EVE Online CSM and Diplomat Killed in Libyan Consulate Attacks 680
New submitter overmoderated writes first with news of an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya. From the article: "The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on their car, a Libyan official said, as they were rushed from a consular building stormed by militants denouncing a U.S.-made film insulting the Prophet Mohammad."
An anonymous reader adds: "Sean Smith, a.k.a. Vile Rat, an EVE Online CSM member, and diplomat for the GoonFleet corporation, was one of the four killed in the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya last night. He was 34. A fundraiser is being organized for his children by the Something Awful forums."
Update: 09/12 21:28 GMT by U L : Ozma from Something Awful mailed in a link to the memorial thread on the SA forums (including details on the memorial fund).
Re:Don't fall for it (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:3, Interesting)
Yah, all Muslims were responsible. Just like all people from Colorado were responsible for the Aurora massacre.
I think this was done by some angry Eve Online players under the guise of a riot.
Re:They're thieves and war criminals (Score:2, Interesting)
The result of his actions were entirely predictable. They were mean spirited and intended to provoke this response as is his calling Islam a cancer. Yet the person is not held responsible in any way, shape or form for their actions even though they lead directly to deaths. . While I respect free speech you can't shout fire in a theatre for good reasons. Why isn't this person being held to the same level of responsibility?
Re:They're thieves and war criminals (Score:4, Interesting)
Even the most sham-elected de facto dictatorship on the planet blows the doors off any theocracy ever, when it comes to "closer to a true democracy".
At some point, the people can appeal to a (human) tyrant, and he might respond to their concerns.
Whether or not it exists, god never responds.
We need to get out of the Middle East/North Africa, until the savages either settle their differences or kill each other off. Screw this "democracy" crap, we've now plunged three "questionable" but relatively secular democracies into borderline (or even outright) sharia over the past decade. We need to quit while only that far behind.
Re:"we are ready to sacrifice millions" (Score:3, Interesting)
Germany: Peaceful nation.
Japan: Peaceful nation.
Yes in fact it did work. We just have to make sure we don't half ass it.
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, you might want to come out of that bubble you've been living in for the past 2000 years or so. Religion has been used as an excuse to commit "evil" acts down throughout the centuries, religious fanatics are currently responsible for the majority of the wars and violence that are occurring all across the globe, today.
I love how you threw in "atheists" with "politicians" as well, as if they're even close to being one in the same. I'm Roman Catholic, practicing, and I can tell you that the atheists that I have met have all been very reasonable people, some of them are out to start an argument but every group of people is bound to have at least one complete prick in them. On the other hand I can safely say that pretty much every politician that I've met has only been out for number one. The only way they're similar is that politicians and atheists are both trying to present a particular point of view, but you could say the same thing about Gandhi and Mussolini if you wanted. It's a completely meaningless comparison.
I _am_ religious and even I can acknowledge the severe and unreversable damage that organized religion is causing across the globe. The question is, why won't _you_ acknowledge it? Why are you trying to displace the blame on other groups rather than just accept the fact that organized religion is destroying this country and many others? I would suspect it's due to your own insecurity on the subject.
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:4, Interesting)
Al Qaeda is shitting their pants that they are increasingly becoming irrelevant to the modern world. Documents from Osama Bin Laden's compound showed that he was concerned that the Islamic world is starting to reject his group's philosophy. If America went into the ME and started slaughtering more Muslims then this would only validate the hardliner's position.
What should America do? Speak quietly and politely and fucking kill all the bad guys (and only the bad guys) using drones and whatever other military methods we have at our disposal.
Re:Will you guys ever learn? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Islamic democracies" work quite nicely. Ask Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia. Those are actually the only Islamic countries I can think of that have an actual functioning democracy. Not sure why you think that they are some backward shithole. Again, the differentiating factor here really seems to be governance, and not religion.
But that's imperialism, and hence not politically correct. Not to mention, insanely expensive - more so than buying AKs for jihadi "freedom fighters" and dropping an occasional JDAM to support their advance.
And that's why it's not done anymore - not because it's not PC, but because it's just so fucking expensive and long. Not to mention that it requires an actual exit strategy with a proper handover. In short, every thing the US as a country doesn't want to do anymore. So we have three options: do the right thing and pay for it, do nothing, or do the cheapest thing that still has a positive ROI. And do remember that doing nothing has always costs associated with it as well.
What exactly was wrong about what I said about Kosovo?
That it was worse now than what would have happened with non-intervention. I'm fully aware of the sorry state of Kosovo right now - and I'm ecstatic that the entire region isn't like that, which is what would have happened with a full-on war.
The best thing that could be the outcome of the Libyan civil war as it actually went was Gaddafi staying in power but having to negotiate with other factions, and therefore the regime becoming less oppressive.
And that would have never happened. That's right up there with Unicorns farting rainbows.
"Hired goons from Africa" was mostly rebel propaganda they've used to justify their genocide against black Libyans.
Actually, Ghaddafi did employ hired goons from Africa. The problem was that black Libyans were regularly assumed to be just hired goons. And since there were far more black Libyans than hired goons.... well, you do the math. And yes, persecution of black Libyans is a problem. I'm not arguing that Libya isn't a significant basket case right now. However, it's a better start than we're getting with Syria, and at least there's the opportunity there for something positive to happen. Syria basically is going to be a basket case for the next decades.
Re:Batshit Crazy? Movie was a cover... (Score:5, Interesting)
The military assault against the US Consulate in Benghazi should not be seen as part of a protest against a low budget film which was insulting Islam â" there were just a few peaceful protesters present at the event. Indeed, there have been no other demonstrations regarding this film in Libya.
We at Quilliam believe the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi was a well planned terrorist attack that would have occurred regardless of the demonstration, to serve another purpose. According to information obtained by Quilliam from foreign sources and from within Benghazi we have reason to believe that the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi came to avenge the death of Abu Yaya al-Libi, al-Qaedaâ(TM)s second in command killed a few months ago.
The reasons for this are as follows:
The weak security environment in Libya including in Benghazi and the failure of the government to project its power outside of the capital have been used as a cover for the attack.
The failure to rebuild the defence and security sector, in an accountable, professional and responsible manner will only further the likelihood of such attacks in the future. Attacks in Benghazi are not new â" the Red Cross has been attacked multiple times in previous months, as have the US consulate and also the UK Ambassador, and such security lapses encourage attacks. The International Community must take the challenge of not allowing extremist elements to hijack the Arab Uprisings very seriously, by renewing their focus on civic and governance responses to check the efforts of Islamist extremists attempting to exploit the inevitable security vacuum.
Noman Benotman, President of Quilliam says:
âoeThese are acts committed by uncontrollable jihadist groups. We hope Libya will seize this opportunity to revive its policy of Disarmament, Demobilisation and Re-integration (DDR) in order to facilitate an end to the spread of such attacks, with the help of the International Community. We hope that the International Community, including NATO member states and especially the US, will continue their excellent work in Libya which began with the overthrow of the dictator Gaddafi after 42 years in power.â
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:5, Interesting)
In some ways, yes, it is. The mujaheddin in Afghanistan were groups of groups. Some of them were friendly to the West, some at least as hostile as the Soviet hardliners. Their unifying principle was the fight against the Soviets. Eventually, they turned on each other until the Taliban came along, then they chose sides again.
Libya is similar, though with a population that is generally more metropolitan. Afghanistan's people are generally insular, focused on very local or regional activity. Libya has long been used to working with the world and as such, have a better grasp of how important it is to settle down.
The problem is that Gaddafi never trusted his military and so kept it weak so that it couldn't mount a coup, and the remaining institutions are similarly weak for the moment. He relied on family members running hand-picked units and on mercenary groups from around Africa such as the Tuaregs that have caused problems recently in Niger, Mali, and Algeria. These groups now have nothing to do but fight and/or sell weapons to try to earn or steal money. A few long-oppressed groups and former Gaddafi loyalists have also armed up, and groups like the Salafists that dream of instituting worldwide Sharia are doing the same. The Salafists are causing their own set of problems in Tunisia and Egypt as well, and have turned up in Syria where the Free Syrian Army (or the group formerly known as such) is trying to figure out how to distance them without alienating them.
Most of Libya is happy and wants a quiet life with a return of international trade. Until national institutions like the military and police are strengthened appropriately, there will be groups that do as they will and cause mayhem and death. This has been happening for the last year, but it's only now that the US has been caught up in it.
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:5, Interesting)
You can say anything you want about Jesus and no Christian will kill you.
"But since our discourse has now turned to the subject of blasphemy, I desire to ask one favor of you all, in return for this my address, and speaking with you; which is, that you will correct on my behalf the blasphemers of this city. And should you hear any one in the public thoroughfare, or in the midst of the forum, blaspheming God; go up to him and rebuke him; and should it be necessary to inflict blows, spare not to do so. Smite him on the face; strike his mouth; sanctify your hand with the blow, and if any should accuse you, and drag you to the place of justice, follow them thither; and when the judge on the bench calls you to account, say boldly that the man blasphemed the King of angels! For if it be necessary to punish those who blaspheme an earthly king, much more so those who insult God."
- St John Chrysostom, one of the Church Fathers, and recognized as a saint by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and many Lutherans.
Christian attacked people for a film (Score:3, Interesting)
That said the fundemmentalist silamist can rot.
Re:Batshit Crazy! (Score:4, Interesting)
Assuming that A) Mohammed was a real person, and B) he was, by period standards, a pedophile, which was my point.
Period standards nothing. If you fuck a 9 year old you're a pedophile.
One has to wonder how "Christians" would react had someone made a movie implying that Jesus was a pedo...
It's hardly a fair comparison, as there are no sources that believers claim to be true that would imply that Jesus was a pedophile. Aisha's deflowering at the age of 9 is reported in the Hadith, which believers have to accept as true. Any follower of Islam must reconcile his pedophilia with their belief that Muhammed was a good man, a problem that does not affect Christianity.