World of Darkness MMOG In Active Production

Laying the fears of tabletop gamers to rest, CCP (makers of EVE Online) has confirmed that they're already working on a Massively Multiplayer game set in the World of Darkness. The dark setting, a property owned by CCP's new purchase White Wolf Games, will be translated to the Massive genre some time over the next four to five years. There's no word yet on which portion of the setting will be used for the game, but the Eurogamer article hints that vampires will feature heavily in the title. "The World of Darkness MMO was announced when the two companies merged last year, with both the American and Icelandic operations staying quiet on the subject ever since. Fans have since speculated that the game isn't in active production - rumours Bergsson laid to rest last week. '[World of Darkness] is one of the reasons we were so interested in White Wolf,' [Magnus Bergsson] said. 'It's a very mature IP. It's a great title for us to take and make into an MMO. First of all there are no MMOs like it. We kind of like that, and we want to explore some new avenues with that type of MMO - character-based and not being fantasy, per se. It's a real opportunity for us.'"

More developer interference?

[rbanzai]

Have they outlined how much the developers plan to interfere with the players? It would be nice to see a timeline!

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a shame because the White Wolf universe is perfectly suited for this sort of game. The shame being that after CCP's recent debacles I'll have nothing to do with them. Seeing as I dont even play EVE and I've heard of the things going on there, you can bet there will be others that follow suit.

Re:

[Cornflake917]

Meh, I think that's kind of a dumb reason to not play a game. If you enjoy playing the game, who cares if the devs cheat, even if it alters the whole economy. My problem is that CCP has poor game design concepts, and don't know how to make a fun game.

Re:

[brkello]

How can something be overrated when it isn't rated up :P

Re:

[Palshife]

It's WoD! The GM's are supposed to get power-hungry and fuck over the players.

Re:More developer interference?

[LordPhantom]

I suspect Grandparent was making reference to several infamous incidences of the CCP folks (specifically GMs) 'cheating' in EvE Online. The GM/dev incidents and the way CCP mods handled it are one of many reasons I canceled my subscriptions(and no you can't have my stuff, someone else does), and is the prime reason I'm not sure I can invest any time or money in a new effort on their part. I sincerely hope that they do make a great product and maintain the game world integrity - as far as MMOGs go, EvE is the most conceptually interesting game out there.

Re:

[Palshife]

Yeah, I followed all that. What a mess.

Re:

[Bieeanda]

Not to mention the (in)famous 'metagame' that the WoD developers played with themselves-- er, that is to say, played through entire series of sourcebooks and new core rulebook editions.

This is one MMO that I'm going to stay very, very far away from. I've played WoD tabletop, I've played it LARP, and I've had dealings with people who have played it extensively in unofficial MUX text games; common themes straight through all of those have been GM caprice, OOC politicking, whining and histrionic drama. Take

Do this right

[Turn-X Alphonse]

If they do this right I am so in. Bloodlines was one of the best games I've ever played (except the bugs.. ahem) and to be quite frank I would kill for a decent sequal of any sort. If they get this right it could be an amazing game, but if they get it wrong it'll just turn into a social point (I expect it'll be set in a BIG city) where all sides work together instead of a vicious street war as all factions try to rule the city and avoid vampire hunters.

So, less grinding and more grand scale PvP and I'm in.

Re:

[the dark hero]

No-PVP areas? Honestly whats the fun in that? :P

I see you haven't played EvE Online.

Re:

[Hubbell]

PVP Safe zones are wrong, and are only present in games where gear is important like epicz in WoW.
For a better idea on how items/pvp combat should be in an ideal PVP game, check out this article [curse-gaming.com] I wrote for my new weekly column at Curse-Gaming.

Re:

[Turn-X Alphonse]

safe areas would be for respawning and newbie areas. It prevents killing newbies and would force you to survive in the wild or a long trip to return.

Re:

[Hubbell]

There is no reason to protect newbies. If you can't hack getting killed by someone better/older than you (in level based games, higher level) than you, then this will weed you out before you invest too much time into the game and figure that out down the road. There's no reason for a safe zone to respawn at, but perhaps a max 5minute NPK timer like Asheron's Call had. There were NO safe zones on Asheron's Call's darktide server until houses were added with barriers around them, and even then not everyone

Re:

[Turn-X Alphonse]

So you're saying if some guy with an area effect attack who's high level sits in the newbie area casting it over and over it should be fair game for newbies to just spawn and die?

Preventing abuse is important.

Re:

[Hubbell]

Said in my post there should be a small NPK timer after death so you can run away from a camping situation, otherwise no safe zones.

Re:

[code_nerd]

Spoken like a true jackass. I don't pay money for a game just to have some fat, pimply-faced basement-dweller rox0r me over and over. Unless, of course, the game is specifically just PvP. In MMOs, though, free-PvP with no safe areas simply weeds out everyone but the assholes. Darktide and its swear-or-die silliness is a great example of that.

Re:

[Hubbell]

Some people want a more complex dynamic to their gameplay, and open PVP offers that whether they are good at PVP or not. The politics, the overall guild strategy in the form of choosing targets to attack and resources to try and control, all are great aspects of an Open PVP environment. For people who want a deeper kind of PVP, Darkfall [darkfallonline.com] will be the game for you.
Darktide's swear or die stuff only applied to the PK guilds and jackasses in Khao.

Sounds fun...

[Ren.Tamek]

Sounds like fun. Pity it's going to take 4-5 years to complete [eurogamer.net]. That's a pretty long time in game development.

Re:

[techpawn]

If you played bloodlines, you'd of asked for a little more dev time for them to work out the bugs on what was such an awsome game. Better to take their time and do it right then rush the product and us be left to feel cheated.

transition between media.

[Gharbad]

I wonder how well they'll translate an excellent tabletop/larp setting into a hack and slash leveling grind.

Re:

[Diss Champ]

If anyone can avoid turning it into just another level grind, they have a good shot. Eve is more outside the mold than the other MMO that are doing well, and rather than just licensing the world they have the people who do the tabletop/larp games on the inside now. I'm also glad they are willing to take 4-5 years to do it- too many games these days schedule just enough time for the interface without enough for gameplay, and launch with what would be better called a proof of concept demo than complete produc

I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansion

[Coraon]

Otherwise it could be a while before we get to play my to favorites, Mage and Changling.

Re:I'm hoping they dont do each race as an expansi

[Opportunist]

If they toss them into the same pool as Vampires and Werewolves, I predict a messy and not really enjoyable experience for you. Given that, as a Mage, you mostly survive on being "mostly human" and hardly distinguishable from ordinary people by the other supers (which doesn't apply in a MMORPG, where you may safely assume that everyone who's not an NPC is some kind of supernatural), and the fact that for every kind of combat (and taking damage) you ARE mostly human (i.e. a soft target by any kind of definit

Re:

[Coraon]

I dont know, I see mage as a real, get the first shot off first kinda toon, I mean if I turn the vampire into a lawn orniment then I dont have to worry much about him eating me. Thats why I think the real griefers will be mages, they dont worry about humanity, they only worry about their version of the masqurade. As for wearwolves, yeah those guys are just nasty six ways from sunday, but I think this MMO would be well served by allowing players to heavely customise their toons, and not making them stand out

Re:

[Opportunist]

But since nobody will want to play a "mere" human, every player character can safely be assumed to be a super. How do you want to "blend in"? After a few weeks, you will KNOW your hunting ground and you'll notice anyone who doesn't belong there, no matter how "NPC like" he behaves.

Re:

[Macgrrl]

Unless I can play a Bastet - not interested. My Ceilican wants to come out and play again.

I used to play in an all Bastet chapter of the Camarilla. The players were all Regional officers or National Board members.

mature ?

[Tom]

If "mature" means "sucked dry and left to die" in his dictionary, I think he's right.

I used to be a big WoD fan. Played Vampire for years, liked Werewolf better, threw a lot of time into Mage and am still dreaming of doing a really, proper Wraith session one day.

But for all I care, nothing good has come out of White Wolf for years now. It all seems to be a cashing-in because they lack new ideas. Lots of the recent stuff reminds one of Games Workshop, who are well known for publishing a new edition every few

Re:

[pragma_x]

I too would be much more encouraged by this development if White Wolf actually did something new and good after 1999. It seems that all the good writing, direction and well, everything went out with smoking clove cigarettes while listening to Sisters of Mercy at nightclubs. This stuff doesn't seem to really be in vogue as much as it used to, which might explain why things aren't what they used to be? Perhaps there's room to exploit something else? (cue: "Emo the Indifference" sourcebook)

"Lots of the rec

Good and bad

[bar-agent]

On one hand, there will be more roleplaying. On the other, the roleplaying will be all angsty and goth. On the gripping hand, roleplayer or not, all players will be griefers and minimaxers.

I forsee one problem immediately. Most of the WoD stuff is set in modern times, in modern cities. I don't see how a MMORPG can do that right. Let's say, for example, Chicago. Chicago is big. And we know what Chicago is supposed to be like, what the streets are, etc. And it is full of people. A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

So, they will either have to use the middle-ages stuff, or use fake cities and tricks like keeping you in one neighborhood while showing the rest of the city "just over the wall."

Re:Good and bad

[jollyreaper]

I foresee one problem immediately. Most of the WoD stuff is set in modern times, in modern cities. I don't see how a MMORPG can do that right. Let's say, for example, Chicago. Chicago is big. And we know what Chicago is supposed to be like, what the streets are, etc. And it is full of people. A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

So, they will either have to use the middle-ages stuff, or use fake cities and tricks like keeping you in one neighborhood while showing the rest of the city "just over the wall."

Unless they license the content from Google Streets....:)

Seriously, I wonder how long it will be until Google Earth content gets included in serious gaming. I've heard some people were working on a novelty port of Risk but what I'm thinking of is more like X-Com. Especially when you consider the stuff they have going with the 3D Buildings, textures and all, it gives me flashbacks to the traffic control program from the Ghost in the Shell movie.

Maybe the actual satellite imagery wouldn't look as good in a gaming environment but it could probably be a start for seeding procedural content generation code ala Spore. "Ok, this area should be shoreline, make it look so. Flat grasslands here, steppe and plains there, mountains over yonder." Generate flora and fauna and there you go. "Bullshit," you say? "Impossible?" "Too much work?" I would have said the same ten years ago if you told me about even half the stuff we're playing with today.

Re:

[foeclan]

A tiny Chicago with a handful of NPCs is not going to work.

They could probably pull off a City of Heroes model with multiple city zones (some of which are huge) forming a full-sized city. They have hordes of NPCs wandering the streets with basic AI (run from bad guys, but that superhero over there? Just push him the hell out of the way ;), but only certain contacts actually have anything useful to say. They have some random encounters like muggings, where if you defeat the bad guys the citizens they're m

Re:

[Moraelin]

On one hand, there will be more roleplaying. On the other, the roleplaying will be all angsty and goth.

Sad to say, I don't think any MMO will involve any serious quantity of roleplaying.

I've been on RP servers before, I've been on RP MUD's, and frankly, the only ones who kept it half-way in-character were the MUD's which started banning left and right (or executing offending characters in public places) for OOC stuff. Downside: most of those lost most players very fast, and became ghost towns where the gran

Re:

[Opportunist]

I hear you. I've been pondering this problem for long: Is it possible to create a "virtual RP place". And the sad answer is: Not without a GM.

The core problem this all can be reduced to is: How do you reward "good" RP (and punish "bad" RP) instead of slaughtering monsters? Reward for shedding blood is simple: Kill X, get Y XP. That's something an algorithm can easily accomplish. How should an algo determine whether you are playing well? It can't. The other players in your group can, as can your ST/GM. To ac

Not really news

[jollyreaper]

I thought everybody already knew this was in the works. Or is this like Hillary officially announcing her candidacy for president after obviously planning it for years?

All this means is that resources are going to be sucked away from the current product, EVE Online. That's a bit of a pisser since the understanding with paying a monthly fee is that you're supposed to be paying for the upkeep of servers and the development of new content, not just lining the pockets of the owners.

Re:

[Diss Champ]

They have been hiring new people to do the new game; it used to be everything was in Iceland, the Atlanta office seems to be for this one. While there may be some time helping them get up and running, the Eve team is still working on Eve, not being moved to the new game en masse. There has been some mention of stealing bits of the WoD code to use for station environment and planetary stuff when it's far enough along so it won't be a one way street either.

Re:

[jollyreaper]

They have been hiring new people to do the new game; it used to be everything was in Iceland, the Atlanta office seems to be for this one. While there may be some time helping them get up and running, the Eve team is still working on Eve, not being moved to the new game en masse. There has been some mention of stealing bits of the WoD code to use for station environment and planetary stuff when it's far enough along so it won't be a one way street either.

I've heard this argument before and, without context, it seems logical and reasonable. But to refute it all one has to do is look at the laundry list of stuff that needs fixing that has been left unattended. The money going to pay for the station ambulation work could have just as easily gone to hire someone to fix the buggy drone AI. How about optimizing the net code so things don't lag out all the time? It's not a priority. You know what this reminds me of? Microsoft Office. I can show you bugs that have

Exalted would work better.

[TwoQuestions]

If you're into flashy special effects, Exalted would make a much better MMO. In First Edition it was all Greek/Roman type stories, now it's gone into the realm of anime. Still a fun game, with next to no world-spanning metaplot.

Re:

[zippthorne]

It's called, "World of Darkness." You shouldn't be expecting ANY visual effects. Let alone, "special." I think it's a brilliant way to reduce development overhead.

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[santiago]

Exalted would make for a wretched MMO under the current state of the art. Exalted is all about being one of the thousand or so most powerful beings in the entire universe. Celestial Exalted can routinely topple kingdoms and take over the world. It completely doesn't fit into the current MMO model of "kill things and take their stuff". ("Dude, let's go whack the Ebon Dragon's fetich soul again and see if he drops a Daiklave of Conquest!") MMOs rely upon repeatable content, and Exalted doesn't lend itsel

oh man

[Eklypz]

This would be so awesome. Vampire is my favorite RPG of all time. 4-5 years though, grrr be nice to see something different in the MMORPG world though!

Just ... HOW???

[Opportunist]

Anyone who knows WoD games knows that they differ from the average tabletop RPG in many ways. First and foremost, the story is the focus, not getting the biggest gun. Actually getting the biggest gun usually only serves one purpose (if your ST is halfway "realistic"): You becoming the biggest target. Because, and that's another "feature" of WoD style games: You can dish out vastly more damage than you can swallow. Many fights are decided by the question who wins the initiative, because the first blow often already reduces you to pulp barely able to limp away from the scene (provided your enemy actually uses tools that can hit you well. Fire, radiation, silver, pick your poison).

Couple that with the fact that WoD games rely heavily on a cloak-and-dagger style, where every fraction has pretty neat powers but at the same time incredibly tight laws concerning their use, how would you want to create a good MMORPG out of it?

If you toss the "laws" of the supernaturals (i.e. Vampires, don't go out and have people know you are one, Werewolves, better don't shift in plain sight, Mages, casting vulgar is not only a bad idea because of paradox and Wraiths, don't even THINK about interacting with the world of the quick...), you reduce it to a goth-style cyberpunk world. Everyone will go berserk in minutes, Vampires going on a feeding frenzy in the mall, Werewolves coming up behind and shred what's left...

And how should battles run? In fact, NO MATTER how "high level" you are, a well placed shot can and will at the very least make your life very, very miserable. Despite regeneration and whatnot, an assault rifle at full auto reduces any Werewolf to a little pile of mush in very little time.

Personally, I don't think it's possible to create the "mood" in a MMORPG. It also doesn't work well together with the average mindset of a MMORPG player. Usually MMORPG players want to create the biggest, baddest, have-it-all character. And that is, if they recreate the rules verbatim, the surefire way to a quick death, because, no matter what group you play, killing such a top-level character is not a significant problem for a group of grunts and also offers them a LOT of benefits. Unless the "laws" of the supernaturals are enforced. But ... how?

Sorry. I don't see this game take off. Either it sucks as a MMORPG or it sucks as a WoD game.

Re:

[sacremon]

Which all goes to indicate that there will have to be a difference between the PnP ruleset and MMORPG ruleset.

This is no different than DDO or even NWN. There are some things that need to be trimmed from the PnP ruleset because they make no sense for a video game. Things will have to be simplified. Heck, there isn't balance between the games in PnP. A mage can pretty much toast any other type of character.

Odds are the result won't satisfy the hardcore WoD fans, as whatever they are accustomed to will be

Re:

[Opportunist]

Well, my personal fear would be that it is turned into yet another MMORPG. With Werewolves as tanks, Vampires as offtanks, mezzers, stunners and charmers, Changelings as buffers and debuffers and Mages as healers and damagecasters.

If it is faction vs. faction, it's even worse. Mages will have to tread very lightly, because unlike in the PnP version, you'll know that whoever you meet IS a super and if you don't "know" him, he's most likely an enemy. There's a reason why the original books mentioned the other

Re:

[sanjacguy]

And how should battles run? In fact, NO MATTER how "high level" you are, a well placed shot can and will at the very least make your life very, very miserable. Despite regeneration and whatnot, an assault rifle at full auto reduces any Werewolf to a little pile of mush in very little time.

Hmmm - I guess I remember things differently, or had a very different GM. Your average Joe on the street would tend to run screaming into the night at the sight of a Werewolf in Crinos form due to the Delerium - so your shooter must be somebody special or your GM was 'lucky'. Your average Werewolf in Crinos (the big upright biped wolf man) would've taken a lot of damage, and might even be killed by the 'lone gunman', with some bad luck on the player's part. Then again, Werewolves travel in packs, usual

Re:

[Opportunist]

Well, generally you're right. But remember that this would be a MMORPG, with every single person you meet (and that's not an NPC) will be a supernatural, who is by default not subject to the delirium. Then, yes, WWs travel in packs. Normally. In the MMORPG? Not likely.

It can be a veritable headache for your WW pack if you let them face a handful BSD kinfolk with sniper guns. Try it, you'd be surprised. Like I said, it all stands and falls with preparation. A headshot to a werewolf in homid is quite likely d

Re:

[DarkGreenNight]

Well, it's not very different from EvE online. Go full Pvp everywhere. Toss an Elysium and some other "secure" areas where you are killed on aggression (you may still get your victim). Too many non-allowed attacks and there's a blood feud on you, everyone can kill you at sight. Set some areas where the Prince and their minions turn a blind eye to, in where you can kill and get killed without a "legal" repercussion.

Then you just need to set a penalty (apart from losing whatever you where carrying) to death a

Re:

[Macgrrl]

First and foremost, the story is the focus, not getting the biggest gun. Actually getting the biggest gun usually only serves one purpose (if your ST is halfway "realistic"): You becoming the biggest target.

I used to be a Camarilla DST and tried to ban guns in game for a period of time; the goal was to get players to play their character's abilities rather than just shoot each other.

The context of the game was set not long after the Port Arthur masacare, in 'RL' there had been a massive gun buy back - g

Re:

[Opportunist]

"Biggest gun" was a loose term for "whatever makes your char powerful". Imagine a character getting the chance to diablerize a 3rd gen vampire. Imagine this becoming known.

Question for 100 bucks: How long does he have 'til his demise?

Re:

[Macgrrl]

We did a plot called "A Capadocian in a Can" where Capadocia had been defeated, his ashes split into 8 (? too long ago) parts - one part given to each of the Clans to protect. The presence of even one of these partial ashes collection was enough to cause great chaos. It was interesting to see all the maneouvering when one came into our National game.

Re:

[Opportunist]

Let me guess, everyone wanted to get the cans, but nobody wanted anyone to know that he has them? :)

I have no faith in CCP

[brkello]

Hopefully they will ditch the single shard idea which doesn't even work for Eve when you try to have large scale battles. Eve has a lot of good concepts hidden behind a UI designed by people with mental retardation ranging from slight to severe. I just can't see them making a good "traditional" MMORPG. They are going to have to get a boat load of artists that can do animation, learn how to design a UI, adopt a different server model. If I were a fan of this IP, CCP would be the last people I would worki

playable factions

[Katmando911]

It would be a really cool idea if they had everybody start out as a normal human, then later in the game is given a choice to become a warewolf, vampire, mage, or just stay human (vampire hunter, etc). There's a lot of potential with the WoD franchise. I'd play it.

Re:

[Katmando911]

sure, most people wouldn't stay a human, but it'd be nice to have a choice between Vampire, Warewolf, or Mage

Day / Night cycles?

[aapold]

How the hell are they going to handle daytime / night time? I mean it doesn't make sense to have 50% of your game time useless to a significant (majority?) percentage of your population... but at the same time not having dayling crimps advantages of the non-kindred types. Possibilities - make it real time (but no seasonal variation) thus your peak hours are night, and allow the others who can play during the day to do so....have quick daylight cycles, make them pass quickly, but still have everyone be in

Re:

[Walkingshark]

This was the first question that entered my mind. If vampires are going to figure heavily in it, how are they going to handle the sunlight question? It works in a single player game like Bloodlines because you just have everything take place at night, but... hmmm Maybe it'll be like a mix of DDO and COH. Vampires will have a hub city that is always dark, Werewolves will have a hub out in the woods, there will be little or no mixing between them except in instanced PVP quests and special PVP zones.

Hopefully it will be based on V:tM:Redemption

[blincoln]

Most. Melodramatic. Videogame. Evar. But is still the only PC RPG to my knowledge that lets you end up with a party of vampires in trenchcoats armed with miniguns.

Horrid Idea!

[morari]

The World of Darkness is great, and the past two games based on Vampire: the Masquerade are among my favorite in any genre. Bloodlines especially had a great sense of character (despite a lackluster ending). The problem with the idea of an MMO is that they will not do it correctly. The World of Darkness is not D&D, it's not for power gamers, it's for people actually looking to roleplay; people that wish to act out a character and be absorbed by the STORY, not collecting weapons and level grinding. While

MMORPG announcement form

[StikyPad]

[Company Name] is announcing its decision to turn [Franchise] into a [Superlative] new MMORPG set in the award-winning [Franchise] universe! It will feature the latest in [3D Feature] technology and each of the avatars will be rendered in [Superlative] detail! Players will be able to visit [Landscapes], massive [Type of Settlement], and many other exotic locations!

[Franchise] will allow thousands of players to interact within the same persistant state world, adventuring together or fighting against each other in epic battles*! Among other features, players will be able to own [nouns] and ride [animal or vehicle], and [Guilds/Companies/Clans] will be able to purchase [Status Symbols] once they have achieved enough [Arbitrary Measures]!

There will be [Integer] playable races from [2 or 3] factions, as well as [Integer] classes, including [Ranged Combat], [Melee Class], [Healing Class], and [Worthless Hybrid Class]! A vast storyline will put players in the middle of the action, and [Random or Recurring Time Period] events will provide a chance for players to win valuable prizes and items! Tradskills will allow players to craft [items] by performing [tedious activity] until [death]. A fully customizable user interface will allow players to craft an experience that best suits their play style! Reserve your copy today!

* [Company Name] reserves the right to ban anyone at any time for any reason.

Awesome potential

[obeythefist]

The PvP would be incredible. Werewolves vs. Vampires, truth be told, is an almost untapped genre in terms of MMO's. Game balance would be tough. The whole game design is going to be critical. Will there be huge cities being fought over in a war completely unknown to the human population? Will players need to get a car to drive from point A to point B?

Or will they rush to market and grossly underdeliver, making a flop out of a tremendously promising franchise?

Why is everyone so focused on the vampire aspect

[ihuntrocks]

As an avid fan of White Wolf's World of Darkness games (all LARP, former Camarilla storyteller and the like) I'm kind of saddened to see everyone (or at least from what I've read thus far) hyping up just the potential Vamire aspect of it. The World of Darkness has many other things to offer, from mortals to Mages to Werewolves to Prometheans, all of which would be equally fun to play in my opinion. It would be nice to see at least some of the other elements included for play, rather than the standard Vampir

I'll definitely play this

[petrus4]

if/when it comes out. The PC Vampire: The Masquerade was an atmospheric and generally awesome game, IMHO...and my younger brother and I are just the sort of deranged freaks that said atmosphere appeals to, as well. ;-)

If you're into this sort of thing, I suspect this game will definitely be something to look forward to, if it's anything like V:TM was.

To help speed development time...

[fedx]

World of Darkness. Maybe they could speed up development time by using the Doom 3 engine.

Could be good, but...

[Dreadtide]

I would love to see an MMO based of the World of Darkness. (Encompassing all therein)

There are quite a few problems to be overcome however.

First and foremost: Where does the snakes body go without it's head? No where. Story tellers of some variety would be required. GM's running massive story lines/chronicles would work, but, it would take a massive amount of effort. (Writers. Lots and lots of them.)

Players: The WoD is a semi-refined place. The players would have to be held to a "chat policy" of some kind.