rootkit itself. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this was, indeed, known to be the case, and just wasn't widely reported (which is why I'm not calling you a liar)... but I'd really like to see sources.
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"My as yet unreleased gaming system will be better than your as yet unreleased gaming system! As will the as yet unreleased games for my as yet unreleased gaming system be better than the games for your as yet unreleased gaming system!"