Blizzard Adds Timestamps To WoW Armory 318
Kharny writes "In a move that could cause serious privacy problems for players of World of Warcraft, Blizzard has added timestamps and an RSS feed to the game's online armory site. This new feature will mean that anyone can follow 'real-time' developments in a World of Warcraft character, which display the exact time and date, so that others can see that person's playing habits. Many players have already complained about the fact that there is no opt-out setting, and this opens very big possibilities for online stalking."
Already possible (Score:5, Informative)
This just makes it a little bit easier. One could easily write a LUA script that /who's the player in-game between some intervals and save the info. Or the more geeky ones could write a program that uses WoW's protocol and logins to do the same (and relogins if disconnected).
So it's not like it wouldn't already be possible to gather those playing habits.
Re:Already possible (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is, making some things easier make things more probable and skews "cost - benefit" comparisons towards actually doing the thing. The example you use would require a WoW account and would be limited to a few people tops. The new changes can easily allow monitoring of tens of thousands of accounts from a single ip, with a few lines of Perl.
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Re:Already possible (Score:4, Funny)
Oh I don't know. Coordinating all of those grass skirts and getting the roast pig out in time can be a challenge. Plus, there's the whole fire-stick thing...
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So it's not like it wouldn't already be possible to gather those playing habits.
Yeah, but you leave a strange stalker trace if you're doing that. Why would you be /who'ing someone 48 times per day at 30 min intervals, for several days? If it goes to court, log files could help the victim.
Visiting that armory page a couple times per day for a few days seems like completely normal behaviour. This is dangerous not because it encourages stalking - but because if there is a stalker incident, it doesn't provide any markers to indicate abnormal behaviour. Plus, it's convenient, and available
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One could easily write a LUA script that /who's the player in-game between some intervals and save the info.
You need to have an account and be logged on to the same server as the person whose habits you are tracking, big difference.
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This just makes it a little bit easier. One could easily write a LUA script that /who's the player in-game between some intervals and save the info. Or the more geeky ones could write a program that uses WoW's protocol and logins to do the same (and relogins if disconnected).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the user you're stalking ignore/ban you, and stop you from /who-ing them?
Re:Already possible (Score:4, Informative)
Are you sure that WoW EULA does not have some conditions that prohibit scripting?
It might prohibit cyber-stalking, and repeated status requests on a player might be considered as such, but the reason why the OP mentioned Lua is because WoW supports Lua as a user scripting language to make interface addons. (And except for bug exploits, by definition anything done with the Lua API can't be a ban-worthy offence)
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You were supposed to be at nana's funeral (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You were supposed to be at nana's funeral (Score:5, Funny)
What did Nana drop?
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Re:You were supposed to be at nana's funeral (Score:5, Funny)
"One Lady Owner, 30k on clock, used for shopping once a week."
+ 300% carrying capacity
Use: +100% speed increase until it breaks down at the end of the road
- 100% Chance to score with Nelfs, Humans, and Draenei. Gnomes and Dwarves take what they can get.
I Blame the Twitter Mentality (Score:5, Interesting)
Just glancing at this cursorily (it's slashdot, after all...), this seems like a WoW character's twitter feed. Blizzard prolly thought that was a cool feature: I mean, who doesn't want to communicate their every activity throughout the day in real time to a thousand of their closest friends, and via a website to a billion more complete strangers? Blizzard has watched a generation replace their privacy with "oooh, shiny" and figures they are just giving customers what they want.
Congrats to Blizzard. Shame on the rest of us.
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So I say shame on Blizzard for putting all of us into Web 2.0, willingly or unwillingly.
Disclaimer: My WoW account has been rarely used for the last year or so. But you don't have to take my word for it, you can see for yourself now!
There is no privacy in WOW (Score:5, Informative)
Improve school results (Score:2)
For anyone under 16-18, this would be GOOD.
Ok, the kids will hate Blizzard for it... but it might actually decrease the amount of time spent online, and improve school results.
Working people or anyone who keeps work and gaming separated need not fear. Your boss doesn't know your WoW character, does he?
However, it is surprising that a company would try to motivate players to play less...
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oops (Score:2)
(Actually, thinking a little more about this, maybe I ought to pay more attention to my online privacy. The terrorists have won, I'm posting this as anon.)
Hey, fractoid, you dropped your name in the midst of your AC post and we know who you are. :) Best to decide "to AC or not to AC" before you start composing.
Cyber Stalking - Really an issue? (Score:4, Insightful)
Situation: I am being "cyber-stalked".
Solution: Log off WOW.
Solution 2 (If you really need your MMORPG fix): Switch to a different character.
Why would a person knowing where you are in a fictional landscape ever be a problem anyway? Surely there's some kind of ignore button in WOW (correct me if I'm wrong, I only played the free trial before getting bored), so even if they knew where you were, they could... what?
Re:Cyber Stalking - Really an issue? (Score:4, Funny)
they could... what?
Ground you for playing past your bedtime.
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Or fire you for playing on work machines on work time. Or use it in the divorce suit because you're neglecting your kids. The possibilities are endless: I wouldn't consider all of them improper, but it does create some risks.
Re:Cyber Stalking - Really an issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
then... err. do your job? care for your kids?
Re:Cyber Stalking - Really an issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who has seen a number of nasty divorces go down, let me explain something to you:
Has 1 drink with dinner => massive alcoholic in divorce speak
Spanked a child for running into the street => beats the children
Hugs a child => probably molesting the children
Has had lunch with co-worker of the opposite sex => has had a torrid affair
Has had lunch with co-worker of the same sex => almost certainly having a homosexual affair
So...
Spent 3 hours over a weekend late at night raiding => neglects children, wasn't ever there for us, probably having an affair with someone online
I agree, people probably shouldn't be playing or logging in from work unless their workplace allows it during breaks, but the point is that anyone who has an agenda and an axe to grind and would use this tool to support it will certainly also be more than happy to spin things in the worst possible way. Divorce lawyers are fucking NASTY creatures, and people going through a hostile divorce can be psychotic.
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Best guildname on Bladefist: "WTF MOM IM RAIDING"
Re:checking WoW logs is easier than (Score:5, Funny)
10 min after her bedtime, she is sleeping, every night. She is 20 month old.
You should have trained her to farm you gold by now.
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Something tells me Blizzard's target audience isn't girls eagerly awaiting their second birthday...
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Really, let's face it, most people who have a problem with this are people who play when they should be working or at school or something and are concerned their employer/parent will now be able to see this and hold it up as evidence against them in disciplinary action.
As you say, there's really little value there for a stalker. A stalker is more likely to be watching your house with binoculars to see when you leave the house and what you do at what times, rather than giving a shit about what time you got t
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most people who have a problem with this are people who play when they should be working or at school or something and are concerned their employer/parent will now be able to see this and hold it up as evidence against them in disciplinary action.
Maybe, but that's really the same argument as we see for wiretaps or unwarranted searches or cameras up the wazoo - "You only have something to lose if you're doing something illegal." As has been said before around here, decreased privacy hurts everyone, not just those doing things they shouldn't. Just because so-called stalkers won't find anything doesn't mean they should be able to look.
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Solution: Don't go outside.
Solution 2: Kill yourself.
Do you see the flaw in your reasoning? These people have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and you should not place the blame for stalking on the victims.
Blizzard needs to do more work on privacy (Score:3, Interesting)
One of the major problems is that you can be harassed by people full time because of the friends list. The issue is that you cannot block people from putting you on that list or hiding from them by using the /ignore feature. While I understand that "loot ninjas" want to hide they can't on the server from their name being trashed.
Throw in that paid names changes don't remove you from friends list and it just gets more of a pain to hide from in game bullies. I fully expect blizzard one day to really screw
It seems (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Most people play waaay more WoW than they admit
2) There's a lot of botting going on
There, you're shocked now. aren't you! Hello?
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Many of the bots are not simple. They are quite sophisticated, and allow not just harvesting, but questing, rep grinding etc.
There are "one click" profiles for ten or more levels at a time. Set it and go.
Auction house bots manipulate the economy. Price fixing at it's worst.
honor/mark farming, even arena point farming. Hell, there were instance profiles for solo'ing lower level instances, and follow profiles designed to let one person run a five-man instance with a couple bots backing him/her up.
Not that
Re:It seems (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to bot three toons at once. A couple made it to 80, and a dozen or so to 60. Mmoglider getting shut down is why I quit the game.
Good riddance.
Re:It seems (Score:5, Funny)
You "quit the game" that your bots were playing for you?
Re:It seems (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone please mod the above AC up for me.
How can you quit a game you weren't playing to begin with. And I'm sorry but Bot players are the lowest life forms in the game. It's cheating and they need to get over themselves if they think it's anything but that.
Re:It seems (Score:5, Funny)
How can you quit a game you weren't playing to begin with.
The funniest part is that they quit the game because they were going to be forced to actually play it themselves. :)
"What, PLAY the game? Fuck that shit, I'm out!"
Clearly, they should be playing progress quest [progressquest.com]. :)
Re:It seems (Score:4, Insightful)
We're trying to play a fantasy game here, not Robot Battle. [robotbattle.com]
Re:It seems (Score:4, Insightful)
They may both be run by code instead of players, but the intentions for both are extremely different. Over-simplifying it to your level is either done out of an effort to justify the use of something selfish and unwanted by the community at large (and not allowed) or just plain stupidity.
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PvP bots (Score:2, Insightful)
The only really annoying ones are badly designed battleground bots who just run around randomly, dragging down the whole groups' performance. It's a pity that they're so easy to make. Maybe Cataclysm's rated battleground will fix that.
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Oh they ruin the game. As mentioned in sister posts, there are more than just "harvester" bots. They are a lot more sophisticated than you think.
I just started playing WoW again after an 8 month break and I was dismayed at the number of bots in the new "random" dungeon feature. They're sneaky... they'll buff you appropriately, and if you whisper it, the bot will even respond. Then it will follow you through the instance doing the minimum possible. It becomes immediately apparently if you have a good damage
It seems like you have been living 2 lives (Score:3, Funny)
Boss: so mr anderson, it seems like you have been livig 2 lives. 1 as the sick employe that stayed at home, and the 2nd as barabas the gnome slayer...
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Re:It seems like you have been living 2 lives (Score:5, Insightful)
Then here's a message for management: Sick leave. What's common in US companies nowadays is "leave" or "paid time off", or whatever. It is used for both vacation and sick time, and in the US there's a whole lot less than a European would expect.
What it means is that every day you spend home sick is a day you don't spend up at the cabin in summer, or downhill skiing in the winter, or pitching in on a school project for your child, or whatever you might want to do when you're away from work and well.
If I'm hurting the company by coming in sick, then don't make me give up vacation time to help the company. Make provisions for me to get paid by doing what's best for the company.
Re:It seems like you have been living 2 lives (Score:4, Informative)
This system baffles me every time it is mentioned though.
I work in a school in the Netherlands, I get 40 days off this year, I brought over 8 free days from 2009 that I didn't use, so that's 48 days for this year.
When I get sick, I stay at home, this isn't deducted from my free days.
When I am on vacation for 3 weeks and I am sick for 2 weeks, I only lose 1 week of free time, since being sick doesn't cost free days.
I have an absurd amount of free days though, the norm in the Netherlands for companies is about 25 days per year if I'm not mistaken.
I really feel sorry for you guys, having so little vacation/free days. Wish you had more.
Stalking a WoW player? (Score:5, Funny)
I do believe that stalking a home-bound loser would make the stalker collapse into an infinitely dense (and sad) singularity of loserdom.
Re:Stalking a WoW player? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Stalking a WoW player? (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand that that's the popular perception of WoW players... but you do realize it's about as accurate, and kind, as 'lazy niggers', right? That my guild (of 100ish people) has only 3 or 4 players who kinda fit the geeky shut-in mold, and the rest are normal men and women leading ordinary lives? My mother plays WoW, and she's nearly 60. I can list off 10 couples right off the top of my head in our guild. Some players are casual, some are hardcore raiders. It's all a matter of what percentage of someone's leisure time they choose to spend playing WoW.
Sitting on a couch watching TV is a less worthy pursuit, in my mind, than killing undead minions in WoW. But the stigma of watching TV is notably less.
Valve does the same thing with Steam and TF2 (Score:5, Interesting)
Steam shows how much you have played a certain game in total: http://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker/ [steamcommunity.com] and you can view the inventories of TF2 players ( http://www.tf2items.com/ [tf2items.com] ).
However unlike WoW, you can opt out as player info can't be obtained from private player profiles. When someone asked Valve why you can't grab "information" from a player who marked their profile as private, they said it was a recommendation from their lawyers. Interesting...
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Actually Steam is opt-in - also when they started doing the public tracking I wrote them a strongly worded letter (at that point they wouldn't allow you to opt out again) where I pointed out that their tracking mechanism is very much against the law to not be opt-outable in Denmark (where steam does business), shortly after they changed their practice and you can no longer find my profile on steam.
beyond stupid. (Score:5, Interesting)
are these people aware that it takes ages to upgrade even a tiny piece of your gear, if you already have reached a certain item level ?
unless you go changing your items for show or for leisure like a monkey, and just leave your top tier items where they are, noone will be able to make out anything about your 'habits'.
and if you are a raider who also does rp or does pvp and you routinely change armor sets, all they will be doing is knowing at what hour you raid. but then again after all there are a lot of guildies knowing that, and you people probably arrange those times on a forum which is probably open to public anyway.
then whats the ruckus ...
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The only real things someone might be able to know, (especially with a class like a druid that requires up to eight [1] different sets of gear), is that someone might be PvP-ing, or running dungeons/raids when they do an armor swap. Some people who don't PvP can get away with a single set of gear if their class is a DPS only class (hunter, mage).
Knowing someone is in PvP or PvE gear, especially on a PvP server may mean something though, especially if griefing is involved. For example, if someone is in the
Asked for comment (Score:4, Insightful)
Asked for comment, the involved parties responded "Wait, you thought that information was private before?"
How can you stalk someone? (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean this could work for stalking their character, but there is no tie between a character and the person behind it unless you choose to make one. This really doesn't change anything. If you reveal your name, address, etc to someone then sure they can use it to stalk you. However your WoW character doesn't reveal that. Just don't go telling random people on WoW who you are and there isn't a problem.
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Even if someone does use this to stalk your character, how will that even matter? What are they going to do, send illicit chat messages? Try to follow your character around in-game? Good luck with that.
And as for the tie from character to real-life person, if that tie exists just change your character's name. Also, the most anyone could glean from such a tie is what time of day you're normally on your PC. There's no other way a stalker could possibly get that info, right?
As usual, a bunch of FUD.
What's next? (Score:4, Funny)
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Based on your comment history that slashdot easily gives us, I can roughly assume that you normally check slashdot from 10PM-2AM.
Stalking. (Score:2)
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Anyway, it's not like they're linking it to a real life identity. You couldn't pick out my WoW character from my Slashdot ID, or my real name. Nor could you reverse it to
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And as such it's okay for Blizzard to create a feature that allows them to be cyberstalked and harassed?
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See my signature, I believe that people finding me by interest is more important than privacy.
I believe the same, though I do not believe that either of us has the right to decide this for others. Blizzard has the right to publish this data, but is it right? I feel strongly that not providing opt-out is wrong, at least.
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I see (Score:4, Funny)
Nasty habit of disclosing data (Score:2)
Blizzard, since the launch of the Armory, has a pretty iffy track-record when it comes to revealing data. They seem to assume that everyone is happy to have the information shared, but this is a pretty big assumption. Their revealing gold-related statistics causing a bit of a storm. Although it was never possible to determine how much gold someone would have, the statistics made it possible to get a rough idea of how rich someone was likely to be.
The Armory is a great tool, but they really do need to allow
Slashdot Adds Timestamps To Slashdot Threads (Score:3, Insightful)
Stalker's log, WOWDate 2010.01.20 (Score:2)
On line stalking not the same on WoW (Score:2)
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MUD Games [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]
It's not too late, folks. (Score:2)
Sign out of the bloody game for good: http://www.wowdetox.com/ [wowdetox.com]
I did just over 3 years ago and don't regret it.
Blizzard does a nono (Score:2)
Oops, big time mistake on blizzards part, I don't need anyone knowing my game times whether real time or not, I allow WoW to know, but not anybody (especially ones without an account that want to poke fun at you). The problem here is that when someone
looks you up, they need to know who you are toon wise, and what all your alts are as well as the server(s) you are on.
You can name change and server change to avoid problems...but to my knowledge, someone who knows how the game is played has unlimited access to
Real Reason (Score:2, Interesting)
Since this went live I have gotten over 700 requests from employers wanting to contract me to compare those time stamps to select employees known to play WoW to ensure that they are not playing during work hours.
I wrote a perl script years ago that scans and dumps Lotus Notes email containing select keywords and back then it was targeted towards Everquest players but I'm sure they have since updated it for other games. It's trivial to correlate email to character info if you, for instance, raid with coworke
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Ok, I call B.S. Nice troll, but I don't believe in the few days since this came out that you've gotten _any_ requests from employers. Even if said employers were interested, and all knew that you could hypothetically offer this service, there's no way for them to match a WoW Armory Profile with a real name. You say, "it's trivial to correlate email to character info if you, for instance, raid with coworkers," but how precisely would go about doing that? I suppose you might get lucky and have some mentio
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Keep this in mind: If your employer knows you play WoW and you have EVER played during the work week start checking the job boards my friend. They won't bother to check if you were on vacation, they'll simply red flag you none the less. There is a frenzy brewing and anyone looking for an excuse to show you the door this is a great little tool for that.
You seem to know very little about the actual management process. Just as an FYI:
1) Terminations are either at will (meaning no reason is required and unemployment is paid without challenge) or heavily documented. This might contribute a data point to the 'case' made against you, but unless the boss can prove they told you to STOP (followed up by multiple counseling sessions, action plans, and the like), then the RSS feed isn't going to actually count for much.
2) If you're worried about an at will employe
Re:Great time to stop playing WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never understood the draw and allure that WoW provides, and why people get addicted to the point that they drop out of schools. Maybe I am one of the few people that is lucky and doesn't require simulation from an online fake environment to further foster my own mind.
Most of us WoW players are casuals, dropping in for an hour or two each day that would otherwise be spent on television. The rest of the time we work, spend time with our wife/husband/squid/mollusc and lead normal lives. My wife and I are having a child soon, we're moving house, I work too many hours in the office and still I find time for reading books, sleeping relatively normal amounts and playing WoW.
It's just a game. Most of us find balance in our lives.
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Indeed, my television usage has dropped to zero after I started playing WoW (I still do my work (reading slashdot...) and out being social every weekend) - regarding the addiction, I was thinking when I hit 80 with my first toon that I kinda done everything and needed a new game, then I accidentically ended up in a PvP battle in wintergrasp and now I'm good an proper addicted.
Re:Great time to stop playing WoW (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, what he said! We are just social drink... I mean smok... I mean players, we can quit anytime we want. Any time at all. Any time we feel like it. We have no problem, no problem at all... gotta go, there is a raid on.
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Re:Great time to stop playing WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
turning down social interactions to instead go raiding with their groups
That certainly can be a social interaction - just because people aren't sat in the same room talking face to face doesn't mean they're not talking.
an online fake environment
What's fake about it, in entertainment terms? In what ways are other forms of entertainment more real?
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"In what ways are other forms of entertainment more real?"
Now this is real entertainment... not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrIugmr8kzE [youtube.com]
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Re:Great time to stop playing WoW (Score:4, Interesting)
WOW and most other MMOs are like fruit machines. They are attractive, bright and entertaining worlds that train the user to perform repetitive tasks for the expectation of a random reward (e.g. item drops).
Like gambling some people know when to stop and others don't. Some people play for fun and many more because of force of habit or addiction. More fool them.
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Growth-based computer games provide easy, fast accomplishments, and this in some cases creates psychological addiction. I went thru this phase several times, and it ain't pretty remembering how good it felt then.
This works so much faster than in real life, and the rewards are (relatively) so big, real life doesn't offer anything like it (and to top it all, the games can be seen as being played for free, or almost for free - this isn't true at all, but it can be seen like that at the ti
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Re:Great time to stop playing WoW (Score:4, Insightful)
That's scary, and you certainly shouldn't be playing these kinds of games if that's the effect they have on you.
But other people are not you.
While being a player of WoW, I have:
Gotten 1 of every class, on both Alliance and Horde side, to level 70 (most to 80, still dragging ass on getting my Warlocks and Warriors to level 80 - they're boring), seen the inside of every raid, and even gotten the Lore Master (did pretty much every quest in the game) achievement when it was a little harder.
I've also gotten 2 degrees, started work on a third, maintained a 4.0 gpa in grad school throughout that process, got a fantastic job at university, gotten promoted twice, been an author (and actually did the work) on over 20 papers, given god only knows how many job talks, been party to a dozen posters at events, dated a lot, found someone I like and we live together now, had a social life, and generally all of those accomplishments are VASTLY more good feeling to me.
I have a sense of proportion, I guess - I'm able to make the distinction between wow levels & gear and actually accomplishing things. People who can't do that - you're right - they shouldn't play games like WoW, because clearly they can't handle it.
Happiness (Score:3)
It sounds to me like you were addicted to WoW. But you're also addicted to life. You're grinding for grades, degrees, jobs, promotions, papers, and relationships.
The only way to judge that you are healthier than a WoW-only addict is to declare that traditional accomplishments are more important than video game accomplishments. And that judgment is a matter of happiness. Do traditional accomplishments generate more happiness than video game accomplishments? Probably, especially in the long term. But only if
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From zero to virtual hero in 80 levels.
WoW addiction: Clear goals, easy victories! (Score:3, Insightful)
I've never understood the draw and allure that WoW provides, and why people get addicted to the point that they drop out of schools.
It could be that people are unsatisfied with their real life and aren't well-equipped to manage it. I know for sure I learned more than I'm happy to admit about life management (setting goals, working towards them) from David Allen and his Getting Things Done. Maybe I'm not the only one who'd do well to read some of his thoughts?
In any case, In contrast to a poorly managed real life, WoW gives you some very clear goals ("kill monster(s)" and "fetch item(s)" are popular, I hear; they worked in Diablo II),
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Maybe hanging out with you is just less interesting/compelling than raiding. :D
Seriously, though, I think the people that get "hooked" on WoW would fuck up for other reasons. When I was in college I had friends who dropped out over a relationship gone bad, or drinking, or drugs, or depression, or socializing, or anything else you'd care to name. People dropping out of college is not a new thing - it's been going on since there have been colleges to drop out from.
My great uncle, who is 80, flunked out of col
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If addiction was really easy get over, we wouldn't have problems with crack cocaine, gambling and alcoholism.
Re:Job absentism (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a huge difference between staying at home ill, sat at my desk within easy reach of my bed if I need it (or even in bed if I game on a laptop), staying in the warm, and not having to struggle through a 90 minute commute, and going in to the office, being unproductive as I infect my co-workers with whatever nasty little germ I have.
Just because you're not too ill to sit at one desk, doesn't mean you're well enough to sit at another.
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When I was playing WoW I'd always end up sick on patch Tuesdays which meant the server would be down most of the day anyway...
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unless your job consist of carrying heavy objects all day long or something really physical then YES its the frigging same thing sitting at one desk or another
for christ sake people need to get a grip on reality
Including you. The reality is that I could be off for three days feeling like death, and on the fourth day still feel shonky enough to think I might be contagious, but not enough to be fully bedridden. I have a choice of either going to work, coughing on three people, and costing my company nine days of lost productivity, or staying home and playing WoW and costing my company one day of productivity. I think I know which my manager'd prefer.
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Your lucky I have no mod points, I would have modded you troll 10 times over.
Did you ever think the reason why some people like it, is they already have paid for the game, and don't need to spend another uber fortune to play other similar games, my next game will NOT be another one like WoW, enough is enough....
the only game I might buy like minded as WoW, would be star wars MMO coming soon, but other then that, keep it offline for me from now on.