Computer Games That Defined RPGs In the 1980s 350
adeelarshad82 writes "The 1980s were huge for RPGs. This genre was one of the most defining game forms in the computer gaming world. A recently published article strolls down the memory lane to look back at classic computer games that both defined and extended the definition of the RPG in the 1980s. The roundup includes some obvious ones like Ultima and The Bard's Tale, and others which you may never have heard of."
Quest for Glory... (Score:5, Informative)
Nuff said. Great series...humor was great.
Re:Quest for Glory... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Quest for Glory... (Score:4, Informative)
I was glad to see Dungeon Master mentioned. There's a modern dungeon crawler based on similar values in the works called The Legend of Grimrock [grimrock.net] which is getting released in April. I'm actually looking forward to this more than Diablo 3 and for similar nostalgic reasons.
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I assume you mean QFG2? Yes, it was remade: http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/qfg2/homepage/homepage.html [agdinteractive.com]
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How the heck are those legal? (I looked through the FAQs and don't see this covered -- e.g. no mention of Sierra/the existing owner of copyrights/trademarks saying these are OK, preferably with proof.)
Why aren't these clearly copyright infringement (due to the art), and trademark infringement (due to the names, characters, etc.)?
Because of the "you can't protect game rules" laws, presumably you could make a new game that seemed very much like the original, if it used completely different art, none of the s
Only 70% (Score:5, Funny)
You're old. (Score:5, Funny)
I bet you even went to brick and mortar stores to buy such games.
My favorite was "Nybbles and Bytes" across from the Tacoma mall. I was sad when they closed.
Re:You're old. (Score:5, Interesting)
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At the local mall, there was a "Babbage's" and an "Electronics Boutique" right by each other. They would always try to undercut each other, so you would want to check both.
I remember one stuck with the old 8 bit systems for longer than the other, but I can't remember which.
There was also an odd local store which stocked Atari 8 bit series stuff until at least 1995; they had only Atari hardware; ST and Falcon 030 computers; and Jaguar game consoles.
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You haven't played "Pong" yet (Score:3)
Wait till you get your fair share of "Pong" ... then you can call yourself "Old" or "Classic"
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Only 70% (Score:4, Interesting)
remember [...] the original Phantasy Star?
Hell, yes! Have you ever played SMS Power!'s retranslation? It is far more faithful to the Japanese original than the butchered official release. Get it here. [pscave.com]
Duke (Score:2)
Re:Duke (Score:4, Funny)
Duke Nukem Forever is more 90s.
The question is, which 90s?
Available at GOG (Score:5, Informative)
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I picked up all the Ultimas during a sale they had recently. Just for the record, some things don't always translate well from memory: U3 is tough grind, and unlike the grinding in WoW, staring at 3D wireframe dungeons is nowhere near as fun.
I also picked up the entire M&M pack. Might and Magic 3, despite the robots, really kicked ass (it came out in '91).
Playing MYST right now.
GOG is awesome.
Wizard's Crown (Score:2)
Yeah. Wish they'd bring back that game, plus its sequel, Eternal Dagger. I miss WC, with its complex turn-based tactical combat system.
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I loved WC, but never got to play Eternal Dagger (nobody ever had it in stock). AFAIK, it was the first skill based RPG (you gain skill points as you play instead of levels). Still, the game was Ultima-ish in presentation. Was a relatively serious game, but had a killer rabbit "Easter egg" (quotes because it was easy to find - the big black area on the map).
As far as innovative games, I'd say the platformer Below the Root was missed - while not the first platformer by far, and certainly not popular (due to
Re:Available at GOG (Score:5, Funny)
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.nz/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html [blogspot.co.nz]
You should!!!!
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We're fighting a losing battle against the corpus linguists, mate. I fully expect "alot" to be added to the dictionary soon.
So... you mean they're trying to allot a different meaning to it?
Final Fantasy 7 (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously when are they going to remake this game? As a long term fan of old school RPGs like Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 3, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Suikoden, ... Final Fantasy 7 was an epochal and defining moment in the whole history of video games!
It has been consistently voted as the best game of all time. The characters were stunning each deserving of games in their own right, and experienced large character arcs. The story was amazing and well ahead of any film or book I have ever seen/read. The story of FF7 can be understood on multiple levels and there are dozens of themes that are introduced throughout the game, left hanging while more are introduced and then wrapped up later.
The end of disk 1 was the saddest moment I have ever felt playing a video game. Quite how the story built up that relationship and that the unexpected twist was gut wrenching.
FF7 is a skillful masterpiece. The new generation needs this classic in an updated format. It's a shame that games are not timeless like books. They really do age fast.
Re:Final Fantasy 7 (Score:5, Informative)
People asked Squaresoft Enix if they would ever consider doing open-world, really long Final Fantasy games again, or if they'd consider making a remake of the older ones. They said it would be almost impossible to update those games to PS3 graphics because the amount of work involved to produce such a game would be too high.
Which shows us the problem with modern consoles: great graphics, decent or terrible gameplay, short-ass games.
I myself didn't like FF13 at all. I enjoyed FF13-2 a lot more, but goodness that game was short.
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Re:Final Fantasy 7 (Score:5, Interesting)
They said it would be almost impossible to update those games to PS3 graphics because the amount of work involved to produce such a game would be too high.
Personally I don't want "PS3 graphics" if that means looking like the modern games -- the whole reason I think FF 7/8/9 are so beautiful is that the worlds are largely hand-drawn 2D; all I really want changed in a remake is to have those same drawings re-scanned at a higher res :-P
Re:Wha? (Score:4, Interesting)
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bulk of ff7 is rendered backgrounds.. imho xenogears had a nice system, bit of a mix'n'match.
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Thing is, Square-Enix were wrong about the cost of producing an open(ish) world Final Fantasy game, with world map, side-quests, exploration and whatnot on a current-gen console. And they weren't just a little bit wrong, they were very wrong. Extravagantly wrong. Wrong with cherries on top.
See, it's been done - and pretty early in the console cycle. Lost Odyssey, from Mistwalker, was a game cut from exactly the same mold as the Playstation era Final Fantasies. It had a world map, controllable boats and airs
Re:Final Fantasy 7 (Score:5, Informative)
Title of this article: Computer Games That Defined RPGs In the 1980s When was FF7 released?
Besides, FF6 was better :P
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ugh, get the PC version, and I personally think you read into it too much, its a traditional 2d RPG with video and the start of the OMFG get on with it overdramatic story lines, not jeebus
"It has been consistently voted as the best game of all time."
not by the lists I read ... see how that works?
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4/5/6 were pretty bloody good, if you've never played them.
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Everybody who likes FF7 over FF6?
FF7 was their first RPG.
6 was better. That's just a fact.
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Planescape: Torment puts FF7 to shame in any form or terms of a cRPG. I have one of the 'rare' PC versions of FF7, good game, enjoyable. But not a masterpiece.
Re:Final Fantasy 7 (Score:4, Interesting)
Wasteland. (Score:5, Informative)
Wasteland. The spiritual ancestor of the Fallout series.
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Re:Wasteland. (Score:5, Funny)
You see an IBM AT on the table. The screen says Wasteland 2. You shiver with anticipation.
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/ [inxile-entertainment.com]
Obvious omissions (Score:3, Informative)
Sierra Games was big back in the day, and the Kings Quest series from memory were almost as big as the Leisure Suit Larry series.
Re:Obvious omissions (Score:5, Informative)
Those are not RPGs, they are adventure games.
Re:Obvious omissions (Score:5, Insightful)
no number system and pointing and clicking on every pixel of the screen to figure out you need to stick your finger up an owls ass sound like classic RPG play to me, from pen and paper to modern day
oh no, wait that is what ADVENTURE games are ... just cause its set in a fantasy setting, and you get involved with it somehow, does not mean its an RPG. I would play Toejam & Earl like it was like smoking crack, but I would not pretend its nothing more than a Easter egg hunt.
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Toejam & Earl is a roguelike actually.
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Some of Sierra's old games are still amongst my favorites. However, there's no way they could possibly be classified as RPGs. They're adventure games.
Re:Obvious omissions (Score:5, Informative)
Sierra Games was big back in the day, and the Kings Quest series from memory were almost as big as the Leisure Suit Larry series.
Absolutely! And Police Quest, and Space Quest, and Hero's Quest, and Codename Iceman ...
Which are all great ADVENTURE games
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Sierra Games was big back in the day, and the Kings Quest series from memory were almost as big as the Leisure Suit Larry series.
Absolutely! And Police Quest, and Space Quest, and Hero's Quest, and Codename Iceman ...
Which are all great ADVENTURE games
What?!?! Leisure Suit Larry wasn't an RPG? I think I may have wasted my life.....
Pool of Radience was so good (Score:3, Informative)
Between Pool of Radience/Wasteland/Final Fantasy 1 and Legacy of the Ancients, I learned a lot about where game design can bring you in terms of successful systems.
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I used to hire Heroes (level 4 NPC mercenaries), take them out into the slums, and at the end of a random enounter, put them under with a Sleep spell, murder them while they napped, and hock their magic weapons (after my characters were all decked out of course). Got me up the first few levels really quickly (lots of XP for a level 4 kill at level 1) and a decent chunk of change.
And my Lawful Good characters didn't even care :P
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Reminds me of Liberation Captive 2 on the Amiga. Normally killing people and stealing their stuff would get you in trouble, but if you just sandwiched them in a doorway and kept pressing the door close button they would get crushed to death without your party being blamed.
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Temple of Elemental Evil (Score:4, Interesting)
TOEE is still going strong. For a game that's still closed source, the amount of fixing and extending that has gone on is incredible.
http://www.co8.org/forum/index.php [co8.org]
It's based on core D&D 3.5, although lacks prestige classes and a few things are broken.
There was a discussion somewhere about why TOEE and Jagged Alliance are better than Dragon Age/2/Origins. One of the games' designers said that it's all about turns -- without them there's no proper rhythm.
The graphics are decent in TOEE too.
The new Jagged Alliance might get fixed up yet. The new XCOM might have awesome turn-based combat.
Temple of Apshai? (Score:5, Informative)
Has everyone forgotten this classic?
As a note, Wizardry 1 was really awesome - it was hours and hours and hours of fun. Trebor and Werdna ruled!
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I loved Temple of Apshai and also the sequel, Hellfire Warrior.
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Temple of Apshai is a FABULOUS game. I spent many hours (playing and waiting for it load on the cassette player) on this game on my VIC-20. I even had to go out and buy the 16K expansion module to run it!
It seems so long ago now :(
D&D (Score:2)
Pool of radiance, Something like 15-20 disks
ADVENTURE (Score:3, Informative)
That is all.
Of all the games mentioned, what's missing? (Score:4, Informative)
NETHACK! Classic, genre-defining game. Unbelievably funny as well (where else do you get to write a spell with a magic marker(!)?)
and Douglas Adams' BUREAUCRACY. Very difficult even now, but doable.
Re:Of all the games mentioned, what's missing? (Score:5, Informative)
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They messed up though. They said rogue was first on IBM PC which is ludicrous.
Re:Of all the games mentioned, what's missing? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, they mentioned that Rogue on the PC was a port from an older game on Unix systems, and also mentioned that it inspired Nethack and Angband.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that they remembered to include these games, which despite the simple graphics were by far the most advanced games of their day.
However, if you want to get really pedantic, they should have mentioned the even older ADVENTURE.
Re:Of all the games mentioned, what's missing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Utterly brilliant ad -- "We stick our graphics where the sun don't shine" -- http://www.atarimania.com/pubs/hi_res/pub_infocom.jpg [atarimania.com]
You know, it amazes me that whomever ended up owning Sierra Online's IP never officially resurrected their "VGA-era" remakes for iPhone and Android (if not Palm). I personally experienced "Day of the Tentacle" for the first time running under ScummVM on a Treo (we were having a hurricane, I knew we were going to lose power, and loaded it up in preparation so I'd have something to play when the lights went out), and it ran fairly well. If Sierra had any foresight (and whomever ended up inheriting them had any brain), they probably digitized everything at 640x480 & downsampled them from that point anyway (or still have the original art ready to re-digitize at 480x848), and with just a few tweaks, they'd sell like crazy (even people who know they can rip and run them with ScummVM would probably just say 'screw it' and pay a buck or two to save the trouble).
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DOTT was 1993 :) Still, bloody good game. I have a copy - and it works on windows 7!
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I'm reading so much blasphemy in this thread...
Sierra Adventure games mentioned as RPGs.
Lucasarts games confused with Sierra games.
A lot of mentions towards recent games as if they were from that time.
Do not mess with my classics!
Intellivision's AD&D? (Score:2)
I've never been into RPG much; but I remember playing this one. The 3D maze was somewhat cutting edge at the time and it was quite fun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons:_Treasure_of_Tarmin [wikipedia.org]
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Maybe I am old, but they are all computers, I believe the term you referring to would possibly be PC games, though the definition and interpretation of PC can be an issue.
Telengard rocked (Score:2, Informative)
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Ditto, for the c64 version :-)
FRUA (Score:2)
Eye of the beholder (Score:3)
Annoying slideshow... (Score:3)
http://desli.de/3ZZ [desli.de] for one ugly web page with all showing. ;)
An older article on the history of CRPGs (Score:3, Informative)
A series of articles I enjoyed:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132024/the_history_of_computer_.php?print=1 [gamasutra.com]
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130124/the_history_of_computer_.php?print=1 [gamasutra.com]
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/129994/the_history_of_computer_.php?print=1 [gamasutra.com]
Not a top ten list, and pagination defeated by print mode.
why are these franchises dead? (Score:3)
Ultima, Bards Tale, how many of these games are franchises bought by EA which sits on them and doesn't develop the franchise?
The CRPG Addict has better information (Score:5, Informative)
This guy [blogspot.com] is playing through all of the computer RPGs ever released in chronological order and gives them a critical, but fair review from a modern perspective in addition to interesting observations while he's playing them. He's currently at the end of 1988. It's definitely worth reading if you're interested in the history of CRPGs.
Starflight still has not been equaled (Score:3)
a game spanning only two 360K disks that had hundreds of stars and planets, Easter eggs, and a great story, really hasn't been equaled. Even with just two diskettes they were able to know where you had been on planets. You could move the story for the most part at your own pace and some of the conversations with various races were down right hilarious.
Starlight 2 while not as good had some great ideas as well, especially a race which had three distinct personalities.
Sometimes I think that game designers were far more creative early on because the constraints of the systems were so great. They could not hide behind flash effects and graphics.
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Star Control 2 is a fantastic update to the Starflight formula. Been a long time though, we could use another.
Tunnels of Doom on the TI-99/4A (Score:5, Interesting)
One game that isn't given enough credit but was miles ahead of everything for the time was Tunnels of Doom for the TI-99/4A. It was a framework with two games bundled (the simplistic "Pennies and Prizes" and "Quest for the King") that was meant to host further games, though no more were ever released, to my knowledge. it featured:
- 16 colour graphics
- Randomly generated dungeons
- 3D filled vector graphics for exploring, switching to overhead icon-based for combat
- 4 character classes, level progression
- Item upgrades, random effect treasure.
- In-game maps
And this was in *1982*!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnels_of_Doom [wikipedia.org]
http://ridingthecrest.com/edburns/classic-gaming/tunnels/images/ [ridingthecrest.com]
Dungeon Master (Score:4, Interesting)
Even in 2012, I still play the fuck outta Dungeon Master. I fire it up every few years and play it through. I don't know why, but ever since I discovered it in my friend's massive pile of Amiga disks, I was hooked and had to get it for the ST, and later for the PC. But then, I've never even heard of:
- The Faery Tale Adventure
- Starflight
- Pool of Radiance
- Phantasie
And yes, I've been around. I just wasn't a C64 guy, my home was the Atari. And I think it needs to be said: this top 10 list sucks! There is so much repetition in there, too many dungeon crawls that all end up being the same. DM was a real-time one, the others were turn-based, but beyond that distinction there was a staggering amount of repetition across titles. It simply isn't a genre that allowed much in the way of innovation. Walk, fight, loot, solve simple puzzles.
Alternate Reality (Score:5, Insightful)
Dungeons and Dragons (Score:3, Informative)
This will be doomed.... (Score:4, Informative)
to be a small 1 pointer at the bottom of an old thread, but in case anyone is still mining...
In addition to wasteland which was already mentioned (which finally has WL2 coming!!) I think there was another awesome RPGs not mentioned:
Alternate Reality (the dungeon)
This great game has it all - humor, great music, discovery, tons of monsters and items and a neat story. It's really hard, but worth it.
http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/games/details.php%3FID%3D101 [lemon64.com]
and a modern reboot:
http://www.crpgdev.com/ [crpgdev.com]
Alternate Reality (Score:3)
I was disappointed they didn't mention Alternate Reality. It was definitely ground break breaking technology in that game and it had so much potential if the series wasn't killed off.
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This article addresses computer games. Zelda, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are classics, but still console games.
Re:Where are the JRPGs? (Score:5, Informative)
See the title... Computer games.
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Many of the games in the slideshow are a lot more like Shadowgate than Zelda or Dragon Warrior.
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Re:Where are the JRPGs? (Score:5, Informative)
Just because in your mind they faded into obscurity doesn't mean they weren't profoundly influential.
These games by and large predate those JRPGs. Dragon Quest, in fact, was inspired by Wizardry and Ultima. Final Fantasy also sees it's roots in those early RPGs. Both have been extremely influential, particularly amongst JRPGs, but they weren't the originators of the genre.
The Legend of Zelda is more unique because of it's arcade-like elements and reduced emphasis on conventional RPG elements. While it's been influential I don't think it's quite had the direct impact of those other games, particularly within the RPG world.
And the most important aspect of all is that this article is about COMPUTER games.
Re:Where are the JRPGs? (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed, the early Ultima games were fairly big in Japan, and the first Final Fantasy game was an attempt to cash in on that by a company which was taking one more throw of the dice before it expected to go out of business (hence the title).
Acknowledging your point about this being a list of computer games rather than video games - if there was a Japanese RPG that deserved a place on the list, it would be the second Final Fantasy game. That's where you start to see the elements that would define JRPG storytelling (as opposed to the Western equivalent) introduced.
Re:Where are the JRPGs? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why are they showing DOS versions? (Score:4, Informative)
No, they had Dungeon Master there. Also, the fact that they are PCmag may be a clue as to why all their screenshots were taken on PCs.
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cause they can run dos box, its more of a bitch to get workbench for a pal machine to operate in emulation
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zork is not an RPG, its an adventure game zippy
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U7 was released in 1992, that is not the 80's but thanks for your pointless input
READ THE FUCKING TITLE if your confused
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READ THE FUCKING TITLE if your confused
Heh. And somehow we expect people to RTFA.
Re:Some RPGs I remember... (Score:5, Interesting)
Ultima VII was arguably the peak of the Ultima series, which was never again surpassed, and its world modeling puts even many modern RPGs to shame (is there today any RPG out there that will allow you to bake bread, from harvesting the wheat to the finished product?). It was also the beginning of the end, as you say. Ultima VII was produced at around the time Origin was in the process of being acquired by Electronic Arts, and there are many allusions in the game to how none of them were very happy with that state of affairs. The square, sphere, and tetrahedron generators used by the Guardian in his plot to take over Britannia are a rather transparent reference to the old Electronic Arts logo [wikipedia.org] used at the time. Ultima VII also abounds in ways to kill Lord British, more than any other Ultima before or since, and one of the more interesting ways to do it would be to click on a sign above the doors leading to his throne room during a time when he is standing right below it. The sign falls on his head and kills him. This is said to allude to an incident where Richard Garriott was similarly beaned by a falling sign while Origin relocated corporate headquarters at EA's behest (it was not fatal though).
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You tried to RTFA?! You must be new here...
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The author of Dink Smallwood, Seth Robinson IIRC, was the previous author of a very popular BBS game called Legend of the Red Dragon. It was quite RPG like, just text based with primitive (but quite colorful and nice) ANSI graphics.
When you logged in and got the main menu, you would basically "go out into the woods" and attack some randomly spawned monsters, get some money and experience, level up, go back into town and buy weapons and armor. You could go into the Inn and chat up others or write on the wall