New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise 176
Vigile writes "Microsoft unveiled a new Xbox 360 S console at E3 this month, and without delay the new machine has been dissected and tested. The most dramatic change is the move to a single-chip CPU/GPU hybrid processor that is apparently being built on the 45nm process technology from GlobalFoundries, AMD's spun-off production facilities. With the inclusion of the new processor, the Xbox 360 S uses much less power (about 30-40%) compared to previous generation machines, and also turns out to be much quieter as a result of a single, larger fan. This article has photographic evidence of the teardown, with comparisons between this Valhalla platform and the older Falcon system, along with videos of the reconstruction process and noise comparisons."
The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.
Shouldn't? (Score:3, Insightful)
The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.
They shouldn't have been a problem with any revision.
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Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (Score:3, Funny)
New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise
...Has Less Cooling, Still Overheats
Why is it all hardware is set by default to run just barely below the overheat point? It just makes it more likely to die, sitting at those temperatures and then you have to replace it... wait, answered my own question.
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If you make it slow, you barely have to bother cooling it.
If you make it expensive, you can invest in high-quality thermal engineering, loads of heat pipes, and whatever else is necessary.
If you make it big, you can just slap an obnoxiously gigantic heatsink and a couple of 120mm(or larger) fans on it, and it'll be fine.
If you make it loud, the magical world of 15k RPM fans is open to you(y hello thar, 1U servers...).
The fact
Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (Score:5, Funny)
Because customers like their hardware fast, cheap, small, and quiet?
Indeed, the ideal woman.
Re: New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power (Score:5, Insightful)
Less cooling my arse. It has a much larger heat-sink and a proper 120mm fan bolted right on top of it. It's got comparable cooling to my enthusiast desktop. Not to mention the simple, inescapable thermodynamic certainty that a machine that is consuming less electrical power will produce less heat.
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Not to mention the simple, inescapable thermodynamic certainty that a machine that is consuming less electrical power will produce less heat.
My wife's hairdryer consumes less electrical power than a 360 and still runs hotter. ;)
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Because when we had high power computers that continued to cool to their best effort, people complained about how noisy they were. By the time you add 3-4 cooling fans and have them running at full power, things get quite noisy. So, you have to use some sort of tradeoff. From the perspective of a console maker, why not run it at some high temperature like 85C? If you have confidence that you can keep it from getting to
Finally... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Xbox 360 we should have got 5 years ago...
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Re:Finally... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Finally... (Score:4, Funny)
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Not at all.
There wouldn't have been anywhere to plug it in.
new console also takes measures to protect itself. (Score:2)
If only they had done that the first time......
RRODs eliminated: we removed the red LEDs! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm impressed with the clever solution they had to this: replace the red LEDs with green ones. Guaranteed, no more red ring of death. Just don't ask about the green ring of death [google.com].
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Nah, they just made the existing green LEDs multipurpose. It's much more cost effective to include just four green LEDs than four green and four red, after all! I mean, that might shave $0.04 off the unit cost!
(Disclaimer: I have no idea how much LEDs cost. Googling for it brings back prices on LED screens and full-on LED replac
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Maybe they do. I'd think single color ones are cheaper, though.
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Of course the damn thing could just turn itself off when it gets too hot.
Great, lower the price of hard drives (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm 2 years running into my 20 gig Xbox 360 unit. I really wish Microsoft would reduce the hard drive add-on prices to more realistic levels. The casing around the HD can't cost THAT much. It would almost be better to just buy the new slim unit(that has over 10 times the hard drive space I have) than to buy the 250 gig drive alone.
I could buy a 1 terabyte drive for my system for less than they charge for a 120 gig unit.
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Then do it. It's not like there's some magical proprietary hard drive connectors in there; the only thing you have to do is flash the hard drive's firmware with one the Xbox recognizes.
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I could buy a 1 terabyte drive for my system for less than they charge for a 120 gig unit.
Get an external USB one and plug it in, then. Some time ago a dashboard update added the ability to use arbitrary USB storage devices on the Xbox 360.
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http://www.xboxpotato.com/2010/03/usb-flash-drive-support-coming/ [xboxpotato.com]
Microsoft has announced that a new system update will be released over Xbox Live on April 6th that will allow support for USB flash drives as a storage option for Xbox 360 content. This means 360 owners can use any USB flash drive over 1GB (up to 16GB) in size to back up profiles, saves, demos, etc.
Yes, that mean that you can only use 16 GB of an USB disk. What, did you think MS were growing soft on their old days?
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:5, Informative)
It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating, which we all learned not to do at the start of this console generation.
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:5, Funny)
Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.
Microsoft has upped their standards. Up yours!
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I really wonder about this, The sole reason everyone was moving their 360 was because of the gravity orientation on the 'Ring of light' anyway, has anyone ever tried rotating a ps1/ps2/saturn/dreamcast/gamecube/xbox in the same way?
i'd say the disc scratching is a non-issue, sure some pads would be nice, but any carefull gamer wouldnt move a running console around anyway..
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:5, Interesting)
I have around 170 retail XBox 360 games, I've had 4 XBox's due to 3 RROD failures in the early years. I've had my dog knock my console over whilst playing once or twice and have knocked it over myself once and since moved it and placed it horizontally.
Through all this I've yet to have a single disc scratch. I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOjzuJByXg [youtube.com]
I also suspect that it's something that effects many DVD drives in general as there's nothing specific about the XBox 360's, only most people don't tend to give their DVD player or PC an abrubpt shake.
Just as most people have learnt that putting a device like a mobile phone or an iPod in your pocket along with your keys (the screen will get scratched) is a bad idea, I think this is probably one of those problems that just requires a bit of common sense to solve.
Certainly with all the general wear and tear my 4 XBoxs have faced and the amount of discs that have been through them, the amount of usage they've had, although the RROD has been a frustrating problem until the latest one which seems fine now at around 2 years old, disc scratching has been an absolute non-issue.
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I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:
I suspect it is simply is the direction in which you move it. One way will tilt your disc away from what scratch it, the other will move it right into it.
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My 3 year old nokia however, would disagree (so the mobile phone thing is valid)
Sure the ipod screen might be hard enough, but i just dont feel like risking it...
as for the back side, OMFG, within a week my ipod touch went from mirror finish to sanded glass... it looks awefull (and i bet its just a ploy to sell as much pouches/purses/sleeves as they can to the "oh shiney" crowd)
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You realise iPod nanos specifically were notorious for screen scratches, so much so that Apple owned up to it and had to pay out a $22.5million settlement? -
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html [cnet.com]
Sure not all device screens scratch easily, but the problem is you don't know which ones do until it's too late and you've scratched it, and as some quite blatantly do (you're welcome to do more Google searches yourself to find plenty of evidence to that effect) you've got to be quite stupid to risk it.
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has anyone ever tried rotating a ps1/ps2/saturn/dreamcast/gamecube/xbox in the same way?
The early generation PlayStation1 had an overheating issue with the GPU, the "recommend" workaround was turning the whole console upside down. Yet I never heard of a scratching issue on that machine. For the Playstation3 one can find this video [youtube.com], no scratching and the console is handled pretty brutally. And there is also this video [youtube.com] showing a Xbox360 with rubber pads installed, no scratching after the mod.
The simple fact is that you can find dozens of videos of Xbox360 destroying discs on Youtube, but finding
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:5, Insightful)
Console in a minivan (Score:4, Insightful)
the XBox360 was not designed as a portable platform
A lot of platforms that aren't ostensibly portable get used as such. Case in point: a game console run off an inverter in a minivan or RV for 3-hour road trips. These subject a machine to whatever road vibration the suspension doesn't absorb.
Re:Console in a minivan (Score:4, Insightful)
That doesn't really negate his point. You might as well get annoyed at toaster manufacturers for not making bath-friendly models.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone now pastes a link to a bath-friendly toaster, but the point is still that if you want to be gaming on the move, you buy a system that is designed to be portable!
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I wouldn't be surprised if someone now pastes a link to a bath-friendly toaster
How about a Bath-friendly sandwich toaster?
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I don't think anyone cares if you use a device outside of it's designed uses, but you certainly can't come crying back to the manufacturer when it doesn't work 100% optimally out of spec.
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If you design a console to sit vertically, it ought to be able to withstand being toppled.
Ummmmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Since when is moving a unit while a disc is spinning a good idea? I've always assumed such a thing isn't a good plan. At the speeds those discs spin, there is going to be a non-trivial amount of gyroscopic force. Given that with normal DVD drives like you find in desktop computers and DVD players and the 360 the disc just floats on the spindle, movement wouldn't be good.
Now something like a laptop drive is more designed for that sort of thing, it grips the disc directly and has less room for it to move arou
I am not buying an XBox until... (Score:2)
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What do you mean? I want to play my Xbox360 Slim while I'm jogging on my SlimMaster 3000!
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The earlier models (at least mine did, spring 06) scratched discs even when stationary.
Then again, my Xbox went wrong at about any component, including a broken harddisk (it clicks when you insert it, xbox refuses to boot when its inserted with an e68, now using a 16GB flash drive as harddisk), a red ring of death that appeared about 3 years ago, and went away about three months later, and it scratched my Halo 3 disk for no obvious reason at all (standing vertically on a shock-free cabinet). Also produces g
Re:Scratches disc and improved dpads (Score:4, Funny)
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It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating
It also has a tendency to scratch discs without moving the console. It usually happens when the dvd drive is starting to fail (pretty common). I've lost a game to this problem, and I know many other that have as well.
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a) That was a demo model, not a production model.
I doubt it. The Xbox360 Slim was on sale just days later. It would be pretty retard to use a prototype instead of finished hardware for presentation when the final hardware is ready.
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).
c) Why would you need to move your console while it's running anyway?
It is not about need, it
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Good gravy man, are we talking about *tigers* bumping into the console or do you have it resting on some kind of frictionless surface?
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b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).
Actually, there's a better reason to not do anything. The model of drive they use is significantly faster to read data than other more stable models. And since the specs of the system can't change (including data read times for games), then if all other drives are slower, then it can't be changed.
While it still sucks that you can scratch a disc, what i'd prefer to see is an explicit "do you want to copy this to the hard drive" the first time a disc goes in rather than having it hidden away in a menu that so
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b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1.
Really? I was unaware that a study was conducted on the PS2 and Wii (the only disc-based consoles that I am aware of where vertical* orientation was not only possible, it was practically encouraged) that showed that bumping them or moving them around was less fatal to discs than doing the same with a 360.
*Limited to vertical oriented consoles since I've only heard of discs getting scratched when the 360 was oriented vertically.
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If you lift a console up whilst a disc is spinning inside it then no-one is at fault other than the person who lifted it.
Name another console that scratches discs . If its so common sense and totally to be expected that discs get scratched that shouldn't be to hard, right?
No discs are getting scratched from people bumping their console slightly either.
And your argument is based on what data? Some earlier Xbox360 models scratched discs even when the console was not moved at all, so I wouldn't exactly trust that a disc-scratching Slim would not scratch discs on minor bumps.
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Re:AdDot (Score:5, Interesting)
a teardown to PCB level of a new large revision of a gaming device isnt news for nerds?
Sure /. could have given it a better title, but TFA is actually quite interesting
As for the slim machine, if i didnt already have two 360's, i might consider getting this, less noise and all, but as it is, i have enough gaming hardware.
And still slightly annoyed by the fact that this probably means no new xbox for two more years or so..
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I've had 6 die and currently have 2, but I'm seriously thinking of upgrading just so it doesn't sound like a jet engine and die in a year.
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I had one of my two 360s (a first version one) die on me, but MS replaced it free of charge, so for now i'm good.
If either of my machines die, i'll consider replacing it with a slim (and selling the old replacement or something..)
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Well, for one, there are the exclusive titles. For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it. And I've also personally found Forza to be another good exclusive. That's basically what sells me on a console or not, is there enough exclusives to justify it. Everyone is going to hav
Re:AdDot (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the Only reason I bought a 360. I had a PS3 already, but I wanted to get some gaming done with my local friends. All the folks with whom I played PC games had moved 2 time zones away and it was hard to schedule gaming time. All the local people had 360s and were playing Halo 3 and Gears of War. Before that I never would have considered playing an FPS on a console.
It turns out I have a lot of fun with the 360 and play on it by myself as much as I do on the PS3. I've learned not to be a snob when it comes to consoles because the only person losing out would be me.
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This is why I tend to play online FPS games with people from a specific community rather than limiting it to just people I know in real life.
Specifically, I play Team Fortress 2 with people from the OCReMix [ocremix.org] community. OCR has two TF2 servers [ocrtf2.com]: blu.ocrtf2.com and red.ocrtf2.com, named after the two teams in TF2.
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I'm aware of all those reasons, but none of them are enough to sell me on the idea. If I wanted a nice social experience, I'd stick with Windows. Pretty much everyone has a Windows PC. Likewise a lot of "XBox only" titles have ended up coming out for Windows too.. and at least if you do it that way you get to choose the quality of your hardware.
It's good that they've finally sorted out the 360 issues, but I just don't really trust MS to do a good job of anything. They do have the odd decent product around (
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Disclaimer: I own gaming consoles from many different companies (Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, etc), and although I use Windows 7 on my gaming rig, I have Ubuntu running on everything else.
but after Vista and the 360 RRoD problems, they've gone back to being a joke in my eyes
That's a shame. Windows 7 and everything from the Falcon revision or later for the 360 have been solid, well-made products. For me, the 360 was worth it for a few reasons:
1. Exclusives. There are some Xbox Live Arcade exclusives ('Splosion Man, Trials HD, and Shadow Complex alone are almost worth the price o
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1) I remember reading about Fable or Fable II a few years ago and thought it sounded good. Didn't realise it was XBox exclusive though.
2) I've grown up with PS controllers so I'm obviously biased that way, but I've never enjoyed stuff like the N64 and Xbox controller (they're both very similar IMO). I've never had any issues with the playstation controllers (apart from once getting blisters while playing Dynasty Warriors!), always found them to be nice and comfortable even when playing for over 13 hours str
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1) I remember reading about Fable or Fable II a few years ago and thought it sounded good. Didn't realise it was XBox exclusive though.
Fable I eventually made it to the PC. There are rumblings that Fable II is on its way to the PC as well, although nothing official has been announced. For now, Fable II remains a 360 exclusive.
2) I've grown up with PS controllers so I'm obviously biased that way, but I've never enjoyed stuff like the N64 and Xbox controller (they're both very similar IMO). I've never had any issues with the playstation controllers (apart from once getting blisters while playing Dynasty Warriors!), always found them to be nice and comfortable even when playing for over 13 hours straight (Uncharted 2).
I grew up with Commmodore 64 keyboards and Atari/NES controllers...so yeah :-)
I don't really see how an N64 controller and a Xbox controller are similar...they're about as similar as a an Atari controller and this monstrosity [steelbattalion.org].
3. Not a great excuse, as you say PCs have been able to keep cool for much longer.
I said nothing of cooling or hardware...I said complexity, in reference to overall game des
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I suppose I meant that as far as consoles were concerned I grew up with the PSX. We weren't allowed a console before that (since they were games only devices and our dad liked us to have stuff that was at least slightly educational). So I mostly grew up with Amigas.. now I think about it I used to use a Mega Drive controller in my Amiga. Before that we had a Commodore 128 as well with a little joystick.
I guess I think of the N64 and Xbox controllers as bad because of their layout of the analog sticks. I act
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I suppose I meant that as far as consoles were concerned I grew up with the PSX. We weren't allowed a console before that (since they were games only devices and our dad liked us to have stuff that was at least slightly educational). So I mostly grew up with Amigas.. now I think about it I used to use a Mega Drive controller in my Amiga. Before that we had a Commodore 128 as well with a little joystick.
My parents thought of any video game as a learning tool, insofar as hand-eye coordination, problem solving, and quick thinking were concerned. We already loved playing outside and being physically active, so they saw no reason we shouldn't flex our minds as well.
I guess I think of the N64 and Xbox controllers as bad because of their layout of the analog sticks. I actually thought the Xbox one had a centrally mounted analog stick as well until I looked it up just now (despite using one a couple of times).
Nope, they're extremely different:-) On top of that, the Xbox 360 controller is far superior to the original Xbox controller in pretty much every way (except that near-useless D-pad. Grr.)
Oh yeah I definitely value gameplay above graphics, for example I recently got 3D Dot Game Heroes which purposefully emulates the oldskool 2D RPG style (but in 3D), I just also like the wow factor I get when diving out of a plane in Just Cause 2 and looking at the island below me - it really does look amazingly real.
OOOOO I've been wanting to pick up 3D Dot Game Heroes, it
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For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it.
Yep. That's one reason I didn't buy a 360.
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Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?
"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for."
— Bob Marley
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And Microsoft are the ones worth suffering for? Methinks the world has developed a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome..
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That's actually half-accurate. Microsoft was first to market with a lot of the techniques that will lock users into a platform. Namely, XBox Live. You can put up with a lot, as long as it's more of a hassle to go somewhere else.
Re:AdDot (Score:5, Interesting)
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I've had mine for over four years and about a month and a half ago I got the dreaded RROD. The only thing I've noticed I do differently as compared to friends is I never had it sit vertically. It was always sitting flat.
A friend of mine is on his twentieth xbox. All RROD. Of course, he plays it a hell of a lot more than I do, but still... that's getting ridiculous.
Re:AdDot (Score:5, Insightful)
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Because it's worth the hassle. XBox Live is so far above the network gaming offerings from the PS3, Wii, and PC (yes, and PC) that it isn't even funny. My friends and family love the party feature, even spread out over some states we can all get together and have a fun time o' gaming that isn't restricted to one game. You can even use the feature to watch movies together, but we've never used that.
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I'm surprised its taken them so long to move from 65nm to 45nm since even ARM chips are doing 45nm now and Intel is
Re:AdDot (Score:4, Informative)
I can understand where he's coming from (Score:2)
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Not sure if this helps, but apparently the 360 does play MA2:lone wolf, which in the end is just MA with some added features (hi-jacking and such)
If you love MA, just hit up your local gamestore/ebay for a used copy of MA2, it'll also give you a new single player campaign
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As much as they'd like to I don't think they can afford to force everyone to upgrade to the newest model to play games, and convincing developers to make two different versions (one for the original 360 and one for the new S console) seems unlikely. Instead this seems to be a similar case as to what Sony did with the PS2.
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Sony did this with every console they made, not just the PS2. The latest was the Slim version of the PS3 which was released last year.
But does it run XNA Creators Club? (Score:2)
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No, of course they didn't, that'd be stupid when it's the centrepiece of their current XNA strategy.
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If by strategy you mean "trying to get tax discounts in the EU and failing," then yes.
Otherwise, the center of PS3 strategy has been primarily that it's a Blu-Ray player in addition to a gaming system.
To teach people how to code for Cell (Score:5, Informative)
If by strategy you mean "trying to get tax discounts in the EU and failing," then yes.
You're confusing Other OS on the PS3 with Basic on the PS2. As I understand it, Other OS was there to get developers familiar with the Cell architecture, which Sony planned to use in all sorts of consumer electronics devices. Cell's seven integrated DSPs were supposed to be the future of signal processing until someone figured out how to "abuse" the GPU to act as a generic DSP [wikipedia.org]. This led to CUDA and eventually OpenCL, the decline of Cell, and no more need for Other OS.
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No it wasn't, it was temporarily part of their tax dodge strategy and that's it.
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What does that have to do with anything? They also removed the serial and parallel ports in the PS One, the hdd expansion compartment in the Slim PS2, and the UMD drive in the PSP Go. Microsoft does this too. The new 360 has a different hdd compartment that it's incompatible with the older models, and they removed the memory card slot. But all of this is off-topic.
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They also removed [...] the UMD drive in the PSP Go.
Bad example. Sony and Microsoft discontinued the fat PS2, fat PS3, and fat Xbox 360 in favor of the slim models. I don't see any plans to discontinue the PSP-3000 in favor of the PSP Go.
I guess my real question is this: For what platform should an indie developer make a local-multiplayer video game? It appears the consensus among Slashdot users is XNA, but that becomes difficult if XNA Creators Club doesn't work on any Xbox 360 unit with an unexpired warranty.
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Well IMO it depends on what you mean by indie. If it's one or two people, the the iPhone or Android or similar is the way to go. If it's a small team of 10 or less people then you should form a small company and get in contact with Sony or Nintendo. There are a lot of indie games on the PSN and WiiWare. I don't have an Xbox so I don't know if it's the same with Microsoft.
That is of course assuming you don't want to make a PC game for whatever reason.
XNA vs. HTPC gaming (Score:2)
For what platform should an indie developer make a local-multiplayer video game?
Phone
Perhaps I wasn't clear. By "local multiplayer" I was referring to a scenario like fighting games, Bomberman series, and Mario Party series, which let multiple players connect gamepads to a single machine displaying a single view of all characters on a single TV-size monitor. Handhelds require one machine for each player, as do most native PC games, which assume a LAN or Internet play environment. A machine for each player is ideal for FPS and RTS but not for, say, fighting games.
That is of course assuming you don't want to make a PC game for whatever reason.
A PC with a suitably large m
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As for CPU/GPU, though, there is just no way that they would play the platform fragmentation game without very go
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Yah well, they may call the newer XBox 360's -' XBox 360's' but they aren't the same and the games being made now aren't the same either - I have an older XBox 360 and it flat out won't play the newer games.
Umm... what? I would really like to know what games your XBox 360 won't play, because I have an original Arcade (replacement for the Core system) as well as a newer but still discontinued Pro (just 2 years old) and both of them play every game I've tried recently without issue. Not to flame you or anything, but you really should cite not only what model/revision of 360 you have as well as what games it will not play, and what it does instead of playing them.
~jaraxle
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Citation Needed (mod troll) (Score:3, Informative)
I've seen absolutely no indication whatsoever of anything that backs up your claims (in fact, the game you mention came out before the 360 S, and the Wikipedia article on the topic doesn't contain any instances of the word "Slim"). Older revisions of the 360 are more prone to overheating, don't have built-in WiFi, and may have different ports - for example, the oldest models lack an HDMI port - but their CPUs and GPUs execute the same code at the same speed, they have the same amount of RAM, and they run th
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Perhaps you've been telling everybody you had an XBox 360, when in fact you only have the original XBox. That was an entirely different system.
Bill