How 'Games for Windows' Will Change PC Gaming 392
Joystiq has a short piece up talking with Windows (GFW) Marketing Director Kevin Unangst and PR Manager Michael Wolf about the future of the 'Games for Windows' initiative. With the launch of Vista, Microsoft is making a big push to turn PC games into a 'console-like' cohesive brand. Instead of relying on the good name of individual publishers to sell titles, Redmond is requiring that all titles use similar packaging and a distinctive logo. Along with the new gamer-centric features in Vista, and the tie-in to Xbox 360 with 'Live Anywhere', this is meant to reinvigorate the PC games market for the sometimes not-so-savvy consumer. From the article: "By making gaming a priority in the Vista experience, Microsoft is molding a powerful pairing of the Games for Windows and Xbox 360 brands. To some extent, this is based on a hope that Live Anywhere will be embraced by GFW developers and publishers, pulling Xbox Live (and your Gamertag) outside of the 'Box, in turn encouraging an unrivaled virtual community. But there are simpler touches that also spark our interest. For example, start up Vista's Minesweeper, connect your 360 controller, and enjoy a subtle rumble each time you slip up. It's the melding with the familiar that will drive new and lost consumers to the Games for Windows brand."
If they can pull it off... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:If they can pull it off... (Score:5, Insightful)
But ultimately that would just turn PC gaming into second-rate consoles.
Personally I'd like to see the exact opposite -- PC gaming that is more appropriate for a PC. For instance windowed gaming: There are a tremendous number of games that can only play in fullscreen mode, yet I like the ability to hop between applications without a time sucking, crash-inducing schism, not to mention that I like to see all of my other windows.
Windowed Gaming (Score:2)
The only game I can think of at the moment that really makes use of a windowing environment is Angband [thangorodrim.net]. Ironically, most versions use ASCII graphics.
The basic versions I've seen tend to have one 80x24 window for the map, another for the inventory, etc.
Re:If they can pull it off... (Score:4, Insightful)
However, the two are not going to be mixed anytime soon. Windowed games are going to be less performant, simply because you're going to be operating your desktop at a much higher resolution than you're going to be playing your game (unless you have an uber-card that can do 1900x1440 at 120fps, in which case your game window might not *fit* on your desktop).
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I only mention them as I expect its the kind of games the
Armadillo Run [armadillorun.com] - Physics-based puzzle game. You have to build structures with the purpose of getting an armadillo to a certain point in space.
Ballance [ballance.org] - Fight against the force of gravity! Face dizzying heights and plummeting depths. Steer a ball through
Re:If they can pull it off... (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, I think Microsoft has the right idea except they're only 10 years too late. 10 years ago, in the wake of Window's 95, everyone wanted someone to make PC gaming a more user friendly experience that didn't require endless patches and work to play games; today if people want something that is inexpensive and easily plays games they're going to buy a console without even considering a PC.
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Ah, but with the online capabilities of the latest generation of consoles, the joy of endless patching is coming to consoles too. You ain't seen nothing yet.
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Gaming 10 years ago (specifically for Windows) had online communities. Remember DOOM? Duke Nukem? The Star Wars games?
When IE4 hit the playing field, coupled with the Zone (the MS online community) it was a booming community.
This is just market spin to keep mindset so that the Windows platform is synonymous with games and gamers will not venture off elsewhere.
The casual gamer does not care what platform he
Re:If they can pull it off... (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows made my life much easier in terms of game playing. Patching games is a whole different problem and comes down to how developers handle patches. Some of them have a clue and get it right most of the time, but some of them are STILL utterly clueless. Some of them expect you to download a 500mb patch for a minor version update. Some of them expect you to pick between 8 different updates from various previous versions for a 2mb patch. Augh!
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I remember trying to game on my only 286... now that was freakin' hard.... I remember making batch files of batch files, messing withg EMS, XMS, and whatever other crazy memory BS , not to mention the CGA, EGA, VGA, stuff going on.... making boot disks for each particular game, just so it would load properly, all the while installing somethi
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Embrace and extend (Score:4, Funny)
Until that one lady captain made them emo.
oh boy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:oh boy (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:oh boy (Score:5, Funny)
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New and lost? (Score:4, Insightful)
So they have given up on all the current gamers, eh?
Besides that amazingly stupid thing to say, which I'm sure was more of a slip-of-the-tongue-while-trying-imitate-Nintendo, PC games have always been wildly different. Trying to make them somehow the same by making them all use the same box design is crazy. (Same meaning moreso than they already are, considering they are all the same shape and size, etc etc.) Requiring the logos to be the same spot, and the requirements in the same spot, etc etc will only stifle the creativity of the box designers. It will not somehow create a community for pc gamers that didn't exist before and draw in people that have been resistant to PC gaming.
Those people DO NOT CARE.
If you can build a Wiimote for PC and not get sued, THEN you can probably get some non-gamers to care. (Or another suitably wonderful and fun controller.)
Re:New and lost? (Score:5, Funny)
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-GiH
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It's easy. Stupid easy. Easier is better if the functionality dosen't suffer.
-GiH
Re:New and lost? (Score:4, Interesting)
And it costs money.
Live doesn't make sense for MMORPGs. It doesn't make sense for modders. It doesn't make sense for those of us that don't trust Microsoft. It doesn't make sense for those of us over the age of 14 seeking mature gaming companions.
It might be easy; that doesn't make it good.
Re:New and lost? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most likely, they're talking about the rapidly-growing "casual gamers" crowd.
They want a super-smooth and polished purchase, install, and play path for casual gamers. They want an experience as reliable and smooth as that of purchasing a game for a console, but for a computer with Windows installed.
On a console, the hardware is basically identical. The OS software is basically identical. The controllers are standardized, and perfectly regular.
There is never any ambiguity, in a Nintendo Wii game, about what the "(A)" button refers to, and what the "[B]" button refers to. The same on a PS2 controller, with an X, a triangle, and so on. The game developers know exactly how everything is laid out.
There are never install problems, you just put the disk in, and it works. If it doesn't work, it's because the disk is bad. There are very simple decision trees at work here.
When you're in the store, looking for the Wii games, there's no difficulty finding them. Not only are the sectioned, but all the titles have the same look and feel. Hoards of consumer psychologists have found out that Brands Work.
They want to make it possible for there to be "Windows Games," which work on Windows just like N64 games work on an N64. Platform, platform, platform.
It's a sensible strategy.
They're not talking about games that hard core gamers play. They're not talking about your community. They are talking about a super-fast growing market segment. Businesses love super-fast growing markets, it's where all the action in determining what the landscape will look like is. Things that don't grow are basically set in their patterns, and change is only made very slowly, unless the market is being torn apart by some obsoleting force.
Re:New and lost? (Score:5, Informative)
Basically, when it said "Instead of relying on the good name of individual publishers to sell titles, Redmond is requiring that all titles use similar packaging and a distinctive logo." I think it meant it. There's nothing like that in the article. Nothing.
Instead, the article is about a 'branding' scheme by Microsoft where they will certify that the game meets certain standards and functionality, and can wear their logo in return.
I'm interested in that.
I was not at all interested in MS making every single game publisher wear their logo if they want it to work on Vista, with nothing in return for said Monopoly.
I should have RTFA.
Re:New and lost? (Score:4, Interesting)
$1 per game ring any bells...
There's no more reason console developers should get it than games designed for directX.
It's going to take about 2-3 years before they'll be able to sensibly enforce it.
2-3 years after that the golden age of linux gaming can begin.
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Not exactly a golden age, but it definitely increases the chance of a given game being ported.
Re:New and lost? (Score:5, Insightful)
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In a lot of games, this requires restarting the game "for the changes to take effect ya know". Then you have to wait for the game to load (including all the stupid animations you can't always skip). Then you have to load a level (more waiting) and poke around a bit. Then you go back to the settings and start over.
Granted it doesn't happen in every game but often enough that it's a pain. And when it does
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The only thing I use windows for is games, so I'm all for an effort to improve gaming on the platform. I don't fancy the idea of an xbox live type thing though, I'm a very solitary gamer, Caesar 4 is as close as I like to get to online gaming.
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Requiring the logos to be the same spot, and the requirements in the same spot, etc etc will only stifle the creativity of the box designers.
I think the customers are more important than the box designer. If anything, it's simple design. I would like to see gaming publishers act more like CD and movie publishers: release games on Tuesdays, not whenever they ship. While a $30-$60 console/handheld game may not be an easy impulse purchase like a CD or movie, it makes sense for new games to be out on that day, and not on some unknown schedule that relies on shipping routes.
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I can see the marketing slogan now... (Score:5, Funny)
Another Tactic to Discourage Multi-Platform Titles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Another Tactic to Discourage Multi-Platform Tit (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the top reasons people cite when they reconsider moving to another platform is the unavailability of the games they like, or the reality that the games don't become available until months later. That's an advantage MS would like to preserve. Every game written for DirectX 10 / Vista rather than OpenGL / multiplatform is a step in that direction, and every effort to make OpenGL a second-class 3D API on Vista is too.
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Re:Another Tactic to Discourage Multi-Platform Tit (Score:2, Flamebait)
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Now tell me how you get retail display space for Linux games when there isn't a baseline hardware and software configuration for the home market like a PC with the Vista Premium sticker.
Customer: "Will this thing run Oblivion?"
Sales Clerk: "Go right ahead and crank everything you like up to the max. You are good to go."
Customer: "That is all I
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I do believe the parent was talking about Windows/Mac/Linux type of multi-platform, not PC/console.
I don't know if this is gonna change much... (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows games (Score:5, Insightful)
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Coder: I am not going to dumb down mouse control in my games to make it GFW compatible.
PHB: If the game is GFW compatible we will sell more so do it!
Re:Windows games (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, what true gamer would limit their FPS experience with a friggn' console controller?
I don't think MS is going to remove the ability for developers to target the keyboard and mouse, I think they just want the gamepad to work as well, which isn't too bad of an idea - giving the user a choice is always a good idea.
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Re:Windows games (Score:4, Informative)
I'm pretty sure that everyone I know, friends and family alike, would drop Windows for Linux in a heartbeat if the following two conditions were met:
1. Device manufacturers (especially printer, scanner, and other external device manufacturers) started shipping easy-to-install Linux drivers on a CD.
2. All new games ran on Linux
That's it.
They'd switch to OSX, for that matter, given that the above conditions were met for it. Satisfy those two requirements, and Windows either dies or is forced to change (and probably get MUCH cheaper) to make itself relevant.
Those two items are the only things maintaining Windows' dominance. The OS would become about as relevant as MS-DOS were it to lose those two exclusivities; that is, it would be a legacy OS. MS probably knows this, and the last thing they want is for the hardware or gaming markets to become more open to other operating systems. This move has nothing to do with anything but locking in the gaming market, no matter what PR they come up with to promote it.
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Re:Windows games (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, totallllly. Cause, you know, all those corporations that use Windows as their standardized desktop, e-mail serving, PIM, and databasing solutions, not to mention the OEM contracts that Dell, gateway, IBM, etc have with Microsoft account for like, what, 2% of total sales for Windows? Most Windows users are DEFINITELY home users and not corporate users looking for a unified office computing environment. And, pft, government DEFINITELY doesn't use windows in the majority of it's offices and computing environments. So, like, if microsoft DIDN'T focus on the gaming/home user market, they TOTALLY would fail as a company. Definitely the volume of gaming titles and factory compatibility with new hardware is the ONLY thing keeping Windows relevant in the modern business world. The ONLY thing. For sure. Definitely. you're TOTALLY right. COMPLETELY right. One Hundred and Ten Percent right. Yup.
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Um, why? That's just plain stupid. While, certainly, console-style controllers including the (IMO, poor among the console options) Xbox 360 controller, are perhaps good for some kinds of games,
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
Hey Sony, Nintendo, and Apple, Listen Up! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is your wake up call. MS intends to leverage their OS monopoly to give themselves and advantage in the gaming console market. This also provides another layer of defense around their core, OS monopoly. This is bad news for all of you, Nintendo, Sony, and Apple. They're also trying to build out DirectX tools to make the PC and Xbox a one stop shop. This is their classic strategy and it works, unless the existing players form a good, open standards based partnership. You're all influential OpenGL houses. You all have a vested interest here. Sony has already moved towards making OpenGL models key to their gaming platform. Now is the time for all of you to abandon trying to build lock-in strategies in this field and start making a concerted effort to interoperate. Build a game development toolset that makes OpenGL games on Windows, PS3, Wii, and the Mac a single entity. Beat MS at their own game. Give Blizzard and Id a call. You've got one shot at this guys, and if you fail your media enterprises are going to be easy targets. Get to it!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_ g ames [wikipedia.org] - nexuiz is ace, but you're not just limited to FPSs, get nethack aswell...
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the thing is, everyone wants to be M$ with regards to the OS and game market, they all want to lock people in so that they can't leave.
Sure they do, but if they're trying it while going up against a company that has a monopoly they can leverage they'll lose. Sony is part of a cartel and has some leverage to bring to bear. Apple has a near monopoly on iPods they can exploit (and nothing to lose from interoperability). Even so, unless they work together to take shares in a competitive market, they'll fall
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Stop comparing DirectX to OpenGL!!!! You can't!! If you are going to compare OpenGL to something compare it to Direct3D
I didn't compare the two, I made mention of them as parts of development toolkits. Neither of them constitutes such a toolkit in and of itself, but they are recognizable to the average reader, while mentioning SDL and the like and Direct3D results in a bunch of irrelevant questions.
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Oh no! Microsoft intends to leverage their OS monopoly in the game market, by introducing consistent labeling and experience for Windows games in Vista! Shit! The world's lost!
Re:Hey Sony, Nintendo, and Apple, Listen Up! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hey Sony, Nintendo, and Apple, Listen Up! (Score:4, Funny)
Coming up next on Behind the Games: the fall of Microsoft, and '99's battle with fame and amphetamines.
I'm really more of a whiskey and hallucinogens kind of guy... and I'm way too ugly to be famous. They'll attribute all my hard work motivating major corporations to someone with less facial hair.
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With the exception of Massive studios, most games that are developed licence a game engine from a third party vendor; large developers will choose the Doom 3, Unreal 3, or Source Engine while smaller studios will look for something less expensive (and most indies moving towards Torque or open source engines). The fact that Microsoft has made cross platform development for the XBox 360 and PC easier only means that Epic will require les
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With the exception of Massive studios, most games that are developed licence a game engine from a third party vendor; large developers will choose...
This is true, but not all games use one of the cross-platform engines, and not all games can run on an existing engine. This move does not target existing players in the market, most of whom presumably have the sense to maintain portability. This targets new development shops that want to get started on the cheap. Every year there are dozens of mostly unsucc
Re:Hey Sony, Nintendo, and Apple, Listen Up! (Score:5, Insightful)
You must be on crack if you think that Microsoft's push of DirectX will sway the console wars.
Yeah, people have said the same thing about other markets they embraced.
Game studios which put out multi-platform games are not interested in abandoning their multi-platform market in favour of the oh-so-lucritive[sic] PC and XBox market.
MS already owns a lot of those game studios. They will buy more as they need to. And they don't need to change the minds of entrenched players, if they can win over the new development shops. Already a lot of games are developed with DirectX tools, simply because the tools and skills are cheap and easy. Some of those new companies move on to make good, multi-platform games, but some have enough important people with a DirectX-only skill set that they stay with it out of momentum. Every one of them, is just that many more Windows/xbox exclusive titles that contributes to their win. Maybe it won't happen with the Xbox360, or even the next generation of consoles, but it only needs to hit critical mass once, and then it is theirs.
There is much more money to be made in selling the same game on numerous platforms instead of only 2.
There are different types of costs. There is overall cost and their is up front investment cost. If a new company wants to make a game and they can cheaply use existing DirectX talent and kit the Xbox and Windows, they'll do it. Hell, a whole lot of small time companies already do so and all they hit is the Windows market. Unless they have a toolset that competes and lets them hit a similar number of end users for similar or lower upfront cost, this number will slowly grow.
The only explanation for your reasoning is that it will simplify development - but the only one who is having trouble with their dev kits (at this point) is Sony, so your argument goes out the window.
Game developers always complain about dev kits, for every platform. Anything that makes it easier, or cheaper in the short run is a real competitor. This is a proven market strategy and it will be benefitting MS. The only question is how much will it benefit them and will it be countered.
Considering how few consumers want Vista (Score:3, Interesting)
True, 2007 will not be the Year of Desktop Linux, but that's only because most people who won't buy Vista have no need to replace their old computers yet. Most of us will be moving games onto Mac or consoles, and abandoning the Windows desktop or laptop.
Re:Considering how few consumers want Vista (Score:5, Funny)
Changes little (Score:5, Informative)
The inclusion of a distinctive logo doesn't change the need to turn the box over and read the fine print for "required" and "reccomended" hardware to play the game. Console gaming works because a Wii is a Wii is a Wii.
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Re:Changes little (Score:4, Interesting)
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060529-6934
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/16/vista_computers_ to_have_5_performance_tiers/ [tgdaily.com]
http://www.microsoftmonitor.com/archives/2006/05/v ista_system_ra.html [microsoftmonitor.com]
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Great live needed for on line play (Score:4, Informative)
NO MODS when playing online.
Being forced to use M$ servers for on line play would be a bad thing.
ID software games may be forced to drop mac, linux, and opengl If they want to be part of this.
"Gaming for Windows" disingenuous (Score:4, Informative)
FTFA: "Computer Gaming World was also renamed as Games For Windows to help drive Microsoft's new brand."
Also, it's good to know there's another gaming rag I can safely ignore.
In summation, I really enjoy watching people I don't trust announce what they'll do to shove things I don't want down my throat.
I can see another advantage to this (Score:2)
Maybe with this change the EB games near me will have more then just a small off-cente
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Monopoly Abuse Again (Score:4, Insightful)
The first thing that comes to mind... (Score:2)
PS3 and linux? (Score:2)
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Spend $2K to play console games? (Score:2, Insightful)
Has M$ done something to prevent a USB mouse and keyboard from being plugged into the XBox360? Why isn't the future of PC gaming a console with a mouse and keyboard?
I love it! (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, finally, I feel vindicated. "Games for Windows" games will get all kinds of features that won't work on non-"Games for Windows" games.
Hopefully, this will be make OpenGL, OpenAL, SDL, etc. . . look even better (as they've been rapidly improving of late) in comparison to the DirectX suite of APIs.
Why feel the need to hate Microsoft so much? (Score:5, Interesting)
Terms: Unconditional Surrender (Score:3, Insightful)
is there anything that Microsoft could do as a business that would ever please you? Honestly?
To paraphrase the animatrix: Surrender your code and you will enjoy a new life of the mind. You have no choice.
While I think that the only way for them to prevent a repeat of past abuses is to GPL their code, most people would be happy if they would just quit trying to FUCK EVERYONE. You know, stop threatening to sue everyone, shoving formats onto media, quit the drive to "trusted computing" where everyone mu
Re:Why feel the need to hate Microsoft so much? (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has destroyed the market for Linux by disallowing Microsoft OEMs from shipping other operating systems (SEE BeOS, for instance). Microsoft fucks over other people, including their customers, just to maintain dominance.
That's why I hate Microsoft. If they played fairly, I wouldn't mind their incompetence and terrible products so much. But, since that's they only way they can survive, I guess I shouldn't hold it against them.
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Minesweeper with a gamepad? pass. (Score:2)
Granted I haven't been in the PC gaming scene for a while but I thought that the main draw was things like lots of RAM, decent graphics cards, a hard driver, and its unique keyboard/mouse controllers. Sinc
Hardware Rating (Score:5, Interesting)
Eep (Score:2)
Familiar (Score:3, Interesting)
"Games for Windows."
Looks like they're really the same thing. And the summary is wrong. Redmond isn't forcing anything. If you want to have the GFW brand on your package you have to follow a set of rules, just like Designed For Windows 95. And I can still release a game for the PC that is whatever I want rules be damned. I won't get the GFW banner but MS can't stop me from releasing my game.
Heard this from MS before (Score:2)
Live Anywhere, eh? Didn't we hear a similar marketing warcry from them a couple years ago?
Oh, right: "Plays for Sure."
Hopefully this'll play out just as well for them.
Keyboard & Mouse for Xbox360 (Score:3, Insightful)
How will it be "required"? (Score:4, Informative)
The PC platform is not like the consoles in that it is not generally possible for the operating system vendor, Microsoft in this case, to exclude third parties from writing software for the platform. This has both positive and negative consequences as the experience of Microsoft has demonstrated (i.e. third parties producing poor quality software which gives Microsoft Windows a bad name while at the same time giving more software choices on Microsoft Windows). I suppose that you could invent some logo scheme like "playsforsure" or "designed for windows" or "games for windows" or whatever and not allow use of the logo if the vendor will not play by the rules (combined with a FUD advertising campaign warning consumers about "untrusted" non-logo software), but how does this in any way help the consumer? People buy games because they hear about them from a friend or read about them in a gaming magazine, not because the game has some "games for windows" logo. The only place that I can see this making any difference is when grandma is at Walmart trying to purchase a "game" for her grandson and chooses "math blasters 2007" because it is a "game for windows" and it is educational so it has to be good right? Wrong.
reinvigorate the PC games market my ass... (Score:3, Interesting)
Case in point (this experience is from 01, 2006. Maybe Microsoft has changed since then),
Atari ships DX9 with Roller Coaster Tycoon Gold. It won't work under Windows 98SE/2000 with the latest Nvidia card without DX9c. Atari states the can't provide the update, you need it from Microsoft. Microsoft refuses to let you download the DX9c update because its WGA spyware thinks my original Win2000/Win98 systems are stolen. I've tried it several different boxes with different (unregistered) store bought copies of Win2k and Win98SE. All failed the WGA spyware check.
Thats OK though, all our new kid games are for the PS2/Gamecube (and Wii soon). All the new purchased PC (PC means personal computer for the Microsoft folks) games are for Linux, I bought 8 games this year.
So much for Win32/DirectX being compatible accross different Microsoft platforms.
And Microsoft wonders why thier entertainment division revenue is flat. Its called treating your customers like shit.
Enjoy,
MS and Vista can kiss my shiny red babboon ass (Score:3, Interesting)
Gettng a PC rigged out for games is kinda pricey, every year or two I gotta get a new video card or sit in the back of the bus, and they're still not as fun as most console games. PC games tend to be solitary. Even when you're playing with others, you're alone. (Yes, I'm discounting the lan party, due to the microscopic size of that subculture)
I'll just do without the games I can't play on a console.
Anyway, this coming from somebody who has already spent far far too much of my life and money on PC gaming.
Microsoft is entitled to leverage its power. (Score:3, Insightful)
But what has the open source community or other companies done all these years regarding gaming? is there an open source gaming library that covers all aspects of game programming and is cross-platform and easy to use? in other words, is there a Qt for gaming? nope, there is not. As there is not a simple yet powerful operating system (Linux is powerful but not simple), a powerful Office Package without bugs (Open Office has quite a lot of them) etc.
Please don't tell me that it is the monopoly of Microsoft that determines the success of its products. It is simply the quality of the experience: Microsoft products offer the right quality for the right people (system admins many not be them though). Open source can do it; take Firefox for example: great open source success, because the product is of very high quality.
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You need a pci / pci-e card with the xbox cpu on it.
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MS isnt forcing them to pay a logo fee. This is about simplifying hardware requirements. If you RTFA you will see that this is a system where your pc is given a ranking out of five stars that denotes what its capabilities are. That way when you go to the store you dont have to know anything about how much memory you have, what video card you have, the size of your L2 cache, etc.
This helps game developers a great deal because it means that people can buy games with confidence that