BioShock 2 Released 209
BioShock 2 launched today for the PS3, Xbox 360 and Windows, ending the wait for a sequel to the original 2007 blockbuster. The events in BioShock 2 take place 10 years after the story from the original game. This time around, players control a prototype Big Daddy in an attempt to overthrow the new leader of Rapture. Early reviews for the game are quite strong, though the developers were prepared for fan backlash over some of the changes they made. The Guardian's Nicky Woolf praises the new storyline, and adds that "there is a fundamentally excellent shooter here too, with some of the best combat dynamics in the business." Rock, Paper, Shotgun's Alec Meer also had good things to say about the combat: "I can't stress this enough – as a game about shooting people, it's very responsive and very rewarding." However, Meer expressed disappointment that some of the impressive new concept art didn't get used and that the story and environment couldn't match the novelty of the original game. "Part of Rapture's great wonder was that it was just believable enough, if you squinted your brain a bit (or a lot), but this lathers on so much wild sci-fi that it's much harder to connect to it. The Sisters are elevated from horrifying genetic/psychological experiment into all-powerful messiah figures capable of pulling any old deus ex machina out of the hat. Making them into so much reduces the power and the sadness of what they are. As a result, the concept feels too exhausted to ever be used again."
Ending the wait? (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, a huge three years between games.
You guys never played Zelda, Metroid, Diablo or StarCraft, have you?
Re:Ending the wait? (Score:4, Interesting)
Or half-life, Doom, Quake, or...
I'm still skeptical though. The original bioshock didnt even keep the same mouse sensitivity through level loads/changes, that's a pretty fundamental problem.
Metacritic alone is proof that "reviews" don't mean anything about the quality of a game, just look at Far Cry 2: The "professional" rating is near perfect and the aggregade of ~500+ user ratings is pretty much the opposite.
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DAMMIT! AggregaTe! Now I sound like I'm talking about some kind of sports drink.
Re:Ending the wait? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Final Fantasy: Dirge of Cerebrus got bad reviews just because the fanboys were expecting the same old shit. I thought a Final Fantasy FPS was a welcome departure for the series, and it was very well done for an afterthought.
Re:Ending the wait? (Score:4, Interesting)
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just look at Far Cry 2: The "professional" rating is near perfect and the aggregade of ~500+ user ratings is pretty much the opposite.
That's because the "professional" reviewers don't play the whole game. So for something like Far Cry 2, they only got slightly bored with the repetitive gameplay, the game-stopping glitches, and the woefully terrible savegame system (I was wondering why my game had become terribly slow...turns out my save folder was 5 GB from quicksaving).
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Oh crap, don't remind me of Lost in Translation. After hearing so much about it I rented it and watched it with the family. We all agreed that it was a terrible movie.
Professional reviewers seem to review more on polish than actual fun. My favourite examples here are MaBoShi's Arcade (WiiWare) and Earth Defense Force 2017 (Xbox 360). MaBoShi is extremely polished. Really to an insane degree, you can even download it to your DS and play on the go. The only downside is... the core gameplay is uninteresting. M
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::begin self promotion::
Perhaps you would be interested in my game reviews then? I try to approach them as somewhere between a game reviewer and a game player. I like to think I do OK, although my writing could use a little work :-) Some reviews of games I've done recently:
Mass Effect 2 [livingwithanerd.com]
Torchlight [livingwithanerd.com]
Modern Warfare 2 (Single Player only) [livingwithanerd.com]
Borderlands [livingwithanerd.com]
The Dark Spire [livingwithanerd.com]
I do my best to keep personal excitement out of the review and stick only to my experience playing the game, but alas I'm not always able to :-( ::end
Film at 11? (Score:2)
Professional reviews are paid for, film at 11 rated highly by sellout monthly.
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Wow, a huge three years between games.
You guys never played Zelda, Metroid, Diablo or StarCraft, have you?
civilization, simcity ...
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Gran Tourismo 5 (which I fear is going to suffer the same fate as DNF)
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I guess they were expecting a DNF-type wait.
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What's funny is that in racing, DNF means "Did Not Finish".
Re:Ending the wait? (Score:5, Funny)
You guys never played Zelda, Metroid, Diablo or StarCraft, have you?
I play Duke Nukem, you insensitive clod!
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Okay, now THAT deserves a +5, Funny.
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Don't play the GameCube versions of Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2. Get yourself the Metroid Prime Trilogy for the Wii. The 1st and 2nd game have been upgraded (graphics, controls, etc).
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Nintendo discontinued it. But you're right, I recommend it too. They are much better as wii games. Go find a used copy.
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It's out of print, but there are plenty of stores that still have a copy on the shelves. And I agree, it's one of the best Wii games I own.
DRM? (Score:3, Interesting)
What kind of DRM does the PC version have?
I never bought the first game, due to the draconian DRM. By the time it was eased, there were so many other great games on my list to purchase and play that I never got back around to Bioshock. The end result: They lost my business.
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
Supposedly it has:
- securom
- steam
- Games for Windows Live
All at once. Of course rumor has it the pirate bay version was available yesterday and had all those things stripped out.
A lot of people refuse to buy this game because of the DRM.
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yeah, that's a whole lot of "I'm going to pirate instead of buy because that's a whole lot of garbage", at least to me.
Adding windows live even when securom is removed isn't even a tradeoff. It's worse.
Re:DRM? (Score:4, Insightful)
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What does Windows Live have anything to do with DRM?
All it does it integrate the PC game with the Xbox Live system, so you can track achievements, IM Xbox Live-using friends, etc. It also provides voice chat for games that don't already have that.
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While it's not technically DRM, it feels like DRM because it's tracking software that the user has little control over if they want to play their game.
That's complete nonsense. Don't devalue the term "DRM" by applying it to things that aren't Digital Restriction Management in any way, shape or form.
In any case, as an Xbox owner, I appreciate it... my achievements all go into the same place, instead of having a set in Steam, another set on Xbox, etc. Steam and Live aren't redundant until Live runs on *all* S
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Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
GFWL isn't explicitly DRM, but it has some DRM-ish aspects to it. For example, with an online account you must be logged in to access your save games on many newer games. Granted, you can create an offline account, but you can't share save games between your online account and offline account. So if you start a game online, you better be prepared to finish it online. This problem is further compounded by two things. First, games using GFWL must be patched through GFWL. There is no alternate route if say GFWL's servers are down. Also, you can only be logged into your GFWL account in one place at a time. That might not seem like a problem, but if you have an Xbox 360, then your GFWL account is likely shared with your gamertag. So if your wife wants to watch Netflix on the Xbox and you want to play Red Faction: Guerrilla on your PC, tough luck. Only one of you can log in.
So like I said, GFWL isn't exactly DRM. But keep in mind that the problem that people have with DRM is not that they can't pirate the games, it's that it restricts legitimate use of the product, or at least makes legitimate use unnecessarily convoluted and cumbersome, which is exactly what GFWL does.
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That and unlike Steam you can't even tell Windows Live to download the patch while you browse the net or something, you have to start the game and stare at the progress bar that won't tell you how much time is left, if you alt-tab away it halts the download.
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Meh, its not as bad as it sounds.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55023 [2kgames.com]
You can turn off Live for windows (I won't, I am an achievement whore) and I buy most of my games from stream anyway so fine with that.
But why even bother with securom anymore?
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I want to have none, I will compromise on Steam. Their current offer is unacceptable. Strip out securom and live, and we'll talk.
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Wow. I still haven't picked up the first BioShock because of the DRM.
2k released a Civ 4 bundle with NO DRM. Maybe they'll come around in a few years.
Re:DRM? (Score:4, Informative)
Protection: SecuROM+XLive+PA
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It's a sad day when you have to turn to the "illegal" venues to actually get accurate information about the DRM of a game you might have bought.
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
The DRM for Bioshock 2 is even worse than before. Securom is still there and requires online activation and now there is Games for Windows Live forcing it's own online activation and 15 install activation limit.
The real kicker is that 2K has a thread where they lie and claim they "scaled back" the DRM by removing the 5 install limit set by Securom - but it's irrelevant since GFWL has it's own install limit. Oh, and if you buy it on Steam? You get the Steam DRM + Securom + GFWL - that's 3x DRM......and yet 2K claims that they listened to customers after the fiasco that was Bioshock's DRM.
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If there is DRM there, it was totally transparent. The way it should be.
No, the way it should be is "non-existent". It's not a matter of a 15 install limit, it's that you have to contact the company and ask permission to install the software that YOU BOUGHT. At any time they can turn off the activation servers or go out of business and your money is wasted. THAT is why it's a problem.
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Actually, you bought a *license* for the software.
No, they claim you bought a license, when you actually purchased the software. Just like how Ford can't claim that you only bought a *license* to drive a car.
Note, I'm not a fan of DRM, but understand why they do it.
They do it to piss off their paying customers so that they'll either boycott or pirate - but either way they lose money. I've said it more times than I can count - American businesses are run by morons.
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Re:DRM? (Score:4, Insightful)
Strange that I buy a license when it fits into the plans of the company but I bought a medium when I want a replacement because it got scratched. After all, I have a license that is not time limited, thus should be allowed to another medium (which is required to play due to DRM), right?
It must be like that dual nature of photons in physics, it's a license or a product, depending on what property we need to make the maker happy...
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Whining about a 15 install limit is really pushing it. If you have installed anything more than 15 times I would be surprised.
Over the course of the next decade or two? You bet I would use that up.
But then again, I'm fairly sure that authentication server will not be available in a decade or two, so I guess you are right. It's not the install limit that will keep me from playing my game, it's the fact that they don't want me to play it anymore.
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I never bought the first game, due to the draconian DRM. By the time it was eased, there were so many other great games on my list to purchase and play that I never got back around to Bioshock. The end result: They lost my business.
The problem is that they don't need your business:
Bestsellers in PC Games [amazon.com], Bestsellers in Console Gaming - Hardware and Software [amazon.com]
Bioshock is #12 on the PC list, just out of the top ten. Bioshock was released in August 2007.
Bioshock & Oblivion Bundle [amazon.com] [XBox 360]
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Re:DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Actually, it's dying because too many PC gamers download games without paying for them. That's why they introduced DRM in the first place. It doesn't really work, but such is life.
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Actually, it's dying because too many PC gamers download games without paying for them. That's why they introduced DRM in the first place. It doesn't really work, but such is life.
That's not the whole story. I (and many others like me) absolutely DESPISE DRM. If you look at the large CD holder on my desk, you will find ~160 retail games released between 1994-2003. Released between 2003-now? 20. Only 20. Despite the fact that I have more disposable income than I did back then, I am buying FAR LESS PC games now. The only way I will pay for a PC game is if it is DRM-free beyond a serial number/CD check, or if it's from a designer/developer I want to support.
In the case of the form
What's new? (Score:3, Interesting)
I really enjoyed the first game. It had a lot of new elements thrown into it. Far from being a straight-up shooter, there was quite a bit of exploration required. Some areas reminded me of Thief for the PC. I liked the options to "level up" your character, and the moral choice to harvest / not to harvest the Little Sisters. (Although I didn't realize that it was all-or-nothing with that, so while I only harvested 1 Little Sister [the first one] I got the "bad" ending.)
Graphically, the first game felt a little dated, even at launch. But it was a great example of what a great story and plot arc can do to overcome graphics.
That said, I'm not looking forward to the sequel at all. I'm going to skip this one. Meer reflects the same thoughts I had when I first learned of a Bioshock 2: "Part of Rapture's great wonder was that it was just believable enough, if you squinted your brain a bit (or a lot), but this lathers on so much wild sci-fi that it's much harder to connect to it."
I don't think the follow-up will hold up. Part of that is that too many gamers (like me) would keep comparing a sequel to an original game that was (in many ways) groundbreaking. And it's awfully hard to live up to that.
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I don't think the follow-up will hold up. Part of that is that too many gamers (like me) would keep comparing a sequel to an original game that was (in many ways) groundbreaking. And it's awfully hard to live up to that.
This was exactly how I felt...until I realized that I was being foolish. I've never said this about a sequel before, but in the case of Bioshock 2, I don't care if it's more of the same...more of the same of Bioshock is a GREAT thing. Even if it doesn't improve on anything, it would still be worth playing based on the fact that we get more Rapture!
Sorry if I sound like a drooling Bioshock cultist, but seriously, ask yourself...would more of the first game be a bad thing?
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Re:What's new? (Score:4, Informative)
However, the team that did the first one went out of their way to point out that they were NOT AT ALL involved with this one.
You mean except for the fact that at least 5 members of the original team worked on the sequel?
Not groundbreaking at all, System Shock 2 clone (Score:5, Insightful)
Hands down, System Shock 2 was better in every way than Bioshock (well, OK, graphically Bioshock is far better but then you'd expect that given the progression of engine abilities).
Most specifically, I like the background of Bioshock BUT the twist in the middle of the story really pissed me off, at least the way they handled it from user interaction. They were going somewhere subtle and then all of the sudden you have no choices (despite supposedly the game being about choice) and a Mu-Ha-Ha villain lacking only a twirly mustache.
That's not to say at some point I will not play Bioshock 2, I just have trouble really putting my heart into it after Bioshock was such a weak game compared to the story and gameplay of System Shock...
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That's not to say at some point I will not play Bioshock 2, I just have trouble really putting my heart into it after Bioshock was such a weak game compared to the story and gameplay of System Shock...
...why are you comparing the two? Even though they had many of the same people working on them and shared thematic similarities, they were two very different games.
Re:Not groundbreaking at all, System Shock 2 clone (Score:5, Insightful)
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they were two very different games
Note: mild spoilers ahead.
System Shock 2
* you awake to find yourself in the middle of a catastrophe; disorientated you must fight to survive in an unfamiliar environment
* you can specialise in combat, psi powers or a mixture
* there are automated systems and vending machines that can be hacked
* there are collectable upgrade modules that can be exchanged for upgraded stats, new psi powers, etc
* there are hypos, first aid kits, food and drink that can be used to increase healt
Thanks (Score:2)
I came up with a tiny, tiny subset of that list but yours is really comprehensive and really lays out the great number of similarities.
One thing, although there is not exactly a skill tree the way you acquire new plasmids is along the same lines of how you would gain points to acquire new skills, it just means you can sort of adapt your "equipped skill tree" along the way, though only to a certain extent as you cannot afford the whole tree. I am not sure if I like that less or more yet, though the SS2 appr
What was different gameplay-wise? (Score:2)
Although the mechanisms by which you leveled up differed, they seemed really similar to me - Plasmids/Psionic powers, hacking skills you could improve, hacking into turrets, scripted events... some of that is common now, but the main point I am making is there's nothing Bioshock did that was really revolutionary because the elements that made Bi
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Welcome to (_)SYSTEM SHOCK 2\(_)BIOSHOCK
After a short (_)TRAINING\(_)BATHYSPHERE section you awaken in a (_)SPACESHIP\(_)UNDERWATER CITY that is in a clear state of disrepair, signs of something going horribly wrong and so forth. Immediately you are contacted by (_)POLITO\(_)ATLAS who explains that something went wrong and they want to meet
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I will likely go the "buy to support the devs/download to actually play the damn thing" route. DRM (and not having an updated computer) were the reasons why I went with the 360 version the first time
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Someone should mod System Shock games to use BioShock engines, but then companies won't like it. :(
System Shock Reboot Please (Score:2)
We just saw a reboot of Star Trek, and Spiderman is already about to reboot too...
Why don't truly classic video games like System Shock get reboots like movies and TV? I mean, take the same story and tweak it a bit. I think companies figure people have played through it already so they would not buy it - but aren't there about two whole gaming generations around that have never even heard of System Shock? And if you sprinkle a few surprises in there I'll be just as happy to play though a great story agai
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***Major spoilers for those that never played the first Bioshock***
Agreed. Pulling off that type of twist in another medium (such as film) would have be nearly impossible. The illusion of free will was exactly that...an illusion. Up until the showdown with Ryan, you THOUGHT you were in control...but if you go back through it again, you will see that any time Atlas asked you to "kindly" do something, you couldn't advance through the game without doing it...just like during and after the showdown with Ryan
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True, and while I wouldn't call Bioshock an open-world game, they made it JUST open enough to not make the would-you-kindly and progression go hand in hand. In fact, the only thing unrealistic about the progression in Bioshock isn't that it is linear, but the fact that there is a navigable route through a war-torn Rapture.
I had a similar problem with the first Half-Life. Amazing game, but...I mean come on, what are the chances of every part of the escape route you took being open? The fact that an intens
That is exactly where they failed most SPOILER (Score:2)
To me it seemed obvious the game was about the illusion of free will, serving as a rather well-executed illustration of determinism
SPOILER SPOILER STOP READING IF THIS GETS MODDED UP UNLESS YOU HAVE FINISHED BIOSHOCK .. ..
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Of course it was. And that's what made me most angry, the fact that they fumbled that totally with the Ryan killing scene.
If they truly wanted to illustrate you had no choice other than to kill Ryan because of your programming, they should have given you LESS CHOICE in what you co
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Immersion (Score:2)
Part of Rapture's great wonder was that it was just believable enough, if you squinted your brain a bit (or a lot), but this lathers on so much wild sci-fi that it's much harder to connect to it.
I'm a little bit afraid of the person who thought Bioshock was "believable".
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I'm a little bit afraid of the person who thought Bioshock was "believable".
In a genre that gave us Prey, Halflife, and Doom, Bioshock was not too bad...
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Re:Immersion (Score:4, Interesting)
>I'm a little bit afraid of the person who thought Bioshock was "believable".
Dunno, obviously the fantastic elements are ridiculous, but there's no shortage of Randians and other nutters looking for some kind of new floating society. The last time I heard about this nuttiness was "The Freedom Ship," kinda a libertarian/randian/right-wing fantasy about living on the seas tax-free (ignoring the massive ship assessment fee of course!). I think its 100% believable to think that fanatics would attempt to try to start their own little society or compound. Religious types seem to do it all the time.
I second this proposal! (Score:2, Funny)
I'm ready to play (Score:5, Funny)
If it's anything like "rogue" or "nethack" crossed with "tetris" and "super mario" ... I'm ready to play!
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DRM? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
What's the story with DRM on this game?
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55023 [2kgames.com]
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Wow, that's 57 pages of people asking the official representative to describe exactly what the limitations of the DRM are, and not getting a complete answer that doesn't conflict with what it says on the box or on Steam.
It sounds like you need to have SecuROM (max 5 activations, whatever that means) and also Microsoft Games for Windows Live (max 15 activations, whatever that means) and you need to register online with Microsoft before being able to use the disk you purchased at the store.
Am I the only one (Score:2)
who thought the original was boring?
Re:Am I the only one (Score:4, Insightful)
who thought the original was boring?
System Shock was far from boring.
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Nope. I'm with you.
Walk around in trashed faux 1920s underwater cavern... kill zombie... find key... kill zombie... listen to over the top voice acting... kill zombie... kill zombie... kill zombie... kill big daddy... kill zombie... find key... kill zombie...
I thought the first game was nice to look at, had an interesting background plot compared to most games, but was pretty damn average to play. The fps combat was decidedly mediocre, and it felt like there were two or three types of enemies in the whole
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Disappointing in addition to boring. It's like the perfect picture of everything that is wrong with the dumbing down of gaming to cater for the console crowd, emphasized that much more when people claim that it's some sort of spiritual successor to System Shock 2. Bioshock shouldn't be allowed to be mentioned in the same paragraph as SS2.
It has all the standard gripes with a console FPS, sluggish aiming, a horrible FOV, massive targeting reticule ... and then it ends up using that amazing setting, atmospher
Guess I'm one of the critics to ignore (Score:3, Interesting)
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If you like FPS games I strongly recommend you try STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, if you haven't.
It didn't get a whole lot of press, but it's one of the best single player non-Valve FPS games to come out in--oh, years probably.
No console version, PC only, which probably helped. It's (sorely needed) proof that the genre isn't completely worn out.
It's available on Steam. Should be super cheap by now.
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Out of curiosity, what did you think of Deadspace?
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It would have been more interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
...if they had allowed you to play as a Little Sister, the target of every Splicer, crawling through the ducts for safe transit, popping out here or there to try and drain some Adam from a corpse, scampering around various Big Daddy's for protection (or deliberately drawing enemies to Big Daddys to get them killed), perhaps being able to set traps or sabotage things.
I suppose a scenario like that would've made the game more puzzle-like rather than a shooter, but I think it still would've been pretty interes
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The multiplayer is set before the original game. The single player happens 10 years after.
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This is the first I've heard of this physics issue (played the first one on 360). Care to elaborate a bit? Sounds weird...
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Odd. Well, I gotta ask the obvious question...did anyone think to up the visual settings on their PC so the whole game ran closer to 30 FPS? Would that make the issue less noticable, or did the problem scale down as well?
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I'm sure there is SOME logical explanation for it...it seems daffy that they would do that without good reason. Still, it's an odd one. Thanks for bringing this up though, I was completely unaware of it!
Re:Whine all you want, it's still an awesome game (Score:4, Interesting)
Screw the critics. I love BioShock. The storyline, the drama, the graphics, the subtle all-pervading insanity.
How are deformed mask wearing cannibals subtle? Seems pretty obvious the level of insainty.
"Ooh, the concept appears unbalanced." ... "Waah, it's not as believable as the original." ... You know what? Put down the MacBook and the horn-rimmed glasses, back away from the Frappuccino, slowly, and STFU with all the art-school metaphysical crap.
I fail to see what a Mac Book, coffee products, or the rest of that bigotry has to do with the game.
The original kicked ass, pure and simple. How many other games offer that combination of determination and sadness, beautiful scenery and horrifying monsters, fast action and beautiful cutscenes?
99% of most games. I can't think of a Final Fantasy game for instance that didn't provide everything you just mentioned.
The environments, the puzzles, the music and sound effects - BioShock created an amazing world to rival Alice and Firefly, and engaged the player immediately and completely. Enough plot twists to make M. Night Shyamalan green with envy, culminating with finding out the truth about the voice on the radio, and the awesome "Man Vs Slave" cutscene.
The story is basic and most saw the double cross in the first 5 minutes. Atlas was far too much in the know to be as benign has he claimed to be.
The scenery is standard 30,40,50 thematics used in Fallout and a variety of other post-apocalyptic settings shooting for a Film Noir feel (see Dark City as a good example of the reuse of that era for effect.) I kept waiting for a Pip Boy ad.
The graphical elements were further more a re-use of Jules Vern crap and the Little Sister could be either The Stepford Wives or Village of the Damn. Take your pick. Both rather one dimensional.
The time line is inconsistent with more anacronisms within it's own lore is was barely tolerable.
The degeneration of the Plasmid users was nothing more then a set piece of zombie fantasy. The quickest and CHEAPEST way in a story to detach from conventional society is to use "The Zombie" be it fast running cannibals (28 Days) to the slow lumbering doomwalkers (Night of the Living Dead) they are cheap tools used to remove conventional society (almost as cheap as a nuclear apocalypse) from the world. Add in some uncanny valley-like responses from the audience by keeping them semi-human (rather then 80% rotting we want to unnerve the audience by keeping them 'fresh') for cheap effects.
The character development was non-existent save for a single woman pining over the leader described through audio tapes. Hell Borderlands had twice the character development with just the Tannis character alone.
Don't know about the critics, but I personally have enough faith in the sequel to have pre-ordered it. Especially considering all the bonus stuff that's included. :D
Sadly video games have come a long way in the ability to tell a story... but they have a long way to go. Enjoy it for what it is, a game. It is far from literature that people will be reading\playing in a 100 years...
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Actually M. Night Shyamalan wrote Bioshock 2's script but it was canned after they found out he was one of the masterminds behind 9/11