Sony Gets Nasty With PSBreak Buyers 246
YokimaSun writes "The war between hackers and Sony over the PlayStation 3 has now taken an even more sinister turn, with Sony going after not just shops but actual buyers of the PSBreak dongle, threatening them with fines of many thousands of Euros and forcing them to sign cease-and-desist letters. It seems Sony will use any means necessary to thwart both homebrew and piracy on the PS3."
Missing from the summary (Score:5, Informative)
And what if they refuse? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are Sony seriously going to sue people for not handing over their legal property to Sony?
What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?
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Damn, now I want a PS3 just so I can break it, load on another OS and share mp3s of Sony artists on a hacked restaurant connection nearby.
I won't cease or desist till Sony lies in ashes.
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Uh... They apparently are, didn't you read the summary?
Re:And what if they refuse? (Score:4, Funny)
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That clearly depends on how the device stands legal in a given country. The DMCA and it's offspring around the world has very intended consequences. Strange coming from a country where it's fine to have firearms designed to kill, yet we mustn't have a device that *may* allow copying entertainment media.
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Viol8, I'd like you to meet Sony. Obviously you two have never met before, so I'll just let you talk.
Re:And what if they refuse? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?
As far as they want; XCP showed them that. Root and vandalise people's computers (including mine) and have no repercussions whatever -- nobody went to prison, even jail, they not only didn't go bankrupt it didn't affect sales at all. I can't for the life of me figure out why ANYBODY, especially nerds, would buy computer equipment from a company with a history of rooting their own paying customers' computers.
If there is anybody who still buys stuff from Sony, please tell me how you can trust them any farther than you can throw a car?
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Except I don't think Apple and Microsoft have gone that far yet. Apple and Microsoft have done lots of evil things, but so far, they haven't gone after jailbreakers (Apple hasn't even done anything with the iPhone-dev team), and neither has Microsoft gone after Xbox360 modders (to play pirated games - that's all you can do with the mods). Both do play cat-and-mouse games between modders and jailbreakers, but that's just p
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Nice bit of shaming language you did there, unfortunately we're wise to that kind of thing now....
The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics:
Charge of Unattractiveness (Code Tan) – The Ugly Tan Charge
Discussion: The target is accused of having no romantic potential as far as women are concerned. Examples:
* “I bet you are fat and ugly.”
* “You can’t get laid!”
* “Creep!”
* “Loser!”
* “Have you thought about the problem being you?”
Response: This is another example of “circumstantial ad hominem.” The target’s romantic potential ultimately does not reflect on the merit of his arguments.
No the "lady" in question wasn't talking about the guy, she was admitting she's a typical bitch
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Sign zzzze paperzzzz or elttttttzzzz.
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Ooo, forbidden hardware. I sort of want one now.
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Well, I'm not buying one (Score:4, Interesting)
A PS3, I mean.
It's not really a principled stand, but it could become one.
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I'm unsure how to feel about this. I think Sony are going about it the wrong way. If they have security holes in the system they should patch them up, and if the holes are in the hardware then I suppose they should just make sure to fix them up in the PS4. I am however happy for them to remove as much possibility as possible that there will be people cheating on online games. That's one of the few real benefits over playing on my PS3 as opposed to PC gaming online.
Re:Well, I'm not buying one (Score:5, Insightful)
Other OS was shut down (Score:4, Informative)
What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems.
It did, until the slim PS3 came out and Sony left out the Other OS drivers to cut cost. Then the first hints of cracks came out with the stated goal of reenabling Other OS on the slim PS3, and Sony pushed out PS3 system software 3.21 to shut them down on the original PS3. Then the cat and mouse game started in earnest.
I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers.
I explained the rationale against homebrew in another comment [slashdot.org].
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They didn't leave Other OS out to cut the cost, as Linux has been proven to run on the Slim pretty much exactly the same way as it does on older consoles. It was deliberately disabled because they felt like it; there is no good technical reason.
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I heard on somewhat good authority that it was disabled due to pressure from companies wanting to sell emulation packs on the PSN store. The Linux support made this business model nonviable because MAME and other emulators had already been ported to the open source Linux platform on the system. Sony were only bowing to pressure from their corporate peers.
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That certainly makes Sony sound like an innocent victim or at worst a hapless bystander, which is laughable. Seems more likely some companies approached Sony about their ideas to sell emulated games on the PS3, and pointed out that the Other OS feature significantly reduces the sales potential of emulated games. "Don't worry," Sony said, "We'll take care of it." After doing the math and figuring up how much more they'd make in license fees, of course.
Re:Other OS was shut down (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes.
Why has everyone IGNORED the glaring fact in the room.
None of this crap was going on with any strength until sony became idiots and shut down the OtherOS function.
It's their fault. They caused it, and they will lose.
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Actually, Geohot caused it, Sony was just being paranoid and overestimated his abilities.
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Bullshit. Geohot's hack required inserting a fucking wire into the console after taking it half apart, then slamming a switch like mad to cause the console to glitch.
This is ENTIRELY $ony's fault for being a bunch of paranoid-delusional morons. I wonder if the people responsible for this debacle are the same morons $ony poached from Nintendo who were responsible for the mind-bogglingly stupid design idiocy of cartridges on the N64 and mini-dvds on the Gamecube.
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The USB system that they're using to do this hack probably won't be that different from the PS4's USB setup, and whether the rest is similar or not, they can still learn from past mistakes. They probably shouldn't be allowed to go after people doing hardware mods, but if it's within their legal rights to do so then I won't complain about their actions yet, though I will complain about the laws allowing them to do so..
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Many of us envy those of you who live in First World countries.
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Don't reward those assholes by paying for one of their products.
If you really want to annoy them, do something to publicise the existence, and improve the distribution of things like PSBreak. Having something like it fully documented so that anybody can assemble it from components and then posted everywhere would annoy Sony quite a bit more than a couple of photos on a website.
Re:Well, I'm not buying one (Score:4, Informative)
That should do it right there.
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The PSGroove people are facing lawsuits over PSGroove, the open-source Jailbreak. Though, even that's been ported to iPhone-Linux, A
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Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Actually, now that there's a PSBreak, I might finally be convinced to buy my first PS3.
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I won't buy anything from Sony, and principles have nothing to do with it. They rooted and vandalized my computer, I would be insane to trust them again. It's not a boycott, it's a matter of wanting to own what I pay for. It's a matter of not letting thieves and vandals in my house.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap (Score:3, Funny)
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy? What most lack happen, someone wanting to sue humanity to breathe without a contract for this?
Kill-A-Client, more effective (Score:2)
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy?
Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony, and vote with your money. That's one reason why I have a Philips TV, stereo, and DVD recorder in the room where I'm typing this.
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I've been boycotting Sony since SOE (their MMO publisher) destroyed Star Wars Galaxies in a sleazy bait and switch (announced the day after they charged us for an expansion half of which was being rendered useless two weeks later). I am speaking of course about the NGE.
I am in a position of influence in electronics pur
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But if you breath on it and it goes in the cooling intake then couldn't you claim that they hadn't licensed your breath to be used as cooling in their machine? See how they like that frivolous law suit!
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"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.
Useless (Score:5, Insightful)
How do they expect this to work?
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom" and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony cannot be stopped.
Yes, it is a device to circumvent copy protection but far from all European countries have laws banning such devices, and once they're in a European country the device can be moved freely to other countries.
I would buy such a device, mostly just to spite Sony and their megalomania.
Trademarked names (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom"
And in countries with sane trademark law, nominative use to specify compatible products made by other companies is not an infringement: "FREEDOM service tool by TropeCo, for use with PLAYSTATION 3 console by Sony".
and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony
Sony can claim non-literal copying. But even in the U.S., whose Digital Millennium Copyright Act is widely thought on Slashdot to be stricter than its European counterparts, copying small pieces of code solely for interoperability has been shown not to infringe. Sega v. Accolade; Lexmark v. Static
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Bubble (Score:4, Interesting)
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Lawyers who practice this sort of "law" are not productive members of society but are parasites. There will be tort reform eventually. Or the lawyer class (which dominates Congress, btw) will come face to face with the pitchfork and torch class. There are so many opportunities that have
Is Litigation all Sony Has? (Score:5, Insightful)
If Sony didn't plan for this in the beginning, then I understand why they have resorted to this as a last gasp. That means there was a major hole in their business plan.
Sony once held the mindshare Apple has now. For me, so many Sony items have had problems, that they are off my radar.
The world moves on and a major player must move ahead of it, or at least with it or it dies. I just don't get the concept of a company suing the retail consumers of its hardware.
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The answer to your question is yes. Litigation is all Sony has. You don't sue your customers unless you otherwise lack a viable business model. Sony is the SCO of computer gaming. The same is clearly true of Blizzard today. [slashdot.org] People don't want to play their game the way they want it played, and they are willing to shit on them to try to stop them. This is what happens when the hands and the brain are disconnected.
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You don't sue your customers unless you otherwise lack a viable business model. [..] The same is clearly true of Blizzard today.
You'd have a point if Blizzard wasn't making truck loads of money.
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You'd have a point if Blizzard wasn't making truck loads of money.
... right this second? Sure.
In another couple months, when they've disconnected and shut down all their users for cheating in single-player mode? Hmm... Might not be such a good idea for them to have all this negative publicity at the same time as they're losing players in droves over the Cataclysm gameplay changes.
To get back on topic, I don't own a PS3, but if I did, I would have sued Sony for false advertisement and fraud when they removed the ability to run OtherOS on it (it was an advertised feature, t
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In another couple months, when they've disconnected and shut down all their users for cheating in single-player mode?
I bet you Blizzard will be doing just fine.
To get back on topic, I don't own a PS3, but if I did, I would have sued Sony for false advertisement and fraud when they removed the ability to run OtherOS on it
People have sued Sony over that. There's a class action lawsuit going on as well as individual lawsuits.
Sony simply hasn't given me any reason to trust them at all, while showing me constantly that I shouldn't trust them.
I respect your decision. Personally, I bought a PS3 because I wanted a next-gen gaming console and there aren't very many choices. Even Nintendo is aggressive with anti-piracy measures.
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Yesterday's interview with John Sculley compared Sony with Apple, and I think was quite appropriate here.
Apple think about the experience as a whole and work their way down to the components that are necessary to deliver that experience. Sony start with getting the components and build that up to an experience.
Which worked fine back when we were using analogue or mostly-analogue products for home entertainment. I include CD players in this list because 99 times out of 100, they go from digital to analogue
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You cheat, you get punched in the face (Score:2)
what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is a multiplayer component to consider.
So you've connected four SIXAXIS or Dual Shock 3 controllers to your PS3, and you've invited friends over. If you turn on a cheat that boosts all players, then everyone cheats with you. (Compare the built-in cheats in Goldeneye 007 for Nintendo 64.) If you turn on a cheat that helps you over the other players, you get punched in the face.
I don't know if any of these hacks can or are being used in any online components of any games
Would it be cheating to add a custom map to all players' machines and then play on that map?
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He was obviously talking about online play. And yes it could be cheating in some games where you earn ranks or whatever by playing. If you make a custom map for earning them easily that's cheating. Just look at what happens with Team Fortress 2 on the PC with all the leveling maps out there.
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He was obviously talking about online play.
In the case of online play, where you have a separate machine for each player, what advantage does a PS3 have over a PC?
People still buy shit from Sony? (Score:5, Interesting)
Really? After so many years of producing shit that they can't even sell TV's (something Sony used to be famous for making the best) under their own name anymore, why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
The premise of threatening OWNERS of a piece of hardware for doing with that hardware whatever they please, which they have the absolute right to do (including burning it or running over it with the car) is ridiculous. And if someone is finally going to be stupid enough to sue a customer over violating a shrinkwrap, unilateral, "we reserve the right to change anything at any time at our SOLE discretion" EULA, please, PLEASE for the love of God let it be a company as stupid, corrupt and intellectually bankrupt as Sony.
Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...
The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up (Score:2)
why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
Sony owns RCA Records, the record label that published a song by Rick Astley [wikipedia.org]. Sony also makes movies, including the Spider-Man movies [wikipedia.org]. (And before you object that these are separate divisions, the division that makes TV sets is likewise separate from the Computer Entertainment division that makes PlayStation products.)
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I've never seen the Spiderman movies (superhero turned into love story doesn't appeal to me at all), and I don't own very much music made after 1993, as prett
Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up (Score:4, Informative)
So?
You asked why are people still buying from Sony and he gave you a few reasons. They make popular movies, music and games. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.
Re:People still buy shit from Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do I buy SONY?
Because nobody makes a better Professional HD camcorder.
Because nobody makes a better Windows Video editing platform outside of AVID. (No Adobe's products are not pro level)
Because nobody makes a LIVE video production suite that is as capable...
Because nobody makes a digital Video recording format that is as good as AVCHD or XDCAM.
Because nobody makes a better digital video stream processor like Sony's.
Because nobody makes a pocked field editing system like the PDWHR1.. I can have only 2 guys in the field to shoot and edit a small event and upload the thing before they pack up the car and leave, the thing will DIRECT SFTP the files to the server as they drive down the road.
That's why. SONY OWNS the commercial production video market hands down. Because the other choices are mediocre or half assed with bad work-flows. Panasonic and JVC utterly suck in workflow.
Re:People still buy shit from Sony? (Score:4, Funny)
This isn't apples and oranges, this is 12w food blender electric motor and Ferarri Type 056 2.4L V8 petrol engine.
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They also own YOU, and don't have any qualms about taking you to court to prove it.
You're obviously ok with that, and that's your choice to make. The rest of us think it's stupid to respond to someone spitting in your face by saying "Thank you, please keep making the gear that my livelihood depends on."
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Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...
Sony doesn't mind if you open up your PS3 and start soldering bits yourself. Sony is actively trying to stop the distribution of these dongles. It sounds like a petty distinction, but it is an important one. Ford wouldn't have sued you for modifying the rims. He would have sued you for purchasing third party rims whose sole reason for existence is modifying one of his cars.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that Sony isn't pursuing the physical modifications themselves as much as they are pur
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Ford wouldn't have sued you for modifying the rims. He would have sued you for purchasing third party rims whose sole reason for existence is modifying one of his cars.
Logic and reality failure.
Car manufacturers don't sue you for purchasing aftermarket modifications, nor do they sue the parts suppliers for those modifications. They may not honor your warranty if you modify your car with aftermarket parts, and your insurance company won't insure aftermarket modifications, but they don't sue you for doing silly things to your car.
Now, if you were leasing the car, I could see an issue... but this is a purchased product.
Similarly, when you run down to the store and purchase a
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Erm.... actually, I think they could probably do this in the US as well.
Four letters for you: DMCA.
What did they expect? (Score:2, Insightful)
When Sony removed the "Other OS" option from the PS3 they locked people out of a legitimate and relatively safe homebrew environment. Somewhere that people could play with the device without voiding their warranty. It was an option that really "sold" the device to many people who now own one.
While someone would have eventually jail-broken the device, I doubt it would be as widely used as these dongles are; if Sony had (a) left the "Other OS" option in, and (b) possibly added said-option to the "slim" PS3
I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3 (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...
Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30, so i bought a dongle which i intend to use to repair the otherwise broken system:
http://www.ps3hax.net/2010/10/asbestos-running-linux-as-gameos/ [ps3hax.net]
All i'm doing, is fixing advertised functionality which was present in the ps3 when i bought it.
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Show me an actual SCEfoo paid advertisement featuring OtherOS.....you can't. While the feature got mentioned in a few interviews with tech journalists and got mentioned on sites like Slashdot and Joystiq it was never "advertised".
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I bought my PS3 partly because I could run Linux on it. However, it doesn't matter anymore, I kept my Other OS and I'm not buying anything else from Sony.
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Guess that make my decision easier (Score:2, Informative)
Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3 for non gameing / PS3 media use?
Will sony try to say you are braking the EULA by not installing the update that removers other os?
Sony == POS consumer hardware (Score:2)
Buying one of these devices is stupid (Score:2)
Buying one of these devices is stupid when there are ways to accomplish exactly the same thing from any number of devices that Sony can't ban, restrict or block including at least one model of calculator.
Like if this stuff would work in EU (Score:2)
This is EU, people are not afraid of these stupid actions in here. Nobody goes bankrupt for having to go to trial to defend themselves in here. So if they want to sue, let them sue. In the end most of the courts in here will force Sony to pay the court and representation fees to the persons they are suing when they lose.
Last round for Sony (Score:2)
I only bought a PS3 so that I would not have to run games on Windows. There have been many issues, including three returns for repair of defective components, two just out of warranty. The operating system is limited and buggy. The browser sucks beyond belief. Sony has been horrible to deal with at every step. PS3 hardware now falls well behind budget PC hardware. After this PS3 it is back to PC gaming for me, and exclusively on Linux. By the time this PS3 is ready for the scrapheap there will be ple
Yet another reason to boycott ALL Sony products (Score:2)
Ever since that rootkit crap Sony pulled some years ago I will not buy any Sony products. Here's yet another example of essentially illegal activity on their part. We have options to buy non-Sony products for most of the electronics and optical computer drives we use so join the boycott.
The anti-homebrew stance explained (Score:5, Interesting)
Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible?
So that they can squeeze more money out of developers. If homebrew were easy, or even as easy as it is on iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad, major labels would develop and sell their games through the homebrew path to market to cut overhead.
HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying?
Allowing homebrew will inevitably result in media copying. This could be through cloning of patented games (such as Dance Dance Revolution), through cloning of games on whose rules the developer makes a flimsy copyright claim (such as Tetris), or through infringing ROM images that run on homebrew emulators.
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The problem is less homebrew and more that the ways homebrew tends to be done opens the system up to cheating.
They don't care about cheating in a single-player game, but rampant cheating in online games will drive gamers to another platform.
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The problem is less homebrew and more that the ways homebrew tends to be done opens the system up to cheating.
Then why did prior consoles without thorough online support have either no or quickly discontinued (Net Yaroze, PS2 Linux) official homebrew?
They don't care about cheating in a single-player game
Yes they do. It screws up the trophy system. Blizzard is suing [slashdot.org].
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I'm all for using my products as I see fit, but there's a dark side to the PSBreak for me, and that's cheating on online games. I don't really care about the piracy or Sony's bottom line. But I do know back in the dark ages of online play when people got aimbots in Quake3, online play really started to suck, and I lost interest in the game really quickly. That undermining of the level playing field that makes online play fun is a bigger threat to Sony's bottom line than piracy or people doing protein fol
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Has Sony ever confirmed that they lose money on the console and hope to get it back from games?
Sony Music and Sony Pictures (Score:2)
I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product
I find that highly unlikely. Search your CD collection for Columbia Records or Epic Records [wikipedia.org], then search your VHS and/or DVD collection for Columbia Pictures or TriStar Pictures [wikipedia.org].
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Do you watch TV? then you support sony as almost ALL tv shows are produced with either a Sony editing system (Sony OWNS the live TV editing market... Daily Show and Colbert Report are on Sony gear for live editing and switching...) shot on Sony cameras or are on cameras that use the Sony AVCHD format. Most of Discovery Channel now shoots on AVCHD cameras as digital delivery to cheap sd cards is better than the tape alternative.
So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different divisio
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So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different division that has nothing to do with the others, but it's still "Sony")
There is no such thing as a different division that has nothing to do with the others. They're all Sony. Criticising all of Sony for the actions of any of its portions is as rational as criticising a person for the actions of any of their limbs. People who don't have control over one or more limbs have a responsibility to keep them under control by any means necessary... straps, chains, whatever.
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But there are very distinct divisions that act very distinctly. It's not many limbs under control of one body, it's many individual people living under one house's rules.
A corporation is a legal construct and legally, all those divisions are part of the same corporation. That means it very much is many limbs under control of one body. Indeed, the word "body" has a sense which can mean a group or collection, so you are wrong whether you examine this from a logical standpoint or indeed from one of language.
Recent actions of SCE are despicable, which is unfortunate because I always considered them the "cleanest" part of sony.
What's unfortunate is your inability to understand that Sony is a single entity. That's how they want it, and therefore, that is how they get it. They put the same logo on
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Sounds like a plan, except I don't watch "broadcast programming" to start with. Perhaps those of you who decide to *completely* stop supporting Sony should write letters to the TV stations and TV shows that you care for/about, and let them know of your decision - which includes boycotting TV because they use Sony products to produce it.
Send letters to advertisers whose commercials you see on those shows, as well, telling them the same thing.
Hit the middlemen (the TV producers) in the pocketbook for their eq
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What exactly is wrong about any of this?
Sony: 90% of the people who buy this will copy games. You bought one, so you must copy games. We will fine you and take the dongle from you without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
Car Analogy -
Police: 90% of the people who drive down this street buy drugs, you drove down this street, so you must have bought drugs, we will fine you and take your car without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
See the problem?
What EXACTLY should they have done?
Design an
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Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
Wait....what? Are you serious? So developers are no longer allowed to recoup the millions of $ they are spending developing games? Either the company that made it, the company that published it, or the company that sold it are going to make no money if you try and sell the game for that cheap, or at least not enough to justify it.
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Sharpie markers can be used to "enable piracy". [wired.com]
Should we ban Sharpies? Sony has been freaking out over ridiculous stuff for years, and it's high time they get punched in the mouth for it (figuratively speaking, of course).
As for "OtherOS" enabling piracy, it wasn't until after it was removed that the various hacker groups really started trying to crack the PS3.
I blame Sony for everything they have done, whether it was "in reaction to those hackers", or just their own dim-witted execs trying to come up with
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Don't you think Sony has seen what happens to a platform when it gets broken open like happened on the PSP?
Like more people buying PSPs than would have otherwise?
They've found that if you let people have access to a moderate level of "Home Brew" creation ability, some assholes will use that ability to enable massive piracy, just because they can.
If you don't let people have access to a moderate level of home brew creation ability, some assholes will enable massive piracy just because they can. Since pira