Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany 625
D1gital_Prob3 tips news that Activision's recently-released shooter, Wolfenstein, is being recalled in Germany due to the appearance of swastikas in the game. Such symbols are banned in Germany, and the German version of the game went through heavy editing to remove them. Apparently, they missed some. Activision said, "Although it is not a conspicuous element in the normal game ... we have decided to take this game immediately from the German market." Reader eldavojohn points out a review that has screenshot comparisons between the two versions of the game.
Differences between versions (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]
Some of the changes I found a little fun too, like the hand [schnittberichte.com].
It's also interesting that the game is 18+ and germans are still not allowed to see any blood.
Here's the texture they apparently forgot to modify [schnittberichte.com].
Seeing how many changes to the game and to the textures they've had to do, I'm not that surprised something that small slipped in.
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Beyond the obvious problems with censorship in general, this kind of "censorship" where superficial elements are removed while keeping the overall spirit and subject matter of the game (come on, who wouldn't figure out looking at those obfuscated Nazi banners what the REAL symbol is supposed to mean) is abous as ridiculous as Japanese censorship laws, where you can make the most perverted porn than any other country in the world, but must superficially pixelate certain parts.
If you are not willing to forgo censorship alltogether, at least do it "right". What's done here detracts from immersion while serving absolutely no purpose towards whatever your censorship laws are trying to serve (unless their purpose is to ruin immersion, that is)
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I have to agree here. If a nazi-themed game runs afoul of German law, then simply don't sell the game there.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the anti-Nazi laws made sense in the first decade or two after the end of WWII, and maybe an argument can be made right through the Cold War, but come on. Is there anybody out there who seriously still has a Thatcheristic fear that they'll be burning the Reichstag again?
Yes, there are some neo-Brown Shirt skin heads out there, and all the anti-Nazi symbolism laws in Germany and Austria haven't seemed to put much of a dent in them. Short of shooting anyone who looks remotely like a Hitler lover, I think the time has come and gone when the laws could be justified.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble is, laws like this are incredibly difficult to get rid of. What politician wants to stand up and denounce such a law, at the risk of looking like a Nazi sympathiser?
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I mean unless you were a nazi why risk something that matters
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the issue is with where to draw the line. Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house, as that would be extremely intimidating to anyone living nearby who belongs to any of the groups Nazis don't like. By banning the swastika nearly outright, they avoid situations where someone could claim it was there for some artistic, ironic reason.
Actually, it wouldn't be intimidating. If you tried this (and it was legal), I can guarantee that the flag, the flagpole, the garden fence, your windows and many other things would be gone very soon.
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Why do you assume the neighbors would be intimidated instead of outraged? They should be allowed. That way the neighbors can remind them what happens to nazis in the end.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
That way the neighbors can remind them what happens to nazis in the end.
You mean by giving them a free trip to South America?
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Obviously, someone shouldn't be allowed to fly the flag of Nazi Germany outside their house
Why is this obvious? People fly the confederate flag all the time. Yeah, I'm sure it's offensive to many groups, but that's the problem with free speech, it's often offensive.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Displaying the confederate flag doesn't generally imply a threat of violence.
Maybe not to you...
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How does censoring hate speech stop hate? It hasn't done so in Austria and Germany. You don't extinguish evil ideas by banning them, you extinguish them with counter-argument and facts. Only a fool believes that censorship leads to freedom.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Interesting)
Immediately after the war, Germany was essentially under military occupation by the victorious powers. In effect, most of the normal liberties that the citizens could have hoped to enjoy (not that they actually had enjoyed said liberties since the Nazi rise to power) were suspended. The logic at the time was they did not want the provisional military government(s) undermined by an aggressive push by remnants of the Nazi party. It was the same justification used by the occupying military government in Japan to terminate all religious rituals and notions of divinity that the Emperor had enjoyed.
In short, for better or for worse (and I think history indicates that in both Germany and Japan, for the better), these were moves to disestablish the regimes in question, not only to remove them (or at least in the case of Japan to castrate) but to discredit them.
You won't find a bigger proponent of free speech than me, but if I was the military governor of, say, the British Sector in 1946, you're damned straight I wouldn't want any Nazis coming out of the woodwork to try to mount some sort of revolution. Six hard and bloody years had been spent toppling these bastards.
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The fact that a bolt of lightning hasn't come down from the heavens and fried guys like you where you sit is one of the top reasons I'm an atheist.
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version [schnittberichte.com]
Wow how did you ever find that link? Did you actually read the summary or something?
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
German law Strafgesetzbuch Section 86 [wikipedia.org]:
Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; [...] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. [...] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. [...] Section 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Â 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.
Note: I do not agree with the German governments staunch policy against symbols [bbc.co.uk] but they're free to govern as they see fit (pending the EU's approval). If they want to keep selling the game in Germany, they might want to uphold German laws. I don't know how many gamers are in Germany but they have a population of about 82 million and I think that it's a safe bet some "texture, remaster, repackage" can be afforded for that market.
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Um... weren't some of the in-game maps on Wolfenstein shaped like swastikas? Even if they removed the textures that had swastikas on them, wouldn't that still count?
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
Official notice. From this day forward, right angles are verboten. Enjoy your ellipses, damen und herren.
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You forgot to capitalize "Damen" and "Herren". Yeah I know I'm being nitpicky. ;-)
I find it interesting the EU States can ban images within a videogame, and the publisher MUST comply with that restriction. I wonder if the same could happen with a US State? Could California declare "no more swastikas" and force Activision to edit California editions of Wolfenstein, or would the U.S. overrule that decision? If yes, could the EU eventually overrule Germany's law?
Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Funny)
I think you mean that you're being a "Grammar [REDACTED IN GERMANY]"
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Hate crime laws are (at least supposed to) look at the intent of the speech rather than it's form (i.e. It's OK to put swastikas in your video game; it's not OK to spray paint one on your local synagogue).
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My argument is simpler:
If my neighbors' decision to join the Nazi Party, or smoke weed, or have sex with 20 men, does not physically harm me than I don't really care what they do. I think you're weird but if that's how you enjoy spending your life, then go to it. That's what liberty means.
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Re:Differences between versions (Score:5, Informative)
Umm, I live in Taiwan and I can let you know that they still use a reversed swastika. I see it on every Buddhist temple (which is quite a lot) and on some of the more traditional residences. It's only a religious symbol to them here, most people don't even know that the Nazi party used it.
Of course, these are the same people that think the word playboy means rabbit and have no idea of the brand's link to the porn industry. Gotta love Asian culture.
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Also, those of you who have character palettes on your computers, look up Unicode code points 534D and 5350. I wonder if those are blank on German computers.
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Gotta 3 /.
But, IMO, it's about time to start letting that censorship crap go. Really. Apparently, the game is perfectly legal and acceptable all around the world, except Germany. After 6 decades it's just time to move on. And, no, "moving on" doesn't mean forgetting the
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This censorship in germany of the swastika is beyond retarded.
Whether you're proud of the Nazi's or not, they happened and were the pride of germany for many many years and did a great deal more to advance this world then any other group in history.
I personally thank the nazi's for causing the world to change, and see no reason to try to rewrite history by denying the world from seeing the symbols of it.
Many people feel the nazi's were ignorant for killing that many people, but being ignorant enough to prom
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> Many people feel the nazi's were ignorant for killing that many people, but being ignorant enough to promote censorship is just as bad if not worse.
Have I understood you correctly: are you saying that banning the Swastika in German is the same as starting WW2 and creating the Holocaust ?
censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently this [schnittberichte.com] is the reason that it has to be pulled from the market. I don't know about you but I find the rationale for this type of censorship to be utterly absurd. So much for free speech.....
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
No kidding. Seems like Germans would have learned a thing or two about the negative aspects of authoritarianism. Censorship, even well intentioned, can easily turn into repression. Freedom of expression protects everyone.
Re:censorship (Score:5, Informative)
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It's meant to keep right-winged people from glorifying the Nazis.
By quashing political dissent, you are becoming like the Nazis. Let the right wingers openly glorify the nazis, so reasonable moderate people can see just how awful they are. Here in the states we let the KKK march freely, and usually the protests over the march are bigger than the klan march itself. If you do not trust your populace to make the right choice when fully informed, how can you even pretend to be democratic?
By singling out Nazis
Re:censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
You are incredibly naive! Not only was outlawing Naziism pretty much imposed on our government by your government and its allies, (so much for your "Freedom of Expression"), but you seem to think that putting some nice sounding principles into a constitution guarantees citizens rights. We have a saying in Germany: "Paper is patient." This means that you can write whatever you like down on paper but it doesn't necessarily mean anything! Communist East Germany had a beautiful constitution granting its citizens all kinds of rights which they didn't actually have in practice! Also it seems to me that what your constitution means changes with the composition of your Supreme Court judges. Furthermore it is extremely easy to ignore or misinterpret constitutions and countries ideals as witnessed by the many US citizens that firmly believe that the US started out and was intended to be a Christian state.
Re:censorship (Score:5, Interesting)
Freedom of Expression is guaranteed by the German Constitution. There are Nazi marches in Germany and the corresponding, much larger, counter-marches, just like those KKK marches in the state that you are referring to. Nobody suggested those were forbidden. The only "expression" that is expressively forbidden is denial of the Holocaust, and that law is simply a special, very strict case of legislation against libel.
The German Constitution does not ban National Socialism. It codifies human and civic rights, like those that you mention, and several others (most importantly, the right to dignity). You have clearly never read it, otherwise you wouldn't lecture about it like this.
German law strikes a different balance between Freedom of Expression and the Protection from Intimidation than the Anglo-American system, because of the country's history. Imagine living in what was arguably the world's most industrially advanced, culturally influential, progressive country. Then, one day, the houses of parliament are disbanded by armed paramilitaries. Your intellectual elite is driven into exile or killed. Almost all civic rights are abolished. About eight to ten Million Jews, politicial dissidents, Gays, Roma, mentally ill and others are killed. Finally, your country goes on to unleash the world's deadliest ever war, killing well above 30 Million people in the battlefields. I think you can be forgiven for outlawing the symbols of the movement that caused all this afterward.
Jeez, people, everytime anything related to this law comes up, everyone starts crying censorship. There is one small bloody set of symbols that's forbidden. One stupid verse of a song, and one stupid greeting. That's it! It's not like Germany had a censorship agency. In most of the United States, you can't even take a piss in public! How's that for freedom of expression?
Re:censorship (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't even go that far. Nazi symbols are only forbidden when they aren't shown in a historical context.
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>>>Seems like [the World] would have learned a thing or two about the negative aspects of authoritarianism...
Fixed. And yet still we have stupid laws being passed that restrict freedom of speech, not just in Germany, but also throughout the EU, the US, Australia, and other supposedly "liberal" countries.
Re:censorship (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, it's almost like Germany never ratified the United States Bill of Rights...
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Free Speech is an inalienable right, not something doled out to you by a friendly Governmental overlord. Nice try though.
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I'm sorry, but when the supreme law of the land is the GOVERNMENT and not PEOPLE (or gasp a "god") then the ULTIMATE authority that gives you that "Right" is the Government.
This is the problem with people who think that "society" has rights that can intrude on the rights of a mere citizen.
We are a people of laws, but the supreme law of the land is given to the states, or to the people, not to the FEDS. The US government is already totalitarian. We're just the frogs in the pot and haven't noticed the heat.
An
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May I ask what your religious belief is? If atheist, agnostic or similar, may I then ask where this right originates from and who determines the limits of that free speech?
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We want to keep right-winged people to from glorifying the Nazi time and we want to keep them from using their symbols, if possible.
In other words you want to restrict their freedom of political expression because you find their ideals abhorrent. You can justify it any way that you wish but it's still censorship. Personally I find the notion of censoring a Nazi to be as offensive as his political goals if not more so -- because we ought to know better.
Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trotskydoom (Score:5, Insightful)
Rush'n Attack!!! (Score:2)
You obviously never played Rush'n Attack comrade!
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Trotsky got big enough to be revered and loved (and immortalized as Snowball in Animal Farm), but never big enough to foul things up and be hated like Lenin. He even had the good sense to get assassinated while still popular and published.
What boggles me is that Mao isn't universally hated... Or why Lenin's body hasn't been vandalized...
I'm with you - If I make a video game, I'm shooting evil aliens. I think I'll call it District 9. ;-)
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Lenin actually wanted Trotsky to succeed him. It was Stalin that Lenin distrusted and wanted kept from the top spot, but after Lenin's stroke, Stalin was the one with the charisma and sheer will to rule who managed to get his hands on the Bolshevik machine. It helped that Stalin managed to get his hands on Lenin's will and make sure no one saw what Lenin really thought of him.
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Not true:
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I mean, come on, there isn't anywhere in the world the hammer and sickle are outlawed and the commies killed far more than the nazis did so it should be even more fun than Wolfenstein!
Except The Republic of Hungary, Latvia, and Lithuania [wikipedia.org]. Well, the exception is that it can be used for educational and artistic reasons, and I'm sure they can get away with it for artistic reasons in this case. :-)
so long ago (Score:5, Insightful)
It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead. Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now. It's time to give free speech a try.
Re:so long ago (Score:5, Informative)
Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now.
German denial of history has nothing on the Japanese. Bataan death march, what? Rape of Nanking, what? Death railway, what? Those weren't in my history books......
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It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead.
That's not quite true, though. Yes, most original Nazis are dead, but with their death also comes a greater tendency to forget the dangerous tendencies that got things started.
For example, the NPD [wikipedia.org] (National Democratic Party) has had representatives in the national government for years now (and it receives 5-10% of the vote in some regions). The
Fuck you! (Score:4, Insightful)
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They are definitely not denying the existence of history. When I was in Germany, everyone there was very aware of their history. I agree that suppression of symbols isn't helping, but they aren't doing it in an attempt to deny the Nazis existed.
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You go first. [wikipedia.org]
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... most of them are dead.
You've never been to Bavaria, have you?
I guess in Saxony they have bigger problems with those people.
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Bavaria was btw one of the least nazist lands probably. They are simply over-conservative so even smallest strain of nazism is going to remain there for quite some time. (Hint: nazism came to power and spread from poor German lands while Bavaria was (and is) one of the richest.)
Frankly the ban on svastika is absurd, considering that neo-nazis are pretty harmless bunch and it is anti-nazis whom I actually afraid of more.
In northern poor lands of Germany (where from browns have originated) though spiri
Geez (Score:2)
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Does it flip some sort of switch that makes them slobbering monsters?
This might explain my ex-girlfriend from Bavaria. She must have played a game of Wolfenstein right before we met. Damn you ID!
Socially progressive... (Score:2, Insightful)
Stuff like this is one reason out of many I'm very wary of social progressives. Germany is a socially progressive state, and I don't think it's at all a coincidence that such censorship exists. Of course the social progressives are going to come out of the woodwork to justify it by scaring people up about the possibility of Nazis arising again and so on and so forth, but I guess sacrificing freedom in order to protect it is just a necessity to them. Individual freedom is on the down-and-out world-wide in
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Regardless of whether the German government is left, right or liberal that law would still exist.
Re:Socially progressive... (Score:4, Insightful)
What the fuck are you talking about? Not allowing Swatiskas in birthplace of the Nazi regime is somehow part of a worldwide trend on reducing freedoms? I know shit about contemporary German culture, but I can imagine that the swatiska is a emotional lightning rod for people there. You know ... the regime was responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people. Sure, they aren't really dealing with it by hiding it, but that's their choice. This is a uniquely German issue, not some liberal plot to filter words or ideas.
Also, equating video games with suffering because it doesn't have blood or swatiskas in it is like saying some dude is suffering because his fajita wasn't served with sour cream. It's not suffering. It's whining.
Jesus ... I don't know who is a bigger ass ... you or the people who modded you insightful.
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You do realize that this was originally imposed upon Germany by the Allies at the end of World War II, right? It has since stuck even though the threat of a Nazi resurgence has now passed because it has become a part of the political status quo. It's not really specifically a left-wing thing.
...and no sane german politician is going to propose a bill to legalise the swastika, so this will remain law for quite some time.
Hey Germany (Score:3, Insightful)
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
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The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
Especially since it's a historically sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Mithraism. Actually, reading about the Swastika [wikipedia.org] here and how popular of a symbol it was before the rise and all of the Nazi Party, I'm shocked that you don't see it more often in Western nations.
Swastika (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, rationality is far too much to expect from a censorship board.
Re:Swastika (Score:4, Informative)
Well, ok.... (Score:5, Funny)
As long as the game doesn't include a map to Poland, we should be ok.
Oblig.. (Score:2)
I'd love to see the other German edits (Score:3, Funny)
Will they replace all the swastikas with walkie-talkie's? I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first. Did that get changed, too? And is the blood still green?
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I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first.
<tinfoil hat>Dude, Hitler's still alive. I thought everybody knew that? He's living a peaceful life as a painter somewhere in South America.</tinfoil hat>
If they not wearing symbols of the nazi's... (Score:2)
Germany needs to get over it already! (Score:3, Interesting)
It's freaking history. The U.S. didn't respond to the history of the civil war by banning any and all rebel markings. The symbols of Germany's history will always exist. Making it so that people don't see it as often changes nothing. But the existence of law that outlaws particular symbols or words are harmful. The next step is outlawing thoughts and feelings.
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Would you see the harm in outlawing the christian cross? How about the pentagram? How about the star of david? The moon and star? The hammer and sickle?
While we're at it, I don't see the harm in outlawing a lot of things. But then again, my views are going to be different from many others and that is the point. What is harmful is one body limiting the free expression and opinion of others, even [and especially] "unpopular thought."
I can still say "nigger" legally and I'm thankful for it. There are li
Don't mention the war ! (Score:5, Funny)
Basil Fawlty: Is something wrong ?
4th German: Will you please stop talking about the war ?
Basil Fawlty: Me ? You started it !
4th German: We did not start it.
Basil Fawlty: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.
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'Cause the Poles fought back?
Comparison Shots (Score:2)
A different perspective please. (Score:3, Informative)
Now having heard that social progressives are more into censorship .. than others etc..
I want to state some facts about germany and the background, and in the end my own opinion:
The swastika, also the posing in the public
doing the "Nazi salute", and public saying of "Heil Hitler" with a non-documentary or historic background are prohibitted.
If you do a historic documentation about the NAZIs the use of the Swastika is allowed.
But also building up organizitions and naming them
after their Nazi counterparts is prohibitted,
like
- "NSDAP" the Party also known as the "NAZI"-party
- "HJ" (Young Hitlericans(male))
- "BDM" (Young Hitlericans(female)
- "SS" (Sturm Staffel)
or stating that the holocaust never happend,
also known as "Holocaust Luege" - holocaust lie.
b.) Are there Nazis still in Germany active ?
Yes, they are. In Germany, we have two (bigger) extreme right wing parties:
- NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands) :: Republicans)
(nationaldemocratic party germany)
- REP (Republikaner
The NPD has some MPs in east german non-federal parliaments. Some days ago they also managed to reenter one of the parliaments in a row.
That's a premiere because anytime else they entered a parliament they were out on the next election. Mostly because their members had stolen
computers, office equipment and embezzled money for themselves(it was meant for covering expenses due to political work).
Funny isn't it, for a party which stands for law and order, more order than law I guess.
So these people mostly turn out to be total boneheads, the elitebrain leaders within those parties are few.
But they are connected and involved to non-offical/underground/forbidden organizations like the "Freie Kameradschaften"
sometimes those organizations gather weapons
and explosives, for terrorist acts.
The members of these "gangs" are often young and violent, they gather in flashmobs and have
hobbies like beating up foreigners, just for being foreign, sometimes they kill, or
hunt their prey in such a threatening way that the hunted people try to get into a safehouse by kicking in a glass window, accidently cutting themselves and bleeding to death.
If you have black, dark skin or look like a gipsy
you can end up as their prey, but sometimes because you look funny or do not speak german.
And if you are jewish they demolish your property or paint graffities like "SS" or "Jude verrecke"
(this means Jew die, in an extreme unpleasant way)
onto your property, synagogues and graveyards.
And all this, happens in germany still, mostly
in eastern germany - there are dangerous hotspots
where this happens, outside of these hotspots
it's mostly safe.
The prohibitions are instated to battle those
extreme right parties.
Please keep this in mind, when discussing
those NAZI-topics.
To get things into the right perspective, for germany those violent acts are _not_ common,
most foreign visitors describe germany as a
"clean and friendly country", and to be clear most of my fellow citizens are no NAZIs and won't do any harm.
But recent studies suggest 10 percent of the allowed voters can imagine themselves to vote
for extreme right parties.
So most of us try that those new Nazis will not ever rise up again, as it happend in '33.
My personal opinion about this topic is:
I think it's wrong that the holocaust-lie is prosecuted by law, because I want to know what
idiot I face from the beginning.
Perhaps after my lines below you can imagine why this is a very sensitive spot in our history even today.
Six Million people dead - selected to live or to die, after they left the train on the basis of their condition. Those who could do work, or were technically skilled were forced to work very low on food, with no medical support, so it was death by work. Those who were weak - children, elderly
My German video game experience (Score:3, Interesting)
Earlier this year while preparing for a move I put some old Lucas Arts games up for sale on eBay.
Day of the Tentacle, Sam and Max, Indiana Jones, etc...
Well the weird thing was how the Indiana Jones auctions took off and I started getting all these international bids on it. It complicated things for me since I wasn't familiar with international shipping but anyways, I checked and they were all German. HUH! Then I realized for the first time that Indiana Jones must be completely banned in Germany.
Of course with Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls it really IS for their best that it remain banned...
Re:Am I the Only One (Score:5, Insightful)
but the invisible-to-my-eye Swastikas are not?
Don't you know that human beings are so impressionable that all they need is to see a small swastika and they will instantly volunteer to help load the boxcars? Clearly we need a benevolent government to protect us from such evil.
Re:While it's really just a game.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Shame the anti-Nazi folk couldn't give you a break
I'm anti-Nazi. Everyone here is (hopefully) anti-Nazi. That doesn't mean we should censor their symbols out of existence or try to ignore history.
Re:While it's really just a game.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws. It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika. It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
You Mean Like When Those Xmas Creches Attack? (Score:2)
Symbols do empower. And the weak and narrow-minded get all threatened-like. Swastikas, Crosses, Pentagrams, Joker-Faces -- none have power inherently, except that which the Already Scared and Uncertain impart to them.
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Symbols do empower.
Rituals too.
The point is that banning a symbol doesn't change people. And symbol gets its meaning from people. It only suppresses expression of their true wishes. They'd find another symbol - and another scapegoat to blame for their problems - as soon as they would accumulate enough negative emotions.
What actually happened is that svastika's relation to Hitler and nazis was as good as perpetuated by the ban. IOW, you can't get over the problem by forcing yourself to stop thinking about. That simply d
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This has happened to pretty much every iteration of Wolfenstein *ever*. Almost every WWII game made has run afoul of various German laws in some form or another. Between their banhammer laws on anything remotely resembling Nazi iconography and the way they ratchet up the prohibition of pixelated violence every time they have an American-style school shooting, it's really a wonder that you can buy a single game over there that's any more graphic than cartoon bears throwing marshmallows at each other and then
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I see you are in favor of censorship. How un-American of you.
Re:The paradox is evident... (Score:5, Informative)
Being from Germany I can assure you that Nazi symbols are not banned from any history book or documentation or whatever. But presenting Nazi symbols in another context than education (or similar) is not allowed.
This ban helps keeping Nazis under control - you have a simple thing in your hands to kick their butts with this law and others. Additionally, regarding the well known history of Germany there is NO REASON to show, wear or use Nazi symbols other than for a) education (allowed) or b) propaganda for forces against the German democracy (disallowed).
Re:The paradox is evident... (Score:4, Insightful)
Additionally, regarding the well known history of Germany there is NO REASON to show, wear or use Nazi symbols other than for a) education (allowed) or b) propaganda for forces against the German democracy (disallowed).
So which is Wolfenstein?
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For example: the good Indiana Jones movies have a lot of Nazis and swastikas in them. Did they have to be editted for this ban?
If you intend that your movie makes money on the German market, you plan ahead: The mirror image of the swastika is allowed, and most Americans wouldn't notice the difference, so you can use it freely and generously.
Re:Reading some comments (Score:4, Insightful)
I would agree that some of the people posting not only have a mental age of about 13, but are likely chronologically 12-15 as well. That doesn't change the fact that the anti-nazi laws in Germany look pretty silly for those of us that don't actually live there. You shouldn't comment on other countries laws if you don't know them very well. Your interpretation (or at least your statement) of the libel, slander, and tort laws within the US makes for a nice sound bite, but it's not nearly that simple. Simply believing a statement to be true, or the proclamation of such isn't a valid defense. Just an FYI - the US libel laws are based on the original British defamatory laws, and are very similar at their core.
You should really brush up on your history a little bit, because the US was invaded. The white house burned down to the ground. We don't ban flags, symbols, or discussions about the subject. We don't ban the confederate flag, or other civil war era material. Vietnam wasn't a war, it was a police action -- big difference. Burying your head in the sand and pretending something didn't happen or doesn't exist doesn't make you better, it just raises a new generation of ignorant citizens.
Re:Reading some comments (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, I should have mentioned that I am of German descent. A large portion of my family still resides in Germany, and I have spent significant time there, starting from childhood, albeit I haven't been there in many years. Some of Germany's civil laws are pretty silly, or at least were. Being able to drink pretty much as soon as you can ask for it, but it's illegal to play pinball or video games in public at least until you turn 18. You can't have minors in movie theaters in the evening, even if accompanied by their parents, watching PG movies?
Odd, but I don't necessarily disagree, I also saw a large 4-5 story building with a mural of a naked/bare chested lady. Naked/bare chested women on public tv during the evening. I remember watching (sorry, my german is pretty poor, so my cousin was translating some), about some plot to make bras that secretly blow up like balloons. A rather silly plot line, but plenty of gratuitous nudity during prime time. Personally, I find that fine as well, but I find it odd that as open minded as that is, the great lengths the country has gone to hide it's own history.
Just some of the absurdities I encountered while there.
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Oohh! +5: LOLUSians!
You simply have no idea of the significance of Nazi symbols in Europe
I think it's you that must have no idea of the significance of Nazi symbols in the rest of the world. Irrespective of your personal beliefs, in the U.S. we hold freedom of speech to be our dearest liberty. That includes, no matter how distasteful you may find it to be, the right of others to say damn near anything they please. That's why, despite slavery being the United States' version of original sin, we allow nutjob