Ubisoft Has Windows-Style Hardware-Based DRM For Games 473
New submitter Man Eating Duck writes "Guru3D describes how the activation system in Ubisoft's RTS game Anno 2070 also tracks hardware changes: 'So yesterday I started working on a performance review. We know (well, at least we figured we knew), that the game key can be used on three systems. That's fair; the first activation is used on my personal game rig. The second we installed on the AMD Radeon graphics test PC and the 3rd on our NVIDIA graphics test PC. ... For the NVIDIA setup I take out the GTX 580, and insert a GTX 590. When I now startup the game, 'BAM', again an activation is required. Once again I fill out the key, and now Ubisoft is thanking me with the message that I ran out of activations.' Guru3D subsequently discovered that Ubisoft was less than helpful: 'Sorry to disappoint you — the game is indeed restricted to 3 hardware changes and there simply is no way to bypass that.' I, and many with me, will never buy games with such a draconian DRM scheme, as it's very likely that I'll swap out enough components to run into this issue. Even the Steam version includes this nice 'feature.' It's probably a good idea to let Ubisoft know why we'll pass on this title."
And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
At least we don't have to put up with too much of this activation DRM hassle on the console versions...for now anyway. Of course, consoles do tend to follow on the heels of PC developments. And you can bet Ubisoft and other developers would love nothing more than killing off the secondary and rental market for consoles the same way they've killed them off for the PC market. I don't look forward to a day when I start up and console game and it saying "Sorry, you need an internet connection to activate this game," or the day when I can't loan a game to a friend or sell it (or buy it) used.
I'm not a pirate, but I can definitely understand why some otherwise honest people might turn to it (in light of the way honest people get screwed these days).
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree in principle. I don't think I have ever pirated a PC game, but I would never buy a game that I can't continue to use in perpetuity. I understand their efforts to prevent piracy, but this rises to the level of me paying full price for a game and only getting a temporary license for it. No thanks.
At least if I buy a console game I can be sure I won't get zapped with a "Sorry, you have to pay for this game again" screen eventually.
It doesn't seem smart at all for Ubisoft to alienate their best customers, power gamers who probably make more hardware chances than anyone.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Insightful)
Right. When I buy a game, I want to be able to use it for 20+ years, whenever I feel the desire. How many computers have you had in the last 10 years? If you count hardware changes as small as a swapped out graphics card, I'd say at least 5+ computers in the last 10 years.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Informative)
It's just 5 hardware changes across all devices you own worldwide, which is even more ridiculous. Those hoping to play the game on both a desktop PC and a laptop around the house or on the road are even worse off. (again, something Ubisoft's best customers are more likely to do than anyone else)
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Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Ubisoft needs to take the rose colored glasses off.
If I go based on JUST the equipment in my room right now...
8 PC's. These represent every PC I've used as my primary (excluding two) since 1997. I'm not going to rebuy a game a second time unless I REALLY loved it. I have physical copies of sierra games that don't work, so I bought the steam versions... which don't work(as in they don't work without tinkering.) This is what happens when the naive assumption of the existing hardware and operating system is used as a programming constant. I have physical copies of the Origin/Ultima/Wing Commander games, and I bought digital download versions where available.
Some of these games I had obtained at some point as a pirated copy, back before CD-ROM, you used to have to make physical copies of everything, this was a behavior instilled by Binary Systems - Starflight, and the early AGI Sierra games. Always play from the play disk, and never the originals. We no longer have the option to backup games, it's all "in the cloud", which means that should that company ever go bankrupt, or in the case of Sierra, all the source code to the game is lost, there is absolutely no way to play a game. At that point, only the pirate copies survive.
I'm actually rather fond of the "instruction manual" and "activation key" based installations, because you had to own the game at least once to install it. But after installing it, you still need to have the physical game to play it, not necessarily in the drive.
What's the best form of light-DRM?
Time-based activation IMO. Install the game with the code, give it 48 hours, and then the game tries to activate "online", or activates once multiplayer is engaged. Once activated, it only checks for simultaneous usage during multiplayer. This gives a wide enough window for people to try/rent a game, benchmarks, and swap out hardware to find the best working combination. As long as the "disc" is in the drive (or for download games, internet connectivity,) it resets the activation countdown to zero. If the game is already "in use" with that key, it just refuses to run without the disc (or until the other copy disconnects.)
The point of light DRM, as opposed to heavy-handed DRM, is to discourage casual copying (eg borrow from a friend, and then play from the installed copy in perpetuity.)
Heavy handed DRM assumes the user is a criminal and forces them to buy the software, or contact customer support again. Adobe does this with Photoshop, they write hidden sectors on the hard drive so that you can't casually hack the trial countdown. I've had to call Adobe no less than twice, and it's the only reason why I don't routinely reinstall the Windows OS anymore (I used to reinstall it every 6 months) because I have to call adobe and tell them I'm not running it on more than one PC.
Let's put this in perspective. If you pay someone minimum wage, eg 10$/hr to just field "I can't activate" calls for your games. You increase your support costs by having this.
Now I'm not saying that people don't pirate, because I've known more people who pirate PC games than I know people who never pirate. But there's behavior patterns that make it VERY easy to tell who's pirating the game, and that's a lot more cost effective to deny service to pirates. One way is to break the game so that pirate copies are effectively spoiled and useless. Put a timebomb in the game that is only triggered by skipping the activation step. Most "cracked" games simply NOOP instructions for doing the activation, they don't actually reprogram anything. So at some point in the game, something will look like a bug, but not positively identify that it's caused by piracy. The bug is then fixed by putting the original media or network connection in DDL versions back in the drive. Yes I'm aware that people make drive emulators, but that's not the point. It's actually an endless loop of having to install the unmodified game, patch, crack, reinstall, patch, crack to get past the timebomb.
It doesn't need to prevent the piracy.
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Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how deep this protection goes, i.e. we know it works with video cards - how about monitors? What happens if I get a new keyboard (especially one that would require drivers, i.e. high-end gaming keyboards and the like)?
Fortunately haven't bought this game (and now never will), but if I had I'd be demanding money back. Bad move, Ubisoft. Makes me not want to buy any of your products again, ever.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you're missing the ENTIRE point of this being a thread on Windows DRM. I'm saying that as many computers as I've had in the last 10 years, there's no way I could buy a game today with this DRM and still be able to play it in 20 years, because of the DRM and count of hardware changes.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
You won't be able to play it in 2 years, when they shut down the auth servers and forget to release a DRM patch.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
These game companies are a joke. They'll never outsmart the cracking groups.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
No, he's making a point. This sort of shit penalizes people who buy the software whilst doing nothing against pirates, because lets be honest here: This game will be on pirate bay within a week of release and the version of pirate bay will have the DRM as severed as charlie sheens tv career.
And thats whats so bizare. What rational consumer wants to PAY for a product that has judasware when they can download for free the same-product with the judasware removed.
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Not to split hairs, but Charlie Sheen has a new TV show currently in production.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Interesting)
This game will be on pirate bay within a week of release and the version of pirate bay will have the DRM as severed as charlie sheens tv career..
It already is: http://thepiratebay.org/search/Anno%202070/0/99/400 [thepiratebay.org]
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
The irony is that the pirated version would then actually be worth buying.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Funny)
DRM patch is usually released before the games hit the shelves anyways thanks to our Razor1911 friends :)
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, can you imagine? I bet 20 years from now we're going to have to do things like emulate false activation servers for DRM so we can actually play the games.
It's ultimately a technical problem we've already solved. We would just end up running another specialized piece of software in a virtual machine like many of us have to do now with Windows 7 and playing games.
Look at something like DOOM. No DRM really (at least not of the nastiest sort), but it can't exactly run natively in Windows 7. Instead, it gets run in DOSBox. I'd imagine that 20 years from now we'll have Starcraft II emulating Blizzard's older Battle.net servers so we can actually play it.
That, or we can just use the cracks that exist now and then run it in the appropriate OS via a VM.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Informative)
I bet 20 years from now we're going to have to do things like emulate false activation servers for DRM so we can actually play the games.
Maybe you will. I sure as hell won't, because I won't buy a game that uses DRM like that on general principle. I don't care how awesome it is - my life will not be duller or less meaningful if I never play it.
/SOAPBOX
This is one of the principles Ubisoft and others have forgotten. I don't have to buy your crap, and I sure as hell won't if I don't trust you. Ever. You aren't entitled to a sale, Ubisoft. You aren't entitled to anything. Show this kind of arrogance, and all you get is me utterly ignoring everything you do from now on.
SOAPBOX
These companies seem to think that all they really have to do is hype a title and then the mass of cattle-gamers will rush to the nearest store and buy 5 copies on release day, fearing their lives will end in dismal agony if they don't. Maybe that'll work for a while, but eventually people get wise to this sort of thing, and then you're screwed. I cite plummeting movie theatre attendance in the past 50 years as an example.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly this. You put that much crap into your product, and I just ignore you as a vendor entirely. I won't pirate it, I won't play it, I won't buy it. Ever.
Ubisoft is dead to me.
If I'm not wanting to buy the game (whether I can afford it or not) - I'm not willing to pirate it either.
There are so many other publishers out there that are producing good product and not crippling it with such crud that I'm not missing anything - I don't have enough time to play all the games I pick up on Steam over the Christmas sale to have beaten them all by the time the next year's sale comes around.
Ubisoft, you put landmines in the playing field. I'm taking my ball and going to someone else's park, and I'm not coming back.
Re:The problem is console kiddies... (Score:4, Informative)
Crysis is made by Crytek, and distributed by EA games, not Ubisoft. Also, Crytek distributes their game engine as part of an SDK for free, so you can mod their games or create your own from scratch: http://www.crydev.net/ [crydev.net]
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Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Interesting)
paying full price for a game and only getting a temporary license for it.
I remember a game development manager of Ubisoft being asked about piracy some years back during a talk at my university. He said something along the lines of:
The 70% of sales of a single game are made during the first week after the release. The current goal of copy protection mechanisms is not to prevent piracy forever but to gain time.
That made sense.
Now this DRM scheme does absolutely nothing to gain time but only harms legitimate owners on the long run. What is the logic behind this?
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
The companies want you to buy a brand new copy of their game from which they will earn a profit and not a used second hand game from which they earn zilch.
This way they get profit from the early adopters who is willing to shell out a lot to be first to play a game and then they can milk more profit when the retail price goes down and regular people starts buying the game, previously the early adopters could sell their copy when they were through with their game to regain some of the overprice they paid to be first, now that wont work anymore.
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Pirates don't pirate because of DRM. They pirate because it is easier than working for x amount of hours and then driving to the store, hoping it is in stock, only to be hit with DRM.
Pirate version has a small chance of being infected with something that will destroy your system, versus a guaranteed 100% chance that the retail version will be infected with something that'll ruin your computer's performance and deny you access to what you have bought. Usually the Pirate Bay comments will include stuff like "
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Interesting)
I've downloaded many pirate versions or cracks for games I own and even bought on launch day because the DRM is an annoying piece of shit that interferes with my ability to play, and sometimes with other functions of my machine.
These other functions have even included being able to make functioning system backups or the ability to burn cds.
I've never tried to crack a game on Steam, because once it's installed and has had it's activation, I've never been annoyed by any Steam game. With the frequency of changing hardware and the occasional nuke & pave (something that happens when you test beta software), I'm sure I'd hit their fuck you, err, activation limit in 6 to 8 months.
Am I not what you call a pirate? Doesn't matter, I'm what Ubisoft calls a pirate, and their antics are the exact kind of reasons I use cracks. Not too likely to be doing it with their software now, they really pissed me off last year and I've vowed to not buy their stuff again, until they back off of the screw the customer garbage, because that DRM B.S. doesn't stop the pirates, it only slows them down, often by less than a few hours.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Informative)
Quote: "I've never tried to crack a game on Steam, because once it's installed and has had it's activation, I've never been annoyed by any Steam game. "
Be careful. Being on Steam only guarantees it has the light layer of Steam DRM, it DOES NOT prevent the publisher from requiring other, more obnoxious forms of DRM as well. I bought that Pitch Black game on Steam (super sale, looked entertaining), but have never been able to play it because it packs in a non-64bit compatible version of SecuROM as well.
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Not to mention, some Steam games come with DRM like "Games for Windows Live", so while you may be able to install the same game via Steam any number of times, it has a finite number of GFWL activations to it.
I buy a lot of games, but I've become very careful in my purchase choices over the past couple years because of this crap. Has there ever been any single-player game that was effectively prevented from being pirated? It's easy enough to track keys and so forth for multiplayer, but with SP it doesn't see
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/9860/ [steampowered.com]
I did misremember the copy protection, though. It's Tages, not SecuROM.
The Steam page states that you get three activations, and after 30 days, they regenerate. This is completely incorrect, you get three activations period, for life, no exceptions.
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I've only ever been annoyed by two games I own on Steam.
First is Beyond Good & Evil. You can't really config the controls to set up a gamepad properly (and it's a port from a console!), so I have to use XPadder (a wonderful program that lets you remap keys from one device to another, plus do cool things like macros and whatnot) to get a controller to work correctly.
Secondly is Street Fighter IV. I bought it to enjoy it on my PC and play with my friends. I have to sign into that goddamned Windows Live se
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Insightful)
like there is this gigantic elephant in the room
Ha!
(Ironically, I don't believe there are any elephant people in the game.)
Not a single line references the fact that animals are walking around, talking and holding jobs.
Have you considered this is a good thing?
Think about it. The camera shows the species have been given latin classifications. Note that there's also very few "wild" animals that are anything like ours today. A possibility is that our wild animals evolved to sentience (eventually).
The fact that no one says anything about it says a lot. They are accepted as normal and living side by side with their fellow sentients. How is this in any way a bad thing?
Let's put it another way. Say a game has a homosexual male character in it. If they made the occasional gay joke, it might offend some people and some people might laugh. But if they don't make any jokes whatsoever, what does that tell you? It tells you that no one cares about that person's status as a homosexual, and therefore it is so commonly accepted that no one even thinks to say something about it. This is a good thing.
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Pirates don't pirate because of DRM. They pirate because ..... only to be hit with DRM.
So in other words... they pirate becuase of DRM.
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I pirate either as a "try-before-you-buy" (and that means I delete games I don't end up buying), or use it for games I bought but the retail version is known to have some kind of nasty DRM in it.
I have a couple games on Steam that have the godawful Games for Windows Live crap on them, and I assume it's just a matter of time before I'm not allowed to play them due to some SNAFU on Microsoft's part. I am fully prepared to pirate said games at that point.
Of course they do (Score:5, Informative)
Many pirates pirate because of DRM. Some also pirate out of an interest in trying the game before buying it, some because they feel entitled to their license even though the CD got scratched, some because they have no disposable income of their own (or no room in their budget for it), and some out of sheer sloth/greed.
But to say that DRM doesn't create pirates is to completely fail to grasp some of the most basic principles that drive human behavior.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:4, Interesting)
It's getting to the consoles now as well. I was fully intent on purchasing Battlefield 3 for PC, but I'd already gone well over my gaming budget due to good Steam deals. Some friends and I went out and rented a copy of BF3 on Xbox 360 instead just to find out that you need to enter a one-time use code that comes with the game to access the multiplayer. I fully understand the used game market hurts the developers; however, would it really have been unreasonable to include a 3-7 day trial for renters like myself.
I'm glad this happened though, after playing the single-player campaign instead I deemed the game not worthy of a purchase. EA had a definite sale with me and managed to mess it up, my how these DRM schemes save them so much money.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'm convinced GFWL is the most massively retarded online profile/DRM bastard child ever devised.
Re:And they wonder why people pirate (Score:5, Informative)
I fully understand the used game market hurts the developers;
WRONG WRONG WRONG. I'm sorry, but you've been bamboozled. The used game market doesn't hurt the developer. The used game market is a secondary market that exists in parallel to the primary market, wherein owners exchange goods in return for money. Any time a game enters the used game market, the developer has already received money for the game. Furthermore, if it's a true used game market, the games in circulation are originals, and don't involve CD-Rs. Therefore, from the perspective of the developer, any game that is in the used game market is identical to a game that is sitting in the closet of the first buyer of the game.
The argument that the used game market hurts developers is identical to the one that people who don't buy multiple copies of a game hurt a game developer, or who don't buy the same game every 6 months, or every 3 months. It is fundamentally based on the assumption that developers have a right to your money, and that you do not have a right to the product you're buying from them.
It is absolut bullshit, and every developer who pulls this argument gets put on my personal do not buy list. Yes, I'm down to buying a few games per year, mostly from small time developers. I still buy the occasional big-budget title, but after ME3, I'm probably done for a long time.
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I have to take issue with the idea that the used game market hurts developers. It might, but I don't think we have enough evidence to support it. How many used game sales are lost new game sales? It's similar to the argument that each pirated copy represents a lost sale--some used sales do represent a lost new sale, while others don't. Some people simply can't justify spending $60 on a game.
There's also the fact that people who sell used games often turn around and buy new ones. Again, not a 1:1 ratio,
Not fair (Score:3)
Despite what the article says, a three machine activation limit for a game is NOT FAIR. It is an utterly unreasonable restriction of my use of the product, and I refuse to buy games that have such a restriction.
Of course, I don't pirate them either (out of a near OCD-level desire to keep my nose clean), I just buy other games instead.
I won't touch Ubisoft's products with a ten foot pole.
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Crippling the secondhand market by requiring another purchase to unlock content and/or tying games to hardware cultural theft, and it is not in the spirit if copyright law.
IMO, this is one case where the companies engaging in it deserve no copyright protections whatsoever and people who crack these sorts of games to repair the damage for future generations actually are the kind of heroes of posterity that Slashdot stereotypically paints pirates as being.
If they don't want people to be able to play the game
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I don't think it's quite the same. You see, with a console, you know what you're getting into when you buy it. You know that the console you purchase today will be the same 10 years from now, 20 years, etc. And the only way to "upgrade" the hardware is to buy the next console that comes out. Most who do this, but want to play the older games too, will keep the older machine laying around. In doing so, you're able to continue to play the older games you like on your old console for as long as you want.
Someone said it on slashdot in an earlier case (Score:5, Insightful)
"As long as razor1911 has anything to say about it, we will have game demos..."
i think that applies to this situation as well.
There are already cracks for this specific game (Score:5, Insightful)
the effort to control game piracy through DRM is futile.
The only thing that might work is if you keep the game online either by not releasing the server code for a multiplayer game or keep the the whole thing on line by using a system like OnLive to keep the whole game code in the cloud.
Short of that... it will be pirated.
It is the desire for a 100% conversion (Score:5, Insightful)
In the adult industry the trick of the trade is to show just enough free content to convert people who want to see more without giving them to much. The to much is very simple, if they "come" before they join, they don't join.
Conversion ratios are very low, 1% would make many an adult web site owner cream his pants. But the idea that you can get 100% if only you do X has yet to take hold although companies that sell anti-piracy scams sure are trying.
PC gaming has a LOT of "gamers" who want to try a game, or have zero budget. They are the equivelant of kiddies watching the scambled porn channel for just enough signal to "get off". People with ancient PC's downloading games they can't play or afford. There is no way to convert them to paying customers but the anti-piracy scam industry, the makers of DRM or the anti-piracy lawyers, sell the idea that those 1 million downloads from brazil where computers are 486's for the rich can be turned into paying customers for Crysis 2.
The proof? I got none EXCEPT that completely and utterly crap games or very early releases that barely work or 3D CAD software only people with engineering degrees can use are STILL downloaded in their millions. I am not saying piracy doesn't have an effect, I myself pirate games I once would have bought because the companies behavior disgusts me (Bethseda, fuck you and your horse armor) but its total effect is over-rated. A game like Anno 2070 has a niche appeal, a lot of the people downloading it just don't really want to play it, they are not even trying it out as a demo, they just want the "street cred" for having had it, played an hour or so and then discard it. Ubisoft might be having a wet dream that if there is no option to pirate it, then they would pay full price for it, but that just isn't there.
If piracy goes away, the sales might double, that sounds amazing but Ubisoft is dreaming of a 1000% increase, remember that they think every illegal download is a missed sale. But with DRM sales actually decrease because for a lot of people, they just got to many bad experiences. Like me and Betsheda game.I am not even bothering with a single player RPG anymore until it latest "expansion" pack has been announced and someone wrapped it all up with some user made bug fixes and released it. The pirate experience both in DRM and in getting the "whole" game has become fastly superior to the bought experience. Smart move Betsheda in limiting certain starter packs to certain regions, gods knows RPG players are not known for being completionists who want to experience everything and so you force them to pirate sides to get content already included in the game but withheld from them because they bought it at store X instead of store Y. That is like forcing a good kid to get his coca-cola from the coke dealer because you don't want them to know about drugs. No that makes no sense and neither does region restricted content in the modern age.
That's funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it in the terms? (Score:5, Interesting)
If this isn't made clear to consumers before purchasing -- or licensing, I guess -- the game, this is a great opportunity to make DRM even less profitable for Ubisoft:
1) Buy game. Keep receipt and copy of terms.
2) (Legitimately) Update/change your hardware more than 3 times over the course of a a year or two
3) When the game stops working, ask for an activation
4) When they decline, ask for a refund
5) When they decline, sue in your local small claims court. It's usually free to do
6) Let Ubisoft either issue thousands of refunds or defend thousands of small claims cases
(Note that if the issue is described but is buried in fine print or displayed as grey-on-black, it's likely still arguable as such a material condition that hiding it is itself deceptive).
Re:Is it in the terms? (Score:5, Interesting)
EULAs are not as binding as many would think.
In part due to how way the transaction is handled. I am expected to hand over my money and buy the game THEN get to see the terms, if I do not agree to them I am still out my money with no recourse.
Look at any other agreement and the terms are known up front, even if in legalese.
Taking out a loan? You'll see the terms before you sign.
Singing a lease? Again you get to see the terms.
In both cases you can walk away with no harm done.
ImpulseDriven (Score:2)
This was where ImpulseDriven (Steam competitor started by Stardock) was nice, it would show the DRM used prior to purchase. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be case since GameStop bought them out.
Personally I don't buy DRM'd games, which unfortunately means most PC games.
Gabe Newell should treat them to lunch... (Score:5, Interesting)
These guys are walking billboards highlighting the value of Steam vs the crap DRM-ware of Ubi, Origin, MS Games, etc.
I was stuck at the office very, very late one night. Nothing to do. So I logged into Steam, downloaded a game I owned ("Bloody Good Time", excellent FWIW), and played a while until I could get of there.
The MBA's at Ubu/EA/MS would explode at the very concept. And it is why I will be spending my money at Steam.
(And Gabe, if you read this, I can haz HL2e3/HL3 now plz?)
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Not enough of a value obviously. FTFA: Even the Steam version includes this nice 'feature.'
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Except this DRM applies to Steam versions of these games as well.
Three hardware changes? (Score:5, Informative)
People bitch about Windows activation, but on the few occasions I've experienced where Windows needed to be re-activated because of a hardware change, the process was completely painless. As in, "I'm helping out my mom on Christmas Eve and dinner is going to be served in a half hour" painless.
The first couple of times I called, I spoke to an Indian man who asked me a few questions and gave me a code. More recently, it was a fully automated system. I don't think the process has ever taken as much as five minutes from beginning to end. It seems to me the for individual users, Windows Activation is more of a way to scold you than anything else: "You do know you're only allowed to use this copy of Windows on one computer... right?"
Now, if Ubisoft is really claiming that you get three activations and after that your software is useless, well, that seems like something else entirely.
Re:Three hardware changes? (Score:5, Informative)
You've been lucky. I've witnessed a retail version of windows XP be refused activation after a hardware change. Calling microsoft was unproductive.
I call bullshit.
The only reasons a key is blacklisted from the installer (ISOs and retail discs get updated with new installers and key blacklists) or from the activation program are:
1) Key is fake. .nfo release notes, or keys that you can find via google when some idiot or some management software posts a public log that contains it.
2) Key is a volume/site license key that has been deactivated or has reached its maximum number of installations.
3) Key is a single-installation or limited-time key, such as a demo/beta/preview key, or an MSDN-AA key (cheap/free Windows through your school).
4) Key has seen an exorbitant amount of use and has been flagged as a pirated key. Typically these are the keys that pirates insert into the
Manually activating with a valid key (none of the above situation apply) is as simple as calling the number (24/7, toll free in every country that matters) and keying in the code it displays on screen. An automated system, or a live person, will then ask you how many PCs the copy of Windows is installed on, and you will say "1", and then they will give you a key to type into the box, and you're done.
You can reformat and change your hardware every fucking week if you want.
Re: (Score:3)
You've been lucky. I've witnessed a retail version of windows XP be refused activation after a hardware change. Calling microsoft was unproductive.
The retail licenses do not have activation limits, but do require phone activation after the 5th.
My guess is that this person activated on a new rig/setup, but then later on booted up an older rig/setup that had already been using the same license, flagging that license as violating. The only ways this can happen without an actual license violation is if the person upgraded some hardware, reactivated, but then later on downgraded back to the same original hardware; or the license is now being misused by
Re: (Score:3)
Installing any other OS ... b) doesn't involve talking to an Indian man or a computer
I take umbrage to this on two points.
First, upgrading to Lion required me to take a journey deep into my soul as I was guided by a Lakota man in a Nike jogging suit.
Second off, I'm pretty sure my MacBook Pro WAS involved.
Reviewer's sweet revenge (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Reviewer's sweet revenge (Score:5, Insightful)
I was about to suggest the same. I just hope all the reviewers start doing this for games in general, so that any review published will be tanked so low that no one will buy them in the first place when DRMs are encountered =)
UbiSoft never seems to get a clue (Score:4, Interesting)
Doesnt effect me in the slighest (Score:5, Insightful)
I dont bother with ubisoft games anymore, I wont even waste my time pirating them because THEY NO LONGER EXIST outside of the fact that people should know that Nazisoft is a worthless shit company who blames all their problems on piracy and not the fact that 99% of their games suck donkey dick.
STOP REVIEWING THEIR GAMES, duh (Score:5, Insightful)
The article has an update:
Update monday Jan 16 - 2012: We have been contacted by bluebyte over the weekend, the company that developed the Anno series. Our key has been pretty much unlocked allowing us to properly work on this article. To be continued ....
Uh, NO, NO, NO! Ubisoft and other vendors will continue this trend of archaic stupid DRM until it hits them in the wallet. The 'review' industry should take a stance - no reviews, no press, nothing, until Ubisoft (and any other vendors that do this kind of shit) stop the excessive DRM.
Do you really think the developer of the game will give out an 'unlocked' code to anyone OTHER than a high-profile website reviewer? What if you ran into this at home, which with a grand total of 3 registration attempts, is easy to do over the course of a short period of time: "When contacting Ubisoft marketing here in the Netherlands, their reply goes like this: 'Sorry to disappoint you - the game is indeed restricted to 3 hardware changes and there simply is no way to bypass that. We also do not have 7 copies of the game for you'.:"
THATS what average joe-user will get, a simple 'tough shit'. STOP REVIEWING THEIR GAMES
Re:STOP REVIEWING THEIR GAMES, duh (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not just pirate it? (Score:2)
Just dont buy the stuff. (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
THIS. This shit right here is what _creates_ people who pirate software. Not because it is "free", but because it is FREE OF RESTRICTIONS on what I can do with the software that I (would have) legally paid for and own.
Hey, Ubisoft employees! Start thanking your bosses now for the loss of your jobs, especially those in the PC gaming section. I have a business idea for you: Start a new gaming company with the best and brightest among you and put out your games for the PC market WITHOUT DRM of any kind. Skip the major distributor route (no EA, no Ubisoft, no Company X). Put it on Steam. Put it out at a good price (_not_ $59.99 US). Put in GOOD game play with replayability. We will fill your coffers with gold and jewels.
Those that ultimately pirate your title? Well, fuck em because they were never going to pay for it anyway. They aren't a lost sale, they are just lost.
Another Sale Lost (Score:3, Interesting)
This game was actually on my radar (on my Steam "Wish List" and all). I was planning on picking it up when the price had gone down a bit or when Steam had a special on it. Now no. Never. You lost a sale. Hell, I'm not even going to pirate it. Fuck. You.
Last ubisoft game you purchased? (Score:4, Interesting)
So I had to google search a list of Ubisoft games to find out what the last one I bought was. I had to go all the way to the M's before I found one I owned. Funny enough once i got past the Myst series I didn't see any more games that I bought. So you just keep in spitting in to the wind Ubisoft.
Restricted Install Games (Score:2, Informative)
Not Windows style DRM (Score:5, Informative)
Rant and rave about Windows DRM all you want, but the way Windows activation was designed, it actually appears intended to stop piracy. You activate once, and store that hardware key on their validation servers. It doesn't repeatedly poll the server to ensure validation, it only gets used during updates, and it will only block a new update until you re-activate. If you change hardware after a certain amount of time, it will allow you to validate a new install, invalidating and blocking updates on the old install. If you do so before that certain amount of time, all you have to do is call a number, claim you replaced hardware, and replace the existing validation. They're not going to care unless you start doing that multiple times each month.
This, you get three times, period. There is no expiry period. There is no way to call and flush out an old install. Three times, and then the product is dead. This sounds more like a mechanism to prevent resale of games, rather than a way to prevent piracy. How dare someone else get to play the game without paying them additional money! Just wait until they start requiring a webcam, so they can perform facial recognition and ensure you are the only one playing the game.
I'm out (Score:5, Insightful)
I've actually spent quite some money recently on games produced by EA and Ubisoft. When I learnt about the bad behaviour of the Ubisoft activation scheme, I stopped playing the game immediately and reinstalled my workstation to clean up. Shortly afterwards I wanted to sell an EA game and got told on the hotline that there is no way I can transfer the activation key to another Origin account (Steam à la EA, with lots of privacy issues). I told them they have just lost a customer who paid lots and lots of money for their games. Because of the privacy issues I again reinstalled my system and I will not buy games from large producers anymore. I will either choose DRM free indie games, or ... well you know what the other option is.
Video game industry, you can thank EA and Ubisoft for not getting any money from me anymore.
We? (Score:4, Interesting)
I know... (Score:5, Interesting)
I was talking about games that use Steam DRM, vs just the Steam store. The only two non-Steam games I have are Fallout 3 and Arkham Asylum. Past that, if you don't use Steam DRM, I don't buy it. Respect your customer, or you won't have customers.
Re:I know... (Score:4, Insightful)
The Humble Indie Bundle said that their most requested feature was Steam support. It just blew me away that people would be so dependent that they would be asking for DRM.
Because it isn't SOLELY DRM for the publisher, it's a service to the costumer as well. It's convenient to have an account with all your games and potentially cloud saves wherever you go, and be able to install on any machine you own on a whim without worrying about having the cd's, codes or any of that. The reason Steam WORKS at ALL for customers is because most people are inherently lazy. Valve offered a system to manage all the games you own, install on multiple pc's, cloud saves, auto-patching (even when idle, but logged in), an "offline mode" (which is increasingly disappearing from PC games), no "CD checks" (which is great for us net book owners) and achievements.
Steam IS DRM, but it provides a service, which is why I support it. I will however not buy any game over Steam that uses any additional form of DRM as it would only offer complications and aggravation.
I also understand that the DRM free games from HiB contain many of these features but not all. Personally I've been a big HiB supporter from the beginning and have something like 7 or 8 "download pages" all registered to the same email address. If I want to install one of those games I would rather boot steam than jump to each of those sites until I guess/ grab the right one. Once again, Steam keeps things simple.
Thankful for the DRM Crackers (Score:3)
I once had a DVD drive that didn't support the disc check that was done to ensure you had an authentic disc in the drive. I tried to fix this via Internet searches and posts on the game makers support site, but without success. I'm thankful for the people that cracked this kind of DRM because without it I wouldn't be able to play my legally purchased games. Plus, since I had opened the package, the stores wouldn't take it back and the game maker wouldn't help me either assuming that I was trying to do something nefarious. Saying this, the DRM for this game will be cracked and we will be free to play it on any computer we want without worrying about hardware changes. The worse the DRM, the harder the hacking community will work to bypass it. In my opinion, when DRM becomes noticeable to the consumer it has crossed the line.
This is one reason piracy exists. (Score:3)
If you say otherwise, then I'm going to pirate it.
That way, we both agree that the game isn't mine, but I'm playing it anyway.
Ubisoft execs, I can turn this around for you (Score:3, Funny)
ubsoft peeps-
I got connections all over the place. I know the Editor N Chief of Kotaku , IGN , Engadget I’ll be meeting them later today to discuss your situation. I'll get you attention you need pax east pax west , e3 , CES , Gamer Con , SSXW ,Comic Con, Germany I’m all over the place. I'll leverage my relationships with my main distribution arm landing us in GameStop , fry’s , Myers , Best buy , Activision , MLG , play N trade and a lot more.
Dont worry about those complete morons on slashdo tpissing and moaning about drm. I say Welcome to the Internet. I'm 38 I wwebsite as on the internet when they were a sperm in their daddys balls and before it was the internet. I'll get this shit straightened out...
Gimme a shout.
Paul Christoforo, Ocean Marketing
These are the people who get rich (Score:5, Funny)
That kid you knew in pre-school who, when the square peg didn't fit in the round hole, first tried to force it in until his fingers were bloodied and then finally hammered it in with his forehead? He grew up to be the CEO of Ubisoft.
Re:PC gaming (Score:5, Insightful)
The ability to mod games & to use a mouse & keyboard are the main reasons I'll never bother with a console.
That being said, I swore off Ubisoft sometime after they ruined the Might & Magic franchise.
Re:PC gaming (Score:5, Insightful)
Would I ever purchase Skyrim on a console when the PC version allows mods, better graphics, etc? No.
Would I ever purchase Madden on the PC and play with mouse and keyboard rather than on my PS3 and big screen? No.
Re: (Score:3)
Not that I play Madden, but my PC is attached to a 46" HDTV & I have a USB connector for a PS2 gamepad (to play Shank as of late), so I'm not sure where you were trying to go with your reply.
Is Madden console exclusive now?
Wow, you are stupid (Score:3, Interesting)
So rather then dealing with the easily cracked DRM of the PC, you accept the complete and total DRM of the console? That is like saying you hate the eroding freedom in the west and move to North-Korea.
Ah but you are trolling because you suddenly draw in drivers which have nothing to do with DRM anyway. Oh and if consoles are PC's now, you don't mind donating your PC and reading the net from your console from now on do you? Oh, thought so.
Re:Wow, you are stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Consoles aren't general purpose, they're game appliances.
DRM on the console won't interfere with my ability to do other things that aren't related to games.
Re:Wow, you are stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
DRM on the console won't interfere with my ability to do other things that aren't related to games.
You mean like installing Linux? [wikipedia.org]
Re:Wow, you are stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Sony put Linux on the PS3 solely to avoid EU taxes that apply to consoles [kotaku.com], by pretending that it's a general computing device.
Re: (Score:3)
Does that mean Sony, having removed linux capability on the PS3 via firmware update, should now owe the EU a large chunk of back-taxes?
Re:Wow, you are stupid (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
That's kind of the point. They're trying to kill PC gaming and get everyone to move to locked down consoles. Thankfully the PC is open, and as long as its open there will always be games for it. They're likely to be better games than the mass market console stuff too.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:PC gaming (Score:5, Insightful)
Indy gaming is why to stick with the PC. It's inexpensive and user-centric, compared to $60+ DRM'd AAA titles.
Re: (Score:2)
Steam for example will auto update your graphic card drivers for you making it as user friendly as consoles in many respects.
More recent versions of Nvidia's Windows drivers will do this as well.
Re:so glad (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm surprised that Steam allows the additional DRM scheme on top of the Steam system. It totally wrecks the value of Steam. Now we have to research which titles are draconian before a Steam purchase. I haven't really worried about it up to this point.
Re:so glad (Score:4, Informative)
If by "research" you mean "check the Steam Store page", then yes, you do. Case in point:Anno 2070 [steampowered.com]. Specifically says "3rd party DRM Solidshield Tages SAS 3 machine activation limit"
Yes, I do love Steam.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean it isn't just using both types of DRM?
Re:gamers changes hardware a lot (Score:5, Informative)
To answer your question, no you cannot buy the same game twice; even if bought retail you cannot register two keys to the same account.
You would have to make a second account for the second key/copy.
Re: (Score:3)
I can't imagine that's going to make the folk at Steam very happy.
I think Valve has the most to lose here. If people encounter DRM problems with these titles, they're probably going to blame Steam--not Ubisoft. Not sure why Valve would even agree to something which could really hurt their brand like that. The whole point of Steam was to avoid shit like this.