Valve Blog Announces Dates For Steam Linux External Beta 183
An anonymous reader writes "In the third post to the new Valve Linux Blog, the Linux team has announced that starting next week they will begin their internal beta, with an external beta of 1000 users to begin mid 'some time in October.' There will be an external beta sign up page made available 'soon' according to the blog."
I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Informative)
but as someone who ditched Windows back when Win2K was still new I'm not really up on it.
Is it closer to an iTunes like store, an Apt like installer, or is it some sort virtual machine running a standardized program, like Flash, Java, or a console emulator?
Also - how does it compare to something like the Ubuntu Software Center I used to install Torch Light and the rest of the recent Humble Bundle stuff.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Informative)
More like iTunes, plus the usual social additions expected of gaming communities (IM, chat, voice, achievements, etc.).
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Informative)
It's like an itunes store/software center, but for games. You can talk with your friends, even if you're both in games (shift+tab iirc will bring up an overlay in any game). Also they're porting the source engine (iiuc), so we'll (probably) have games like L4D2 and maybe even Half Life 2. More info on their blog: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/
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So obviously if there's a background chat some component of Steam is still running after the game is started, so it's less like Apt. I'll look at the source engine thing later, I'm at work now, they block all links to game companies, I'm half surprised games.slashdot.org isn't blocked just for the URL.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Interesting)
Slashdot is miraculously blessed by IT departments. In one of the offices I work at, their connection is so limited it's untrue - even stuff like the Community Recycling Network (crn.org.uk) is blocked, and the block page says "Category: None" so it may even be a whitelist.
Yet all the slashdot subdomains and the main one are completely unfiltered - along with, suspiciously enough, things like The Register and xkcd. So it's geeks policing geeks I guess. I get a free pass!
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It is blocked at my workplace (because it has "games" in the hostname), but any games.slashdot.org slashdot can also be accessed from slashdot.org.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Informative)
Think of a webkit-based instant messaging client and app store mixed together. It keeps your games up-to-date, has really good sale prices, and makes it stupidly easy to play games with friends.
The downside is that there is DRM (many games have to be launched through steam to play them) and it's kind of a pain to play games when offline.
In the past Valve has said that if they were to ever dissolve then they'll release a DRM removal tool.
You forgot the $ and DRM (Score:5, Informative)
Mostly true, but Steam is also a storefront wrapping a DRM system. Some Steam games can run apparently without Steam running and signed in (none of the ones I've tried, though), but many can't. To be fair, that's sometimes because they use Steam for in-game features (multiplayer matchmaking and such) but often it's just for the DRM. There are almost no free (as in cost, much less freedom) games on Steam, so it's not much like a typical Linux package management repo in that way either.
As DRM schemes go, Steam isn't that bad; it can run in an offline mode for up to a month or so without connecting to Valve's servers, and it quite handily avoids the whole "You have used up your limit of X activations" BS. It brings a host of other problems, though, like the inability for two people to play two completely different games at the same time if they were purchased on the same account. It also has the usual "you don't really own it" BS of DRMed media, such as the complete inability to resell any game.
Re:You forgot the $ and DRM (Score:4, Informative)
OTOH, traditionally I can buy a game at the tore for 50 bucks. Later resell it for 5 bucks. On steam, I can usually purchase that same game for 25 bucks. So resell doesn't really bother me. Gifting games I have played needs to be allowed.
Bu yes, they need a 'home server' option that lets anyone in your home play any game as long as someone else isn't playing it.
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It brings a host of other problems, though, like the inability for two people to play two completely different games at the same time if they were purchased on the same account.
Actually, you can use offline mode to get around this, it's actually even possible to play some games multiplayer over LAN with two computers on the same account... not that I've ever done that.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Insightful)
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In my very limited use, it's closest to software center with a non apt back-end (so software center+aptish type system).
It tracks purchases, allow downloads to multiple computers of purchases (like software center or iTunes), tracks the installs (I'm curious weather the Linux version will include it's own tracking, or use it's own installer/remover, commercial software appears to be 50/50 on that in generall).
It also has some social aspects, much like Xbox Live.
I should include that I really mean dpkg for m
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Desure is an excelent comparison - though without the bonus DRM.
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DRM is completely the choice of the publisher of the game being sold. Steam is not required for all applications to run.
Plus there's also an extensive "overlay" that can be brought up inside games. Sort of like dashboards on consoles (but much better since it's a PC).
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Depends on the game, and the publisher. I can run Company of Heroes directly without having to go through steam if I wanted to.
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Steam recently added the ability to have multiple folder locations for the game installs (maybe it's because I'm opted in for beta clients if you don't see it under settings) so you can specify what hard drive or folder you'd like to install your library of games to.
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Its iTunes for borrowing software. You pay them believing you are buying something, but deep down in the eula lies a nice "licensed to use" line.
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Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Insightful)
The simplest way to explain Steam is that it is DRM done right. If you pirate the game, you get the game for free. But, you lose auto updates, chat client, steam trading, access to servers with anti-cheat features, etc.
It deters piracy by adding value to legally purchased games.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure what "DRM done right" would be, DRM is after all a limitation on what you can do with your purchased media. For me however, any form of DRM that requires me to ask permission before I can read or watch or play with my stuff, that will never fall into the "acceptable DRM" category.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Interesting)
Every game purchased through Steam requires online activation, every single one
You mean the online store, that you're using, while online, to purchase games, online, requires you to be online to install your game, that you download while online? Say it ain't so.
The Steam DRM is optional, btw, entirely up to the publisher, which is why a lot of older games don't have it and can be run without Steam once they're installed.
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You aren't giving up anything. DRM games come with DRM; regardless of the delivery. IT's no different. well A little different in the Steam isn't as intrusive, and the games can be played without a connection, unlike many off the shelf games.
Do you even remember pre-steam DRM schemes?
Don't like DRM? take it up with the publisher.
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Do you even remember pre-steam DRM schemes?
Yes I do, that's why I tried to make a point of calling out activation rather than DRM as a whole. Obviously DRM is never a good thing, but something like a disc check, while annoying, does allow you to retain real ownership over your media. I can resell it if I like, lend it to a friend if I like, install it whenever I like without an internet connection and without asking permission.
You are correct that the delivery method for a game which requires activation isn't really important. I'm not trying to be
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I'm baffled by this part " even when iTunes was DRMing their media". You do realize that most content on iTunes is still DRM'd. Just because iTunes plus and iTunes Match fixed most of the music, doesn't mean that video, apps and books are DRM free.
As for Steam, it entirely depends on the publisher how bad the DRM is. The upside is that I can install steam on my PC and Mac and play games I bought originally for Windows on my Mac and vice versa. It's a great way to test performance differences between the
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I'm baffled by this part " even when iTunes was DRMing their media". You do realize that most content on iTunes is still DRM'd. Just because iTunes plus and iTunes Match fixed most of the music, doesn't mean that video, apps and books are DRM free.
My mistake. I think of iTunes as a music store, I guess that's not really true any more.
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When you're BUYING a game online and DOWNLOADING a game online, having to ACTIVATE the game online is not an impossible burden.
Online activation, for any game using only Steam as DRM (many games use some other DRM as well, and this is noted on the store page), is necessary only one time after updating. Download a game, run it once, then permanently set Steam into offline mode. It will never try to authenticate again. It will also not automatically update, chat will be disabled, and last time I tried the ser
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PS: I challenge you to find retail games that don't have similar requirements. You'd be surprised how hard this is.
I would not be surprised, I am very familiar with how difficult that is. I get virtually everything from Good Old Games and the Humble Indie Bundle these days, but for the record here are a few good retail games that are DRM free (and somewhat recent):
Prince of Persia (the newer reboot)
Trine
Defense Grid
Rayman Origins
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I downloaded the batman AC demo and loved it. It didn't use games for windows. I thought all DRM was done by steam. In a moment of weakness I bought the full version (costing more than the store) expecting to be able to play it in 10/15mins as I have
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:4, Interesting)
I hate having to store the media, and especially to go through a set of discs when setting up a new machine. On Steam you just click the games you want to install and away it goes. It's far superior to the crap we had to go through in the "olden days" IMO. If you have a slow net connection you can also backup and import from your old computer. That's still a little annoying, but it does mean only one transfer rather than again going through all your disks.
When the developers add extra layers of DRM on top of Steam it pisses me off too. I don't see the point in it..
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But I have a big box of games that I like to go back to when I upgrade my machine (take a bit of effort to get the old ones working - I enjoy that too?).
I still live the "olden days" as some of those games are still really good.
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Well I got my first PC in 1998, and a lot of the PC games I loved back then are available on Steam anyway - Half-Life and Deus Ex being the main ones. Before that it was Amiga and Playstation games. I can get the Amiga ROMs online so that's pretty easy too, though still not quite as convenient as Steam in all cases :)
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"often they cost more than the store"
seriously? Most games I buy on steam are a couple of month old, and half the price then the store. When three is a game I want to play on release, it's usually the same price as the store..sometime a little cheaper.
Here in the US, anyways.
"But I feel dirty when I see the DRM on my machine."
as opposed to all the other DRM that is already on your machine?
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If you have a cd and a serial, they can reconnect you to your account. You have hard proof of ownership which they will use to restore your account if you ask.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Interesting)
The simplest way to explain Steam is that it is DRM done right.
Speaking as somebody who recently lived in a hotel with shitty wifi for 6 months, I have to chuckle at that statement. It stopped being "DRM done right" when it decided it wouldn't let me play my single-player game while the wifi was down.
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with most of your post, especially the point about it being a deterrent to piracy, but really it's not 'right' it's just courteously applied lube.
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Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:5, Informative)
There was a long-standing bug in Steam which made offline mode unreliable for anyone who shuts their computer down regularly.
When you'd shut down Windows, Steam would apparently just sit around and fail to heed the warnings the OS gave it until it would be forced to close. This made it not properly save the offline mode token, so if the next time you launched the client was without an internet connection, you were SOL.
If you closed Steam before shutting down it worked fine, but since this wasn't common knowledge and you don't usually plan internet outages at the consumer level as far as an average user cares it didn't work.
The actual cause of the bug was identified publicly by a user a few months ago and shortly followed by a Steam client update which resolved the problem. At this point offline mode works exactly as expected.
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>If you closed Steam before shutting down it worked fine
Who doesn't shut steam down after they are done playing? And who doesn't close all programs before shutting down? What the hell people.
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Steam doesn't require online access to play games once they've been downloaded.
Yes, it does. It re-authenticates every couple of weeks or so. Trust me, I gnashed my teeth quite a bit during that hotel stay.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:4, Interesting)
Bullcrap.
Just now I wanted to play some Darksiders II, so I launch Steam.
After sitting at 'Connecting to Steam account' for a while, I get another window that says 'Could not connect to Steam network. This could be due to a problem with your internet connection, or with the Steam network.'
It does not go into offline mode.
It won't let me play my game.
THANKS, STEAM.
Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is - (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yeah, well, that's the theory.
If Steam can see an internet connection but can't get to the Steam servers, it won't go into offline mode. It'll try and fail to connect, and roll over and die.
If there's no connection to the internet -at all- it'll -usually-, but not always, ask me if I want offline mode.
What the damned thing needs is a command line 'start in offline mode' switch. Or a shortcut for it. Or something.
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Please haul your sarcasm out of your butt and actually read the link there
The one you told me to.
The very first thing that link tells you to do is start Steam in online mode.
How the flaming hell am I supposed to do that if Steam won't start?
(Never mind that indeed, all my games are up to date and Steam does indeed save my login credentials so in theory, offline mode should work. But it's not.)
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Are you stupid, or just a liar?
And I speak was someone who has played steam games where the is no internet connect.
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It also prevents you from playing if somebody else is using your account, or if your Steam client can't authenticate (although if creds are stored locally, offline mode will work for up to a month). It prevents you from returning or reselling the game or even gifting the game (once you've installed it, it's tied to your account forever). Games require that the Steam client be running, which imposes a non-trivial RAM and CPU overhead (not huge, but enough to notice on my slightly aging gaming box).
DRM done r
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Well, you technically could use the install hyperlink: steam://install/[some game id] but you'd need to know that ID and have a browser set up to know what to do with it.
1000? (Score:5, Funny)
"an external beta of 1000 users"
Wow, they are rolling it out to the entire Linux gaming community at once with plenty of spots to spare.
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Hardly. The german tinkerer community alone would gobble that down in no time.
There are way more linux users than you realize Mr AC.
Re:1000? (Score:5, Funny)
And I hear a few of them even have a sense of humor!
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The German tinkerer community is known for its sense of humour.
Re:1000? (Score:5, Funny)
Do any of them have a sense of humor?
$ man woman
No manual entry for woman
No, not at all.
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Thats on my todo list actually. But I use both, though the more i use Gentoo, the harder it is to really enjoy FreeBSD like I used to when I used it as my main desktop oh so many years ago.
Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"? (Score:5, Funny)
Heart skipped a beat there.
Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"? (Score:5, Funny)
"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...
Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"? (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who's used Linux nearly exclusively for more than a decade I'll proudly say:
Most of it. The better stuff anyways.
There's a lot of Alpha and cobbled together feeling stuff on there also. Still, when I go to work and use my Windows 7 machine I look at it and wonder how my coworkers could possibly go home and continue using that crap.
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I bet you're a blast at company parties.
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Well, I'd prefer a dullard at a company party - who you can always liven up by coaxing them out of their shell - than someone with seemingly closed minded arrogance (and still stuck in a high school "popularity matters more than character" mindset).
Hopefully my reading of your post was wrong and it wasn't snarky, just some attempt at levity.
Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a real tech.
They schedule company parties during my work shift and I don't get to go.
Of course the apartment party I was sort of the hero, they didn't expect a fat guy to beat that many skinny people in limbo.
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"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...
Only if it's made by Google, otherwise it's an alpha branded as a release candidate.
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Powered by Google?
You won't have to use Steam to benefit from this. (Score:5, Insightful)
The intent is more to get Steam users off Windows and onto Linux than to take advantage of the current Linux market.
With Windows 8 announcing an app shop and scaring the hell out of small time developers we could finally see a real push for Linux adoption.
Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi (Score:4, Interesting)
Another way you won't have to use Steam to benefit from this: The Steam development effort has already brought a lot of driver patches along, improving mostly 3D performance.
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No, the intent is to control their own software stack as to not be dependant. And when its finished they can sell us the Steam console, which strangely nobody sees coming.
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Portal 2, CS:GO and Dota 2 are all recent Valve games.
More importantly, Valve is very much a major player in publishing - these days more so than in developing. They likely can keep their developing arm going on longer than the lifespans of current staff with the profits from their publishing arm.
The game library for Steam Linux will likely be Valve's titles and a wide library of 3rd party independent titles at first. Certainly nowhere near Steam Windows, but still nothing to sneeze at.
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I think you're correct that OS X users are more likely to shell out cash.
However, Linux gamers have consistently paid more for Humble Bundles than those using other OSes; the total amount compared to Windows, anyway, is still relatively small. I'm curious to see how this plays out. As others have suggested, this may be a path to a non-Windows set-top box and store.
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So that's why Steam went with OSX after Apple's own app store was already in place? Your theory goes against the evidence.
Steam for OSX was announced on March 8, 2010 and released on May 12, 2010. The Mac App Store was announced on October 20, 2010 and released on January 6, 2011. So Apple's App Store was released several months later unless you are counting the iOS Store as something Valve would have been concerned about.
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"Dates"? (Score:2)
"Next week"? "Some time in October"?
This is some new and exciting definition of the word "dates" which I have not yet encountered.
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yes
if this is viable maybe no more windows for me (Score:5, Interesting)
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Once the engines are ported, the games should be available with just a few commands on the part of the developers (assuming the programmers knew their head from their ass in the first place [yes, I'm an optimist that way]).
Of course, porting the engines is no mean feat...
Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me (Score:4, Interesting)
> Of course, porting the engines is no mean feat...
There are plenty of cross platform engines out there. All it really requires is a commitment to testing on more than one platform by the platform licensee. Hopefully with Valve and Apple pushing the envelope of what is possible (on all sorts of platforms, eg. gaming on your iPad/Android tablet etc) then developers will see that is more profitable to write a cross-platform (including Windows) game than a Windows-only game as they've been suckered in to in the past.
The other big factor is OpenGL support and usage. OpenGL was ahead of DirectX for a long time, then slipped behind in features, and is now pretty much ahead (more platforms, almost all features work on all platforms provided the graphics hardware supports it, unlike DirectX's strategy of requiring OS upgrades to get new features [probably designed that way as a revenue spinner]). Now it is DirectX platforms that are the minority and OpenGL is *everywhere*: its on Windows, Apple, Linux, iOS, Android, commercial embedded devices [eg. avionics], the PS/3. There is only one place that OpenGL isn't, and that is the XBox 360 [this is my design from Microsoft]. Kinda makes you think, why bother with DirectX when the only exclusive platform for that is the XBox 360 when by choosing OpenGL I can run my shaders everywhere else [which is exactly the conclusion I came to when designing my game - which is cross-platform and OpenGL shader based].
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This is what we were promised in the OS X community when Steam launched on Mac OS X, and for the most part it has been a success - especially for Valve titles and smaller indie titles. Most of the big publishers are sticking to Windows though - likely because they're not using Source and the engines they do use have separate licensing for different platforms (or worse, only available on Windows).
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Once the engines are ported, the games should be available with just a few commands on the part of the developers
Should be, but not always are.
For example: Valve's Source engine was ported over to OS X. Valve ported over all of their Source titles. But they have also licensed it to other developers, and to my knowledge not a single one of them actually ported their game (going off "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic", "SiN Episodes: Emergence", "Zeno Clash" and "Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines"). Now, some of them have excuses (the SiN Episodes series was canned after one episode, and VTMB nearly predates HL2 and wou
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Most, yes, although they may offer some games (where it works really well) under a WINE wrapper (I believe they use Dosbox for some Dos games in a similar fashion). Some will, however, be native (Valve titles mostly, at the beginning anyways).
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They could stand to be a LOT more proactive with these older games. For instance I got the original Fallout and... yeah, its useless out of the box on steam. Yes I love staring at the 256colour rainbow shotgun effect over half the game on my Windows 7 gaming box.
Linux != Ubuntu (Score:2)
Support for Ubuntu 12.04 and above
It's not really "Linux support", but rather Ubuntu support. A huge disappointment for long-time *nix users/power-users, who, generally, don't use Ubuntu.
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long-time *nix users/power-users, who, generally, don't use Ubuntu.
Is that conjecture/anecdata, or verifiable fact?
(Not being snarky, genuinely curious.)
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Conjecture. Many long time users I know use Ubuntu because it gets so many things right, has a huge q&a base when things don't go right, and generally is easy to use and change. There are plenty of reasons not to use Ubuntu, philosophical, familiarity with other systems, etc. But it certainly isn't a "dumb"version of Linux or anything. And since it feels very much Ike debian, being debian + stuff, plenty of old timers -- like me -- made the switch and are happily using it.
As an oldtimer using Ubuntu myself, I largely agree. It largely Just Works and gets the job done, and these days that's what I want out of an OS. And yes, the Debian-esqueness makes it very comfortable.
Re:Linux != Ubuntu (Score:4, Informative)
They're doing the initial beta (and possibly initial release) only under Ubuntu, to limit the number of complications.
Why Ubuntu? There are a couple of reasons for that. First, we’re just starting development and working with a single distribution is critical when you are experimenting, as we are. It reduces the variability of the testing space and makes early iteration easier and faster. Secondly, Ubuntu is a popular distribution and has recognition with the general gaming and developer communities. This doesn’t mean that Ubuntu will be the only distribution we support. Based on the success of our efforts around Ubuntu, we will look at supporting other distributions in the future.
Source: Valve Linux blog, entry "Steam'd Penguins", posted July 16 2012 [valvesoftware.com]
And all that means, really, is that they currently only "support" it on Ubuntu - it will quite likely run fine on other distros, although probably with some work involved. And, if it's a reasonable success, they may make it supported on other major distros.
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Will WINE be involved? (Score:2)
Whilst I can see that Valve will port their games natively to Linux, how many other big dev houses will do the same by the time Steam goes gold on Linux? Without other houses involved, Steam surely will fail on Linux, so could some sort of WINE layer help matters? Valve devs would be ideally placed to fix issues with non-Valve games under WINE and once a game passes testing under Linux+WINE+Windows version of game, it could be added to the Steam store on Linux (though each game update would have to be re-te
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Well, Steam + TF2 already works in wine, with a few quirks. I'd expect them to start from there and slowly spread to other major distributions starting with Ubuntu, there's only so much you'd want to support this early in the game.
Although I'd wish Value would go Linux-native (I'm not sure if they have confirmed this), it would indeed take much more time to port each non-Source third-party game and having Valve actively supporting wine would mean more improvements for wine in general. It would be a big step
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seeings as that has become industry standard while I don't care for it in eula I will tolerate it in exchange for the games it provides. Besides has that clause been tested in a real court case yet? I doubt that a would stand up as you can't sign away your legal rights.
Re:Mandatory Binding Arbitration (Score:5, Funny)
This would be clicking away your rights, that is totally different, and probably patentable.
Re:I would just like to say (Score:5, Funny)
Wine doesn't do mouse correctly (Score:3)
The main issue with running under WINE is that they have to use proprietary code for the mouse and input drivers.
What this means is that the mouse doesn't work in 80%+ of games. It's a known issue and they refuse to deal with it, despite having had a working solution when they were still offering their commercial product. They pontificate on their forums about how they support free software only and take the usual neckbeard cave-dweller *IX hard-line about "no commercial anything anywhere, any time." All
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) [wikipedia.org]
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I've been a bit more lucky. I had Civ V working fine under Wine in early '10 until I decided I needed to 'fix' something and could never get it working again. So I got Crossover Games (now all combined as Crossover XI - shows up as .cxoffice) and it works fine but only with DirectX9. Ditto with Silent Hunter IV. The games I have from Frictional I got either from Humble Bundles or Steam and they play well, natively, or via Steam in Crossover.
Have had two video cards, an 8800GT, now a 460GTX, and two proc
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It depends. Some games are going to be trivial, some are going to be neigh impossible to port. An example of a trivial port will be most of the old games that were originally made for DOS. Steam plays those games by simply running an instance of dosbox, so these should be able to be ported by doing the same method in Linux. Some of the games already have linux versions (see the humble indie bundle games a good chunk of them are also on steam)