Microsoft Disconnects Modded Xbox Users 738
S-4'N3 writes "The BBC reports that Microsoft has disconnected approximately 600,000 Xbox users from Xbox Live because the devices they are using have been modified, either with software or with new chips, to play pirated games. 'Microsoft confirmed that it had banned a "small percentage" of the 20 million Xbox Live users worldwide.
Microsoft said that modifying an Xbox 360 console 'violates' the service's 'terms of use' and would result in a player being disconnected.'"
360 (Score:5, Interesting)
Apparently some people have gone as far as calling death threats [sankakucomplex.com] to a "Director of Policy and Enforcement for Xbox LIVE" and his wife (theres also irc logs where he came to say it on #360banned)
There has been modded xbox360 bans before too, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to people when they do get banned. And at least it keeps the cheaters off games.
No Cheating (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No Cheating (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Funny)
The great thing about online console play (the only thing, really, that it has over PCs) is their closed nature.
The correct anti-response would be: no it isn't.
It's much, much harder to cheat on a console than on a PC game.
The correct anti-response would be: no it isn't.
Don't get me wrong.
The correct anti-response would be: ...No I will?
I fully support their right to mod their own hardware.
The correct anti-response would be: ....No you don't?
But I don't want to play them online.
The correct anti-response would be: I do
Quit trolling. Pay attention...you can profit here (Score:5, Interesting)
Now what about if you aren't using LIVE? Nothing's going to stop you from running pirated games now, and it's probably going to be really cheap to get these "dead" consoles now. Life's good! If you buy a $50 or $100 used console and download a few games, you have already saved yourself the cost of a console. BAM!
There aren't that many good online LIVE games IMO, so it makes a lot of sense to have the cheap "dead" console to play the majority of the enjoyable ones. And if you really want to play LIVE, just mooch off your friend
Re:Quit trolling. Pay attention...you can profit h (Score:5, Informative)
Now what about if you aren't using LIVE? Nothing's going to stop you from running pirated games now, and it's probably going to be really cheap to get these "dead" consoles now. Life's good! If you buy a $50 or $100 used console and download a few games, you have already saved yourself the cost of a console. BAM!
Except that the last ban wave will cripple some offline features as well, such as HDD installs (a *big* loss since the DVD drive sounds like a jet engine when spinning), being able to move savegames to other consoles (no more playing you're savegames at a friends place), and I think even some of the media center functions. Also, you won't be getting any game patches anymore, which is also a major downside since so many console games are released full of bugs these days.
Re:Quit trolling. Pay attention...you can profit h (Score:4, Funny)
With the Ring of Death, destruction of game disks, overheating consoles and probably other results of the famous Microsoft quality, and now deliberate sabotage, I really don't thing it's a good idea to buy Xbox, period. Why do people keep on dealing with Microsoft at all, despite it leading to pain, trouble and financial loss every single time? I can only imagine the reason as some bizarre combination of stupidity and masochism.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
P.S.
When Dish Network mailed me a broken DTV box, and refused to accept a return, I purchased a second box from them (which worked), and claimed non-receipt..... thereby making myself whole on the money Dish stole from me n the first box.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No Cheating (Score:5, Funny)
come back to \ .
You have given yourself away, Microsoft Fanboi!
Re:No Cheating (Score:5, Funny)
If you read the thread I was asking what the "it" is and what it "doesn't do" so that I could communicate with him. He then told me I was an illiterate faggot so if I wanted to reply to his line of discourse I could either talk about my sexuality and relevant exploits or I could discuss why I couldn't understand what he wrote. Which would you have preferred? Well too bad, that was rhetorical!
If you have any idea exactly which point he was arguing with I'd be happy to have non grammatical-focused discourse on the subject
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Funny)
learn to read, faggot.
Looks like someone had their XBox360 disconnected from LIVE. /smirk
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
Did Microsoft really think this through? The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.
99.9% of them are people who want to play free games, or cheat on games. People who cheat on games ruin the experience for everybody else. Most modded Xboxes were modded by some guy at a games store, anyway, and that guy charged for it, it's not like these guys went through the effort of modding it themselves... they just paid some goon so they could steal games.
The remaining 0.1%, yes, actually just wants to write software for it. Slashdot pretends this group is the larger percentage, but Slashdot is wrong about a good many things.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
1. With XNA there is 0 argument for writing software for your 360. MS has given you all the tools to write/send software to the 360
2. If you have a modded box, MS really doesn't care, what they care about is if you play online and have potential advantages over other players
If you mod, just don't play it online - they can play offline and do whatever they want, just don't play on Live
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Informative)
The remaining 0.1%, yes, actually just wants to write software for it.
Actually, there's no reason to mod your xbox to write software for it.
There's a hobbyist dev kit! It's a free download, even. You can write code for the XBox on it for free, and some schools are doing this. Now, if you want to install that code onto your own XBox... you need to pay an annual membership fee for the service that lets you do this, and then you can load the code onto your own unmodded xbox, and you can connect to it with a debugger and stuff. No hacks or mods necessary (in fact they interfere).
(And that fee also covers what you need to submit the stuff you write to the process that lets other people download it, and lets you get paid for that. I have bought a game or two that were written this way. There's some innovative stuff in there.)
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:4, Insightful)
And that right there is why MS is evil.
You shouldn't have to pay them to put code on your own box.
Now, mind you, I *would* be ok with them only allowing signed games to get onto XBL. They could very easily do that without outright refusing to run the games at all though.
Unfortunately, telling a pirated game apart from a homebrew game is not easy, and it's clearly in in MS's business interest to treat them both the same.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think it's a big deal to have a separate, modded box for development. And after this development, modded Xbox 360s should become cheaper. This is about the Xbox 360, right? The headline says Xbox, but I know what's up :p You do not have to pay Microsoft to put the content on your own box, you have to mod it. How you accomplish that is up to you. What Microsoft (rightly) restricts you from doing with their online service afterwards is up to them. Now, if it interferes with any offline activity, that
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't HAVE TO PAY to put code on your own box. You just have to pay if you want that code to interact with Microsoft's servers.
If you don't want to play on XBox live you can do whatever the hell you want to your Xbox. Just don't try and connect to Microsoft's servers. It's very simple. It's not really nefarious.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:4, Insightful)
The worst part of this tho..
Games used to allow local lan play, most don't anymore... It basically killed the idea of a LAN party. You have to connect to live, just to play a game with someone sat next to you.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The following is hardly evidence, but merely an anecdote that may be typical of some Xbox users: I have an original xbox. I don't do much online play, but I do own a significant number of games (more than 10), and have played most of them through. After I noticed my Xbox starting to become irrelevant, I picked up a [le
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
People who cheat on games ruin the experience for everybody else.
There is currently one chip [mod-chip.com] out which allows you to rollback your xbox kernel to a vulnerable kernel (4532 or 4548), AFAIK xbox live will not play run on these kernels. If that is correct (and i have no reason to believe it's not) then none of these people were cheating. All the other chips are pirate only chips (go on CD-drive to allow pirated games but cannot modify disc images).
So this is to do with "99%" piracy "0%" cheating "1%" running linux,etc
Re: (Score:3)
I made up obviously fake percentages as a rhetorical advice. I hope you can use that on the 6th grade reading comprehension test you're trying to pass.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, it's a fucking typo and Slashdot has no Edit option. Of course it's supposed to be "device", congratulations, you win. My typo is no excuse for the morons on this board who have no reading comprehension skills, but feel compelled to "correct" me anyway.
So my measured and intelligence response to you is, "go fuck a goat." Thank you.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Oh look another typo! Crucify me now!!!
Typo (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:4, Insightful)
I have several friends with modded consoles and hand held systems. The only chatter they generally spread is encouragement to mod your own system so you too can download ripped games.
There was nothing "random" or "arbitrary" about banning a select group of members from online services due to the detection (in one fashion or another) of non-standard hardware.
The argument that it stifles innovation or profit is rather flat when taken at face value. For some systems it might make sense, but there are outlets already in place for people that want to develop for the XBox 360. There is a thriving independent developer community out there. Streaming media? There are plenty of ways to get that rolling as well, legitimately.
You just can't rip games is all.
Maybe I've just missed it. Can anyone point to a real life example of something worth modding your system for that doesn't involve torrented games, tv shows, music, movies, etc.
And before someone sidesteps the discussion, no, putting in a larger hard drive doesn't count in the context of this discussion.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
You really think so? The "backups" that most people use in their modded XBoxes are backups from some guy on a torrent site who himself probably only rented the game. How are these people their best customers? They probably play more games and have higher gamer scores, and might even pay for XBox Live Gold, but MS still isn't making as much from them as someone who buys only a few games a year.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, to be fair, if we can infer anything from the recent music studies, the same people that are hardcore enough to mod their xbox and steal some games are still buying other games. In music's case, it's been shown a few times those people downloading music frequently are still legally buying more music than the average consumer.
recent reference: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090828/0444096038.shtml [techdirt.com]
Having said that, we can't really know for sure right now since nobody has studied games specifically,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a bit different though. People went from downloading illegally to downloading legally because downloading is more convenient than going to the music store and buying a CD, then ripping it to your computer, and the legal download sites allow previews of the songs before you buy. I think modding hardware, downloading DVD ISOs, and then burning the DVDs is less convenient than buying the game, and in some cases, full games can just be downloaded on PSN or XBox Live these days.
There is also no way to ren
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:4, Insightful)
The only problem with this approach is that some (undoubtedly small) percentage of users who are in fact doing creative things by modding their xbox could also fall victim to being a false positive from whatever method Microsoft is using to identify the modders.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The only problem with this approach is that some (undoubtedly small) percentage of users who are in fact doing creative things by modding their xbox could also fall victim to being a false positive from whatever method Microsoft is using to identify the modders.
Many users seemed to get banned this time after they played their pirated copy of Modern Warfare 2 before it was released, so it shouldn't be a problem for those who aren't modding to play pirated copies. MS isn't of course disclosing their methods to identify modded consoles, but this seemed to happen to many.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Interesting)
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the XBOX 360 mod is basically flashing the DVD drive so that it can load games from backup DVD's.
The mod does not however remove the protection such an extent that homebrews can be loaded.
So, assuming this is still correct (haven't had a a 360 for over a year), what can you possibly do on a modded xbox 360 if you aren't copying games?
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Interesting)
This is still correct and the answer is there is nothing you can do with a modded xbox except play pirated games. End of story.
Some people are confusing the two because this wasn't the case with the original gen 1 xbox, others are confusing them because they don't know the full story and I guess a few are deliberately blurring the issue because they want to believe in the nobility of modding consoles or something. However MS make a pretty sophisticated (.NET based) dev kit available for free so you can write your own software, and will even help you sell them to a huge worldwide audience. You don't have hypervisor level access but then you don't need it to write your own software.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.
I really cannot see how they are Microsoft's best customers. How does it improve Microsoft's or game publishers revenue when exactly these people almost never buy games. Considering theres no homebrew scene in Xbox360, the sole reason people get their consoles modded is to play copies.
I doubt that this effort will even result in an increase in revenues that will be enough to pay for the enforcement. There must be better ways to improve profitability.
It is not only that for Microsoft. They also have to care for their game developers, who are obviously going to bitch if theres rampant piracy going on and MS isn't doing anything for it. When there's the constant fear that yo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And this information is based on what study? As we know, people who download music from torrents are actually buying more music than those who don't. Why should it be different with X-Box players?
The fact that modders can play some games for free, doesn't mean they pirate ALL the games they have. I'd speculate that people who tinker a lot with their X-Boxes are more likely to get an X-Box game as a present, for example, which generates revenue for Microsoft.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:4, Informative)
It doesn't count because there's absolutely no need to mod or hack your console to develop using the Microsoft tools.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah XNA is great for 360. But as it's directly supported by MS, people don't need to mod or hack their 360 to develop homebrew software for it. Which just strengths my point that only reason people mod their 360 is to play pirated copies.
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Insightful)
Did Microsoft really think this through? The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.
Got news for you. The console manufacturers- not just MS- are in this for the money, and enthusiasm for the console doesn't really do that. Matter of fact, they probably don't want people finding out too much about the console anyway, because that opens the way to homebrew and/or piracy, regardless of the intention of the original hackers. (Even if it wasn't used for piracy, MS and its gaming rivals would rather you could only use your console via their official channels, which likely make them more money).
Nothing new here; 25 to 30 years ago, Atari tried to suppress information about their VCS console and 400/800 computers to stop other people making their own games and reducing Atari's slice of the pie. (They did, however, and their efforts beat the heck out of Atari's third-rate offerings).
In short, MS et al don't care about enthusiasm. Their "best customers" are the ones who spend lots of money on games through official channels.
(BTW, though I disagreed with the above comment, I didn't consider it "flamebait".)
Re:Creative and engaged users, not cheaters (Score:5, Informative)
There's a large, officially supported homebrew scene on XBL. They even have a channel to publish your games and get paid for them. There's a lot of officially published info on the system, including getting into the graphics hardware and creating networked games. There's not a whole lot you can't do with their system other than not writing managed code (which may/may not be a big deal depending on what you're doing). I'd say the main intent here is to get rid of pirates.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Its not even cheaters since there's no modding titles - no one has cracked the signed code on the discs, so its purely to stop "backups". I'll give people the benefit of the doubt, and it would be slightly more convenient to not load the disc in the machine even when its already on the harddrive through the "load to disc" feature. But if anyone seriously thinks these folks aren't ripping games, you gotta be kidding yourself.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
All of that is useless because you agreed to their terms of service when signing up for Live, which also contain terms about just exactly this. You wouldn't get far in court.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's clear this guy isn't interested in going to court, if he's admitting that his recourse would be to commit fraud against a retailer who sells MS products just to get back at MS.
I don't know why he thinks cheating a dealer out of $X of retail product is going to hurt MS in any way at all ... either the dealer is going to eat the loss or his insurance will cover it and his rates will go up. Or maybe he thinks the dealer he buys stuff from is responsible for MS Live's decis
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
All of that is useless because you agreed to their terms of service when signing up for Live, which also contain terms about just exactly this. You might get far in court.
While a TOS is more valid than an EULA he may be able to win in court depending on the circumstances.
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Informative)
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Insightful)
So now you expect MS to identify and categorize any mod you might happen to have made, to tell whether you specifically are cheating?
OTOH, MS is defining the boundaries of a service they're providing; so even if cheating could never be an issue and their only purpose were to not extend the service to people who circumvent their DRM, I'd still figure them to be within their rights.
Re:No Cheating (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that is by FAR the biggest reason they are. You really think otherwise? Homebrew software, emulation, media center... that stuff is being done, but software piracy is the main use.
Don't get me wrong; I think it should be completely legal to modify your hardware.
Re:No Cheating (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:360 (Score:5, Funny)
does this make it an "Ex-Box"?
thank you thank you... i'm here all week.
Re:360 (Score:4, Funny)
"bereft of connectivity he plays alone, if he hadnt been nailed to the couch hed be playing outside with his friends! this Xbox has ceased to be! its gone offline to join the choir invisible! this is an ex-box!"
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
From that same thread, the director dude out there is quoted there as saying it's no problem to move your hard drive to an unbanned 360 box. It would appear this is a ploy by Microsoft to sell more 360's.
[00:54] HDD from banned to unbanned is ok, but you might have to reformat to get full access to licenses
[00:54] etc
Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
Small price to pay for MS to get a user back on an unmodded 360 that won't be able to play torrented games, resulting in more game sales, plus more recurring Live credit purchases.
Look people, it's not that tough - if you're going to mod your box, then don't put it online where anybody that wants to can inspect it. You can't have it both ways.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The HD is not banned as it's not modified. The mods to system are. Of course you can buy an unmodded system and play. They aren't banning "you" they're banning your modded system.
MS is basically saying that if you want to mod your system then go ahead. But if you want to play on LIVE then you need an unmodded system to do it with. If you want to save some money you can transfer your HD to the unmodded system when you want to play with the rest of the world. With the price of the XBox dropping it is le
Re:360 (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is why so many now mod the controller not the console. It has become very popular to mod the controllers for turbo fire and the like. The reason this sort of thing works is because of the brain dead console development expectations, say it with me "trusting the client is never right".
More games need to enforce maximum rates of fire and the like.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And at least it keeps the cheaters off games.
Not really. All it does is keep the bad cheaters off the games. The good cheaters don't get caught by these sweeps.
And that's just what xbox live needs, darwinism at work refining a better crowd of cheaters.
The checks done by live are less sophisticated than say, punkbuster on the PCs. And all that accomplished was to raise the stakes and make the cheaters go into business selling the "undetectable" cheats and taunting those like Activision.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Your logic is...staggering. Apparently so as to avoid breeding a "better crowd of cheaters" MS should just lower the bar to such a low level that any old suck can cheat, thereby preventing people from getting really good at it.
I think you should suggest this giant leap of understanding on behalf of mankind to prison administrators. If they keep making it harder and harder to escape from prison, it'll only breed, by "darwinism", a better grade of prison escapees.
Kudos, sir. Kudos.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
well that's one way of twisting the issue around, kudos to you too!
Microsoft should ban cheaters, not people with modified clients. Banning modified clients will cause BOTH cheaters and people who do not even want to cheat to defeat the new measures against them. But you're conveniently forgetting about the second group.
Wait, does that mean you're OK with non-cheaters becoming better modders ? My mind boggles...
Re:360 (Score:4, Insightful)
You really think this kind of thing has an impact towards cheating? I suspect it has a bigger impact on MS's bottom line, as these are people who are paying a monthly fee to play online. Way to go MS, demonstrating part of the RIAA strategy: let's prevent our customers from being able to spend money on us! Way to go!
What this probably kicked off was people who had modchips to play overseas games, and absolutely 0 of the "cheaters".
Oh, and welcome to console DRM at it's finest. You bought into it, now when they kick you out you're pissed that everything they sold you was on a "license" basis and you technically own 0 of it. enjoy!
And of course... (Score:4, Informative)
By "disconnecting" it means banning from playing in the "live" online network (which you must pay to play anyway).
It is still possible to play offline games with banned xboxs
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Very carefully, though, they still keep your xbox live account active and charge you the subscription fee.
For those who want to cancel, check out http://www.xbox.com/accounts [xbox.com], change your subscription by clicking the link after subscription renewal (the link says "ON"). Then continue to click through the 5 or 6 pages detailing all the reasons you should stay. Click "Next" through all of that, and you're set.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I routinely use my live account on 2 different consoles. They can't just cancel an account because it was used on a modded system. If I went to my friends house and logged onto his 360, and then they cancelled my account because he modded his system without me knowing, I'd be pissed.
Re:And of course... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, but with this recent ban wave, Microsoft crippled some non-XBL capabilities. For example, you can't install games to your local hard drive anymore
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Now if you mean modding it so you can load to and play from the HD.. well, that's what they're out to stop...
I can't believe I'm saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen, I hate Microsoft. I think the people who run Microsoft are criminals. I cannot for the life of me believe I'm about to say this:
You buy an XBox 360, you can do whatever you want with it. Mod it to your heart's content.
But the Live network belongs to Microsoft. They have a right to disconnect you if they want.
Now excuse me while I find someone to fulfill my user name.
Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (Score:4, Informative)
I don't believe most of the modding community is bothered by the ban from XBL. But this recent ban wave also cripples some offline capabilities as well. For example, if you've been banned you can't install games to your local hard drive anymore.
And how likely is that, exactly? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wouldn't "Dude! this Xbox has a mod-chip so you can play copied games!" be the main selling point of such a console?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When just, so be it. What happens when it is unjust? Is it still simply their right?
Yeup, it is! And if they get out of hand with it, they're idiots.
They do not have a monopoly in this space, and aren't likely to soon, so market forces can work here. Their stance on this stuff makes some people chose PS3, or makes some people who'd otherwise enthusiastically get an XB360 remain content with the lesser processing power on a Wii or PS2, or makes some people stick to PC gaming instead of console gaming. And this is all fine. Microsoft gets to experiment to find the right balance point, an
Re:I can't believe I'm saying this (Score:4, Insightful)
Congratulations, you just compared two completely divisions of Microsoft. Also, this is nowhere near the first console ban Microsoft has done (they did a good job hitting the users right after the first DVD drive mods came out) and hardly any false positives if any have come up. Being a closed system (unlike PCs) they can tell when something is different about the hardware.
Good (Score:5, Funny)
"a small percentage" (Score:5, Informative)
600,000 of 20,000,000
there are some who would call this "three percent"
Re:"a small percentage" (Score:4, Informative)
3% is a pretty small percentage.
Funny First Hand Account (Score:5, Interesting)
I took it into a shop [the Xbox], there was a guy back there and I asked him and he did it for me [chipped it]. He charged £75 to get it chipped but at the end of the day I said to myself I'll pay £75 to get it chipped, after two games I've paid the money back.
I've probably saved about £600 and I've copied roughly 30 or 40 games. A lot of them I've downloaded or I've taken off friends that have downloaded themselves.
So at what point do you put two and two together and realize that getting kicked off playing online is not such a bad thing if you've saved £600? Is there really any wonder why XBox Live wants to deny you service? How exactly do you maintain outrage at being banned?
His sob story was going pretty good until he got up to those last paragraphs of admission and even saying he'd never do it again (implying he is wrong).
Re:Funny First Hand Account (Score:5, Insightful)
That entire first-hand-account is ... annoying.
I was pulling my hair out thinking, 'No, why me?'
That's a question easily answered.
It's like telling someone their dog's just died.
He likes his xbox too much.
I still think they should lower the prices. There are 16-year-old kids out there, they don't earn money so they go screaming to their parents saying, 'Can you buy me this game?'
Their parents should say "No. You buy it yourself. Go earn some money." And why should they lower the prices if people are buying them as it is? I guess normal supply-and-demand isn't good enough for people that don't want to pay for their entertainment. It should be cheaper for the sake of being cheaper...
Fair enough, one game once in a while but the amount of games coming out, good games, everyone wants to play them all.
I would love to have a 100 acre ranch near where I work, too. Unfortunately, they're too expensive.
My favorite quote.
I play with my mates all the time. It's just a good laugh, we all sit there chatting, playing games. Now I don't know what to do.
How about sit there and chat with your mates? Or is playing video games the only thing you and your mates know how to do, and you can't actually have fun without it. *sigh*
Re:Child labor laws (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know how it is where you are living, but a 16 yr old American has quite a few legal employment options.
Re:Child labor laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm with you, but the Slashdot zeitgeist is usually "piracy is a-ok!" The justifications vary from the mainstream, I rarely see Slashdotters use the "I couldn't afford it" excuse, they usually use the more philosophical "information wants to be free/it's useless to even try to restrict it" excuse instead.
In addition, whenever a company tries to defeat pirates in some way, there's always the smug, "those clueless newbs will never stop us!" bullcrap, even though that misses the entire point of copy protection
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I see a lot of people complaining about DRM and draconian copyright enforcement, which I sympathize with. But it's pretty rare that you'll see someone out-and-out defending piracy here.
Unless it's, you know, cool pirates. Yarr.
Or I dunno, maybe my filter is turned up too high. Maybe I'm just too high. Whatevs.
Re:Funny First Hand Account (Score:5, Insightful)
Hum. Out of curiosity, does the slashdot crowd think copying 30-40 games and "saving £600" is good? Wouldn't that actually be considered ... basically stealing? Maybe he couldn't afford £600 of games. I don't feel sorry for him. Not being able to afford something/something being too expensive doesn't mean you should get it illegally (and it's ok, as long as you couldn't afford it).
I don't think it is good. I think it is terrible. It is exactly people like him who are the ones which are giving the corporations the impression that such things are the norm and therefore they feel they need to do something to stop it.
People like that piss me off because it makes my complaints (non-interoperable hardware, laws damaging freedom/privacy, few legal digital options) seem less valid because there always seems to be 'that guy' standing next to you making faces and fart noises while you attempt to engage in rationale discourse.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If he couldn't afford to buy them in the first place, that means he wouldn't have bought them in the first place, which means the game company is not out of any money, because the guy couldn't afford to buy the game in the first place. Seems pretty simple to me?
Re:Funny First Hand Account (Score:5, Insightful)
I've long argued, especially when it comes to games and entertainment related media, there's absolutely NO justification in copyright infringement EVER
When you start dealing with works that are over 100 years old (which we will soon) my outrage scale falls off VERY quickly.
Re:Funny First Hand Account (Score:4, Insightful)
They may not have lost something, but he still isn't entitled to obtain the works of other's for free just because he wants it.
Exactly.
An artist puts on an exhibit and charges an entrance fee (so he can buy food/housing and then create new art). If I sneak in, the artist hasn't lost anything, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to see it for free just because I want it.
A movie theater plays some new movie. They're going to play it whether I sneak in the back door or not; unless the theater is full, they're not losing money since I only take up one seat. But that doesn't mean I'm entitled to see it for free just because I want it.
(And so on and so forth, as applied to DVDs and streaming video, games and other software, music, pirated satellite/cable tv, hacked cable modems, etc.)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll bet money he plays just a few games. Now do your math. It's close to a wash at 75 pounds.
Except that 75 Pounds didnt go towards legally purchasign a game. It went to the person who mod'ed the X-Box. So it's not a wash for MS.
Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (Score:4, Insightful)
what you are saying was that he didn't pay enough?
"enough" is not determined by the buyer. You don't go into a store and argue with the cashier - at least not in most western economies - that the price is too much. You either buy it or you don't.
If Microsoft decides their price is too high and people actually can't afford it and that's why their sales are going down, maybe they'll lower the prices. As it is, people can afford it, Microsoft is making money, and there is little incentive for game publishers to lower their prices.
It's like asking an IT guy to lower his price because, while I and many others can afford his service, I think it's too expensive. You know how you solve that one? You don't hire him to do the work in the first place. I guess with entertainment it's different... because we are entitled to cheap entertainment - "cheap" being defined not by what we can afford or supply/demand but by what we feel like paying - at the expense of these evil corporations...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You don't go into a store and argue with the cashier - at least not in most western economies - that the price is too much. You either buy it or you don't.
I do it all the time. I just don't expect to leave with it unless the cashier and I agree on the price and I pay it.
Re:Another loser from the entitlement generation (Score:5, Informative)
Mmm, how was it he didn't pay?
You mean other than the part where he says he didn't buy the games and just copied them because he felt he was owed them?
guess he paid for the Xbox, he paid money to the guy for 'chipping' his box, and he paid for the Xbox-live service.. what you are saying was that he didn't pay enough?
If one wants to play a game, one has to buy it. If one can not afford to pay for the game doesn't mean you are allowed to copy it. One is not entitled to the work of another for free just because someone wants it.
Hilarious posts from those affected (Score:4, Interesting)
Hitler is going to be pissed (Score:5, Funny)
Hitler is going to be pissed!
PISSED! [youtube.com]
So they kicked off all the pirates now? (Score:3, Funny)
This three percent is one helluava mighty pirating engine ain't it? According to Microsoft, it's this three percent that's been the cause of the falling profits all this time. Now that they have been eliminated from being able to purchase stuff from Live... er.... I mean, uh.... now that they've been ejected.... No....
Can we just jump to the "Profit" step now, quick-like?
With every loss there is opportunity... (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all let me say that the market for used xbox consoles just got extremely dangerous!
Microsoft needs to set up a system where you can check the status of an xbox console remotely so people can still sell consoles with confidence... 600K Xboxes are about to go up on ebay for a deal that is just too good to pass up.
Secondly if you assume that you do not mind playing games offline that you have pirated, you can still beat the system. Is that not what this is all about?
Step 1: Buy an xbox that has been live banned for very cheap off ebay. It has already been modded, so you dont have to pay for that.
Step 2: Download 50-60 dollar games for free and play them to your hearts content, offline.
After a few games you have already made your money back from the initial purchase of the console.
What if you want to play on xbox live? You have a live console that you do not hack and just enjoy online games there.
You still have to buy games that you want to play online, but there are a lot fewer online games that are worth playing than there are short and sweet single player games that you can just download for free.
Re:With every loss there is opportunity... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would microsoft want to assist people selling/buying used consoles???
They'd prefer people bought new ones, obviously.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
With all the money these guys have saved on pirated games, they can just go out and buy a new Xbox.
In the TOS? It's in the freakin quick-start guide! (Score:3, Interesting)
There are three reasons to mod your Xbox:
1. Turn it into a cheap PC
2. Play homebrew software (basically #1)
3. Steal games.
All of these rely on the same method: replace or disable protections on the OS or base firmware. It's in the quick start guide(the thing that tells you what is and isn't included) that if you mod your xbox, you will not be able to play Live! and may not be able to play the games you own.
So why the hell is anyone surprised about the ban?
And why the hell is anyone even angry about the ban? They expected it!
Start a New Business Whiners (Score:3, Interesting)
And, as usual, collateral damage. (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it no surprise that among those 600,000 users banned (nearly 4% of their users!) that there was some collateral damage?
One user, who reported having spent over $5200 on the xbox and XBLA, wrote to Consumerist that Microsoft banned his fiancé's unmodded console, and then treated them like criminals when they tried to get Microsoft to fix the problem:
http://consumerist.com/5402056/xbox-gamer-says-he-was-banned-online-for-no-reason [consumerist.com]
Linked from there is a story from another user whose xbox suffered a fan-induced RROD. Not wanting to wait nearly a Month for Microsoft to fix it, he took it to the shop to have the fan replaced, apparently tripping some sort of modification flag. Microsoft's response to him? Literally (and I quote) "But this is what you get for tampering the console." (sic).
What a disaster.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, you use the Xbox Live service at Microsoft's invitation, on the terms of a seperate contract you establish with them when you pay the subscription (the Xbox Live terms of service). It has nothing to do with the contract of sale of the console itself. If they wanted to, they could have a term banning you from going on Live if the console's horizontal instead of vertical. It's a breach of that contract, so they're entitled to follow through on the penalty outlined in that contract, provided there is
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That would be a terrific way to punish console modders - force output to 350x240.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe I don't understand the nature nor purpose of these mods, but isn't what you do on your hardware your own business if you are not stealing from Microsoft?
Actually, Microsoft is saying pretty much that. However, if you do mod your hardware, you cannot play on Microsoft's server. You can still use your Xbox in offline mode. It is your XBox. However, you cannot get onto Microsoft's servers, of which you do not own nor have an inherent right to. Basically, if you want to mod your own XBox as well as play online, you had better buy two systems, and only mod one.