Project Natal Renamed 'Kinect' 286
tekgoblin writes "Many people gathered for the opening of E3 to see Project Natal. When they entered they were told that the new name of Natal is Kinect. Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller-free. You can browse your dashboard with the wave of your hand."
I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a shame that MS and Sony seem to be investing all their efforts into jumping on a motion controller fad that's already fading fast (seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?). Meanwhile, MS is on the verge of breaking the 5-year rule with the 360, with Sony soon to follow--with no next-gen systems in sight. Both consoles are already showing their age--especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.
I know there is a recession on and all, but the 5-year rule has held through recessions before. It even held during the early 80's console "collapse." Every day these systems age is another day that PC gaming starts to look more and more attractive to many of us gamers. And I really don't want to go back to PC gaming. But I also don't want to be playing on a console that's viewed more and more as a "toy," rather than a serious gaming platform.
I know that MS and Sony want to capture the casual market, but it seems misguided to me. Wii already *has* that market, and a knockoff copy of their controller probably isn't going to change that. Meanwhile, they risk losing the gamer market and ending up not pleasing anyone (by trying to please everyone).
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:5, Insightful)
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Can't the PS3 do 1080p? I know several of the games have that marked on the back of the box...
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You can probably expect more "tricks" to keep games from now on looking
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Uh, who made this "5-year rule" up, exactly? You?
Microsoft sure didn't. [engadget.com]
The original XBox had a life-span of about 4 years, not really enough time to recoup losses made. I'm not surprised that as the consoles get more expensive to make, that people want to push them out longer to make a reasonable profit on them.
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Even if MS release a new console that doesn't mean the lifespan of the 360 is over. The PS2 is still having new games made for it, so it hasn't reached its full lifespan yet despite the PS3 being out. I think that's a pretty good thing as it caters to different segments of the market. Some people just can't afford a PS3 or 360..
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Actually, the PS2 has no more games being developed for it. I was actually in a Gamestop a month ago and there were only like 5 games in the pipeline before the EOL of new games to the PS2. And I can not justify buying a PS3 ESPECIALLY with the recent barrage of Firmware updates and EULA changes that take away the rights of the owner of the unit. I'll pass..
(BTW, I love the tag line)
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But even giving them 6 years, we should already be hearing about a next-gen 360.
That's what is really surprising me...
Seems to me that we used to start hearing rumblings about the next big thing about 3 or 4 years into a console. I haven't heard anything at all about a successor to any of these machines.
One could argue that we've hit some kind of peak and it we don't need a new console because current hardware is good enough... But that just doesn't seem to be true. As the OP pointed out, games are starting to exceed the storage capacity of the 360's DVD drive. The PS3 just started
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No, the PS3 has always had an HDMI port, they just didn't ship it with an HDMI cable.
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Cables aren't considered required components, anymore than you have to have batteries ship with all electronics to make them functional.
The fact that they just started shipping the cables is a non-issue. It had an HDMI port, the games supported, and so it was always HDMI-ready.
To the general topic though, the reality is that we're at a stage now where the games are pretty darned good on current hardware. We won't stay at this level forever, and there's certainly room for improvement, but at the level we'r
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especially the 360 with its DVD drive, already necessitating several multi-disc releases.
Remember back in the day, when people thought "Holy crap! It requires multiple disks! It must be HUGE!"? Final Fantasy VII is the example that immediately comes to mind.
Besides, multiple discs aren't really that big of a deal. I agree, it's nice having everything on one disc, but seriously...is it that hard to change the disc out every 10+ hours?
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The PS1's multi-disc games, towards the end, were getting to be a serious pain in the butt. They made you swap too often, mostly.
So while the current 360 multi-disc games aren't a yet a major pain, they will be before long. That, or they'll have lower-resolution videos and textures than their PS3 counterparts and will be ridiculed for it.
I'll admit, though... The current systems have lasted 5 years much better than the previous generations did.
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on my pc I expect never to have to piss about with the disc once i've installed the game (so unlike on consoles, drm that expects a disc to be in the drive really pisses me off)
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multi-disc games tend to have a bit more enforced linearity, removing your ability to do certain things or return to certain areas once you've switched to the next disc. I'd lay odds that this is one of the reasons FFXIII is more linear, unlike FFXII, a single disc game that while it has a linear storyline, you can go off and wander if you want.
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That's all well and good but it doesn't really matter when the end result is this [youtube.com].
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They're both stupid trackers. The Wii just happens to be more couch friendly.
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The idea for the Wii control system is good, just a lot of the games have been crap. Designing games around the controllers is a bit stupid too. Games work a lot better when the controller has been designed for the type of game than vice versa (ie guitar hero guitar or steering wheels).
The Sony system looks a lot more flexible than the MS one and so I have more hope that it can work with a broad range of game types. At least it should have buttons. I'm assuming the MS system is going to have to rely on vari
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I'd rather hear about "minor" upgrades to the 360/PS3. While this motion controller may not be anything revolutionary when compared to the Wii, some people might find it fun and buy it as a totally optional upgrade.
The example of the 360's DVDs is valid but does solving that problem require a totally new console? There could be another optional upgrade to Blu-ray (I wonder why that isn't out yet) to increase disk capacity.
I'd rather have small ones too just because I'm not ready to buy a totally new conso
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I don't see any reason why Microsoft has to build a new console. Installation numbers are still growing, as is the number of games. I have a hard time remembering it came out 5 years ago, and I still play my 360 very often (when not playing PC games)
Certainly they should upgrade the console itself though. And they are. There's talk of the Slim, they've been making bigger hard drives (could you imagine having the 20gb HD for the whole 10-year cycle! Hah!), Natal (I refuse to call it Kinect) to bring in more
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the big advantage about the 5 year rule was better graphics. the latest generation of consoles also had online built in. the whole motion gaming thing sounds cooler and worth buying rather than just better graphics
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I don't know about Microsoft, but I thought Sony announced in advance that they intended for it to be 10 years before the PS3 was replaced. Which means we have about... oh... 6 years to go.
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Natal, or 'Kinect' is different though, unfortunately not many people seem to have the imagination capable of seeing why so far however and just dismiss it as a clone of the Wii's control system.
The fundamental difference with Kinect is it's controllerless nature. A lot of people seem to see this as some mutually exclusive thing, but that's simply not the case. There's no reason Kinect can't be used with existing control systems- this may for example mean observing the player as they play an FPS and allowin
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Natal, or 'Kinect' is different though, unfortunately not many people seem to have the imagination capable of seeing why
I've been playing "controller less" video games at various science&tech exhibits since the 80s, and they all had one thing in common: Suckage.
This over-hyped gadget WILL disappoint once it's out of marketing-controlled settings, and you only have to read the works of Douglas Noel Adams to have a very eloquent explanation of why (in brief: the system is too dumb to correctly interpret movements).
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seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?
As of 10 AM ET this morning, the Will holds 11 of the top 25 slots - hardware and software - as best sellers in video games [amazon.com] for Amazon.com.
a knockoff copy of their controller
Natal was always much more than a knock-off.
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It's a shame that MS and Sony seem to be investing all their efforts into jumping on a motion controller fad that's already fading fast (seriously, how many gamers have Wii's gathering dust in their closets already?).
You are funny. You don't seem to understand what corporations want, which is profit - aka sales
You do realize that game sales for the Wii make the PS3 and 360 look like a joke right?
Best selling game for PS3: Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - 4.75m
360 - Halo3 - 8.1m
Wii - Wii Sports - 63.46m but ok that is *cheating* with a bundle, so how about Wii play - 27.38m but again bundled with a new controller... so Wii Fit - 22.61m but to be fair it came with hardware making the game cost about 2x as much as o
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There is no 5 year rule. Seriously. A couple generations back we had that cycle because technology was advancing rapidly. Now game console technology is waiting for consumers to catch up and adopt HD. Believe it or not, there's still plenty of people who don't have HDTVs. Also, now that people are getting HDTVs they're more than happy with the graphics on their 360 and PS3. Sony said, out the gate, that they were aiming for a 10 year product cycle on the PS3. Personally, I'm glad that no one (except
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Because I chased that rabbit for too long in the 90's. When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3. PC gaming is superior in many ways, no doubt. But it can also be a huge hassle.
And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we a
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:5, Interesting)
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I don't know if I'd say you "had to upgrade"... I'm sure there was more "want" in there. ;)
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agreed. my issue isnt the constant upgrades...but I sold my video card recently and bought a used PS3. im not as good at console games as at mouse./keyboard stuff on the pc but i can adjust, im *SICK* of the DRM restrictions on pc games. all i play on my pc now are old, old games i still have around, or titles under $10 from steam. Im not going to pay $50 and $60 a game anymore to get jerked around if my internet connection is acting up or get hassled in any other way.
I know several people with PS3s....none
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You mean the PS3 were they take away features with system updates? The consoles were they provide DLCs instead of including the content in the locked to your account so you can't resell your games? As for the "always online DRM", don't worry, it's coming [mygaming.co.za].
DRM is a disease that infects any kind of platform - the only way is to stop buying infected media and give our money to good guys like indie developers or the few large developers that don't rely on it.
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Just because you did this doesn't mean to say that you had to do it. If you look at the PC gaming stats [steampowered.com] you will see why the midrange graphics settings in games get called 'mainstream'. Only a third of people play at 1680x1050 or greater. It is because most people have fairly basic setups and they do not follow the perpetual upgrade path.
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:5, Insightful)
So what you're saying is you prefer less choice because you can't reign in your spending habits?
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If you read his original comment, he said he thinks these controllers are a waste of time.
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Dont forget with a console you're buying a TV
One TV that up to four people can share in a game like Bomberman, Power Stone, or Smash Bros. Compare to PC, where too many popular games follow the handheld pattern of needing a separate PC, monitor, and copy of the game per player.
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How many of those games came out in the past 5 years?
Every Wii game has come out in the past five years, and dozens of them support couch multiplayer. These include Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Tetris Party, Dr. Mario Online Rx, and a bunch that I happen not to own such as Carnival Games, Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario Party 8, etc. If you drop down to two players, you add a bunch of fighting games.
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:4, Funny)
In comparison consoles are hugely stable, low maintenance and pretty much fool-proof in terms of operation
The irony of posting this in a 360-related thread is somewhat overwhelming.
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Only crazy people are "having to constantly be upgrading"
I take it you're not a grinder. I'm not either, but I do understand grinders. The same people that get a huge kick out of games designed around endless repetition, will be equally addicted to the game of "buy the top of the line graphics card the day its released". They don't have to do so for any reason, other than enjoying the grind itself. So trying to explain to them that they "DON'T REALLY HAVE TO GRIND VIDEO CARDS" is futile, because what they enjoy is the process of grinding itself.
In comparison,
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:4, Insightful)
And please don't give me that "You don't *have* to upgrade, you can just ramp down the settings on the latest games" argument. Yes that's true. But we all know that most self-respecting gamers *hate* to do that.
After admiring the new purdy graphics on most games for about 10 minutes, I usually go back and turn the graphics way down to make sure I have a steady FPS; I get so immersed in games after about 20 minutes of gameplay I don't notice whether or not my shadows are perfectly smooth around the edges.
As long as the graphics aren't absolutely terrible to the point where it's distracting, I'll be happy playing on the lower settings.
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tbh i've been playing pc games that have been released for 1-2 years, and I;ve found that I can typically pick them up for between £5 and £15. Steam has also got in on the act by typically dropping the price of XXX 1, just before XXX 2 is released. Because I'm playing games that are slightly older than cutting edge, it means the graphics card/pc i need doesn't have to be cutting edge.
Whereas console games are £30-40 and the graphics probably aren't even as good
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Steam has also got in on the act by typically dropping the price of XXX 1, just before XXX 2 is released.
A lot of console games go in the bargain bin once the sequel comes out, but then (especially in the case of PlayStation family consoles) they kill the old version's multiplayer matchmaking servers.
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You understand that there are lots of us that like to upgrade our systems. We keep a big part of the computer industry alive.
And regarding "controllerless" gaming, I just wish the console people would instead spend more time and money making games that feel as smooth, natural and personal as Half-Life 2 or Doom. The current third-person puppet-shows that seem to dominate gaming are starting to really
Indie game selection (Score:4, Insightful)
When the Xbox 1 came along, I finally had a system that could deliver a comparable experience without having to constantly be upgrading (or worrying about the latest pain-in-the-ass DRM) to keep up. Ditto for the 360 and PS3.
You might be right about major-label games. But I don't see how the original Xbox or any PlayStation console has a selection of independent games comparable to the PC. Due to console development overhead, games from small studios always come to the PC first if they ever come to the consoles. And some kinds of games will never come to Xbox Live Indie Games on Xbox 360 due to XNA limitations [pineight.com].
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This is silly, a console costs what 200, 300 dollars now? The only upgrade a gaming PC usually needs these days is a graphics card, which wow cost what 200 to 300 for a decent card?
Graphics cards aren't a game's only system requirement. A PC from the fourth quarter of 2005, when Xbox 360 was launched, might not have the CPU and RAM to run newer games. And most titles still need separate PCs, monitors, and graphics cards for players 2 through 4 in your household, though now that HDTV has become popular, this is starting to change with the inclusion of HTPC support in the PC version of Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.
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Look at a DVD. Resolution of 720x480, but they can look nicer than nearly any videogame. I think resolution is always talked about because it's such a simple quantifiable attribute to measure.
Re:I'd rather hear about a next gen console (Score:4, Insightful)
I use to be a die-hard PC gaming fan. Then, to be honest, I grew up. Gaming to me is now about relaxing and enjoying my free time. The last thing I want to do is worry about framerates on the latest game to hit the shelves or the DRM they incorporate.
I simply want to sit down, turn it on, hit play, and be playing. Standardized hardware is awesome for this ability to always be great hardware for the software I purchased.
Now, I will admit that PC games have the ability to be _much_ prettier and I still can't stand FPS games on a console (keyboard/mouser), but for _any_ other game, the console is just a no brainer for me. It's just so easy to go to the store and pick up the latest AAA title and enjoy it.
Maybe PC gaming as a whole is better for you, and I'm happy for you. But I'd argue that your opinion is not universal fact, "It's better anyway.".
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At least with the consoles, you don't have to worry about what rootkits^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H drivers any given disc is installing. Only signed kernel patches.
Unless the signed kernel patch "fixes" a jailbreak that your favorite homebrew game depends on.
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Not to mention Madworld, Dead Space: Extraction, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Twilight Princess, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros. Brawl, Guilty Gear XX, No More Heroes...there are plenty of awesome games out there for the Wii.
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I know in my house, our Wii hardly ever gets a chance to rest. Too many great games for this system.
Any real "harcore gamer" owns a Wii and at least one other system. I have a Wii and a PS3, while I love them both if I was forced to choose between the two right now the Wii would be what I would keep. I also own what I would term a gaming PC and it can play all the latest and greatest. (I think I may have wasted my money on my last few upgrades since 90% of the time I am playing WoW... Bioshock 2 was the las
No longer Natal? (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe the project is maturing.
and to think (Score:2, Troll)
they don't even own the domain name. Yet another fumble by MS.
Title of this article is wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)
Shouldn't it be - "Project Natal Named 'Kinect'"?
I thought it was (Score:2)
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I ended up thinking about how it was going to be k'new and so kompatible. Then I realised that was K'nex and not some fad of a new controller system.
I wonder if someone will eventually decide that controllers are 100% unnecessary, thereby forcing loads of console gamers back to proper machines and better graphics on their PCs? :D
Personally, I wouldn't be showing off... (Score:2)
Personally, I wouldn't be showing off images like this one [tekgoblin.com], which clearly show either input delay or a lack of accurate mapping between human motion and character motion.
If I'm going to buy three iToys taped together, I at least expect that when I raise my arms over my head, the character on-screen will do something resembling the same.
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It's hard to know what's happening without context of seeing it live or in video, but there are a number of other possibilities too- large scale projection equipment as being used here may have more latency than your typical smaller home displays, but also we don't know how fast the guys arms were moving, if it's latency it could simply be on such a low order that a camera can catch it in a situation like that but a human isn't going to notice or care when using it in person.
It's a bit early to be making as
Kinect? (Score:3, Interesting)
Oy. (Score:2)
Natal was an interesting name. Kinect is just...it's just freakin' lame.
I personally find it funny that while the Kinect hardware involves not touching anything, it's name is, by dictionary defintion, about two things touching each other.
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You can make a 'connection' to something without touching it.
I think they were going for a cross of connect and kinetic, meaning that you connection to the machine through your own movements.
I don't like the name, but at least it makes some sense, when viewed like that.
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That's really pushing it. I see where you are coming from, and ::slaps self:: I hadn't thought of that before...but still, that's really pushing it -_-;;
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I think it's supposed to be a play off of the word kinetic, which makes 100% sense. It connects you to the console through motion. I'm not saying it's a great name or anything, but at least it makes a lot of sense...
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My running theory is that not only did they want to follow Nintendo's input device strategy, they also followed their "cool name to dumb name" strategy.
Accuracy (Score:3, Interesting)
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It builds a skeleton of your body, so, I mean, it won't be able to tell if you're holding up any fingers behind your back, but it will be able to determine motion obscured by your own arm better than a wii mote can. Try covering the sensor on a wiimote and see how that does.
Though, really, the Kinect's main feature is full body movement recording without the need for a wand, so I think you missed the point. It will likely be as good as a wand in all the fields you listed except for possibly angular rotatio
EyeToy (Score:2, Insightful)
Kinect is going to be the new way to play. It is going to be completely controller free.
So was EyeToy [wikipedia.org] 11 years ago. I'm sure other Slashdotters will/can find other earlier example.
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Like the Sega Activator [destructoid.com]?
train wreck in progress (Score:5, Insightful)
Whatever its technical merits, this just isn't going to work in the market. Game-specific console add-ons tend to work (e.g. balance boards, plastic instruments, etc.) whereas general purpose ones do not. This is because game developers are forced to either target the add-on with specific titles that take advantage of it, which relegates them to a small subset of the console's total base; or they tack-on support which rarely works well and doesn't help sell the add-on.
If Microsoft were serious, they'd release an X-Box 3 with motion-only support so developers can count on it and develop accordingly. But they're not, they won't, and it won't sell.
Microsoft has outdone themselves (Score:5, Interesting)
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/6db9eddafa5ee84849d020538f1008d5/original.gif [gawker.com]
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/07757512fe01652a77d524cf51795baf/original.gif [gawker.com]
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That's precious ... from when was this?
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Re:Booty-syncing (Score:2)
Not enough rehearsal time, apparently.
Obligatory (Score:2)
You can browse your dashboard with the wave of you hand.
These are not the droids you are looking for.
Redneck connect? (Score:2)
Since when did they start speaking redneck in Chicago?
One question: how do you turn? (Score:2)
If you turn your whole body, then you're not looking at the screen any more. If you have to make a specific gesture to turn, then we're back to artificial, rather than natural, interfaces.
The steering wheel movement (left and right hand up and down alternately) makes sense if you're piloting a vehicle, but not if you're walking through a forest.
I look forward to seeing how these issues are resolved.
Huh? (Score:2)
Isn't Kinect like Lego, only not as good?
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Natal was a name used during development to refer to a project which was not formed enough that a marketing meeting could be held to come up with a name which both sounded good to the marketers and described the product. Choosing a neutral name, such as the name of a city, during development is a good thing which keeps marketing-types out of developers' hair for as long as possible.
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"Kinect" sounds like something you do with your hot cousin.
Re:Hmm.. (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it has nothing to do with virtual reality. It has to do with reality. You physically swing your arm, not virtually. If you were to take that approach more steps, you'd eventually end up with real life. And the real life dangers too.
Yes, I look forward to virtual reality. Where I get freed from the limitations of my physiology, not subjected to them.
And no, it won't be the first time Microsoft has flopped with hand waving interfaces. Remember the three times touch screens were introduced (and re-introduced) as the best thing since sliced bread? And the gorilla arm syndrome?
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And the gorilla arm syndrome?
I'm pretty sure that occurred with the introduction of the Internet, at least in the male population.
Re:"Natal" is anatomical word for butt crack, real (Score:5, Informative)
If that were correct... (Score:3, Funny)
Your response makes me wonder what you must think "prenatal care" refers to...