The Latest From the Front in the Console Wars 284
The October NPD numbers are out, and (now that we know we'll keep getting the information) it's time once again for analysis and reaction from media and businesses alike. GameDaily has a one year later look at the fight that began last holiday season. As for the numbers themselves, with Halo 3 now a known quantity in the market the 360 is down to 366,000 from 527,800 in September. Microsoft is still quite happy with software sales, though. The PS3 only saw 121,000 units sold last month, but early news from November has Sony very excited. And all the while, somehow, the Wii manages to sell even more units. The system is up to 519,000 from 501,000 in September, with the DS slight down to 458,000 from 495,800. As the GameDaily analysis article concludes: "the race for console dominance is still anyone's to win. The 2007 holiday buying season will be crucial to setting all three players' market positions going into next year. Which is all nice to know, of course, but not that important to actually enjoying your system of choice well into the future."
Wiiiii! (Score:2, Interesting)
I disagree.
Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Interesting)
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It would be very possible. I got a wii about 2 months ago and I've bought a single wii game since then. I want to buy more, I eagerly scan the videogame store shelf every week, but the games tend to be underwhelming at best.
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Mario Strikers
Excite Truck
RE4:Wii
Warioware
Eledees
Super Paper Mario
and I'm looking forward to Super Smash Bros Brawl, Battalion Wars 2, Mario Kart Wii and maybe Resident Evil:UC.
Re:Wiiiii! (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this statement alone sheds light on your entire misguided post.
--Jeremy
Re:Wiiiii! (Score:4, Informative)
Count yourself lucky you have a Wii, I can't buy one in the UK for love nor money. The shops in London all get small batches which sell out on the day they come in.
For games, check out the Wii section of Metacritic [metacritic.com]. If you stick with only the green rated games, you're looking at Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Resident Evil 4, Metroid and Zack & Wiki as 5 to start off with.
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Re:Wiiiii! needs more casual games. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's Ironic that Nintendo captured the casual market and yet there are very few games for them, they either fall under the "core-gamer category" (RE4, Metroid3, etc...) or the "Shovelware" (Too many to mention actually) category. I own a Wii with something like 15 Wii games, and 2 dozen VC games. I love it, and play it often. My parents enjoyed WiiSports so much they wanted one of their own for when they have company over. They are as "non-gamer" as can be, but are not opposed to buying games anymore as long as they appeal to them. To date they only have 3 games (WiiSports, WiiPlay, and Tiger Woods 08) and 1 VC game (PacMan). Occasionally I bring over Rayman RR, or Excitetruck and we play them a little, but that's it. They are both retired, have time and money available to them, but there is simply not a selection of games they find appealing.
Nintendo is moving units to casual gamers, but they (and 3rd parties) need to recognize this largely untapped market and deliver some games they want to buy! Guitar Hero Helps, so does DDR, and Karaoke games, but what about SuDoKu, or NY Times Crossword puzzles...
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Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Using your qualifications, Nintendo won with the Gamecube as well since it was always profitable. Really, the market can support 3 winners. A loser is going to be someone who is forced out of the market. All 3 look strong enough to last another round after this one.
I think you're talking about the difference between the battle and the war. Nintendo is looking to be the winner of this round, with Microsoft and Sony fighting over second and third place. Of course things may very well reverse with the next generation of consoles, after all Nintendo was a distant third in the previous generation with Sony the undisputed champion. By your criteria no companies besides Sega and Atari have ever lost (and maybe not even then, Sega is still in business and making games, just
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Also, as an FF fan, I can say XIII will be the first FF I don't buy - Not worth spending the money on a PS3 for.
Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)
The "big games" are still all aimed at the PS3 and the 360 because that's where the gamers will end up. The Wii could end up moving the most hardware, but end up selling fewer games than the PS3 or the 360. That's the danger of selling your console to a very, very casual set of gamers who might never feel the need to buy another game for their console after they've found one they enjoy diddling with.
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It is still hard to find a wii at stores. They are still going for way above retail at amazon. And that's not bundles. I don't think with
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(I can think of more gamers I know that have Wiis than have and/or want PS3s, and even more than want Wiis than those that want 360s/PS3s combined.
I know a few non-gamers that want Wiis, none that want PS3s, and only a couple that want 360s.
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I generally am not a gamer, but I love Halo. I bought a 360 the other day just to play Halo3. $450 for a fscking video game... Geeze. On the bright side, I still don't have to consider more RAM, or the latest top end video card for my PC because I don't need it to support games there, so I suppose it's a wash.
-nB
The Wii's dirty little secert. (Score:2)
The Wii is still a big hit and is still the thing for Christmas this year. My wife is on several scrapbooking message boards. This of sort of like slashdot for moms. Guess what they are all trying to find for there kids this Christmas? It isn't the PS3. Now for the really bad news. The women on these boards love the Wii! Some of them are "test" playing it themselves
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Take a look at the "Must have" list for the Wii. I am seeing more and more titles that people will buy for the Wii and keep. If the soccer moms like the games and then the kids find games they like it becomes a huge win.
When Nintendo came out with the DS I thought that was the DUMBEST idea ever. I figured Sony was going to eat there lunch. I was so wrong.
When Ninte
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How many players per PC? (Score:2)
Games aside, I could build a computer that did everything the PS3 does, hook up a controller to it, and have the exact same experience.
How many controllers can you hook up to your PC with TV output? Sure, you can connect four through the USB hub, but too many PC games will read only one controller. This is because their multiplayer modes are designed for the LAN or Internet use case, in which each player has purchased his own PC and his own copy of the game. That doesn't work too well for households with multiple children or for family parties. So a family that already has one PC can buy a PS3 for $500, three extra SIXAXIS controllers f
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Easy: the games suck.
No, seriously. The Wii is a gimmick system. Therefore, a few games are going to nail the gimmick, such as Metroid Prime, or Wii Sports. The rest are either bad ports of games on other systems that try to force the gimmick on you, or shitty "casual" games put out by people trying to crash the casual market, a-la 1983. The DS is in the same boat; a few winners, a shitload of losers, to the point where Electronic Gaming Monthly
Re:Wiiiii! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, actually. Because Nintendo made a profit on the Wii from Day #1. As other console manufacturers optimize their manufacturing costs to produce their consoles at a lower loss (or simply reduce the street price and take the same loss), Nintendo's profit margins simply grow as they optimize their processes. Thus Nintendo "wins" regardless.
The real question is, what happens to the game producers? The argument exists that if the Wii wins, all we'll end up with is Mario and Wii Sports. To which I think it's important to turn around that argument and look at it from another angle. Nintendo currently has about 14 million consoles out there, and a shipped Wii is effectively a sold Wii. Thus the Wii presents a tremendous opportunity to game producers.
This huge market payed $250 for Wii Sports. As a game producer, it then becomes your job to understand that market and produce more content for it. More to the point, it becomes the job of game producers to produce content that the market wants. Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.
The best part? You don't even have to spend tens of millions on the game! A sizable sum of Wii players are attracted to casual games, which have far, far lower budgets than the so-called "triple-A" titles. Perhaps this generation could even see the downloadable game surpassing the sales of the traditional shrink-wrapped game. (If Nintendo ever gets off their butts and offers WiiWare games, that is.
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There has to be a lot of one gamer families that got a Wii (of course maybe 360 is cheap
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Wii players are less likely to want Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty 4. (Oh look, another military FPS! Who would have thought?) So stop trying to sell them the same games you've been selling teenage boys, and start doing some market research. Make games that are compelling to the casual market, and you will win.
Actually that's not even entirely true. One of my favorite games so far has been Metroid Prime 3, which is arguably yet another FPS. The big difference however is that it isn't a retooled and hastily assembled port of some existing FPS, but rather one that was built from the ground up to work well with the control scheme of the Wii. Customers want a game that has a decent design, but more importantly one that respects and understands the controls the Wii can provide. As a counter example look at Lair for
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Nintendo is in a very good position right now, but if you ask me, they already need to be looking to the next console/upgrade. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking to make this console generation a long one, and consumers will probably expect it with the kind of investment they made in a console. Nintendo, however, is in a position where they could reasonably offer some kind of incremental upgrade to the Wii in a few years (not to mention adding say, colors and DVD support). A backwards-compatible Wii2 co
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Historically, Nintendo has marketed their systems to kids (including me; I'm just a big 30-year old kid). Think about all of the trouble that MySpace, Facebook, and others get from the media and government when a child predator gets his hands on a minor. My sense is that Nintendo would prefer to avoid even 1 story about a pedophile using the Wii to prey on children, even if it means not treating t
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Part of me thinks that if parents are really so worried about children's access to the internet like that, then there should just be no E-rated games that have online support (as fun as Mario Kart DS is). I don't quite understand the fervor over this. To date myself (as fairly recent), I was playing games on Battle.net when I was a kid, and I don't remember any public outcry against it. Same for Xbox Live.
Are stupid stories like Nintendo DS predators or the "Playstation Pornable" just artifacts of recen
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They did that in Metroid Prime 2, largely due to the rather vocal "It's an FPS and I won't play an FPS without multiplayer" crowd. The people that used lack of multiplayer as their excuse for not playing still didn't like the game, as the single player nothing like an
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There is still Metal Gear solid though...
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I'm not so sure about the effect of FF will have on PS3. Sure, it will sell alot of hardware for sony, but I remember square annoncing that there will be multiple versions of FF13 for nearly all platforms. The main or 'real' FF13 is still exclusive to the PS3, but if you also have multiple spin off on the wii, xbox and even ds (if I remember well), the effect it will have on sony hardware sale will not be as important as in the past generation, IMO.
There is still Metal Gear solid though.../quote>
Ever play any of the mainline spin offs of FF (FFX-2).. yeah.... I doubt that has any impact. People buy the mainline. Spin offs cash in but aren't the same.
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From what I understand (and I could be mistaken) Nintendo actually makes money on the Wii hardware. So yea, they probably make out pretty well regardless.
If more companies would start making good games for the huge Nintendo install base I think you would see more games being purchased. I think there is a lot of money to be made on the Wii both in traditional games and in cheaper, smaller games. I'm a big fan of Wii sports but I would probably pay 20-30 bucks each for a more fully fleshed out version of e
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And its amazing that over a year after the introduction, people still wait in lines to get Wii's. I just happened to go to the store on the right day and got mine..
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Halo is a sci-fi first person shoot everything game. Galaxy is a time your jump find all the stars while doing fun acrobatic movements game.
Two very VERY different games.
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That is what makes a better game.
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Exactly. You can't make that comparison.
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People still Like Beethoven, does that make him a better artist then Justin Timberlake? I contend it does.
More people are into Timberlake then Beethoven. Does that mean anything? I think Pachabels Cannons is the most perfect song in all existence but sometimes I need to put on some NIN. They're different beasts, both have qualities and values and while we may not play Closer 500 years from now it is still a good song. Cannons and Closer both capture a portion of what it is to be human. Even the syrupy love songs by bland generic pop stars have some value.
The thing about people playing Super Mario, it's nostalg
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Grease: movie adoptation of a musical that inspired multiple movies and stage revivals over decades, has sold strong for decades in multiple video and audio formats, nominated for multiple awards including an Oscar. According to IMDB, cost approximately $6M. Grossed $181M in the US for the 20th anniversary re-release, with $93M in rentals.
Children of Men: a movie adoptation of a book. No sequels to the book or movie. Nominated for many more awards (though in the interest of fairness, there
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Hell, people still play counterstrike. It's not that unlikely that Halo will last forever.
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Why is this modded Troll? Since the Wii has sold the most systems worldwide in this generation (IE: more than the PS3 and 360), and it continues to outsell their competitors by a considerable margin every month (they were only slightly beat out during the Halo 3 launch) wouldn't it be appropriate to say the race is "Nintendo's to lose" ?
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Coupled with the fact that the Wii is more profitable than the other two consoles, it's a done deal. Nintendo's won this round.
IBM (Score:5, Insightful)
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Wii - A passing fad? (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess it all boils down to the type of software made for a particular system, but the article's analysis of software attach rate was interesting in that the Wii's is so low. I do continue to buy games for my 360 even 2 years later (Gears of War, PGR 4, Halo 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, AC etc) yet nothing but Mario would interest me on the Wii right now. Many of my friends have the same opinions and the initial fad of playing Wii sports has worn off. Plus, its pretty bad that the most popular game on your system is the one you give away for free with the system (yes, everyone has it so they likely try it, but still, in my experience it was by far the most fun to be had on the Wii at least through when I gave the console back to my friend).
Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:4, Interesting)
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I've got a limited number of TV inputs, and the Wii recently lost out to my original Xbox, because I wanted to play RalliSport Challenge 2. It's a fun system, but there's not a lot of software out that's great out there. If its titles were all $20, I'd buy more of them (as I did with the DS).
I do want to try Super Mario Galaxy as well as Zack and Wiki.
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Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, a year after launch and the consoles are still selling off the store shelves in hours. I know some fads can be long, but a year? If it was a fad, and everyone got bored with it quickly, wouldn't there be a huge used market for them? I know they can be found on eBay and everywhere else, but not in huge quantities that a fad would imply.
I think that a lot of the "hardcore" gamers don't like the changes in gameplay that the Wii has. It isn't familiar to them, or they are offended that there are not more twitch FPS or RTS games for the Wii so it "obviously" isn't geared towards them. Instead people that were turned off by the twitch games are picking it up and enjoying it.
So it might be a fad for people that camp out overnight to get the latest and greatest consoles, but it is a hit with people that want to have some fun with a game and not just have the latest game to beat, or who want to play who has the bigger... frame rate.
Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:4, Insightful)
I could say the same thing about every game available on every other platform, but replace controls with slightly better graphics. And while the Wii type controls have been available in specialized arcade games, this is the first usable play at home system. So personally I've spent more on Wii disk games than any other console, maybe more on Wii VC games (I kind of dread to add that up), and I fully expected to reward Nintendo for wanting to produce a good games console instead of a good number crunching machine.
I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".
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I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have it's faults, but to pretend all the "hardcore" gamers have your opinion of it is just wishful thinking on your part. I'll be much happier if both the Xbox-360 and PS3 die horribly in the marketplace, as then we might actually get quality games and innovation in the next gen. instead of "Ohh, we have X% more polys for Y% more $".
I'd prefer if all 3 have a good solid run. Monopolies are never good for gamers. I think a game like katamari damacy is much more innovative then wario ware, mario party, Zelda:TP, Metroid 3. That game exists on the360 and PS2. So your sort of got a skewed view of innovation. The Wii has potential but even the first party titles aren't tapping into it that much.
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Come on.
And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.
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You are right. There have never been FPS games or RTS games like ones on the PS3.
Come on.
And I believe the rate of game purchase, but at the same time will point out that the PS3 has huge 3rd party contributors while the Wii does not. I would even bet that the rate of new games is probably close to 3 to 1 for PS3 to Wii. That should be changing next year as more games are released for the Wii after the developers realized they missed the boat on the popularity of it.
Tell me what was the last movie you really enjoyed. Now tell me how innovative it was. Chances are it's basically the same story as a dozen other movies but just done well. Tell me the last experimental college film you really enjoyed? Innovation is often fun when it's small and incremental and followed by a lot of polish. Innovation itself does not induce fun and innovation is often terrible. Lair did have a innovative control system but done really poorly.
A game like assassins creed is innovative in a nu
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Just sold mine (Score:3, Interesting)
I have to say the Wii is the most varied and interesting console playing experience I've come across. It has games that focus on the wiimote, some of them are good, a lot of them are gimmicky. People who only play those, are going to be disappointed eventually. But i
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Irritatingly, the Gamecube version of the game kept the redesigned item menu instead of using a menu that actually works well on a controller.
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I gave up after getting creamed in the deathstar trench a few times.
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You continue to buy FPS games for your 360 two years later. Is that because you mainly like FPS games or because that's mainly what the 360 has to offer?
I've enjoyed my Wii, but agree there's still a lack of games. Outside of Wii Sports, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and RE4 I still haven't found much to be interested in. I also own a 360 and outside of Live Arcade, Dead Rising, and assorted other games I still haven't found much to be interested in with it either (not a FPS fan in the least). Each system seem
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I'd say the same thing about Pixar movies. Calling them childrens movies simply isn't accurate.
Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:5, Insightful)
Then Resident Evil and Madden came out and suddenly I was aiming my screen to shoot Ganados, throwing lobs and zip passes with my right hand, swatting balls out of the air with my hands, pulling interceptions down with my hands, and putting big hits on runners using my arms...and those were just the first attempts by third parties to integrate motion control into "normal" games.
I no longer fear that the Wii's motion control is a passing fad or gimmick. I think it's here to stay and be improved on in the next-generation consoles.
Re:Wii - A passing fad? (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to be the kind of person to upgrade my PC every other month just because I wanted the latest in graphics and processing, but after a while (it took me 2 or 3 years
Now it's kind of the same thing but with Wii vs other consoles... I could keep upgrading (and I did buy a PS3 and 360 as well, so I wouldn't miss out on anything) but I just have more fun playing different and more innovative games on the Wii.
I've got over 22 games on the Wii now and a scant 3 on PS3 (VF5, R&C:F, Darkness) and 3 on 360 (Katamari, Halo 3, Bioshock). On the Wii I still go back and play Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, Trauma Center, Super Monkey Ball, I still even play SSB:M, and still play Wii Sports and of couse now am very into Mario Galaxy.
See, there ARE gamers that just want to play the same games over and over with slightly better graphics, but they're obsessed with a few genres that they simply want to play in a perfect form because that's what really appeals to them. However, most other gamers want a wide variety of experiences and don't really care to play the same couple of games re-made and perfected over time while paying a ton of cash for new console versions or new game versions.
This is in fact what would even draw your average person into games, a wide variety of easily accessible yet deep experiences. With games like Excite Truck or Mario Galaxy or Trauma Center, or Monkey Ball, gamers can have casual fun with it yet they can also choose to get as deep as they want into the game perfecting their ability to play it and discovering the nuances and strategies, but they don't have to, and they can just have casual fun with them as well.
I think that games that keep getting re-made and obsess on a few tiny details and aren't genre-bending or genre-evolving are the fads, and you can tell by the amount of clones that keep popping up to cash in until the genres ram into the ground.
Halo 3 is fun but Halo 2 was just as fun. R&C:F is fun, but so were the first 3 games. On the Wii I'm seeing a lot more new stuff that keeps me hooked. Other systems just don't hold my interest.
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Very few games are innovative. Super Monkey Ball was innovative for example, but Super Mario was essentially the same concept as lode runner if you think about it. Qbert may quality as innovative. The first light-gun game (duck hunt?) may have been innovative.
I don't expect innovative games, I expect long-term fun and engaging games. When I bought Ratch
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One problem is that you're probably not the target market. People that aren't in a target market are too quick to write off something that's not for them, because they have this fallacy that they themselves represent the typical buyer for the product.
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Back to the Mario franchise - they came out swinging with these games. They are amazing. Also, Mario Strikers Charged. The game play is a blast on all of these and the graphics are great for
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Sony and MS would kill for an IP like Mario. It's not going to be any harder for anyone to come up with a new IP for the Wii than it will be for the PS3 or the 360.
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Sony has an IP that, while not nearly as popular as Mario, doesn't do too badly on its own. They call it Ratchet & Clank.
Unfortunately, Sony has another studio (Insomniac Games) producing this series rather than producing it themselves.
C'mon Sony, do better (Score:3, Funny)
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Wii (Score:3, Interesting)
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Metroid was first party. Nintendo has owned Retro Studios 100% since early in the development of the game - about the time it switched from 3rd person to 1st person.
HAL Labs and Intelligent Systems are also Nintendo 1st party studios. I think there's a few others as well.
This is an insipid console war (Score:2, Insightful)
They obviously don't make console wars like this any more:
http://advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=10303 [advancedmn.com]
Politics, idiocy, CEOs engaging in childish name calling, censorship, back firing strategies....
Mod me down for being slightly off topic, but know this: I am right to wallow in nostalgia.
Dated thinking (Score:4, Insightful)
There was a time when this was an issue. When disposable incomes were lower. When gaming was mostly for kids. When there weren't multiple demographics interested in different kinds of gaming. When a console wasn't also an Internet device and a media (music and movies) device as well.
Now, the game has changed. There is room for an inexpensive console with novelty appeal, health-conscious appeal, and appeal to kids-- and still room for a midrange console with testosterone games for the fratboy crowd-- and still room for a high-end machine with a scary sticker price but very impressive graphics, a blu-ray player, and the occasional hit exclusive game.
Nintendo increasing Wii production (Score:5, Informative)
That's 21.6 million per year, or over 100 million in just 5 years. If they keep this up, they might even catch up with the PS2!
Where is the swordfighting game for Wii (Score:3, Interesting)
What I want to know is, when the hell is someone going to make the sword/lightsaber game for the Wii that we've all been waiting for. This comes up every now and then and the apologists all jump out and say "Errors in the motion sensors add up so you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movements, blah, blah, blah."
Which is all a bunch of BS. OK you can't make perfect 1 to 1 movement with perfectly free movement of the sword, but you don't need to! I've already seen "good enough" control to make the sword/lightsaber game possible!
Go load up Wii Sports. Choose Baseball for 2 players (so you can play around without a pitch coming). Grab the control for the batter and tip/twirl the Wiimote around over your shoulder. Notice how the Mii tips/twirls the bat just like you? Now, just change it from a bat to a sword, move it from over-the-shoulder to waist level in front of the player, and put the camera behind the Mii (KOTOR style). There, you just made the greatest sword game ever without even doing anything clever.
And of course there's bound to be lots of clever stuff you can figure out like motion capturing a bunch of kids playing with fake swords (with wiimotes embedded) so you can map the wiimote acceleration profiles to expected real life movements. Or correcting for the small integration errors whenever the wiimote happens to swing past the sensor bar. That's just icing on the cake that makes the control even closer to what's expected.
Yeah the control will never be exactly 1 to 1. Olympic fencers will be pissed off that they can't get the millimeter perfect movements they use. Everyone else will be wildly flailing their swords with big broad movements so as long a the sword goes left when they swing left it will be fine. The players' hand/eye coordination will adjust to what the game will actually do. Players already adjust to controls that are much less intuitive/realistic. Just throw in a few easy "whack the pinata" levels at the beginning and I bet people will subconsciously adjust themselves in no time.
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Wii won't scale (Score:2)
A friend of mine, also a 360 owner, just bought a Wii. I'll be interested to see how long the system remains active, and how many titles he buys.
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More importantly, how many of the Wii games that he buys are Nintendo titles? 3rd party publishers are getting the impression that people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, and that's that.
One happy camper (Score:2, Interesting)
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They can meet the DS demand shortly after they sold out (different product, I know) and for the most part, they've been good about meeting demands in the past (after inital shortages)... the Wii having shortages into
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Wi, Wii, Wiii (Score:2)
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It's not supposed to be 1:1; it's just supposed to be a reasonably intuitive interface.
Who are you to make proclamations about a "real gamer"? I've been playing video games for thirty years, on pretty much every platform, I've got a PS3, I've got a PS2 and a gamecube, I've got a dedicated multicore machine I got to run video games on, and when I'm not too busy with work, I game 40-60 hours a week.
The Wii is the best gaming console I've ever had. Seems to me the