Navy Seals Disciplined For Revealing Secrets As Consultants On Video Game 204
Hugh Pickens writes "CBS reports that seven active duty members of SEAL Team Six, best known for killing Osama bin Laden, have been disciplined for revealing secrets working as paid consultants on a video game, Medal of Honor: Warfighter. The game does not recreate the bin Laden raid, but it does portray realistic missions, such as an attack on a pirates' den in Somalia. Electronic Arts boasts that real commandos, both active duty and retired, help make its games as realistic as possible. EA says Medal of Honor Warfighter was 'written by actual U.S. Tier 1 Operators while deployed overseas,' and that it 'features a dotted line to real world events and provides players a view into globally recognized threats and situations letting them experience the action as it might have unfolded.' It is unclear what secrets members of SEAL Team Six gave away, but while serving as consultants for the game, they used classified material which had been given to them by the Navy and also violated the unwritten code that SEALs are silent warriors who shun the spotlight. 'We do not tolerate deviations from the policies that govern who we are and what we do as Sailors in the United States Navy,' says Deputy Commander of Naval Special Warfare, Rear Admiral Garry Bonelli. 'The non-judicial punishment decisions made today send a clear message throughout our Force that we are and will be held to a high standard of accountability.'"
Remember only Generals can Consult. (Score:2, Interesting)
It is not about secrets.
Good! (Score:4, Insightful)
How on earth can the military staff haemorage their IP for the sake of an ef'fing book deal. There is too much public information on public deals that put military operations and lives at risk. The whole point of military superiority is based on an advantage of forces as a result of numbers, skill, training, tactics, operations, etc. I know that, as a geek, I love reading aircraft, lazer, and weapons development trials and developments but c'mon. All the US people are doing is destroying its own capability.
Now I understand how freedom of information protects against poor weapons systems, faulty weapons systems, bad quality, abuse of authority, etc. I don't have all the answers but what I do know is stupid - leaking you current tactics manuals and giving away all of your secrets. Might as well open-source the military.
FFS
Re:Good! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Considering that many Special Forces unit soldiers have advanced college degrees, or the education equivalent to one, id question your 'source' if information. The average enlisted solider might not always be that smart, but the government doesn't hand someone above an E-5 access to millions of dollars worth of equipment if they are as dumb as a tool bag.
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While I agree in principle, I'm having difficulty with 7-8 elite military coming to the uniform conclusion that what they were doing was acceptable.
If they broke rules/regs then they get what they deserve. If it wasn't reasonably clear and defined however, then trashing their careers is a harsh way to clarify something for others. (And I know the military is harsh for a reason.)
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If they broke rules/regs then they get what they deserve.
from the article I saw earlier this morning, they're getting written reprimands and half their pay docked for two months. Not too harsh for what they did, their careers should be ok.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it really matter? Half the stuff that seems to come out as tactics eventually is just plain old common sense.
Most of the militaries secrets are in intel and technology, and it doesn't seem that they've really leaked anything much there as the issuse seems to be about tactics.
Having played the game, I don't think that matters anyway as the AI usually just runs in like a headless chicken and takes a thousand bullets because it's invulnerable. There was one mission based in the Philippines that said it was based on actual events, but again I don't know what of value could really have been given away. That US special forces may have been involved in something in the Philippines once? No shit. That's groundbreaking information.
I recall when the "tactics" for the SAS raid on the Iranian embassy were eventually released and everyone made a big fuss, the tactic in question was sticking a flashlight on the gun, firing from the hip and using the centre of the torch as your aiming point whilst doing so. Hardly something top secret that no one else was ever going to think of.
As I say it's our intel, our training, our combat experience, and our technology that makes special forces what they are. That's something you either can replicate or you can't, no amount of computer games or books are going to make up for it.
Honestly, I think the punishments are more about maintaining military style discipline than because they released anything of any value yet one of the things that makes special forces special is because they recruit people smart enough to think for themselves and who don't need the baby style treatment of run of the mill grunts to ensure they do what needs to be done.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
it may seem like common sense, but that's after years of work creating it, during which some men probably died before it was figured out. Hell we make revisions to tactics after nearly every big engagement. It's called an After Action Report, and everything, every little stinking thing, is written about and analyzed.
And while it may seem common sense to us, it frequently isnt to many combatants around the world. the majority of the taliban and iraqi insurgents have no training whatsoever, and those that do have very little discipline. many many of them emply spray and pray tactics, full of bravado and give em hell, but little thought, little planning, no tactical sensibilities, etc.
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The reason why many insurgents use the spray and pray tactics is because they do not have the equipment, training, and skills to act strategically. The seals are picked for their abilities and train in tight units for years. It has nothing to do with understanding techniques or tactics. For example, I may know how to play football and I many know the strategy, but there is no way that me and my buddies could beat a professional NFL team (or a college team, for that matter). It's the training and skills
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"it may seem like common sense, but that's after years of work creating it, during which some men probably died before it was figured out."
Actually, as the SAS guys involved themselves told it, they came up with the idea only hours before they stormed the place.
"And while it may seem common sense to us, it frequently isnt to many combatants around the world. the majority of the taliban and iraqi insurgents have no training whatsoever, and those that do have very little discipline. many many of them emply sp
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You really sure "flashlight on gun" was considered a secret tactic?
See: http://ducttape.glenmurphy.com/ [glenmurphy.com]
More reasons to not join the military.
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I recall when the "tactics" for the SAS raid on the Iranian embassy
they're up to using SAS drives, now, in iran? its about time they finally upgraded those old IDE's.
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I recall when the "tactics" for the SAS raid on the Iranian embassy were eventually released and everyone made a big fuss, the tactic in question was sticking a flashlight on the gun, firing from the hip and using the centre of the torch as your aiming point whilst doing so. Hardly something top secret that no one else was ever going to think of.
No kidding. I do that exact thing to bore-sight when I don't have a laser or something else I can use instead. I didn't need anyone to help me figure that part out...
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The thing is about common sense is that it's something you gain from experience. (How many things seem like common sense to you now, and yet you didn't know those things n years ago?)
Experience is an asset and communication is commodization of that asset. When we're working together building a better world and trying to get happier, that's fucking awesome, and all hail the information revolution.
When you're in zero-sum with an adversary, you want them to be denied that asset. You want one of their earlie
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You can say that all you want... but you'd be wrong. You say that tactics "seem like plain common sense", but you have the advantage of 20/20 hindsight (but don't seem to realize that).
A tactic doesn't need to be something nobody else could think up - it just
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No, see this guy's post for example:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3240925&cid=41932109 [slashdot.org]
It sounds like he doesn't have that military training in the SAS, that he hadn't heard of those tactics, that he hadn't figured it out on hindsight.
He'd figured out because it's obvious - because it's common sense.
The whole point is that if it's common sense then it's not something you'd need to learn through hindsight, it's something that is the most sensible rational option given what you have at your disposal.
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Some of the cleverest tactics are the most subtle... Just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.
But I rather suspect you don't see them because you're a clueless git.
Classification System (Score:3)
Lots of uninformed babble on /. (as usual). Nobody seems to ask the question of, "How does some information become classified?" Hint: it isn't just somebody says, "This should be a secret." Typically there is a organization document called the "Classification Guide" that provides (of all things) guidance on what sorts of information should be considered classified. Generally, these are derived from some higher organizaton's document that is more general with some unlucky person getting stuck with the jo
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I worked for a defense contractor so we saw very little of "a" but lots of "b". The problem was that classifying everything made it that much harder to get anything done so there was always a push to read the classification guide as narrowly as possible from the trenches and a push from management to keep everything classified so no one made any mistakes and released something that they shouldn't. We became very adept at finding unclassified sources so we could keep the development unclassified and only
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I'm not sure what the point of that would be. I certainly don't have the training or level of fitness they do.
It doesn't mean I don't have an equivalent or better level of common sense though.
They'd win on their physical fitness and training alone, regardless of that.
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I think a lot of the US military might has to do with two very basic facts and that's hardly related to military secrets or so called cutting-edge stuff. First of all, the US still has the largest economy in the world by far, and spends 25% of the Federal Budget in the military. With so much money poured into the industry, it is only expected that you would have all sorts of military gadgets, aircraft and vehicles. Pretty much like the Soviets did and ended up destroying their economy in the process.
Second,
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It's a racket.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Informative)
Military pay is _much_ better than it used to be. Retirement is still amazingly good (until the bean counters decide it should become some sort of 401K).
What drugs are you taking? I was discharged (honorably, mind you) recently and I was getting paid shit. Let me preemptively negate the mitigating arguements to justify the green weenie argument of the pay issue: ~ Free housing: I lived in on-base housing that were either condemned and then re-fitted to shove extra soldiers in, or barracks that when reviewed, the base was allocated several million dollars to build new barracks.There's a reason some of us preferred the field. ~ Free healthcare: Performed by people who are fresh out of school and aren't experienced enough to be jaded. Or performed by people who have the mentality that once they put in their eight hours, their day was over. Their day started with PT, one of the few things that movies get right by showing it before dawn. So, yes, they're out of the office by 2 in the afternoon. Oh yeah, unless there is seriously something out of the norm with you, here's some Advil. Walk it off. Knew a guy that seriously injured his spine. Was back at work about a month later. Almost forgot, he deployed 4 or 5 months later. ~ Free food: Bought at a cost ration of greatest weight per dollar, which translated into cheapest food medically allowed. Joke I heard was: Grade E Beef-substitute, suitable for Americans worst and finest, served to our military and death-row inmates. With the way the Army operates, I was lucky to get two meals a day from cooks. Breakfast usually consisted of coffee and cigarettes, a bagel if I was lucky. Lunch and dinner was at the dining facilities where everything was rationed out using grade school sized portions. I ate the best when I was in the field or on vacation. I knew guys that were in that had a wife and children that qualified for food stamps. ~ Free training, vocational/technical style: They teach the bare minimum and expect the units the service member to go to teach the rest. So yeah, it's awesome if you go into the combat arms jobs because they don't want to write any "Dear Mr. & Mrs. Snuffy" letters. Last I check, the only people hiring these guys are the mafia and possibly law enforcement. The vo-tech jobs are slightly different. They promote and train the people who kiss ass, suck dick, stroke the shaft, gurgle the gravy and ask for seconds. (Looking back at my previous point, at least they were getting additional protein.) Everyone else got ignored unless the spotlight was on the person in charge.
It's a privilege to serve and one should be more concerned about things other than money --- plenty of time for that later (you've more than half your life ahead of you if you retire at age 38).
It's a privilege? The first two ideas which came to mind for that statement are either: A) you're former military who got so high up that you assume everyone has catered food, weekly manicures after golf, and heard that soldiers these days don't know how to dig a trench; or B) you're a civilian and thought Stripes was an actual account of all things military. Let me guess, you'll let us all have tea and crumpets for a mid afternoon snack. And if we retire by age 38, huh? How about if we make to age 38? That's assuming we all enter at age 18. (We don't. One is allowed in the military well into their 30's. Knew those guys to.) And on the topic of retiring, how about the guys who get medically retired because the Advil and water didn't heal running over an bomb? Yeah, it's a real privilege to be a poor, ahem, well payed member of the military. Please keep paying your taxes so elected officials can decide where to send us minions.
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a bit vitriolic, but I agree with most of what you are saying. I was discharged in 2001 for a spine injury at 24-it kind of fucked up my plans forward. Im in IT now, but I still have constant daily reminders of my service to Uncle-good and bad, mind you, but when it hurts to pick up my 4 yr old daughter and play with her, I get a little jaded.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny to think how much money we throw at defense and almost none of it gets spent on you guys. That's the real travesty there.
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Look at the defense budget. 60% goes to contractors, the leftover 40% goes to the troops "payroll, healthcare, etc.). The defense budget is a sacred cow, you can only add, not subtract. So guess what happened when contractors figured that out?
Thanks for your service, brother (Score:2)
Re:Good! (Score:5, Interesting)
Please, please, please don't allow him to disparage the military that I love and accept as fact. I was discharged too, after getting wounded
TL;DR : This dude is a crybaby. Army life isn't that bad. News at 11.
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Only federal employees working in "water transport & terminals" get paid less. For comparison, the average for postal workers is 40% hi
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Side note: for people who want an accurate depiction of the
An old-time squid's perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
I can echo some of what this former soldier says, but disagree with some.
I served in the Navy from '77-'83. I got out as a petty officer first class so I wasn't exactly at the top of the heap.
From a financial standpoint, this was just about the worst possible time to be in the U.S. military for about a hundred years. We had just moved back to an all volunteer force after years of a very unpopular draft. Vietnam had created a public perception that only baby killers and drunks wanted to enlist in the first place so the overall quality of people enlisting was all over the map. People really did join up because they had to (sometimes because the judge ordered them to), or because they felt an obligation as a citizen to do so. Not much in between. (BTW, some of the best sailors and Marines knew started out with some judge telling them, "Four years in uniform or prison. Your choice.")
Standards were pretty low because all of the branches were desperate to fill slots. High school diploma? Boy, you were an ace recruit!
It was common practice for recruiters to pull all kinds of tricks to fill quotas; lying on enlistment forms, taking qualifying tests for recruits, etc. I can't say that I blame them, though. If they didn't, they were subject to all kinds of judicial abuse. (Court martials for not filling quotas? Really??)
While I was in boot camp, I worked in the chow hall's storage locker. I personally saw huge stacks of canned beef with expiration dates from the late '50s. The cooler broke down and we were still told to put the spoiled milk on the line. When I finished with Service Week, just about the only things I would take off the line was bread and water. At least I knew that was fresh.
I knew married chiefs and senior chiefs with 20+ years in who qualified for food stamps. Year long deployments with 2 week turnarounds, while rare, weren't unheard of.
One year, 3 ships were declared unfit for sea the day they were scheduled to deploy due to lack of funds for proper maintenance.
The Iran hostage crisis exposed fundamental flaws in our communications network, logistical support, and inter-service doctrine. Thankfully, that was all largely addressed before the Gulf War.
In spite of all that, it wasn't all bad. My electronics training was pretty good considering the lack of resources. I had an opportunity to work with a really broad range of communications gear with people who really knew their stuff. I was way ahead of my civilian colleagues when I got out and hit the market.
Once I got out to the fleet I found out that Navy chow was actually pretty good most of the time, especially at shore stations. From an enlisted man's point of view, it's one major advantage that the Navy has traditionally had over the Army, after all. ;-)
I worked a swing shift schedule at one base for several years. We covered electronic maintenance on communications gear all over Oahu. Our command was responsible for supporting not just Navy, but Marine, Army, and Air Force equipment too. It gave us the chance to sample chow at a lot of different bases during our midnight runs.
I'd have to say that the best midnight breakfasts to be had were at Hickam Air Force Base. The cook behind the grill served up a mean Western omelet.
Wheeler Army Airfield had a pretty good chow hall, too. I was partial to their steak sandwiches.
The chow hall at the submarine base at Pearl Harber was run by a Filipino master chief who injected a lot of his native dishes into the menu. It's where I was introduced to lumpia. My mouth is watering just thinking about it now, 30+ years later. :-)
Given the same circumstances and what I know now, would I still enlist? Absolutely. My Navy electronics training got me started in IT with both the skills and the experience to put me head and shoulders above the competition. As a junior sailor I had more responsibility in my early 20s that most civilians don't get until they're
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You always wonder if posts like these come from real former-military, or just some guy who wants to rant.
kiss ass, suck dick, stroke the shaft, gurgle the gravy and ask for seconds.
Yep, he's the real deal. There's just this certain rhythm to military dick jokes, and they'll look you hard in the eye and tell you to perform the most shockingly homosexual acts, on them, that you could imagine of in an absolutely shameless way that Perez Hilton couldn't match on his best day.
... not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Just curious, did you make corporal before you got out?
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Look at Mercs. They get paid better for entry level jobs then most Sergeants (E-5/E-6) get paid.
Put them in jail (Score:5, Funny)
Put 'em in jail. If they can't break out, they weren't really good Seals anyways.
Re:Put them in jail (Score:5, Funny)
In 2012 , a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you can find them...maybe you can hire...Seal Team Six.
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Putting a whole elite tactical unit together in prison... in the same stockade... seems like a very bad idea to me. Especially if they believe they do not deserve this fate.
I'd put that in the "what could go wrong" department.
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They probably couldn't even fly a tank anyways.
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You nevah heard o' the A-Team, foo? Where Murdoch, foo? I sent him to find a big woosh fo' you!
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Regardless who is quoting what, it's still a bad idea.
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Bad ideas are the beginning of good plots. Bad-ideas-that-look-good make for better plots, I agree, so you've got a point about the A-Team lacking in this department. But no one ever said the A-Team was good.
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(Queue Music)
FTFY
(Cue music.)
FTFY.
Re:Put them in jail (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, put them in jail. But only because they released classified information. And if it's good enough for Bradley Manning to be locked up and tortured, then it is good enough for these people. Oh wait, these people didn't release political damaging and embarrassing information that demonstrated illegal activities by the US military.
I'm not even convinced that Bradley Manning even did anything. He's alleged to have done something, and he's been charged with various "crimes", but innocent until proven guilt amirite? And even if "proven" guilty (or if he admits guilt) I wouldn't be too sure, as he's been tortured (solitary confinement for hundreds of days) and denied access to a speedy trial, I'm sure there are heaps of other irregularities with regards his case.
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safe from "the other" inmates, maybe.
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The SEALs aren't some demigods like the movies would have you believe. They're much more like the team of network admins that's been working together in the basement together for several years. They're so good because they work together so fluidly and so efficently.
Could be worse (Score:3)
Could be worse. They could be"consulting" for the Mexican drug cartels, as some of Mexico and Guatemala's former special forces already do...
Re:Could be worse (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a serious problem of believing in our own hype. It's one thing when the enemy believes that you CAN do something (which you can't, but want them to believe you can), it's a much more dangerous situation where YOU believe you can do something (but cannot reliably do it).
The deification of special forces in popular culture is very dangerous. These people are human beings, physically fit and specially trained to be sure, but regular human beings with an immense logistical system to support them.
I worry tremendously because the general population (and government leaders) will permit actions which while technically possible, are tremendously risky from the perspective of national interests. We blind ourselves with our successes and can easily slip into a might makes right belief system. I feel that we hear far too often the phrase 'teach em a lesson'.
Believing that we can or should 'teach lessons' through the use of our special forces is incredibly dangerous and actions like the raid to kill Osama should only be undertaken sparingly because not only is the risk high, but without maintaining the moral highground it will become an incredibly dangerous world when OTHER actors being to reach out and 'teach' their own 'lessons' on a similar scale.
Re:Could be worse (Score:5, Interesting)
"These people are human beings, physically fit and specially trained to be sure, but regular human beings with an immense logistical system to support them."
To be fair it's the level of physical fitness and training that matters and makes a large difference as much as anything.
When I was younger I was in the army cadets in the UK, and on an annual camp once we were sent through a fairly small forested area to try and find 5 professional soldiers hidden in there camo'd up. We did find one, hidden up a tree, but still hard to see, he was in the TA and fairly new to it at that though.
When we'd given up we walked to the edge of the forest and they were told to come out of hiding. One guy comes out with his face covered in mud with some pretty clear signs of a boot print on it. It was my boot print, as he'd been led down in a narrow gully deep with leaf litter which I'd walked straight through. The guy was a gurkha, who aren't even really classed as special forces, but it was this experience above all else that made me realise the gap between what we think is realistically possible, and what is actually possible can sometimes be quite large such that we don't even entertain it. When he showed us exactly where he'd been hidden he literally had his face covered in mud with only his eyes showing through and leaf litter on top, the amazing part was how quickly and quietly he was able to disguise himself the way he did- you could be chasing him, lose him from sight for 20 seconds and he'd have all but vanished. I'm glad I was just an army cadet and this wasn't a real war, as otherwise I suspect he may well have chopped my balls off with his kukri, and I'm kind of fond of my balls being left where they are. Between the softness of the deep leaf litter and the thick sole on my boots, I simply hadn't realised I'd walked right over someone's face.
So if this guy, not even selected for the SAS was this talented, I've always wondered what sort of things the special forces themselves get upto, and get away with. Everyone watches war films, and plays Call of Duty or whatever and thinks "Yeah, I could be that badass if I joined the military", but to most of those people you couldn't, you really couldn't. It takes a steely determination and years of practice, exercise to achieve the things they do and these people, the best of the best are the people who if they hadn't gone down the military route and joined the special forces would likely have been Olympic athletes, or other stand out professionals. It's not the sort of thing your average person has the patience and determination for.
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Having worked with the seals on more than one occasion I assure you that the majority of them "are not human".
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Or consulting for the most murderous dictators of Latin America....
nevermind, someone else beat them to it [wikipedia.org].
Can't buy PR like that! (Score:5, Insightful)
And the EA PR team just shared a collective orgasm. They must already be trying different font settings to display "So real, Navy Seals were disciplined for it!" on the game cover.
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Exactly. Not sure what the Navy was thinking, but you can buy this kind of PR (or did they? adjusts tinfoil hat). I mean I never even heard of it, nor would I care if I did use Seal consultants. However WTF did they share with EA that was deserving of getting diciplined? Now I want to play the game just to try and figure out what the whole secret is about!
So EA WIN, and Navy FAIL!
Hello Security Contractors (Score:5, Funny)
I've never really understood (Score:5, Insightful)
A quote:
Read more about it here [washingtontimes.com].
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Yeah, I figured as much, which is why I threw the disclaimer in about "there are probably five guys wishing he'd shut up".. probably even more. I'm just amazed, because even when I was stationed near 10th SFG I never heard those guys talking about anything to do with a mission... and we're just talking about standard issue greenie beanies. (They're still light years ahead of anything I did though)
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The one thing I was told about special operations was that if you know about them, they are already obsolete. They've had SEAL training on TV for the love of Pete. Remember when the special forces meant the Green Berets? The SEALs are some major badasses, but you don't know what to call today's true special forces...and you won't for another 20 years.
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While in the US Army, many many years ago, my department regularly had SF medics-in-training rotate through every few weeks. The couple of them that I got to know were consummate "quiet professionals". When pressed for "war stories" they politely but consistently demurred. While they were open enough to make it quite clear that they were the real deal, it was just as clear that each was possessed of a shared cultural conditioning that kept them from even wanting to appear that way. Maybe
I know a SEAL (Score:5, Interesting)
...and I only know what he is because we've been friends since grade school.
He normally is very clear - he simply can't talk about what he does, where he was or will be, etc. No big, right?
The last year or so, I've heard him make more SEAL-related comments than I've heard him say in the previous 10. He is particularly bitter and annoyed at the 'prima-donna douchebags' that are writing books and showing up in movies.
He gets it, he does: there are great piles of money and fame and hero-worship to be gained. But he points out: nobody does his job because they want to get rich or famous.
Basically, he's disgusted at the SEALs who have taken the 'public visibility' course, and can't really understand why they aren't immediately let go and firewalled. He said he's recognized things that they've discussed, or shown in movies, that are operational methods that while the bad guys may suspect we can do it if they think about it, it's stupid to wave it in front of them. It's going to get operations blown and SEALs killed.
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Our government itself talks about where seal teams have been when it makes good propaganda. Presumably, some of the information which has leaked has been leaked, as in intentionally. Neither you nor he is cleared to know which is which.
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He said he's recognized things that they've discussed, or shown in movies, that are operational methods that while the bad guys may suspect we can do it if they think about it, it's stupid to wave it in front of them. It's going to get operations blown and SEALs killed.
Then again, the bad guys may also copy the nonsense Hollywood tactics/methods and get themselves killed sooner...
Simple solution (Score:2)
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... and when they've done something important like Bin Ladin, let them brag about it. Sit down with them, figure out what can get released and what can't. Then let them hit good morning America.
And set up their friends and family for retaliation by other terrorists? Not a good idea....
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Clearly these guys want money and adulation. And that makes sense given the type of guy the military wants to make into a seal. So give it to them. How many seals are there? Not that many... so pay them well... and when they've done something important like Bin Ladin, let them brag about it. Sit down with them, figure out what can get released and what can't. Then let them hit good morning America.
I wouldn't really call roughly 2000 members (and total unit size, including support staff, of about 6500) to be "not that many". Compared to about 400 for Recon Marines and 800-1000 (including support staff) for Delta. And remember, most SEALs do work that is closer to what Recon marines or Army Special Forces do. It is only Team Six that is the equivalent to Delta. SEALs are generally just the navy version of your basic special forces soldier. That being said, I know and used to work out with a guy th
CoD clones are not realistic (Score:2)
unwritten code (Score:2)
"violated the unwritten code that SEALs are silent warriors who shun the spotlight."
Oh dear, there goes THAT bit of secrecy. Or maybe it was already gone:
http://usnavysealfoundation.org/SEAL_CODE.html [usnavysealfoundation.org]
So how is this any different... (Score:4, Insightful)
...from the active duty SEALs used in Act of Valor [imdb.com]? Oh wait, I know the answer: Because Act of Valor was a nice little right-wing propaganda film that showed the Navy in their best light. And EA is just a gaming company. Or something like that.
Say "Hi" to Bradley Manning for us (Score:3)
The are going to be locked in solitary for years for revealing State Secrets, right?
Dummies (Score:2)
Will EA be jailed and fined as well? Treason? (Score:2)
They must have known a lot of this info was classified, I mean they're the "experts" on all of this, right? It doesn't matter if the SEALS said otherwise, I am guessing EA knew. They were just as much a part of this as the SEALS were.
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Different times (Score:2)
No giving away secrets ... (Score:2)
Yeah, right (Score:2)
So it's perfectly OK for active duty SF personal to advice and appear in blatant self-promotional crap like "Act Of Valor".
But not OK at all if they do it with a private firm.
Yeah, makes sense.
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Just Get Elected President (Score:3, Funny)
Then, you can simply declassify what you want and get some of your Hollywood buddies to make a movie with the information.
Fucking hypocritical is what it is.
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Then, you can simply declassify what you want and get some of your Hollywood buddies to make a movie with the information.
And in the movie, make bin Laden the arch-villain seven feet tall, three hundred pounds of pure bones and muscles and have him defend himself with his personal sidearm, 20mm Gatling gun. Then slap a "based on a true story" sticker onto it and publish it.
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And you think Bin Laden would have kept quiet if he hadn't been killed? He would have had one of his videos out pretty damn quick with a copy of the current New York Times and pointing to the date saying "Haha, sorry guys! Better luck next time!"
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And you think Bin Laden would have kept quiet if he hadn't been killed? He would have had one of his videos out pretty damn quick with a copy of the current New York Times and pointing to the date saying "Haha, sorry guys! Better luck next time!"
if he was really the enemy then yeah. if he is really a puppet (think: actor) created by the military industrial complex to justify more foreign wars of aggression, then no.
Careful there dude, you'll work yourself into a lather and mess up all of that tin foil that you've been working so hard on.
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And you think Bin Laden would have kept quiet if he hadn't been killed? He would have had one of his videos out pretty damn quick with a copy of the current New York Times and pointing to the date saying "Haha, sorry guys! Better luck next time!"
if he was really the enemy then yeah. if he is really a puppet (think: actor) created by the military industrial complex to justify more foreign wars of aggression, then no.
Since he's out of the picture, they're now using Anonymous Coward to fill the role 'eh?
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that this meme gets consistently modded to oblivion when there's more than enough evidence to suggest that it's at least a fucking possibility does nothing but increase the probability of it in fact actually being the case, at least in the minds of those not necessarily hooked on the Fox News/CNN tit...
Never say never, I suppose - but the idea does seem a little crazy. He's been dead for quite some time and there's been no problem justifying the foreign wars without him. There was also no problem doing it before any of us ever heard of him. Seems like a long and risky road for the government to take to get a justification that they didn't even need.
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Sounds like you're the crazy one!
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<tinfoil>Unless they died in a somewhat convenient helicopter crash, of course...</tinfoil>
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So what you're saying is that it's a high risk operation with no reward?
Yes.
And that somebody involved would probably have come forward by now since that would be a huge news story, they'd be a hero, and there's no moral justification for the action?
No, just that I think it's unlikely because it's an extremely elaborate idea with no (or very little) reward.
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:5, Funny)
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Such sound reasoning you got there. Clearly the random /. mods know something that the government doesn't want let out.
"Al-Qaeda vows revenge for bin Laden death." (Score:3)
Obviously just a PR stunt for promoting the game. Also serves USA PR interests carrying on myth of that whole bin laden complex raid and mysterious sea burial malarkey!
the sheeple are so dumb they believe anything with no evidence if it is official enough.
This from Aljazerra:
Al-Qaeda vows revenge for bin Laden death. Group confirms death of its leader in an online posting and says it will continue attacks on the West. [aljazeera.com]
No terrorist has ever shown more media-savvy then bin Laden
The propaganda value of a bin Laden audio tape or video produced after the US announced his death can't be possibly underestimated.
None has ever surfaced.
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:5, Funny)
"we will attack tomorrow at 2am" makes sense to keep that secret. "we had to fight three groups of guards before we got to bin ladin" makes no sense at all.
My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar.
When will you be back?
I can't tell you that. It's classified.
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:5, Interesting)
The paranoia is there, because you can't know what will let the enemy connect the dots until it's too late. You can't know what information they need, so you try to hide it all.
Doesn't make much sense for us regular folks, but we aren't likely to be shot or tortured if someone gets some information from us.
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"I'm here in Iraq with the Army's 101st Airborne Division, and we're headed this way (draws map in sand for camera)."
Geraldo Rivera, during the invasion of Iraq.
Any other war, any other network and he would have been shot for treason. Can't give a whole lot more aid to the enemy than that.
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Any other war, any other network and he would have been shot for treason.
During the Falklands War, the BBC reported that although several British ships had been hit by bombs, casualties were light because most of the bombs had defective detonators. Argentina quickly fixed the problem with the detonators. No one was shot for treason.
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During the Falklands War, the BBC reported that although several British ships had been hit by bombs, casualties were light because most of the bombs had defective detonators. Argentina quickly fixed the problem with the detonators. No one was shot for treason.
I found verification for half of that statement. Can't find enough details for the other half. For all I can determine, the news was released on behalf of the British Government to misdirect the enemy.
Geraldo, on the other hand, was broadcasting real-time troop information. The only thing that kept Saddam from being able to exploit it was that his army was not merely less effective than we thought, it was less effective than HE thought. Then again, the same was true of his WMDs. His Ministry of Information
Re:slap on the wrist (Score:5, Insightful)
What they want to keep secret are the ways in which they do things.
Surprise, they like it. Confusion, they encourage it. These are things that help keep them alive.
In football you of course do not want the opposing team to know what play you are panning on doing next.
But it is also damaging to have the opposing team have your play book.
The seals were giving out pages of the Seal playbook for a fucking video game. I play games. I like em.
Really though. Giving out pages of the Seal playbook so that a fucking video game can be a little better should be punished. Heavily.
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"we had to fight three groups of guards before we got to bin ladin" makes no sense at all.
Actually, it makes perfect sense in a game. You first engage the minions, and only after all minions are dead, you can fight the boss to proceed to the next level.
Re:puh...lease (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously just a PR stunt for promoting the game. Also serves USA PR interests carrying on myth of that whole bin laden complex raid and mysterious sea burial malarkey!
the sheeple are so dumb they believe anything with no evidence if it is official enough.
you could say something about apple and somebody here will say "citation needed" and wont believe you without some kind of proof. the greatest villian we've been presented with so far in the 21st century dies and there is no evidence and everybody believes it. i tell you it is a crazy world.
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the sheeple are so dumb they believe anything with no evidence if it is official enough.
Instead of modding this down (i.e. playing a cowardly game of "shoot the messenger"), would anyone actually care to point out why this statement is invalid? While undoubtedly jaded and cynical, it illustrates the entire reason that governments go to so much effort to engage in domestic psyops (if doesn't, then presumably they're wasting a lot of money!).
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I'm not sure why you'd think somebody asking you to explain your reasoning and provide a source to support your statements of fact is unreasonable. Well, unless your points are inherently irrational, and have no factual sources to support them, I guess.
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Too fuckin late [tumblr.com].
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