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Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Launches 159

darkwing_bmf writes "Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition rulebooks are now available. There's a review up at EuroGamer. Unfortunately, the online tools portion, D&D Insider, isn't ready yet."
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Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Launches

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  • Actually, it doesn't. The previously existing stereo types are gone. You would have to go out of your way to fill one.

    Having played the game, I can same that it is really fun.
    I can also say it is not the same game. It is completly focused on minis, and what you can do as far as moving other players and yourself has added an interesting level of tactics to the game.
    The Alignment systems works very well.

    from what I had heard about the game I wasn't really looking forward to it, but having actually played the mechanics and the game, I found it to be really fun.

    Normally I don't participate in the 'I've been doing it for x years' circle jerk, but since I feel it is relevant to the context of the post I am going to make an exception.
    I have been playing DnD for it's entire history, including pre-ADnD. I also have played all the other 'major' systems and I find Savage Worlds to be the superiour RP gaming system.

  • by Joe Mucchiello ( 1030 ) on Friday June 06, 2008 @04:23PM (#23686909) Homepage
    Funny, I spent about $70 on new books when 3.5 came out. After about 12-15 hours of gaming, I probably broke even compared to seeing a movie with friends, buying drinks with friends, going to dinner with friends, etc. I don't play often but name something else you can do with 4-5 other people for $70 that can last hundreds of hours. I can't see how anyone could complain about their money's worth.

    RPGs have always been about splatbooks. 4e really isn't any different here.
  • Re:Not a review (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland&yahoo,com> on Friday June 06, 2008 @04:27PM (#23686973) Homepage Journal
    I want to say Mod up, but honestly I can't think of what any of the local game stores has done for me or my kids.
    I'm not trolling here, and I usually share your sentimate but honestly the last time I went into one My main goal was to get my son out as fast as possible. What a bunch of foul mouthed SOBs.

    Gaming stores aren't for people who want to run a business, they're for people who want to show off their gaming collection.
  • by Samy Merchi ( 1297447 ) on Friday June 06, 2008 @04:37PM (#23687125) Homepage
    I'm probably going to pass. A lot of the changes make it "not D&D" for me. It's like learning a completely new game system, like moving on to GURPS or Rolemaster or what have you. Everybody can heal themselves? That's not D&D, you're *supposed* to have a cleric (or a druid, or a bard, or a paladin, or potions) for healing. That's the whole point of the D&D flavor. You can cast magic missile infinite times per day? That's not D&D, you're *supposed* to have a limited number of zots for blasting. That's the whole point of the D&D flavor. Now, I'm not saying these are *bad* changes. I'm fully open to the idea that they may make the game flow better and so on. I'm just saying it's like moving on to a completely different game system. And I haven't been convinced why I should do that when I'm enjoying my 3.5 games highly.
  • Re:Not a review (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 ) <slebrun AT gmail DOT com> on Friday June 06, 2008 @04:57PM (#23687393) Journal

    Well hell, $60 in 1980 is the equivalent of about $170 now.

    $60 dollars now was around $21 in 1980.

    Seems like a deal to me!

  • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday June 06, 2008 @05:26PM (#23687757)

    . The problem with alignment (with bad role players anyway) is that it reinforces trite stereotypes. This just gives you fewer trite stereotypes to choose from.

    The problem with alignment was it started moving towards this a while ago with LG - G - CG - LN - N - CN - LE- NE - CE becoming a single spectrum. It made it difficult to play a saintly Robin Hood type because for some reason respect for the law (which became confounding with one owns organizational qualities), became compounded with goodness.

    While it certainly could be used as a crutch by poor roleplayers, that's not a bad thing. Everyone needs time to learn to roleplay, and the CG/LE removed variants provided nice dilemmas. And, if not that crutch, bad roleplayers will fall into character/race archeotypes anyway.

    Personally, I would rather have seen the alignments expand so that you could be Goodish/Evilish/Lawfulish/Chaoticish. Not enough to get affected by spells/effects that target people with that alignment, but enough to give people a clue as to how you lean.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 06, 2008 @06:31PM (#23688589)
    Last night bought the books and played RPGA with pregen'd characters, it was fun.

    If (?) you like to whine, whine about this: Druids and Barbarians are GONE. Spell scrolls are gone. Grey elves are now the whipping boys of the racial soup IMHO.

    The statement about clerics being nonessential is misleading. Everyone gets 6-9 healing surges. Once per encounter everyone can get back 1/4th their max HP using a standard action. But once per encounter didn't go far in our adventure. We depended heavily on our cleric and paladin for healing in every combat, in almost every round after the first. Clerics and warlords can heal you using a minor action (think swift action), it uses one of your surges that you cannot otherwise use. Paladins have at-will powers that allow them to attack and grant you temporary hit points or defense bonuses at the same time, and they can spend surges to heal you.

    There are two new classes- Warlocks and Warlords. In the new scheme Wizards (formerly known as sorcerors) get the area effects and line-of-effect attacks, Warlocks get attacks that target only one foe but readily exploit its defensive weaknesses. (My Level 1 Warlock had 3 At-will powers, one vs Fortitude, one vs Reflex, and one vs Will. So I was a threat to bricks and blasters alike.) Warlords grant other nearby party members immediate actions and help them heal. Fighters get powers that combine a weapon attack with pushing foes around, knockdown, or allow others to retreat without facing attacks of opportunity. The ability to push was incredibly powerful in our adventure, our fighter just kept pushing one foe off a bridge until he expired. Rogues are a bit more combat ready and have many push abilities, they can also dash in, attack, and dash out in the same round. Rangers lose the feeble forest magic and get better attacks and increased hit chance, their armor is now feeble and IMHO they require stealth and athletics to use the two-weapon form.

    Every character gets at-will powers you may use as often as you like, so we used them nearly every turn. About the only time we used a basic attack was for attacks of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity have been drastically reigned in. We fought a chainmaster who teleported through our lines to assault our back row, but he was feeble compared to the spiked chain wielders of edition 3.5.

    Our prebuilt adventure was supposed to be too tough and get us all killed in order to demonstrate how death works, but our tactically disinclined party managed to beat everything with only 1 PC knocked unconscious. Our GM had specific tactical instructions in the adventure which he followed to the letter, but the instructions made the monsters throw away their terrain advantages. We defeated a dangerous exploding skeleton by pushing it off a 30' cliff. I pushed a berserker off a narrow bridge into a fast moving river, keeping it out of combat for some time. All characters and monsters are tougher, so you'll get some time to play instead of getting killed in the surprise round.

    Halflings are slightly improved in that they can call for an attack against them to be rerolled. Dwarves too, they get to use a Healing Surge as a minor action, freeing up their standard action for better things. Eladrin ((tutu-wearing) grey elves) get to teleport 5 squares once per encounter sorry everyone but they are feeble. Once per combat Elves get to reroll a poor attack roll as a free action. Dragonborn get a breath weapon, but it is only as good as their Constitution- which they do not get bonuses to- and that tends to dictate their career path. Half-elves can take any 1st level at-will power from any other class and use it as an encounter power, but this isn't that powerful, they also give a bonus to Group Diplomacy, which the GM forbade us from doing, so they are feeble. In addition to the extra skill and feat of 3.5, Humans get an extra at-will power at 1st level, which can be nice if you can't decide which powers you want.

    The biggest change I saw was the u
  • by coren2000 ( 788204 ) on Friday June 06, 2008 @10:38PM (#23690403) Journal
    Thats what business is now... it used to be about making *THINGS* not *MONEY*

    Now our world is just about greed and new versions.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 07, 2008 @04:49AM (#23691965)
    Continuing from where I left off. I have now read most of the PHB and skimmed the DMG.

    Monks are gone. Rogues can use shuriken now but their weapons are further limited, e.g. they no longer get to use a rapier out of the box. Take 20 is gone.

    What I said about scrolls is not quite correct. All of the PC powers I saw are pre-combat, combat, post-combat, or cantrips. Other magical effects such as Brew Potion, Cure Disease, and Knock are now called Rituals. To master a Ritual you must create or obtain a ritual book with a ritual in it, study the ritual for 8 hours, and have the Ritual Caster feat. (Wizards and Clerics have this feat at 1st level, you must be Trained in Arcana or Religion skill to have this feat.) You can then use the ritual as much as you like. Rituals can be condensed into a one-use scroll which anyone can use. You cannot use a ritual scroll to create a ritual book, but you can use your ritual book to create several ritual scrolls. A blank ritual book can be bought or made for 50gp (which is cheap in this game, we earned 50gp in our first fight.) Rituals themselves have a component cost and a market price. A ritual scroll can be created for twice these costs. Each ritual relies on a key skill, and your skill roll often determines duration or power of the effect. You cannot Take 10 on skill checks of this sort.

    Each combat round you get a Standard action, a Move action, and a Minor action. You can use a Move or Minor in place of your Standard, and you can use a Minor in place of your Move. Most of your best stuff requires a Standard action, but there are some cool things you can do with a Minor action. Free actions are still around but sparse. There are now interrupts, abilities that you can automatically use in certain circumstances. You can still Ready an action for use in certain circumstances.

    As I said before, although your character begins with many Healing Surges (some classes get 10 + Con modifier), the use of them is limited. Once per encounter every character may use an ability called Second Wind that uses up a Healing Surge to regain 1/4 their hit points. Most of the healing abilities force the character being healed to use a healing surge. If you drink a healing potion you must spend a healing surge. Drinking a potion is now a minor action so it doesn't interfere with combat the way it used to.

    There are now three tiers of adventuring: the heroic tier L1-10, the paragon tier L11-20, and the epic tier L21-30. Generally, Paragon parties can take on adult dragons, Epic can take on ancient, and a good Heroic party could possibly beat a young lairless dragon.

    There are many new feats, "new" meaning that they weren't in the 3.5 PHB but were possibly in books I never bothered to buy. In the heroic tier many of the weapons combat feats remain, power attack has been nerfed. Spell feats have been reworked by damage type- instead of getting a bonus to alteration spells you now get a bonus to, say, acid attacks.

    Saving throws are different now. Gone are the days of using your best attack only to watch the GM roll dice behind his screen before triumphantly telling you the bad guy made his save again (just because he wants the fight to go on longer). Instead you have 4 defenses: AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. They all work like AC did according to how resistant you are to attacks that work against each kind. If you are using a magic effect against a foe you roll a hit roll using your Intelligence or Charisma or whatever against his Reflex or AC or whatever.

    There used to be dozens of skills. Now there are 17. Some skills like Bluff are largely unchanged, others like Thievery have absorbed several of the old skills. Skills are important for gaining some feats, using powers, using rituals, getting an Epic Destiny, and other stuff.

    Armor use is simply a matter of getting the armor use proficiency feats. There are 6 armor types now, in order of weakness: cloth, leather, hide, chain, scale, and plate. Fighters can't

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