E3 Previews - Metroid 3 and Super Mario Galaxy

Although Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy were both touched on at the Nintendo press conference ... it didn't really seem like enough. Thankfully, there are plenty of hands-on writeups to satisfy interested parties. Wired's Game|Life has almost nothing but praise for Metroid. Specifically, Chris Kohler singles out the FPS controls as proving the concept for him on the system. 1up is equally pleased with Mario. They cite its unconventional nature as initially offputting, but ultimately one of the things they enjoyed most about the game. "We simply love the way the game feels. Many gamers are of the opinion that Super Mario Sunshine strayed too far from the fundamentals of the series by focusing so heavily on the water cannon/jet pack, but Galaxy puts the emphasis right back on jumping and stomping foes. The controls are tight and the graphics are crisp, if not exactly a dead ringer for top-of-the-line Xbox 360 visuals. And tiny references to games past are everywhere, from the usual coins, to Goombas of unusual size, to "?" blocks that appear as crystalline squares that can be kicked around the levels as weapons or stomped on to yield rewards."

Re:Retard!

[Warin]

ZOMG! There are a finite number of topics that can be created and Zonk is wasting them all!

Jeeze dude... if you dont like it, your mouse has a scroll button. Use it.

This is no better or worse than another article on Internet Radio, security holes, or a new mother board. One geeks garbage is another geeks treasure, no?

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[trdrstv]

Jeeze dude... if you dont like it, your mouse has a scroll button. Use it.

This is no better or worse than another article on Internet Radio, security holes, or a new mother board. One geeks garbage is another geeks treasure, no?

Exactly. Even thought it isn't the spectacle it once was, what would a reasonable person expect during E3 week?

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[Warin]

So am I. Two finger scrolling.

God I love my MacBook Pro.

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[fimbulvetr]

It's amazing what ancillary things your finger can do when you take away it's primary purpose, like a right click.

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[LKM]

Right-click on MacBook: Tap two fingers on trackpad, or hold two fingers on trackpad and click. Just so you know.

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[John Newman]

That fucking rocks. How did I never notice that?

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[fimbulvetr]

If you don't like games stories, turn the option off in your preferences, otherwise be prepared to get stories about games. Seriously, it's not very hard to do.

The stories he's posting are about games. I have games display turned on in my preferences, so I see these games stories and read at my convenience. There's a concept.

zonk is a nigger

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod me down if you think this is true.

Re:

[murderlegendre]

Well, now we know what that White Power-up does.

Re:zonk is a n....

[murderlegendre]

Sorry folks, forgot to edit the subjectline.. my bad.

When I was a kid...

[Icarus1919]

I would find flowers and then try to shoot fireballs, or I would find a feather and try to fly. Now I am a very depressed man in his mid 20's. Mario ruined my life.

Re:

[fishybell]

*HUG*

Me too :(

Re:

[steveo777]

It's okay, Cornelius, now you cry. -Robert Paulson

Re:When I was a kid...

[Anonymous Coward]

Rub this flower in your pants and you get fireballs. [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[7Prime]

Just think, you're lucky that you're not a kid today. Kids will soon be invading bee hives thinking that they're "one of the guys."

Re:

[AgentPaper]

Not long before it closed, my local CompUSA put up "help lights" throughout the store - square plastic boxes with huge red ? on them. You don't know how tempted I was to punch one and see if there were coins inside.

Based on the number of dings the boxes sustained in the four months they were up, I'm sure more than one person saw the same resemblance...

Ok so which is it?

[grapeape]

First it was suggested this morning that Nintendo was abandoning hardcore, now we are being told that two of the most "hardcore" franchises are going old school in their gameplay. Hmmm sounds like maybe Nintendo is just playing smart and going after new gamers AND the old fans, nothing wrong with that.

Re:

[grumbel]

### the old fans, nothing wrong with that.

Old fans are not always pleased with old games and old gameplay, some actually want some innovation. That sad, MarioGalaxy looks great, MetroidPrime looks to much like the GC counter parts and I already didn't like those, prefer classic 2D Metroid much more.

Re:

[Constantine XVI]

By "old fans" I think he means "disillousioned NES-era gamers" who think games have gotten way too complex.

Re:

[7Prime]

Echos and Hunters were SHIT, but Talon IV (Prime 1) was a VERY worthy successor to Zebes.

I'm skeptical of this new one. I much prefer the natural subterainian feel of the old school Metroids and Prime 1, this one seems to have too many "high tech installations." Where's my lava pools and dark, eerie caverns?

Re:

[tepples]

Where's my lava pools and dark, eerie caverns?

Why are video game characters able to come so close to a lava pool [tvtropes.org] and get hurt only on contact? True, some Metroid games have entire hot rooms that will hurt Samus without a suit upgrade, but why aren't all rooms containing lava considered "hot rooms"?

Re:

[tukkayoot]

Why are video game characters able to come so close to a lava pool and get hurt only on contact? True, some Metroid games have entire hot rooms that will hurt Samus without a suit upgrade, but why aren't all rooms containing lava considered "hot rooms"?

So they can utilize interesting, cool and dangerous-looking environments? If just getting near lava killed you, it'd be kind of pointless to have in the game. It's not that hard to suspend disbelief. I mean, if you're playing a Mario game where mushrooms m

Re:

[KDR_11k]

Samus's suit has a decent heat tolerance even without the varia upgrade? I mean, she doesn't die instantly from falling into lava so that thing can take quite some heat. Perhaps some rooms are just above the threshold while others are below?

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[tepples]

Samus's suit has a decent heat tolerance even without the varia upgrade? I mean, she doesn't die instantly from falling into lava so that thing can take quite some heat. Perhaps some rooms are just above the threshold while others are below?

Good job on a plausible explanation. But can anyone explain the ability of Mario and Link to survive hot rooms in their respective games?

Re:

[7Prime]

Well, Link has a magic red tunik that allows him to enter hot rooms. But, really, who plays any of these games for their portrayal of realism? Hell, all the series started out as (and continue to be) carefully constructed rooms with series of platforms floating in thin air. But I wouldn't trade my unrealisic floating platforms for ANYTHING though... they MAKE the platforming genre, and they make it fun. Some games attempt to portray a little more realism than others (Metroid or Halo compared to Mario) but t

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[KDR_11k]

Mario is doped up on painkillers anyway, he's probably just imagining the lava.

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[k_187]

Its caused by the same thing that lets them throw fireballs and eat mushrooms that make them grow.

I'm all for realism, but there's a line man. And you're on the wrong side of it.

Re:

[thomas.galvin]

Why are video game characters able to come so close to a lava pool and get hurt only on contact? True, some Metroid games have entire hot rooms that will hurt Samus without a suit upgrade, but why aren't all rooms containing lava considered "hot rooms"?

That site is amazing; I think I'm about to lose the next few hours browsing around. Thanks for the link.

Re:

[fimbulvetr]

You really should take the time to thank your mum for laundering that pillow you cry into every night.

Re:

[Lost Engineer]

When AC trolling/flaming, you really don't have to apologize.

Re:

[cloudwilliam]

"Zonk is a idiot"

It's *an* idiot. Dipshit.

Metroid 3 Controls

[nonsequitor]

It seemed the only negative points brought up in the Metroid review were the awkward positions of the '+', '-', '1', and '2' buttons. I have a hunch that those gripes will be addressed with the new light gun controller for the Wii introduced at E3. Anyone see a button layout for it yet? I haven't even seen a picture.

Re:

[physicsnick]

Here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Accessory_zappe r.jpg [wikipedia.org]
http://e3nin.nintendo.com/wii_accessories.html [nintendo.com]

It looks to me like holding it by gripping the forward stock would make the situation much worse. I assume you'll keep your forward thumb on top of the controller, which would make it quite easy to reach all of the buttons, but I'm not really sure how comfortable (or accurate) that will be. Still, I'm really excited about Metroid Prime 3.

Re:

[Breakfast Pants]

What good is that gun anyway if where you point the wiimote is only linearly related to where it shows up on the screen; you can calibrate it to be precise, but only if you can manage to sit in the same exact location.

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[Constantine XVI]

MP3 won't be using the Zapper (which all it really is is a shell for the wiimote+nunchuck) because of the amount of non-shooting interaction in the game.

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[grumbel]

The Zapper doesn't add any buttons, its just a plastic shell, which due to its layout makes most buttons unreachable and the nunchuks accelerometer unusable. Its basically useless for FPS and only suited for simple lightgun shooter specifically designed for it.

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[SetupWeasel]

That is not true. The nunchuk's analog stick and buttons are accessible. Also all of the Wiimote's buttons are accessible for any of many non immediate functions. All you really need to do in battle in an FPS is run (analog stick), point (wiimote pointer), shoot (B trigger), maybe jump (Z trigger), and maybe change weapons (C button). Changing weapons, using non combat items or devices, or even reloading could be set to the wiimote. It would force your hand off the trigger, but I don't see a problem with th

Re:

[Fex303]

That is not true. The nunchuk's analog stick and buttons are accessible.

The OP was talking about the accelerometer in the nunchuk. This is the thing that lets it know what angle it is being held at and whether it's being shaken, etc. It's currently used in a number of games (eg. To shield slam in Zelda you push the nunchuk at the screen.) In the zapper it's useless since the nunchuk is fixed to the wiimote and so we know it's orientation already.

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[SetupWeasel]

I was contending that it would not be useless for an FPS game.

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[Fex303]

I see. This is why I tend to blockquote compulsively - it avoids mixups like this one. In any case you make a fair point, once I'm aware of what you're talking about. :)

Re:

[grumbel]

You might be able to design an extra simplistic game that works with the Zapper. But way should you when you could use the whole 'power' of the Wiimote and the Nunchuk instead? The Wiimote already lacks buttons as it is, just look at Metroid which even makes use of the nearly unreachable 1 and 2 buttons, using the zapper just would be even more restrictive. Just look at the current FPS line-up, I don't think the Zapper would work with any of that.

Re:

[ShaggyIan]

The + and - aren't too bad, but the 1 and 2 buttons suck. Have to dislocate your thumb to get down to them.

The only thing they work "well" on so far are when you turn the whole thing sideways and hold it like an NES controller.

Metroid != FPS

[ErfC]

I wish people would quit calling the Metroid Prime series a "First Person Shooter". It's not. It's actually a very faithful 3D rendition of the platform jumper genre, but with the first-person POV, highly unusual in that genre -- it's a FPPV, not an FPS. (I actually hate FPSs, but Metroid Prime is my favourite Gamecube game.)

There are two reasons this mislabelling bugs me. First, it could easily scare off the target audience; I know people who had no intention of playing the game until they saw me pla

Re:

[7Prime]

Amen.

However, it's tough because the Metroid series started as a conglomerate of many genres:

- it had the intense action of a shooter
- it had the jumping of a platformer
- it had the non-linear and non-episodic structure of an adventure game
- one could also equate it's health and item pickups to giving it RPG-like qualities

The Prime series is EXTREMELY faithful (IMO) to the original side scrollers, Prime 1 probably even slightly edging out Super Metroid as my favorite in the series. But with that territory c

Re:

[ErfC]

Those are good points -- Metroid does cross a lot of boundaries. I think the reason I'd put Metroid and Zelda in different genres is that there's a lot more emphasis in Metroid on how to get from point A to point B -- navigating platforms, in fact, as well as ledges and tracks and things. Aside from that distinction, though, they do have similar gameplay; the distinction is fuzzy, and probably a matter of taste. I could be convinced.

Looks like Wikipedia agrees with you [wikipedia.org], too.

Re:Metroid != FPS

[7Prime]

I'll shoot...

In the Zelda overworld, you are correct, there isn't much emphasis in how to get from point A to point B (although there is some) but inside dungeons, the gameplay becomes VERY similar. Navigating dungeons in Twilight Princess, for instance, isn't really that different from navigating Norfair or Phendrana. There are subtle differences: keys and dungeon items, instead of "activating the elevator" in Metroid; but these aren't genre defining differences, more like slightly different storytelling devices that basically do the same thing.

Basically, Metroid is like Zelda if there were ONLY dungeons and no overworld. The differences between a Zelda overworld and a dungeon, however, can be fairly minor, in many cases. Sometimes getting to the dungeon takes about the same kinds of navigational skills and enemy killing as the actual dungeons themselves. But, again, I don't see these as genre defining differences. Final Fantasy IX and Grandia II are both considered RPGs, even though Grandia II doesn't have an overworld.

To me, both Zelda and Metroid are in the same category because they cross genres in a similar manner. The mixture is a bit different: Metroid has more action and navigation, Zelda has more puzzles and NPC interaction, but just in different amounts.

Here's the kicker, generally, fans of one game are also into the other game, and for similar reasons. Sure, you'll find one person who hates Zelda and loves Metroid, or vice-versa, but usually its because they have some stick up their ass about the stylistic principals behind one, not because they don't like "that kind of game."

The action/adventure genre, as it is, is sort of a grabbag of genres. There are much fewer cliches than in any other genre, so there are fewer common things to pin them down with. All RPGs have HP/MP and a skill system, all FPSs have similar gameplay, all RTSs have some sort of "mine the gold so you can build the jellopy." Where as action/adventures like Zelda, Metroid, and Castlevania (another series that fits easily within this category), don't have as many concrete ideas that tie them all together. But it's their willingness to mix multiple genres that makes them action/adventure games in the first place.

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[ErfC]

Yeah, okay, that sounds good. Different feel to the game, but yeah, so much of the game play is overlapping that they really do belong in the same genre.

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[CastrTroy]

I have Metroid Prime, and I love the game, but I got to one part where it was really far between save points, and no matter how many times I tried, I couldn't make it past all the enemies, even by reading walk-throughs and stuff. It became very frustrating very fast when I would play for about half an hour, only to die and have to start all over at the last save point. I like Zelda quite a bit more, because there's not so many instances where you can die. And when you make a small mistake and die, you us

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[trdrstv]

I have Metroid Prime, and I love the game, but I got to one part where it was really far between save points, and no matter how many times I tried, I couldn't make it past all the enemies, even by reading walk-throughs and stuff. It became very frustrating very fast when I would play for about half an hour, only to die and have to start all over at the last save point.

Exactly. A poor save system can really break a game. You should NEVER have to search for a save point after defeating a "Boss". I think MP

Re:

[7Prime]

I never had a problem with save areas in MP. Well, maybe once, after I defeated Theardis, I was down to bawlz health, and then died immediately afterwards, but by that time, I'd figured out how to beat him, and defeated him easilly.

I'd love to see them release it for the Wii... but nothing would save MP2, that game was crap.

Jumping Flash

[tepples]

I suspect it's just because FPPs are rare -- are there any first-person platformers out there besides the Metroid Prime series?)

Jumping Flash [wikipedia.org]?

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[moderatorrater]

Yes, the first person perspective and the shooting threw the rest of us off. Thanks for the correction.

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[ErfC]

Yes, the first person perspective and the shooting threw the rest of us off.

Actually, yes, that's my whole point. There's more to the FPS genre than the superficial interface and whether your character has a gun. It's about gameplay, emphasis, probably intensity. Genre lines are blurry, but I think misclassifying this game does it a disservice.

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[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I wish people would quit calling the Metroid Prime series a "First Person Shooter"..."

I hear ya. It also annoys me that people keep calling the iPhone a phone even though it's really just an MP3 player you can make calls with. And don't even get me started on people calling the Matrix a sci-fi when it's clearly a live-action anime!!!

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[ErfC]

Wow. How the heck did that get modded "troll"? Did I stumble on some kind of holy war?

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[Breakfast Pants]

I wish people would stop calling the Metroid Prime series a "FPPV". It's not. Have you seen the ball mode? That's 3rd-person!! People like you make one think the whole game is from some sort of first person point of view; it makes me sick! I can't believe it--this mislabeling it bugs me to no end! It is actually a 3rdPVPARFPPV, gahhh1!

Dissapointed

[Xest]

...at Nintendo's E3 lineup in general this year.

The biggest problem is that the games they're showing off at E3 now, are the games we were originally promised at the Wii's release, and then in March, and now at the end of the year.

Apart from Wii sports I really don't find much reason to play my Wii now, I don't mind Rayman, but we're talking 30minutes or so once a month kind of thing here. I'm convinced this will change with the Wii becoming the number one console in terms of games line up by Christmas 2008, but for Christmas this year the Wii still remains mediocre.

MS seems to have won the games lineup for this christmas by a longshot, Sony second place, mostly with games that are dual-platform 360/PS3 and Nintendo trailing behind with games that were due out a year before and nothing much particularly new or terribly intersting. I think the difficulty for Nintendo is the fact that games do have to be written/re-written specifically for the Wii, whereas Sony/MS can live off each other's successes with ports across similarly powered hardware with similar control systems. The Wii has a lot of backers however, so this reinforces my view that given some period of time the Wii's lineup will be strengthened heavily, hence my comment that I'm placing my bets on Christmas 2008 for the Wii to really shine.

I'm definitely looking forward to these two games still, the problem is, I was looking forward to them far more in the lead up to last Christmas. Regardless, Nintendo themselves have nothing to worry about, the Wii is selling well now and even if sales did drop they've got a plenty big enough warchest to keep themselves going until they can start throwing out the heavyweight titles that everyone wants.

Re:

[DaSH Alpha]

I was disappointed also since there weren't really any new games announced for either Wii or DS. I'm still waiting for them to announce Pilotwiings, maybe they're waiting until the Wii game lineup gets in another lull (not counting this summer; yeah, I'm still waiting for Metroid, then Mario and Smash; Paper Mario is the only game I got this year I think)?

Re:

[AngelWind]

Apart from Wii sports I really don't find much reason to play my Wii now

Do you have a GameCube? If not, then you can probably find plenty of GameCube games that you would be interested in that you never played or missed during its tenure. I know this is all supposed to be about the next-gen of games, but from the comments I see it's like people forget past the Virtual Console that it can play GameCube games too. For $25 you can have a used controller and a memory card and be good to go. Used GameCube games will probably run you $10-$25 if you don't want to rent.

Metroid 3?

[pat_trick]

Man, I got all excited that they were releasing Metroid 3 for the Wii Virtual Console or something.

Then I realized it was Metroid Prime 3. Sadness.