Games Workshop Forbids Warhammer Fan Films 251
EikeHein writes "Made by dozens of fans over a period of several years and featuring impressive special effects, the feature-length Warhammer 40.000 epic DAMNATUS ranks among the most elaborate fan productions ever made — and yet may never see the light of day. Despite initially giving a go-ahead to the project, UK-based Warhammer franchise owner Games Workshop has come around to forbid distribution of the film just as it was being readied for release. What's more, they've amended their IP Policy to forbid any such projects in the future. At the heart of the matter appears to be Continental European copyright law, which grants the German film makers certain irrevocable rights to their creation which they cannot sign away. Given that the owners of the other two SF mega-franchises, Star Trek and Star Wars, have been able to come to terms with such issues and arguably benefit greatly from the media attention paid to popular fan productions, it would seem that Games Workshop still has to learn a thing or two about how to capture fan enthusiasm for their benefit."
Preposterous (Score:5, Insightful)
Ignoring my personal purchasing decisions, though, this is still stupid. I mean, it's not like Games Workshop actually sells games. They sell miniatures. They encourage purchase of the miniatures with something like a game structure (so it's a little more advanced than playing with toy soldiers...but not much more advanced than the games I invented for my various little figures when I was 10. Except for Blood Bowl, of course. That game is two shots of high-proof awesome.) that requires you to buy more miniatures if you want to play by the rules and an (admittedly) pretty compelling universe to set your encounters in.
I would, in fact, make the case that the universe is more important to their income than the "games" are. I know plenty of people who play Warhammer with pretty major departures from the rules, but I don't know anyone who plays Warhammer without Orcs.
So when presented with an opportunity to, at no cost, generate fan excitement and greater exposure, you'd think the smart thing to do would be to run with it as far as possible. Squelching it - moreover, squelching it in a way that makes you look like a bully, an ingrate, and general underdog-trampler - would seem to be the worst thing you could do.
I mean, aside from kicking puppies and smogging out rainbows.
(As an aside: the bright spot in all this is, should some miracle of rationality prevail, and GW manage to figure out that blocking this is a bad move, it should generate plenty of publicity for the project)
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Insightful)
I would, in fact, make the case that the universe is more important to their income than the "games" are. I know plenty of people who play Warhammer with pretty major departures from the rules, but I don't know anyone who plays Warhammer without Orcs.
And the ironic part is that the Orcs are what aren't necessary to play the game. They make (relatively) inexpensive rulebooks and horrifically expensive miniatures. It would be entirely possible to play the game by buying the inexpensive rulebooks and using a bunch of scraps of paper with "Orc" written on them in crayon in lieu of the expensive orc miniatures. But as you said, nobody does that.
They're an an enviable position of having valuable IP that's *hard to reproduce*. But they still end up being dicks over it.
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Re:Preposterous (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Informative)
In my opinion, the game aspect of it is particularly shallow in comparison to most other similar games (tabletop tactical), with odd and limiting provisions such as only being allowed to fire at the nearest enemy.
One way to look at it is that Games Workshop is the grown up (that is, expensive) version of playing with toy soldiers: you collect your toy soldiers, then get to use them in a game structure.
(Note: I completely understand the attraction of buying and painting miniatures, building up huge collections of them, and getting enjoyment out of deploying them in a structured game format; I don't mean to disparage it as a hobby. I, personally, prefer the game to be more involving than the game pieces, but I'm not much of a collector.)
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"What is that?"
"My deck, it is a black green deck, mostly rares, should work well together."
"What?"
You see I had scanned in the cards from one of the "recognition manuals" printed them on a color printer and taped them to regular playing cards. The whole room about blew a gasket. One guy, who owned the big 7 (
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Similarly in M:tG, the game balance depends on the rarity of the cards. Free access to as many copies as desired of whatever cards you choose does completely change the nature of the game (which is why you always want to play with people in similar financial circumstances as you
Re:Preposterous (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously I didn't miss the mark.
Re: Preposterous (Score:2, Insightful)
First of all, Games Workshop does *not* produce miniatures of any sort. The miniature models come from Citadel Miniatures. Games Workshop produces games.
The older models were quite expensive. Lead, and most recently pewter, hand-cast miniatures are not exactly cheap pieces like those found in Monopoly. That, and if you've actually held and seen some of the miniatures, they have FANTASTIC detail. To address the cost question, plastic m
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This is a meaningless distinction. Citadel Miniatures is a *brand* of Games Workshop. What you just said is akin to saying "General Motors does not produce cars of any sort. The cars come from Chevrolet."
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And just as after they acquired White Dwarf, all of it will turn to crap.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Games Workshop is the Microsoft of miniatures gaming. Fuck you, Games Worksh
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Important note: Blood Bowl - along with Necromunda, Mordheim and some of the other Specialist Games which essentially got axed - did not require a huge investment in miniatures. One team per person is enough to play. A full collection (one of absolutely every possible legal team configuration) would probably be less than 200 miniatures (although I
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Interesting)
Way ahead of you, big man. I used to be a real hardcore fan of GW and, back in the day, I was a subscriber to White Dwarf for a long time but around #110ish things started going badly, badly wrong at the ranch. That's about when they switched their focus from RPGs to the miniatures business. They stopped doing articles on other companies' games and started bigging up Warhammer, Blood Bowl, and WH40K. They even seemed to lose interest in their own roleplaying games. Before that it was a hell of a magazine - fiction, articles, art, and quality all the way. After that it became a big ad you paid for. I had no interest whatsoever in their dinky little toys and I was on a one-way ticket to Alienation City. It was a real shame because a lot of real talent used to contribute.
They seem to be doing well enough out of it but, if such a thing is possible, they sold their soul back at the end of the 80s for their money. Plus the staff in the stores I've visited since are total dicks.
Re:Preposterous (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, before WD become a large, paid for, GW advert, they used to publish adventures and source material for all sorts of games in the magazine. I can look in the corner of the room now, and see Traveller, AD&D and other game system adventures published in White Dwarf. If that's not making money from derivative works of other peoples IP, I don't know what is. And what's more, they did this quite unashamedly for 10 years, before GW had enough games to fill the pages with adverts for their own games. Talk about hypocrisy.
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For me they jumped the shark when they introduced that stupid imperial chariot with the 20 foot long musket [games-workshop.com] that could shoot the enemy general (even through a hill) anywhere on the board if you could roll 2 or above on 2D6. Around 1990?
Then there was the stupid colleges of magic thing that seemed like a cross between Terry Pratchett and scissors-paper-stone.
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At the moment, I'm about to get back into the swing of things after a decade long hiatus from miniatures with other pursuits (I just can't seem to get rid of that hankering of painting nicely done miniatures). Yet... after checking out the local GW store and noticing that:
- Most of the cool miniatures now suck or have been replaced with 'yet-ano
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A few years ago GW set mandatory sell targets for their merchandise. If you weren't pushing their games and selling x amount of figures every week, they would drop you as a supplier. So a lot of gaming stores sucked it up and really pushed GW hard, resulting in an expected increasee in GW sales. GW then analyzed the sales demographics and totally fucked these top selling stores by cutting off their stock and opening Games Workshops
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This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."
So if i get a Tattoo of one of their trademarks, exactly what do they plan to do about it?
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Maybe they've been hanging out with Sony Execs.
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Jolly Roger (Score:5, Interesting)
Desperate times call for desperate measures. I hear that there are alternative (?) distribution methods out there. Something about "hoisting the flag" and all that?
*ahem* *ahem* *ahem*
"Arrrrghhhh"
Re:Jolly Roger (Score:4, Insightful)
The real tragedy is that after four years of working on a project, just to have the company that originally gave you permission say "throw it away. We changed our minds and would like for you to undo all of your work". After that, how hard will they try to get it distributed? Someone may put it out there just for spite, but I doubt it will ever be the labor of love that it once was.
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If they're allowed to show it to their parents and friends, it should be no problem getting it on Bittorrent and eDonkey (hint:use emule or amule, double hint:they're free) untraceably. I'm sure if you accidentally dropped the DVD at a few LAN parties, you'd be well on your way to hassle-free distribution.
AND, they could put a donations button o
A "fuck you" from GW... (Score:5, Funny)
More news at 11.
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You're funny.
Seriously, based on the players I see in the two GW stores in town, I doubt more than 10% of GW's base these days knows there's a story behind the minis, let alone that some people in the other 10% were making a fan film about it. This is going to be a ripple, at best.
And if it gets any bigger, we'll just feed the God-Emperor of Mankind a few hundred more souls today, and he'll smooth it right out.
Simple Solution (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Simple Solution (Score:4, Funny)
Games Workshop has a lot to learn about fandom (Score:5, Insightful)
They have many creative individuals working for them that I respect, but as a company, they have basically sucked to be a fan of for YEARS.
And really, their background material is largely 'borrowed' from other fantasy and sci-fi sources anyway, so that they should be so very protective, when the movie will just bring them more exposure and act as a huge advert for them, seems utterly ridiculous.
Decided to churn their audience a few years ago (Score:4, Insightful)
They also realized that their old-time base was mostly using their older miniatures, just updating rule books and adding a few neat elements. Their third edition tried to force changes by making the troops more powerful than the specialists, to encourage more purchases as well.
They found that with their game stores, they were able to bring in teenagers with disposable income, but the other gamers didn't want to play with teenagers... makes sense, if you're in your 30s and 40s and have kids at home, your hanging out with the guys night is less fun if there are 14 and 15 year olds there.
They found that getting teenagers into the game, who would drop money then disappear when they got older gave them a constant supply of people buying miniatures. The guy playing the same Imperial Guard army for 10 years doesn't generate that much revenue.
They took a very anti-fan approach, and while it gave them a bump in sales, they have become one of the companies hated by gamers... including those that play their games.
GW really knows how to reach fans! (Score:5, Interesting)
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GW has gone significantly south in the last few years, along with its magazine/catalog White Dwarf.
From Peter Haines whining about "the internet", Jervis Johson pontificating about "Just Play for Fun" without allowing reader feedback (Hey Jervis, why tournaments then?).
This is just one more spike in the pudding.
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Haines: Some creative searching on warseer.com might present something.
Sorry I don't have anything more specific, I'm trying to move past GW.
sell it to games workshop! (Score:3, Interesting)
IP Laws (Score:5, Interesting)
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There's MUCH more to this story. (Score:5, Informative)
There, you have it. There's a lot more to this story that's not even mentioned in the summary - it's just another /. IP is EVIL story. Just the summary on Wikipedia is kind of confusing. And to honest, I don't blame GW for putting the brakes on the movie. Wikipedia summary of German copyright law. [wikipedia.org] I'm trying to find more English versions, but even then, I'm not a lawyer, let alone a German lawyer.
There's more to it than GW maliciously hurting fans.
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This article is about Games Workshop, not Game Designers' Workshop. GDW shut down down in 1996.
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Re:IP Laws (Score:5, Informative)
They could sign over the copy/distribution/whatsorever rights with no problem. But still GW can't say that they created this movie. Which they haven't. That's all there is to it.
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You can however sign away commercial rights (usage, protection).
This is what the German Wikipedia says (and what I recalled).
CC.
Well, duh (Score:5, Funny)
2. ?
3. Profit!
Why doesn't GW just build a public website (Score:5, Insightful)
GW gets the credit and any revenue generated; fans get to be creative.
If I was their CEO, that's the way I'd do it.
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When a vacuum is created, something will fill the void. In GW's case, that something is Privateer Press (privateerpress.com).
Now there's a company that knows how to interface with their customers!
Worng wrong wrong (Score:3, Informative)
This is another company that doesn't understand the new way of making money. They no they offer nothing that can't be easily duplicated. Fear of that makes them do stupid crap. I can't wait until the desktop modeling tool get cheaper. I will make copies of several of the warhammer miniatures and mail them to there head quarters
Call it a parody instead (Score:5, Interesting)
This doesn't get around a truth of a world in which ideas generate money in a hostile environment where those without money suffer badly. If you create something, and own it, and want to keep profiting off of it, the tendency is to reserve as many rights as possible. And until you get the fifty million bucks that puts you and your family out of society's reach, that's what you're gonna do.
Wonder how long that ill-designed paradigm will last.
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Re:Call it a parody instead (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm. What if we call it a banana?
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Unsurprising. (Score:2)
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No idea, but you've obviously never seen the spectacularly, hideously useless results obtained through attempting to paint a Citadel miniature using enamel paints intended for Airfix model planes.
WHEN CULTURES COLLIDE and all that. Never again.
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Here's what I don't understand (Score:2)
The fucktards are short sighted idiots who will undoubtly realize their stupidity when their fan/customer base up and leaves...
You're only as good as your last [insert thing of interest].
wow.. Evil Empire of the tabletop world, evil? (Score:2)
I'll admit I bought a few of thier things.. promptly modified them to be more realistic (why do evil robots need axes on the end of thier particle cannons? oh wait.. they dont.. THEY ARE EVIL ROBOTS!!!).. and used them for non-GW uses... hurray hurray!
Here's what *I* don't understand (Score:2)
Why would they need any kind of "permission" from Games Workshop to begin with? Games Workshop sells miniatures, i.e., objects. Saying that the people buying the miniatures aren't allowed to make a movie with them is as absurd as IKEA saying I can't make a movie featuring my coffee table!
Fascinating IP Policy (Score:2)
Relic just made a game for this last year. (Score:2)
If anyone wants to know... (Score:3, Informative)
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Desperately clinging for relevence (Score:2)
If it was my film i'd swap some of the characters around..throw in a semi rediculous sub plot
GW doesn't care about fans. (Score:2)
Warhammer's title has a typo. As it's a reminder of the minimal buy-in price for a decent, tournament-official army.
Warhammer $40,000
Don't get me wrong, GW's minis are the shit. But between their money-grubbing and the paint-scheme nazi fans...
FUCK...THAT...NOISE.
Don't even get me started on WHOL.
E-mail to Games Workshop (Score:5, Insightful)
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However, GW seems to not get "that Internet" thing. From discontinuing their user forums to denigrating huge fan forums such as warseer.com.
Sad really. Guess that's why I stopped buying their products.
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Lol! :D
But the point is that geography matters. They do something nasty to some guys on Germany, and all of a sudden not only a obscure groups of German fans is pissed, but people all over the world start complaining. If that doesn't cause at least a "What the Hell!?" reaction in them, I think nothing (short of actual bankruptcy) ever will.
In any case, Brazil is in fact one of the main worldwide consumers of RPG-related goods. We have widely deployed pen-and-paper monthly magazines o
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Must've grad'd from the RIAA PR school... (Score:2)
Letter to GW (Score:2)
I am writing to express my severe dissatisfaction with regard to the decision made by Games Workshop as to the organization's IP policy related to video productions. More specifically, I am concerned to hear about the process that was used to determine the company's stance with regard to the fan-produced movie Damnatus and how several years of labor from hobbists / enthusiasts was wasted producing something while internal deliberations took place.
With all due respect for the valuable
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M
GW's business plan (Score:2)
seems like bad publicity (Score:3, Insightful)
Obnoxious.... (Score:4, Interesting)
...and after finding the link to their number, 1-800-394-4263, at their Contact Page [games-workshop.com], I called to get their take on this. I asked why they'd choose to alienate their fan base like this, and was told "to protect our IP". I asked just what the rationale was for this decision, and the response once again was "to protect our IP." I asked who made the decision, and the CS rep wouldn't say, just restating that it was their IP. "I know," I told them, "but using Star Trek as an example, Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning [starwreck.com] was lovingly made by fans of ST and Bab5 as a nice spoof. They weren't sued; they were encouraged." The rep once again quietly parroted "but it's OUR IP...", and I gave up.
I'm not selling any of their material to make my money back, either. At this point, my choice is simply to burn it/melt it all down before someone else gets the infamous "FanBoi Bitchslap"....For what it's worth (not much): (Score:2)
Dear Sir or Ma'am,
I am writing in regards to your decision to withdraw permission for the release of the fan-created film Damnatus, based on your Warhammer 40,000 universe. While I understand the economic necessity of protecting your intellectual property, I also have a difficult time believing there is no acceptable license under which it is possible for a group of such obviously dedicated fans to release a work that has been four years in the making - moreover, four y
I'd consider threatening legal action. (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems ridiculous to even suggest that one should fight with the very group that inspired them, though. The whole world-wide hoopola over intellectual property we're investing so much time and anxiety into these days is totally nuts. --I've talked to teachers who tell their kids not to copy pictures out of books because it's copyright infringement. How crazy is that?
Of course, I also find it interesting to note that War Hammer is all about hyper-competitiveness, focusing every last atom of one's soul upon the annihilation of your opponents. With that kind of crazy-selfish thinking, is it any wonder GW is acting this way? "I AM THE KING OF THE HILL. MINE! ALL MINE! NOW, DIE!!!"
You don't see the Harry Potter franchise trying to stomp out fan fics. Or who knows? Maybe you do. The world is crazy enough.
-FL
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They haven't done that recently - the Potter people have learned.
Games Workshop are special, as another poster remarked, because they have been pulling these kinds of customer alienating tricks for years. I gave up on the hopeless bunch in around 1990.
Is warhammer even *legal* in Germany? (Score:2)
Disclaimers:
1) I'm opposed to the German laws in question. I believe that even Nazi's should have freedom of speech. To quote Chomsky: "Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor
Typical GW. (Score:3, Informative)
When I first started they would let you play with custom armies in-store, if you had the odd model from another dev they didn't care, if you didn't have a Terminator with a Flamer they would let you use a normal one and put a counter by it. Nowadays the staff are nazi's, they wont let you play with a badly painted army, they wont let you use other miniatures in your army, you have to have the proper model for everything (unless it's a custom conversion using their gear). They wont even let you play their old games there anymore. The higher ups only want people to see in-store what they can buy, in-store gaming is now product placement, using the unpaid kids who game there these days.
Since GW floated they have tried to screw everyone over, and a few of their big name developers walked (unsurprisingly). They are now in a catch 22; their steep price has deterred many from pursuing the hobby and they have driven away the vets (who now use Ebay). The result is lower sales, necessitating yet higher unit costs. In the not too distant future I can see them having to bail on miniature gaming altogether, and simply use their IP for video games and literature.
Talking of games - I wonder if this will have an impact on the modding scene? There are an awful lot of WH/40k themed mods, most of which directly compete with the official games (and some tabletop systems). Time will tell I guess...
They really are shooting themselves in the head with this one, utterly retarded given their predicament.
Warcraft (Score:2)
For those who don't know... (Score:2)
After 3 years, WotC ended up settling with PB for an undisclosed sum and an agreement not to mention their games again. (This is ironic considering that most of PB's claims
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'Cos that would be pretty nice of you.
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And the fun thing is that WotC got their fingers burned by a related IP case as well. I don't know if this was before or after the Palladium flap (I believe it was after), but they got caught distributing some material by Kenzer & Company without clearing it first.
Now KenzerCo is the hobby company of one David S. Kenzer, who in real life is an attorney specialising in IP law. Ouch.
From what I understand, this is how KenzerCo got to be one of the very few third parties to actually publish a fully licen
Re:Games Workshop gives fans the shaft yet again.. (Score:2)
They definitely are about gouging the fans. I have a can of $10 acrylic primer to prove it.
Re:Ahem. (Score:4, Funny)
(think I'll post this anon... the modders are more likely to mark it flamebait than my intended funny.
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