In Wake of Price Drops, Further PS3 Doubts 424
Sony fans undoubtedly cheered the news of a $100 drop in price for the 60GB PS3, but even with the price drop there are several issues surrounding the console. 1up reports that the 80GB PS3 is following the lead of the EU-released PS3s by removing the Emotion engine and relying on software emulation for backwards compatibility. In an effort to decrease costs Sony continues to reduce features and develop their product. Meanwhile, Konami executive Kazumi Kitaue doesn't see much impact from the cut ... and in fact told Reuters that they're seriously considering a multi-platform release for Metal Gear Solid 4. "Kitaue said Konami may need to expand the target hardware for its blockbuster fighting game Metal Gear Solid, which has so far been developed for Sony's PlayStation machines, to other consoles in the future to recoup development costs ... The release of the latest version of Metal Gear Solid series is expected to help lure hard-core gamers to the PS3 and alleviate concerns over scarcity of strong PS3 titles. Underscoring sluggish PS3 sales and robust demand for the Wii, Nintendo shot past Sony in market value last month and bumped the Tokyo-based electronics conglomerate off the list of Japan's 10 most valuable companies."
PS3 fans happy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Article is FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
What's with all the anti-Sony FUD lately?
Catch-22 Sucks for Sony (Score:3, Insightful)
Price flamewars aside, the main issue with the PS3 is its library isn't really spectacular. Without a decent library (either general or exclusive titles) it is not going to sell well, even if it was the exact price of an XBox 360.
So, Konami is thinking about not making MGS exclusive to the PS3 because the sales have been poor.
But the sales won't increase without publishers hitching their star to the PS3 as exclusive titles (even if it's just exclusive for a year or so).
Then again, I don't see why 3rd party publishers go exclusive anymore. If you can increase sales by 50% by simply recoding an existing product then go for it. Note: I'm a software developer and I know very well that's not as easy as it sounds. But it's obviously possible asince it's being done now (even across the Wii and the 360, which are as different as you can get).
Re:Catch-22 Sucks for Sony (Score:2, Insightful)
PS3 is doing just fine for a console that shipped only seven months ago.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:PS3 fans happy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:PS3 fans happy? (Score:5, Insightful)
The best case scenario for manufacturers is for price cuts to happen because economies of scale start to kick in causing manufacturing costs per unit to drop. However, it is certainly not unheard of for new technology (or any other product for that matter) to get a price cut because the sales numbers are disappointing. Next you'll be complaining that Dole owes you 10 cents because you bought a can of peaches the day before it went on sale.
Whether or not (Score:2, Insightful)
But I don't WANNA PS3! (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm not doing that ever again. (Especially now that I'm married and my wife would kill me.)
So this generation the PS3 has become my "Don't WANNA" console. I don't wanna have to buy it, and I probably won't, even if Final Fantasy XIII remains exclusive to it. There are no games that will make me spend the ungodly amount of money I'd have to drop on the PS3.
I have the HD-DVD add-on for my 360, and in retrospect I think it was a bad purchase. Thanks to the HD war, not all the movies I want to see are available for HD-DVD, and I find that when I'm forced to resort to regular DVD...I don't really care. I'm just as happy either way, to tell the truth (with my 1080p tv). I could've and should've waited, and I can tell you from experience, HD movies aren't worth a 200 dollar player right now...and they CERTAINLY aren't worth a 500 dollar player.
Re:Foot, meet Mr. Shotgun (Score:3, Insightful)
Lately? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's been anti-PS3 FUD from day one. I don't know why. Microsoft has contributed with their multi-million dollar "grass-roots" PR campaign, but I don't think they are the sole reason. Sony *has* screwed up in a few ways (like shipping sixaxis controllers with no rumble), but considering how even a *price drop* causes the FUD to fly, it's hardly all due to their mis-steps.
I don't know why everyone is Sony-hating, but they've been doing it for a long time.
Not so sure about that (Score:2, Insightful)
If you check Amazon [amazon.com] you can see that the PS3 moved up to the number one selling item in the video game section. I think it was substantially lower (If I recall correctly it was 28th) before this from what I've been reading on other sites.
With E3 and the possibilities of some big ticket games being shown, It's possible for Sony to pick up even more steam. They've done a lot to shoot themselves in the foot, but I think they can still make a decent showing this round. Right now it's outpacing the Gamecube and the original Xbox, both of which were wonderful systems with great exclusives. I think Sony is given a lot more crap than they deserve.
Re:Nintendo Shot Past Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
The other factor that impacts market value is the total size of your profitablity. It's likely that Sony's other businesses earn less money (per dollar of sales) than consoles (in good times), so Sony's other businesses don't add as much as you might expect to its market value.
Less Incentive to Buy (Score:2, Insightful)
At any rate, for myself, selling me a crappier system for $100 less is worse than selling me the real deal for the original price.
Re:Catch-22 Sucks for Sony (Score:3, Insightful)
The sheer number of games doesn't matter. The quality of the games (and marketability, etc. of course) is what makes the difference. A console can have only 10 games and still be fine if those 10 games are so awesome that everyone buys all 10. Halo 3 for MS is better than 20 crap RPG games for Sony that will barely sell. Likewise FFXIII and FFXIII Versus will do more for PS3 than 20 rubbish sports games on 360. Indeed, you are 100% correct when you mention "great exclusives," because those are key to a console's success and legacy.
And nowadays, doing "alright" for a console just isn't good enough because when these "exclusives" end up costing as much as they do, the potential sales on that console simply aren't enough to make the game profitable. Selling as many units as the PS2 did in 7 months, or even a bit more, just isn't good enough considering how much more expensive PS3 games are to produce than first-generation PS2 games were.
Re:But I don't WANNA PS3! (Score:2, Insightful)
When you first get an HD player, you get HD movies just to see how they look. Hell, I would've watched The Adventures of Hanna Montana in HD if it was the only thing available at the time. But as time passes, you stop being hyper-aware of how it looks and start going back to just watching a movie.
I guess my ultimate point is that the difference between HD and standard def doesn't change my enjoyment of a movie. A good HD movie would've been just as good in standard def.
You forget... Nintendo owns Pokemon... (Score:5, Insightful)
You also forget that Nintendo owns a LOT of different IP which they license to many other entities. Their entire business model is based such that even if console tanks, they have enough cash to continue onwards. They keep their development costs low as well as their production costs and make sure they always are making a profit on each and everything they sell so they do not have to rely on future revenue from game sales to make a profit. They have had several systems which have flat out tanked in the past, but have always been able to continue through the market ups and downs (unlike some competitors, Atari, Activision, NeoGeo, SEGA... who couldn't last a single bad console release).
Re:Foot, meet Mr. Shotgun (Score:4, Insightful)
Games and lost exclusives, it is indeed Sony's job to make sure the games are in place, this is their biggest problem IMO. They didn't have enough of the right games, and have lost exclusivity on some of their better ones. But this is very much a matter of opinion, and I don't see them doing terribly here, just not as good as the Xbox360 or Wii in targeting the seperate markets. The Xbox360 is a direct competitor to the PS3 in terms of the games being fielded, and it's winning, while the PS3 can't compete at all with the Wii for obvious reasons.
So while there are no catastrophic mistakes aside from the price added by packing in Blu-ray, coming in 2nd-place in all categories leaves this console without a clear picture of what it's good for and who should buy it.
If I were to pick the worst part of the PS3's performance, I would have to stretch to include the marketing. It has been pure CRAP. Truly terrible. You would almost think that they have intentionally been sabotaging themselves. Have you seen the "This is Living" campaign? Soccer fanatic lying naked except for a jockstrap masturbating to a soccer game on TV? A busty-blonde pooping in a toilet telling stories about her mother? The mercenary's clip had a superb performance by the actor, really good stuff, and unfortunately, the message was that you should go and buy a bar of chocolate. However, this was a European campaign.
The U.S version was not that much better, though it had improved later on to actually show some clips of a game (Resistance). However, it had kicked off with a plastic baby crying blood to the sounds of Armageddon in a white room. Apparently they're trying to tell you that the PS3 kills babies and will bring about the Eschaton.
But as I have said, the PS3 isn't that bad of a package aside from the pricing. The games will happen someday, and when they do the PS3 will pick up some momentum. I don't think it has any chance of catching the Xbox360 or Wii. However, the PS3 has successfully established the next media format. HD-DVD is dead in the water since there are so many more blu-ray players in the wild. And releases will go to the format with the most people who can play them. And people will buy the format with the most releases on them...etc. etc. So Sony has that at least. Whether that translates into PS3 sales later on due to Blu-ray's lead on HD-DVD is questionable though.
Re:Catch-22 Sucks for Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
PS3 worldwide sales are so far following the sales trends of the GameCube [vgchartz.com], with the PS3 getting a small boost from the EU launch. It also follows pretty close to the worldwide XBox sales, which only had a large market share in the US and ignored everywhere else. For US numbers only [vgchartz.com], the PS3 is selling slightly below the GameCube--the also-ran of the last generation in terms of market penetration.
The PS3 is competing against a console with a year's head start to break 10m units, and another console that has a wicked upwards surge and will probably break 10m units within the next few months. Sony has a lot of work to do to avoid becoming the also-ran of this generation. With the number of exclusives moving multiplatform, it may already be too late to retake momentum.
Re:Lately? (Score:5, Insightful)
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/12
Articles like this followed:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/15
Before that time, most of the PS3 posts I remember regarded how cool the cell processor was supposed to be, and how great it would make PS3 games look and feel.
This of course ignores the rootkit fiasco, and the general hatred of Sony that resulted from it, as Sony stepped out from behind the cover of the RIAA to be in the spotlight as a big bad music label. And it ignores people upset about the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD war and how Sony's 30-year plan to own its own formats has screwed consumers time and time again. And how Sony's content divisions have taken control of the company, rendering products made by their (previously high-quality) hardware divisions crippled, like my otherwise very nice Sony plasma TV that can't play Sony Pictures' movies released on Sony Blu-Ray discs in a Sony Blu-Ray player without downscaling the graphics, because I "might try to copy them".
Re:Lately? (Score:4, Insightful)
Gamers, apparently, have a strong ability to bear grudges. While at this time Sony has definately improved their PR, that means diddly squat to a lot of gamers who are still angry about how they were treated last year.
It doesn't help that Sony hasn't explicitly stated they screwed up their PR, although at this point I'm not sure that would be enough to calm many people.
Re:Price Drop != Cheaper PS3 (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok, Sony Started out with 2 versions selling at $499 and $599. Now they have 2 versions selling at $499 and $599. The feature spec is now different, but how is that a price cut? For the sake of comparison let's take Sony out of the picture and compare Cameras.
Last year you could buy a 5.1 Megapixel camera solo for $199, or a 5.1 Megapixel camera with a bag, & extra batteries for $249.
This year you can get a a 5.1 Megapixel camera with a bag, & extra batteries for $199, or you can get a a 5.1 Megapixel camera with a bag, extra batteries and a memory card for $249 and they no longer sell the 5.1 Megapixel camera by itself.
You are getting more for your money, but at the core you're buying a camera at the same price as was offered last year.
Re:Lately? (Score:5, Insightful)
Gee - I wonder if this might be why I currently own a Wii, and not a PS3 or an Xbox 360[1]. Of course, Nintendo has been evil in the past, but they seem to have moved beyond that after having it blow up in their face.
It's not this is a war between only the Xbox 360 and the PS3 - there is another console to consider.
[1] Actually, it's not. The Wii has the games I'm interested in, and neither the Xbox 360 and PS3 do. But in any case...
Re:Foot, meet Mr. Shotgun (Score:5, Insightful)
I suppose all of the other PS3 issues relate in some way to the price of the console. When Sony first announced the price of the console, the executives acted very aloof like they were giving customers the privilege of being able to buy a PS3 at $600 (Apple has managed to do the same thing with a phone that also requires a $40 service plan and get adored for it), made statements about how the next generation didn't start until they launched, and generally acted like they didn't care what the customers thought and people should be lining up to give them money just because they're Sony. That's not a very customer friendly attitude to have, and has made everybody that felt condescended by Sony look at their product and decide that there isn't enough of a difference between the PS3 and the 360 to warrant the higher price, so they'll get the 360 since most games will be ported anyway.
Sony also has not paid attention to the history of consoles, and how no $500 console has ever done well. Further, all of the tens of millions of people that bought the last system are now about 2-6 years older than when they bought a PS2. For the twenty and thirty somethings in that group, many are now married, have kids, and the $700 or $800 (because you want games with that console right?) commitment is not as feasible that the $400 or $500 of the PS2, and many have also decided "been there, done that" for most of the games, and decided not to ante up for the newer model when they older one does just fine, or they've moved to the 360 for a better online experience, or to the Wii to try something new.
The last round, the Xbox was the hard core system, the PS2 was mainstream system with the GameCube. It's like Sony decided they wanted to switch roles with Microsoft, and go after the higher end market. HELLOO!!! You guys kicked the crap out of the Xbox last time because they were the high end system, and you were more affordable, and you decided to go after their part of the market, and left the core open for Microsoft and Nintendo to swoop in and take it away from you.
Also, with the PS and PS2, Sony used misinformation and hype to bury their competition because everybody waited to see what Sony had to offer which made the Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Sega Saturn and Dreamcast suffer, and Sony managed to do well enough to beat those offerings plus the N64, GameCube, and Xbox. This time, they're competing with a 360 that is comparable to the PS3 on value basis and a Wii that wants to take away the casual gamers that Sony had last generation.
The biggest thing of all has been the word of mouth. Sure, Sony kicked Nintendo's tail on launch week. But it didn't take long until word of mouth got around and demand for the Wii was through the roof. My wife reads lots of parenting magazines, and every one of them has had articles recommending a Wii for family friendly fun so that the family can spend time together while playing instead of junior hanging out in a corner of the basement alone, and they have the option of providing junior with active games so he'll be in a little better shape than he would be with any PlayStation game other than DDR or Guitar Hero. They also option of playing games that they played 10-25 years ago, and wouldn't mind playing again, with their kids.
Re:Lately? (Score:3, Insightful)
One can expect this sort of insanity from, say, a dot.com run by 20-somethings or the "Behind the Music" epic blowout of a drug-addled mega rockstar. It's more surprising still when you get institutional failures in old-line companies. You dig into the story, you've got people drinking some serious kool-aid. Charismatic personalities, leaders trying to work through personal psychological issues with Other People's Money, people who know better who are browbeaten into conformity or who are treated as Cassandra's, party-poopers to be voted off the island, it's the sort of story that's repeated time and time again but never seems to get old or go out of style.
I'm reading Hubris right now, a book on the lead-up to war in Iraq. Hoooooooooly shit. Leaders decide on a course of action and look for the intelligence to back them instead of the other way around. Deliberately ignoring dissenting opinions, forcibly shutting down people who won't play ball, using every political trick in the book to then get themselves into a problem that nobody knows how to get out of. I bet the story of the PS3 is just like that but with less dead people. This isn't a specific Bush slam, this is a slam against poor decision-making in general.
It's all about the games. (Score:3, Insightful)
The PS3 is suffering from the same problem as the PSP, most games available for the system are crap. There are quite a few that are decent, for the PSP anyway, but virtually none that truly stand out. The cost of the console and questionable media format are mostly secondary factors driving people away from the system.
It's crucial, of course, that Sony and third party developers are devoted to the console in the long run. I'm impressed by the broad appeal of the Wii. I've met people who I'd never expect to be interested in game consoles telling me they own one. However, I'm also discovered a recurring pattern amongst these people. Many of them own one game: Wii Sports. If they own a second game it's almost always Wii Play, and that's because the game comes with a second controller. Unless there's a somewhat informed gamer in the household I don't see these people buying anything else. And when they do own additional games everyone uniformly considers Wii Sports the most fun. That's the thing with casual and non-gamers. They aren't the most loyal of consumers, at least not in this segment. They're not going to be buying 10 games or more a year.
So this is where the PS3 still has a viable future. Provided, of course companies start releasing some great games for the console. If the PS3 had phenomenal games people wouldn't be complaining about cost and Bluray. People have no problem paying for an iPhone which other than having a unique interface and the Apple brand image doesn't really do anything the competitors can't do. And on top of that it costs as much as a PS3!
Re:Lately? (Score:2, Insightful)
What!! yeah, Sony had NO idea that a rootkit was on their cd's. Completely someone elses idea. It's SOOO easy to slip that in a major record company's major releases.
OMG. Yeah, that's a pretty far stretch. That's like saying that allofmp3 wasn't closed down by the RIAA or the US, it was shut down by a russian Judge. You win fanboy of the day.
More Expensive HW, Not Cheaper (Score:3, Insightful)
The PS3 HW was always planned to offer PS2 support in SW emulation, not the chip. But they didn't finish the SW until the EU rollout, when they could finally drop the chip that was faster to design in than was emulation.
So what has happened is that Sony is now dropping its PS3 price right as it's dropping the more expensive HW kluge. That alone doesn't raise any realistic doubts. If anything, it shows how skillful is Sony in mitigating its project management and marketing risks with alternate designs. Because users won't even notice the difference. All they'll notice is dropping prices and increased functions.
But what I want to see is Sony actually change 2 basic PS3 limits that hold back Linux on it. First, Sony must offer a model with RAM expandable beyond the 256-500MB hardwired into current models. Without more RAM, the fast Cell rips through all the data in 2ms, then can rely on all its IO to get only enough data to keep the Cell about 2-5% busy.
The other change Sony should make is to open the Hypervisor [wikipedia.org] to allow SW running on the Cell to call at least the 2D graphics functions on the RSX videochip. Otherwise, all video must be computed on the Cell. PCs all put all that graphics/video computation/rendering on the VGA coprocessor.
If not, people will have to port Linux X drivers to the Cell SPEs. That could happen anyway, for even more interesting video processing than that built into the RSX. Once PS3 has video codecs ported to SPEs or RSX, MythTV will become a killer app, with a USB TV decoder feeding it, and a DLNA server [wikipedia.org] for archive.
Re:Price Drop != Cheaper PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lately? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not actually defending Sony, just saying that they did rectify the issue and paid excessive fines (far above any damage actually caused) yet I'm not hearing any flack about the other companies involved, such as First 4 Internet, Microsoft, and any of those companies continued partners.
As for allofmp3.com, I think you are starting to understand how law works. You can can demand or make all the threats you want but in the end it is the law makers that make the decisions.
Re:The models with the chip are using software emu (Score:1, Insightful)
Newsflash: some people prefer flawless backwards compatibility over prettier pictures. You seem to be ignoring that. Sony themselves said the emulation isn't perfect. You may not have one of those games that isn't BC, but others might.
Frankly, that alone was a dealbreaker for me on ever getting a PS3. I just don't like software emulation on a bulk scale. It's. Not. The. Same.
So, yes, in my case, software BC IS a huge issue, and yes, I'm quite aware it's a personal feeling, but it's also my personal $500 that would get a PS3, so I think I'm entitled to my opinions on what is or isn't a huge issue about it.
Re:Foot, meet Mr. Shotgun (Score:2, Insightful)
More work to make the games work better on the system? Boo frickin' hoo. Game production ALWAYS gets more difficult as the years go on. Stop using that as an argument. It's not an impossible task to write PS3 titles properly; it's being done. I have no sympathy for developers that can't develop.
About the memory thing, it should be noted that the CPU RAM is clocked at CPU speed. 3.2Ghz, no tricks.
Only the Elite supports 1080p.
Every single PS1/PS2 title I've tried from my friends' very large game collection have worked flawlessly. Out of the 10 titles I have for my Xbox, five gave me shit on the 360. Awesome.
And don't give me shit about the PS3 controller. It's nearly perfect. Don't you think that Sony would have changed things around with it a little bit in the last decade if people didn't like it? And what, it's not HEAVY enough? Go dream up some new FUD and get back to us. (You don't even mention that the SIXAXIS in the SIXAXIS controller means it's motion sensitive, and it works well.)
*sigh* Here we go again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take two pictures with a digital camera: One at 1MP, and another at 2MP. Copy the photo files to your PC and then note the resolutions. Now, use a photo editor to stretch the image of the first photo to the same resolution of the second. Notice a difference between the two? The first photo lacks the detail of the second because it never had the additional detail in the first place.
So sure, 720p games scaled to 1080p will look good, but the art assets (textures, etc.) were not created for the higher resolution.
As for the media drives, I prefer the quitness and constant throughput of the PS3's drive, thanks. Last night, for shits, I loaded up Gears of War (gamertag: Ilidd, if you want proof) again after having not played my 360 in several months. The DVD drive is just as obnoxiously loud as I remember it.
I don't buy 360 versions of games anymore and I'm seriously playing with the idea of selling my 360 because the system is unreliable and noisy. Yes, I know the 3RRoD is warranted for 3 years now. I don't care. A console shouldn't break that quickly in the first place.
No matter what happens to the PS3 at this point (win, lose, becomes another Dreamcast story) I've already recieved lots of enjoyment from it. Yes, it was expensive but it was worth every penny. I can honestly see that system physically lasting for 10+ years because of the build quality. I can't say the same for my 360 and I won't replace it when it breaks.
I guess my whole point is that if gamers were to sit down with a PS3 and play all the games it has, I think they would really enjoy it. Every person I've had play mine loves the system and the games, except for one guy, who as much as I like the dude, is a Xbox fanboy in the worst way. Some people are that way and it's honestly their loss. I hate Microsoft's shoddy products, but I still gave both their systems a chance. I didn't like the direction Nintendo went with the Wii, but I bought one. I sold it because it was boring to me, but I still see why some people go crazy over it.
Peace.