PlayStation 3 Launches in EU/AU

stpk4 wrote to mention some articles discussing the launch of the PlayStation 3 in Europe; London saw Phil Harrison handing out HD sets, while Microsoft's party barge and lackluster crowds marked the Parisian launch. The Australian launch went well but also saw disappointing crowds, with media, security, and store officials outnumbering the customers for much of the event. Eurogamer has a comprehensive list of launch titles, for those of you in the new territories thinking of picking up a console.

Whee

[SDuensin]

(crickets)

Re:

[YojimboJango]

(more crickets)

So.... how bout the weather.

Re:

[VJ42]

What's not mentioned in TFA is that MS were handing out Chairs [bbc.co.uk] in London as well as their stunt in Paris. [insert oblig. Ballmer joke here]

Seems like they were doing their best to ruin Sony's night.:

At the Virgin Megastore in London's Oxford Street, the software giant handed out chairs to those queuing that had a website address printed on them.

Anyone visiting the webpage saw an Xbox 360 branded site that "welcomes" Sony to the next generation and chides the electronics giant for being "late". Microsoft's Xbox 360 launched in late 2005.

I knew Sony was desparate...

[CaseM]

But not this [thegamewars.com] desparate...

Re:

[Pluvius]

If only the Japanese were as bigoted and racist, they would have many cases of American mispronunciations of Japanese words, but then again we don't even try because it's beneath us.

You're kidding [wikipedia.org], right?

Rob

Re:

[CaseM]

I'm quite sure the Japanese have plenty of in-jokes to make fun of us Westerners. And, yes, I totally screwed up "desperate". Oh well.

P.S. From Help/About:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.11) Gecko/20070312 Firefox/1.5.0.11

P.P.S. Fuck you

Folding

[cxreg]

Coinciding with the EU and AU release was the new firmware, including the PS3 Folding@home client. This has caused the project to explode, with PS3's putting up more than 20x the performance of a Windows PC [gizmodo.com]

Re:

[Rycross]

Thats not surprising, considering cell is specifically designed to excel at the sort of calculations involved with protein folding. Its not indicative of the overall power of the system, or how well that power relates to a PC at all. Saying that a PS3 has 20x the performance of a Windows PC based on these numbers is ridiculous.

Re:Folding

[AArmadillo]

Indeed. To put it in perspective, the average GPU client is doing twice as well as the average PS3 client.

'Overall' power?

[Funk_dat69]

And what exactly is the 'overall' power of a system?

Performance always has a context (despite what some marketers will have you believe) and in this context, yes, the Cell in the PS3 really is that much more powerful than an x86 chip.

Re:

[Rycross]

For a gaming system? How well it plays games. Basically, how well it performs the tasks it was created for.

Yes its more powerful in that context, but thats not what I was arguing. I was arguing that you can't extrapolate the numbers out to say that, overall, the PS3 is 20 times more powerful than the PC, which is what it seemed like the top poster was trying to do.

I doubt that the PS3 could beat a Core 2 Duo in a highly branching area, like AI.

Re:

[BarneyL]

It's not really 20x the performance of a PC. If you look at the per processor performance when using a GPU to use the work the PS3 doesn't look so good.
The conclusion I would make is that any PC that the average gaming PC has a GPU with double the performance of the PS3.

Re:

[cxreg]

That's a pretty flawed conclusion. The client won't even run on most GPUs.

Re:

[BarneyL]

No worse a conclusion than the parent post's. I would have thought that a GPU is by far the best part of a PC to make a fair comparison against the PS3 with.
The F@H web site certainly seems to agree http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html [stanford.edu] it links between their information on the GPU and PS3 versions stating it's using the same technology behing both clients. The client is admittedly exclusive to ATI cards (X1600, X1800, and X1900 class GPU's) but I would assume that Nvidia's offerings would offer similar

In my store...

[Kazzahdrane]

we sold about 26 machines at our midnight launch this morning. That was only about a third of our pre-orders, and Sony got us 120 machines for day one. I know everyone's heralding the death of Sony's gaming division these days, but they've done a fantastic job with getting stock out there to stores (admittedly they've had months to put this in motion). I won't be buying one myself but I think Sony are starting to turn their fortunes around.

Just as long as they don't let any of their execs do anymore interviews.

Re:In my store...

[jandrese]

Of course it's easy to ship enough stock when your demand is low.

Re:

[Rycross]

120 units is a lot more than they shipped to American stores though. Around these parts, stores got between 20 and 30. Although one Circuit City in the 'burbs got 100.

Re:

[powerlord]

True, I was in Best Buy on Monday and today (Friday). They have a stack of PS3s and XBox360s by the checkout area (noticeably more 360s than PS3). In the past 5 days, assuming they haven't restocked the piles have both shrunk, the PS3 pile by about 16, the 360 pile by about 8 (none of those missing were 'core' units). (for the record there were originally 26 PS3s and 46 360s, 4 of which were "core" units).

I realize that this is hardly scientific, but it I found it interesting on a number of fronts.

1) yes

Re:

[Rycross]

Well I was talking launch numbers, but yes, I agree mostly with what you've said. Although based on last month's NDP numbers, 360 was outselling PS3.

Re:

[eln]

if "piles of units just sitting there" then the 360 is in deep trouble, worse than the PS3.

The problem with this argument is the timing. I would certainly expect to be able to buy a console at any store whenever I wanted to once it had been out for more than a year. When a system has just been launched, and was launched amid all sorts of press about the production problems they were having, seeing piles of them in stores is a little dismaying.

Having said that though, in the stores here locally, I can usua

Re:

[Wdomburg]

Ramping production would mean getting every one of their suppliers to ramp production, tooling more production lines, training more workers, building out QA and testing facilities, blah, blah, etc, etc. You don't make that kind of investment when demand is tapering (604k units in December, 436k in January, 335k in February). By time time you have the additional capacity, you don't need it.

Re:

[Wdomburg]

Break it down by day and you get a more accurate picture - 19483/day in December, 14065/day in January, 11943/day in February. Look at Japan's weekly figures - first week of January was 195331 units, then 93708, 86395, 83754... Hasn't broken 80k in a week once since January. They were even outsold by the PSP for a couple of weeks.

The Wii may not be readily found on shelves yet (demand started significantly higher than supply, afterall) but it's hardly unobtainable. The few people I knew who set out to bu

Re:

[rbarreira]

I know you posted several cautionary expressions throughout your post, but that "assuming they haven't restocked the piles" assumption is a big one!

Re:

[powerlord]

You're correct, thats why I mentioned the assumptions I was working from when I made the observation. :)

I honestly don't know how often they restock those displays, but the holes missing from the display were very obvious.

Its true that they could easily be restocking the displays every evening, but I would imagine that would make the observation valid for the day, instead of for the week.

Re:

[DrXym]

So basically some people are prepared to damn them if they can't get enough stock to meet demand and others are prepared to damn them if they do.

Is there any way they can possibly win?

Re:

[Raenex]

Is there any way they can possibly win?

Yes, they can meet their sales targets.

Re:

[TeraCo]

I wasn't particularly impressed with the PS3, but the fact that it didn't sell out on release makes me cringe a bit. Consoles run on belief as much as games for the first 6 months, and I'm reluctant to buy a console that doesn't look like it's going to have a long term installbase. (Sega, I'm looking at you)

Re:

[heinousjay]

The US launch demand for the PS3 was artificially increased by the eBay scalpers. Once they started taking a bath and returning them, it was altogether fair to say the console was generally available. Not in the quantities on hand in Europe, of course, but definitely enough that people who care can get one.

Re:

[BarneyL]

Looking at the PS3 listings on ebay.co.uk there were quite a few attempted scalpers over here.
The good news is that most of them aren't making sales. Those PS3s on auctions with no reserve are going for around retail prices.

Re:

[seebs]

Well, compared to the original sales, that's not so great; I mean, yeah, it's a fair number of units, but it's not much for a "hotly anticipated launch".

Re:

[MotorMachineMercenar]

Heh. I was doing the rounds of gaming shops here in Holland the day before the launch. Two stores said with bold faces that they are "rare" in their ability to guarantee delivery if I pre-order. What does that mean? The demand is so small that they don't have enough pre-orders. In any case, I was in the shops figuring out whether to get one of the two competitors. Only after one of the clerks mentioned PS3 is released tomorrow I found out about it. Played some off-road racing game which was beautiful but sl

Re:

[Kazzahdrane]

If you're desperate to buy a console right now, I'd say go for the 360. Whether that would change 12 months down the line I don't know, but I certainly don't see MS suddenly falling away in this generation due to the long headstart they'd had over Sony and the large consumer base they've built up for the 360.

PS3

[ObiWanStevobi]

Well, now having a Xbox 360 and Wii, and a lot of playing time on thePS3, I'd have to say the PS3 gets a worse rap than it deserves. Well, at least it doesn't deserve the ire it is shown. They could have been more competetive by making the Blu-Ray optional (which there is little use for as of yet). As far as the interface goes, the PS3 is a bit more versatile than the 360, but the 360 is much easier. Combined with a PSP, it can do some pretty sweet stuff. I hear you can do some sweet stuff on the 360 if you have a Windows Media Center PC as well, but I don't know and won't find out.

The PS3 is quieter than the Xbox, and has a much better hard drive setup. However, for all it's much advertised power, I certainly haven't noticed it. It could be the games, but nothing I have seen would lead me to believe it is more powerful. Which, I guess, brings up games. So far PS3 is far behind the 360 in games. And that's saying alot with the 360 not having a super line-up yet.

But, I'm still waiting for my Xbox back from MS after the dvd drive crapped out. Just like the original xbox, the DVD drives seem to be good for about a year, while my original PS2 drive is still working.

Anyway, for the money, I'd take a 360 and a Wii over the PS3 anyday. The 360 for playing alone & online, and the Wii for when friends are over.

Re:

[Stormwatch]

Well, now having a Xbox 360 and Wii, and a lot of playing time on thePS3, I'd have to say the PS3 gets a worse rap than it deserves. Well, at least it doesn't deserve the ire it is shown.

The bad rap is not because of the hardware itself. It's about Sony's behaviour as a whole: rootkit-infected CDs, exploding laptop batteries, general arrogance, all that crap. Also, some fanboys^W hardcore gamers may be resentful regarding the Dreamcast (destroyed by the PS2's bullshit-filled hype) and Working Designs (ruin

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi]

Well, their most direct competitor is MS, who have done worse in one move (charging money for Windows ME) than anything Sony has done. So if the hardware is to be shunned due to the corporate policies of it's maker, the Wii is the only logical choice (as far as console gaming is concerned, btw - disclaimer to avoid the flaming from PC-only gamers). But the Wii just doesn't have the power and graphics to satify the gaming population. So if corporate policy is the basis, I then really don't see how Sony de

Re: Wii is plenty powerful...

[trdrstv]

But the Wii just doesn't have the power and graphics to satify the gaming population.

Sure it does. In fact it already has about half the install base of the 360 and more than twice that of the PS3. Remember that if the 'most powerful machine' wins the race, Sony would never have been a contender. People seemed pretty content with their PS1/PS2's despite there being more powerful systems competing with them.

Re:

[Pluvius]

How many Wii owners would identify themselves as part of the "gaming population"? Moreover, how many Wii-owning gamers are still satisfied with the console now that the hysteria over it is starting to wear off? The sales of the Wii don't really say much about gamers' tastes, especially since they're a mere fraction of the sales of the PS2, or even of the XBox and GameCube.

As for your argument concerning the PS2's processing power, I would submit that the PS2 wasn't nearly as weak as the Wii is by comparis

Re:

[trdrstv]

As for your argument concerning the PS2's processing power, I would submit that the PS2 wasn't nearly as weak as the Wii is by comparison.

The gap narrows considerably when using composite cables (480i) like 83% of the USA (and the US has the best rate of HD adoption). Gears of War looks great in 720p. I'm sure Lair will wow in 1080p. If you plug these into an SDTV they still will look nice, but not that much nicer than say, Ninja Gaiden Black.

HD is the future, but it isn't the present. It will still t

Re:

[Pluvius]

The gap narrows considerably when using composite cables (480i) like 83% of the USA

That rate is shrinking rapidly, and most of the people who don't have HDTVs also are not in the market for new game consoles. In a couple of years most gamers will have HDTVs and use them with their PS3s and/or 360s. Nintendo simply isn't looking long-term, and that is a big mistake.

Rob

Re:

[trdrstv]

The gap narrows considerably when using composite cables (480i) like 83% of the USA

That rate is shrinking rapidly, and most of the people who don't have HDTVs also are not in the market for new game consoles. In a couple of years most gamers will have HDTVs and use them with their PS3s and/or 360s. Nintendo simply isn't looking long-term, and that is a big mistake.

IMHO, Nintendo is looking long term, It's Sony and MS that are looking short term on their systems (being the early adopters). In 4-6 yea

Re:

[Pluvius]

In 4-6 years you will see the Wii HD

Four to six years? You mean long after the other two consoles have already left it in the dust? Furthermore, this "gameplay mechanic" you speak of has already been partially implemented in the PS3, and if it's successful at all will surely be a part of the PS4 and probably the next XBox as well. Sony's been copying Nintendo's innovations and making them more viable for the past decade, and that's not going to change in the future.

Rob

Re:

[LKM]

Four to six years? You mean long after the other two consoles have already left it in the dust?

No, he means "just in time with most people moving to HDTVs." There's really no reason to think that the Wii would not still be a success in four year's time. Two letters: DS.

Re:

[Raenex]

Nintendo simply isn't looking long-term, and that is a big mistake.

Yeah, they're crying all the way to the bank.

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

Actually Nintendo is looking long term, their strategy is dead on, consoles are commodities, and hence they have to be cheap (have you read the interview where they wanted to get the price below 100$) you do not need an uber machine doing everything, the pc already does that way better than any console can do it, and a pc can be found in every house. HDTV does not make sense yet because the market saturation is not good enough, so what can you do, build a machine which is cheap and a no brainer to pick up,

Re:

[Pluvius]

consoles are commodities

Says who? Consoles have never been commodities, and the fact that Nintendo is differentiating its console from the other two with controller gimmickry proves that it doesn't really believe that consoles are commodities either. In fact, it's farther from the commodity concept than the other two fairly generic consoles are.

If you simply meant that consoles should be really cheap, well, I would like for the current consoles to be really cheap, but cheapness is far from being a part of

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

Actually the PS1 and PS2 became successes at a time when when they reached commodity pricepoints. Bascially every console there is which was successful was rather cheapish, the ones failed always were the expensive ones, sorry, but consoles are commodities and have to be cheaper than a PC.

As for the long term plan. HDTV will have a significant market saturation by 2010, 2011. For sony it made sense to integrate HDTV they wanted to use it as a vehicle to push blue ray into the market, for Microsoft it mad

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

Ah I forgot, about the cheap cash in games, the console which sells the most gets the biggest push, from what I personally expect is that if the wii stays on top until 2009 (it will be surpassed I am sure, but it has very good years ahead until HDTV really becomes an issue, and even then the numbers should keep it alive) I wont get quick cash in ports, it will be more along the lines that the efforts will be reduced for the XBOX and PS3 in that time and those will get quick ports with higher resolution text

Re:

[LKM]

Actually Nintendo is looking long term, their strategy is dead on, consoles are commodities

That would mean that they are replacable, and that the brand doesn't matter. I'd argue the opposite: Brand matters, because of exclusive games. The Wii still comes out ahead: While the PS3 and 360 are kind of commodities in relation to each other (eventually, there will be almost no exclusive games on either console), the Wii isn't. It's unique. This is - in my opinion - the reason why the PS3 is failing: It costs

Re:

[senatorpjt]

the reason why the PS3 is failing: It costs a lot more than the 360, but doesn't really offer anything to justify the price.

Well, the fact that the 360 costs $50/year for online play (meaning it'll end up being even more expensive than the PS3) was enough to justify it to me.

Re:

[LKM]

That's a good point. I don't play online games, though, especially not those where you have to, you know... communicate. So I just forgot about that. OTOH, the 50 bucks a year actually get you a mature, well implemented online gaming service. It's unclear how the PS3 online gaming stuff will work out.

Re:

[Wdomburg]

What makes you think most people without HDTV aren't in the market for new consoles? Most of the people I know who've bought consoles recently don't have HD. Hell, one is currently using a trash-picked 19".

Re:

[Pluvius]

Sorry, I should've been more clear. Beyond the fact that most people who don't have HDTVs aren't gamers at all, by "new game consoles" I meant consoles that are actually new, as opposed to the Wii which is just a gussied-up GameCube with a new controller. Most people who were willing to pay $600 for a PS3 either already have an HDTV or will be getting one very soon. As for the 360, I'd say the vast majority of owners will get an HDTV to play it on in a couple of years at most. Remember that not only are

Re:

[Wdomburg]

Beyond the fact that most people who don't have HDTVs aren't gamers at all.

There's only about 20 million households that own HDTVs. There were about 77 million consoles sold last generation. Are you saying that 57 million non-gamers bought consoles or that every gamer bought almost four consoles (and at least two PS2s)?

by "new game consoles" I meant consoles that are actually new, as opposed to the Wii which is just a gussied-up GameCube with a new controller.

Ah, redefining terms in your favour. Gotcha.

M

Re:

[LKM]

(...) most people who don't have HDTVs aren't gamers at all (...) the Wii which is just a gussied-up GameCube with a new controller (...)

So, that's how you avoid cognitive dissonance now :-)

Looks like it's time to start facing facts, now that the PS3 has failed in Europe as well.

Most people who were willing to pay $600 for a PS3 either already have an HDTV or will be getting one very soon

So you're saying that the target audience of the PS3 is really small, which makes the PS3 a success because it has successfully targeted that small audience?

As for the 360, I'd say the vast majority of owners will get an HDTV to play it on in a couple of years at most

...which will be a good time for Nintendo to introduce Wii2, still at 250 US$, but with graphic capabilities rivalling the 360.

Re:

[grumbel]

### HD is the future, but it isn't the present.

Do you have a computer monitor? If so then you have a HD-TV capable device. One doesn't need a 42" Plasma TV for thousands of dollar to make use of HD output, VGA cable for XBox360 will just do the same. Beside even without HD you still profit from a clear picture due to anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering and plain and simple more detailed and better looking scenery and models. Now little old granny playing some Wii Sport tennis might not care about the diffe

Re:

[Rycross]

Look I love my Wii, but the PS2-GameCube gab is a lot smaller than the PS3-Wii gap, graphics wise. It may not matter now, but can we say the same thing in 2 or 3 years? And limited processing power doesn't just effect graphics. You're also looking at weaker AI, less enemies, less physics, etc.

I think Wii will do well, and it was worth the $250, but I'm doubtful of its staying power.

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi]

The Wii is fun, but It can't pull off a game like Oblivion, where half the experience is the visual world and characters around you drawing you into the game. It also doesn't have the power for an very immersive environment for an FPS. Although it is possible for a game to have weak graphics and still be more fun, thats up to the game developers. I'd rather have a syatem where they can have the potential to do both well, rather than one that can only do one of them.

Re:

[trdrstv]

The Wii is fun, but It can't pull off a game like Oblivion, where half the experience is the visual world and characters around you drawing you into the game. It also doesn't have the power for an very immersive environment for an FPS. Although it is possible for a game to have weak graphics and still be more fun, thats up to the game developers. I'd rather have a syatem where they can have the potential to do both well, rather than one that can only do one of them.

So by this logic games like Ninja Gaid

Re:

[KDR_11k]

It also doesn't have the power for an very immersive environment for an FPS.

Depends on your definition. I found Metroid Prime back on the Gamecube plenty immersive.

Re:

[Pluvius]

So if the hardware is to be shunned due to the corporate policies of it's maker, the Wii is the only logical choice

Since you mentioned Me, which surely has no relevance today, I'm assuming that you're saying that any major mistake that a corporation has ever made would disqualify it. In that case, you wouldn't be getting a Wii either; Nintendo made decisions that were far dumber back when it was in the position of dominance than Sony has.

Rob

Re:

[Rycross]

Nintendo was fined for price fixing [bbc.co.uk], and they generally had bad relationships with their developers back in the SNES days. It seems like Nintendo has largely reformed, though.

Re:

[Pluvius]

Also, some fanboys^W hardcore gamers may be resentful regarding the Dreamcast (destroyed by the PS2's bullshit-filled hype)

Yes, I'm sure that rampant piracy, poor marketing, and the lack of good games after launch had nothing to do with it.

What's sad is that in the likely event that the Wii becomes thought of as a joke like the Dreamcast in a couple of years, people like you will be blaming the PS3, 360, and stoopid sheeple gamers for it instead of placing the blame where it belongs.

Oh, and WD was ruined by

Re:

[Rycross]

Seconded. Sega sunk their reputation by rapid-fire releasing addons for the Genesis, then screwing releasing the Saturn shortly thereafter. Saturn was a 2D oriented system in a transition to 3d. Yes it could do 3d, but it was easier for Playstation. The main result was Saturn not doing well, and that reputation carried over to the Dreamcast. No, Sony marketing didn't help, but the Dreamcast was already in trouble by the time it was announced.

And yes, I am a Dreamcast owner. Its an awesome system, and

Re:

[The_Sock]

I don't see the wii being thought of as a joke in a couple of years. As long as the games keep coming for the system, which they appear to be, it's price point will keep it in millions of entertainment units for a long time coming. For anyone who has a second console, it will most likely be a wii, whether the other console is the PS3 or the xbox360. I can see it selling more then they other two consoles, while the buzz in the gaming world will always be about the next big game for Xbox360 or PS3. I mean, wh

Re:

[Doctor_Jest]

I think the only way that Nintendo can keep the momentum going is to avoid the "game drought" that plagued the Gamecube. Any huge delay will be a repeat of last gen's mistakes. I think they know this (I've read interviews where the brass admitted games need to keep flowing) and with the Virtual Arcade (albeit a slightly higher priced alternative to XBLA and PS Store, but with more titles, IIRC) I think they're on the way to alleviating the problems of the Gamecube. That being said... I can't seem to find

Re: VC vs. XBLA....

[trdrstv]

the Virtual Arcade (albeit a slightly higher priced alternative to XBLA and PS Store, but with more titles

I wouldn't consider the VC a 'Higher Priced alternative' to XBLA. Every VC game goes from $5-$10. XBLA starts at $5 and can go up to $30 (if you want the full game and modes of Luminies Live for example.)

One thing that has me baffled (as a Wii60 owner myself) is that XBLA has many more 'Casual friendly' games than Nintendo's VC. The Wii as a system is much more 'casual friendly' than the 360 but

Re:

[Doctor_Jest]

I probably didn't state it precisely enough... I meant that the VC is charging a bit more for "retro" than is XLBA... that I can see from the outside... Maybe it all works out, but the concept still is more "retro" for VC than XBLA (even though XBLA has quite a few retro titles...)

Are prices are always towards the $10 range for later consoles on the VC, correct? Funny thing is, the mini "retro" titles for the XBLA are not always welcomed (at least in the forums I've read) like Paperboy and the like... Root

Re:

[trdrstv]

Are prices are always towards the $10 range for later consoles on the VC, correct?

Actually no. The VC priging goes like this:

Nes games = $5

TurboGraphix 16 = $6 (to be fair 1 game is $8, but they combined 2 games into one)

SNES/Genesis = $8

N64 = $10

The Selection also favors the cheaper titles, simply by availability. There are far fewer N64 titles than NES, or Turbo16 ones...

XBLA has most of their games fall in the range of 400 - 800 points ($5 - $10), but there are $15 ones and if you got flee

Re:

[grumbel]

### As long as the games keep coming for the system, which they appear to be,

The games are already a huge issue on the Wii, just look at what is out now and what will be out till the end of the year, short summary: not much. Half the game are ports from last years 'last-gen' games, Tiger Woods, Prince Of Persia, Zelda (delay doesn't change the fact), etc. This can't go on forever, since last-gen won't be there for much longer. Once the last-gen is dead the Wii will have a real issue, since it just doesn't h

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

The bad rap is not because of the hardware itself. It's about Sony's behaviour as a whole: rootkit-infected CDs, exploding laptop batteries, general arrogance, all that crap. Also, some fanboys^W hardcore gamers may be resentful regarding the Dreamcast (destroyed by the PS2's bullshit-filled hype) and Working Designs (ruined by SCEA's retarded anti-2D policies).

Yup... that's pretty much why I hate them (particularly the Dreamcast part). The PS3 isn't a bad machine, perhaps a bit overpriced, due to the inc

Re:

[Doctor_Jest]

When the games grow to the size of multiple DVDs (isn't Blue Dragon 3 DVD's on the 360?), you'll probably enjoy the capacity of the Blu-Ray disc.

Sure it's overkill now, but at least there's room to grow in storage... We seem to (as a collective group) spend lots of time wondering why something admittedly far-reaching is put in a device when there's little use for it initially (and sometimes drives up cost)... but as time goes on, we get a better perspective.

I hate Sony too. But the PS3 is a good product.

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

When the games grow to the size of multiple DVDs (isn't Blue Dragon 3 DVD's on the 360?), you'll probably enjoy the capacity of the Blu-Ray disc.

Let me put it this way: the extra $200-$300 cost added to the console, the reduced read speed leading to longer load times, and having to wait nearly a whole year for it to arrive... I'd much rather just switch discs on a few select games... that's just me though. If this were a feature on a car it'd be a heated cup holder, nice to have but not exactly worth it if

Re:

[Doctor_Jest]

I think the load times of the Blu-Ray (for DVD based and CD based games) are phenomenal. I've not noticed any significant difference between the load times between my 360 and PS3.

I would have to disagree with the characterization of the PS1 (which was originally supposed to be a joint venture between Nintendo and Sony) It moved Nintendo out of the "we're going to tell you that you like carts (hence the N64), and it moved Sega "drop this accessory and let's move on!" out of its abandonment of console lines

Re:

[The_Sock]

I don't know, I really hate optional hardware on a console. If you develop games for a console, you should know what hardware is in it. You should only have to worry about that one piece of hardware (per vendor), not any of this stupid core, plus, platinum, xtreme, wtf, models of a console. I personally believe, from a developers point of view, you can do more if all the neat gee-wiz options are there in every console.

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi]

Good point, although DVD vs. Blu-Ray isn't nearly the hurdle to developers as hard disk vs. no hard disk is. I agree in thinking that excluding the hard drive should not be an option, but I think the optical disk drive type being optional is more benign. I do see your point though.

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

The differences offered in the hardware shouldn't make a difference in the game programing.

On the PS3... the differences are:
-20GB of hard drive space or 60GB of hard drive space
---Doesn't make a difference how much space you have as long as you have enough free.
-The inclusion or exclusion of a WiFi adapter
---Doesn't make a difference since you're just piping data through whatever connection is set in the dashboard
-The inclusion or exclusion of legacy PS controller ports
---Only used for Backwards c

Re:

[fistfullast33l]

-One includes a hard drive the other doesn't
---The hard drive is removable and games are required to run with or without it... so there really is no difference to developers

Nice way to gloss over the problem for developers - do we or do we not require a hard drive. That's a choice that could have been hard to make if the gimped system sold just as well or even a large percentage of the better system. Then you have to make the choice of whether it's better to make a more technically impressive game by cach

Re:

[trdrstv]

Nice way to gloss over the problem for developers - do we or do we not require a hard drive. That's a choice that could have been hard to make if the gimped system sold just as well or even a large percentage of the better system.

No 360 is gimped by not having a HDD. Some people didn't even sign up for Live Silver, so if you can't even access the free downloadable content, why would you need a HDD?

Then you have to make the choice of whether it's better to make a more technically impressive game by cac

Re:

[Pluvius]

No 360 is gimped by not having a HDD.

Well, besides the fact that you get no backwards compatibility, have to get a memory card to save games, and even then don't get access to XBox Live downloadables. Not to mention the fact that if developers were assured that all 360s would have HDs, they would be able to rely on them for a number of things, not just caching. But yeah, I'm sure all of those are minor problems.

Rob

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

Nice way to gloss over the problem for developers - do we or do we not require a hard drive. That's a choice that could have been hard to make if the gimped system sold just as well or even a large percentage of the better system. Then you have to make the choice of whether it's better to make a more technically impressive game by caching to the hard drive and locking out a good chunk of users or making a less technical game with higher sales.

Where not arguing the quality of the games here (you'll get no

Re:

[The_Sock]

I was speaking of the Blu-Ray vs. DVD as suggested, and by extension, the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox360. If developers know the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive is there, they know they can make their games over a certain size, otherwise, they either make it fit to DVD, only, or make two versions. As games get bigger and more immersive, the extra space could become important. Now, do they cut out half their audience by putting it on HD-DVD, or do they slim it down to fit it on DVD? Or do they make two different vers

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

Blu-Ray isn't optional on the PS3... it's availble on every PS3 sold... no decision there

The HD-DVD drive cannot be used for games. code cannot be executed from the drive... no decision there ether all 360 games have to be on DVD.

Re:

[The_Sock]

Ummm, the original post in this tread said they would like to see the PS3 with the Blu-Ray player optional. That's what started me as saying I didn't think optional hardware would be the way to go.

Now, I didn't know the HD-DVD drive couldn't be used for games. I wonder if developers are going to need the extra space that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide. Will this finally be something to differentiate the two machines, with the PS3 getting the larger, more immersive worlds, or perhaps just a lot of extras with th

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

I agree that a split in the console as great as the storage medium, with some games requiring an HD-DVD drive and not everyone having one, would be quite a problem. I think that's why MS essentially locks out access to the HD-DVD drive for game content. The Sega CD and subsequent 32X were horrible ideas IMO and any modern day repeat of that would be equally as bad and not learning from history.

I've yet to see a game with that much content that didn't have enough of a linear progression that it couldn't b

The cheapest way...

[F-3582]

Intelligence says that some German retailer had a crazy stunt: Bring your Xbox360, smash it in front of the audience and get a PS3 for free! Limited to the first fifty people...

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

er.. is it so utterly inconceivable that some people actually want to own a ps3?
for them, it would have been an easy way to save ~300 euros...

The first lesson?

[lpangelrob]

Lesson #1: Rampant Microsoft fanboyism is best left to the fanboys, not Microsoft.

Re:

[QuantumHobbit]

What's scary is that if Microsoft starts astroturfing fanboyism, what happens to the independant fanboys when Microsoft uses its monopoly to push them out of the fanboy business.

A whistle stop tour of electronic stores

[hine_uk]

I had the day off today due to the dryer at home deciding to stop working. This took me on a tour of Comet, Curry's, Woolworths and Big W.

All stores had huge signs outside saying "PS3 stock available inside". This was from 12 oclock through till 2pm. Everywhere had huge stands and what looked like large amounts of stock, I also only saw one person show interest.

Later this afternoon I decided to take a trip into Cardiff (S.Wales vally boy just so you know). Gamestation, Virgin, Game, HMV and more all had signs saying "stock available".

I think at this point that I should note that in all stores the Wii was totally sold out. Supply chain problems,lack of interest whatever. I think it speaks for itself that at £425 just for a base unit console the numbers are going to suck. People want value not extra's and to put a long story short, if you really do need that PS3 get to Newport and Cardiff in S.Wales.

Pete

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

You guys in the IK should contact people in other european countries, the Wiis for instance in Austria currently can be found in not too big but good numbers, almost every bigger store over here has at least 3-5 boxes stacked. Of course this is nothing compared to 70 PS3 boxes, from which 3-5 were sold at the entire launch day, but this is an entirely different issue :-)

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

If you need a PS3 they can be obtained in huge numbers in most european countries... The picture seems all over the same, almost no units sold, boxes stacking up left and right

I have heard preorders were better, sales really were not that good, in german forums there were reports of people, who reported 3 ps3 sold on launch day by big chains the entire day, not one of those reports a lot of them, and they are pretty well in line with local sightings of friends of mine over here, and what the reports tol

The reviews...

[Kjella]

...have been quite positive around here, but it's like:

Pro: It's a great $1000 package
Con: It's a $1000 package
(after 25% VAT)

Basicly, if you're going to use it as a HDTV movie box, buy it. If you're going to use it as a game console, get the 360 instead. The Wii was barely mentioned, for the PS3 target market they clearly saw it as PS3 vs 360. While the Blu-Ray drive is very competative to stand-alones, basicly if you're not going to use it then the prices will drop fairly quickly in a year or two, there's

Fuck

[koreaman]

I'm still waiting for it to come out here in Kenya.

Re:wtf?!

[twistedsymphony]

The real question is: did they also provide the HD cables to connect the PS3 to those TVs? (since the PS3 doesn't come with them)

Re:

[ZakuSage]

If someone gave me a free HDTV, I'd -not- complain spend $9 to buy the cables myself.

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

Interesting? They just gave away a 42" TV. Even without cables, just go buy your own HDMI cable for like $10 off Monoprice or similar sites. You know the fanboys have mod points when...

well I was going for ironc/funny... Even after buying/receiving thousands of dollars worth of equipment you'd still need to go and buy an HD cable before you can use it at it's full potential.

The lack of an included HD cable (component or HDMI) is just another small bullet item on the long list of things Sony has done wro

Re:

[Churla]

My bet is that Sony realizes that the PS3 is only really a value for people needing HD, and many people simply aren't running HD yet. (I have a 36" standard def tube set at home which still looks great for everything I watch).

That known the best way to get people evangelizing about the product is to make sure they are using it in the most optimal scenario.

Also, I am willing to bet he knows the PR quagmire/sinkhole the PS3 is in and knew it would get him good publicity pop.

Re:

[Weedlekin]

"My bet is that Sony realizes that the PS3 is only really a value for people needing HD, and many people simply aren't running HD yet."

The current Spanish PS3 advertising campaign pushes the Sony Bravia 1080P TVs as an ideal companion to it for this reason (in addition to Sony hoping to sell a bunch of Bravias, obviously!). Big screen TVs are reasonably popular, but HD isn't because there are no HD services on standard broadcast, digital terrestrial, cable, or digital satellite, so there's not really been a

Re:

[MemoryDragon]

That happened only in London, and even there the reception was rather cold (they had 100 tvs for the midnight lines in London and given the fact this was a secret even there were almost no lines). The biggest documented thing was in Paris, where 60 people basically bought a PS3 in a big launch event, where they had 1000 PS3s lingering around, to the worse, a Microsoft boat drove by before. Actually locally here (central europe) there were some boxes sold, but they had them stacked up so most of them basica

Re:

[BarneyL]

Finally we find out why the PS3 costs so much more in the UK.
It has an HDTV bundled with it....