Valve Begins Listing Linux Requirements For Certain Games On Steam 332
Deathspawner writes "Perhaps hinting at the fact that the official Steam for Linux launch isn't too far off, Valve has begun updating some game pages to include Linux system requirements. Some games don't list only Ubuntu as the main supported distro, with some listing Linux Mint and Fedora as well. A common theme is that Valve recommends you always use a 'fully updated' OS, regardless of which distro you use. And based on the system requirements laid out so far, it's safe to say that Serious Sam 3: BFE will undoubtedly be the most system-intensive game released at launch."
That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:5, Insightful)
While I know of the advantages that Linked libraries give, such as being to update a huge set of programs at once, Allowing us coders to change how programs operate by changing the library source. However in the terms of Distributing software for different distributions it becomes a nightmare for the author. Because they can only really test a small percentage of these distributions, and who know if that unknown distribution uses that library or has the library requires to install it...
Systems like APT do a wonderful job of solving the problem for us. But not all distributions use APT and/or they may have a different set of repositories.
Re:That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:5, Insightful)
So you promise to update your application forever whenever a problem with such a library is found?
Re:That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the main reason Debian is against applications shipping their own static versions of libraries instead of using the system library, because it requires everyone be on top of updating, especially for security issues. If everyone links with the Debian libfoo, then if there's a security issue they can just update it. But if some projects have their own local copy of libfoo in their git tree, then you're hoping the upstream maintainer is going to promptly re-sync it. Often that doesn't happen: projects sometimes ship ancient internal versions of libraries where they just did a cp -r into their own project tree years ago and never kept up with updates. So Debian expends considerable effort ripping out these local forks.
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Re:That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what fixes both of those issues?
FREE software. Then the code can be fixed even after the original developer is long gone.
Re:That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what fixes both of those issues? FREE software. Then the code can be fixed even after the original developer is long gone.
Hardly. Not everyone who wants the problem fixed has the skills or time to do so, and not everyone who has the skills or time wants to fix the problem. The result is a ton of problems in FOSS ends up going unfixed all the time.
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If someone who cannot do it wanted the problem fixed they can simply pay someone to do so.
Updates sometimes break things ... (Score:5, Informative)
So you promise to update your application forever whenever a problem with such a library is found?
Do you promise not to complain when an update to the library breaks the game? Or when the game fails to run on your favored niche distro?
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It behooves the platform vendor to not break the platform for software that is dependent on it. That is, presumably, the purpose of an LTS release. Not that this is impossible, Microsoft updates have broken software on Windows, but it is unlikely to happen in a way that doesn't blow up a lot of other stuff.
That's your problem and no one else's.
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No actually it is your problem. If Linux is a fragmented mess and it takes a lot of man hours to support all the distros, companies may just give it a miss.
Fortunately there is no reason why any company would ever have to support "all the distros." My main desktop runs Gentoo. My laptop runs Arch. I also do not care whether or not Valve or any other company with a proprietary product decides to support my niche distros. Those of us who choose to run a non-mainstream distro presumably also know how to make it work with whatever software we want to run. Your concern over the lack of support companies give to people like me is heart-warming, but it's also qu
Re:That is why I supported fully static builds (Score:4, Insightful)
Then simply tell the user to run ldd against the game binary and then fend for themselves.
If you run something that doesn't hold your hand, then that's a conscious choice that you've made. It's completely reasonable for Valve to treat you accordingly and assume that you can fend for yourself and understand the related instructions.
Or you could just go the "windows style installer" route and stop acting like a stupid hysterical ninny pretending that these kinds of tools for Linux haven't existed for years and years already.
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Totally off topic, but actually I think the main problem with APT is not the linking, they do solve that wonderfully; and the few times that I need something that is not (yet) available from apt I can just compile myself.
What I do find problematic is the interface of apt with language-specific library repositories. Eg pip for python, cran for R. I generally want to use those repositories since they are the de facto standard in those communities, but (1) that gives clashes if some other apt package requires
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you could in theory make .debs that just contain scripts to pip or cran or cpan or whatever...
that's one solution.
LGPL is not viral ... (Score:2)
What about the GPL? If you statically link a GPL library to your code, I believe you must release source code for the whole shebang. Game developers aren't going to go for that.
That is why many key libraries are LGPL, so there is no such requirement when statically linking.
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Got Beta invite ... for Debian (Score:5, Interesting)
I just got my beta invite yesterday -after specifying I was on Debian Sid (I never expected an invite since I'm not using Ubuntu). Will fiddle with it and get it running today, I'll definitely buy a few games just because.
Seems like they are close to releasing.
Re:Got Beta invite ... for Debian (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone is misunderstanding... (Score:5, Informative)
... what "fully updated" means. It certainly sounds like the author thinks that the latest distro and kernel is what's recommended.
It's not.
>Ubuntu 12.04
Valve is recommending the LTS and not 12.10, as well they should. Recommending the latest kernel and distro is asking for nothing but pain for everybody involved.
As far as the hardware recommendations go, they're not outrageous either.
--
BMO
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Year of the Linux Desktop (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop (Score:4, Funny)
See, by the time of the Year of the Linux Desktop, Linux will be too mainstream. We'll have all switched to some more "trendy" or "underground" OS. Possibly one of the BSDs, or maybe OS/2 if it's "retro" enough, but possibly some yet-to-be-written OS. HURD, perhaps?
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Re:Year of the Linux Desktop (Score:4, Funny)
Ironically using Windows 8, even.
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Haiku, man. Gotta be Haiku.
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Amnesia multi platform not really surprising (Score:4, Interesting)
The linked article shows how Amnesia (which is an excellent game, btw, at least part 1 is) will be supported on different platforms, but I'm pretty sure Amnesia already runs on those platforms. So it seems to me that Valve is supporting ubuntu, but will list other OS'es that happen to be supported by the (original) publisher?
Of course this is all deduction from rumors and two screenshots, so take cum grano salis....
Ubuntu minus the bad decisions. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's pretty simple, really (Score:5, Interesting)
More choices typically work out better for consumers. Sure, you can game on your WinPC, or OSX, or your Dreamcast or XBox or whatever, but arguing that enabling Linux gaming is a bad idea is terribly short sighted. More choices = more competition = better value for consumers.
I, for one, will likely sign up for steam/Linux and make sure to buy a game or three to see how it goes as I support this development. I sincerely hope Valve gets plenty rich doing this as it finally proves a business model that Loki Games (remember them?) couldn't do a decade or so ago. (I bought all their games)
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Except the market isn't split between shitty Chinese tablets and iPads.
Furthermore, this is 2012. You don't need to go into any purchase blind. You can check around and see if a device is all of that.
That includes doorstop computers like Macs.
Only a blithering Apple fanboy would equate consumer product selection with automotive repairs.
Re:It's pretty simple, really (Score:5, Funny)
If they'd bought an iPad they'd be having a better quality of life.
I have an iPad 3 and I can tell you that being able to read webpages whilst shitting has really improved all other aspects of my life.
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... and have them rate their happiness on a scale of 10 to 10.
I see what you did there. _
Will they be adding Debian as a supported distro? (Score:2)
Or is the Debian open philosophy just too incompatible with the idea of Linux gaming?
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I'm not complaining, just asking a question.
Re:Will they be adding Debian as a supported distr (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you two are both idiots.
It doesn't really matter what Debian thinks. Once the software is in your hands, you get to use it any way you like. That even includes running Oracle on it. None of this stuff is new at all.
If you want to run Steam with Debian, nothing is stopping you.
Your choices will dictate the nature of your experience. That's just life.
Uneducated Virtualization Suggestion (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe this is how it already works - but if it isn't here's an avenue I would investigate:
Shouldn't it be possible for Steam to build a hypervisor type environment? If they have a common hypervisor they port the game once to run in that environment. Then all they need to do is get their hypervisor running on Windows, *NIX, MAC, whatever.
There's definitely some additional processing overhead on this, but it seems that it would be a very efficient model once you have the hypervisor built. I would think you could probably push the specs/API/etc to the game publishers and have the game developer team adopt their game to the platform.
I don't know anything about how Steam works under the covers so maybe they're already doing this. I'm curious, but not enough to do the legwork.
Re:Uneducated Virtualization Suggestion (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Uneducated Virtualization Suggestion (Score:5, Informative)
its fun to bash java for being slow (having slow execution speed), no matter how untrue it is. I'd rather bash it for its faults -- to start I'll name two:
1. Slow startup. This may contribute to the reputation for slowness, but is really just the setup. It isn't slow execution speed, its the latency from "I want to run this" to "application is started". I'm not saying startup speed should inherently be faster, just that this is a negative and it is also true.
2. Static memory allocation. WTF! You too can re-live the glory days of Apple's operating system before they jumped the shark and went bsd. How much memory an application can possibly use is set as a property/execution parameter and can only be altered between executions. Ummm... seriously? I've always assumed this was due to the VM model they chose and a misguided attempt at security by shackling programs to outdated paradigms, but really?
Re:Uneducated Virtualization Suggestion (Score:5, Insightful)
Publishers are not going to bite at something that demands they keep specific-distributor-only builds around just so Valve can build some clunky hypervisor. The only segment of PC gaming that might be worth the effort are sports titles, and EA pretty much has those sewn up tighter than a drum.
Sad (Score:2)
Sad to see that they are not being distro-agnostic and standards-compliant. That would solve many, many problems.
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standards-compliant
Which standards? That's always the problem with standards, there are so many of them.
If you're going to pick the Linux Standard Base [linuxbase.org], the problem there is that it's decidedly not distro-agnostic, but specifically demands RPM-based package management.
Opened up the Linux Trial (Score:2)
They opened up the trial and invited more people yesterday. I got my invite.
I have been playing games on Linux for years.
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List of projected games? (Score:2)
Valve should start their own steam-distro (Score:3)
Since I heard they were doing Steam for Linux I can't get it out of my head that they should build their own distro. They should probably pursue a similar strategy than the one Google did with Android.
They could partner with hardware manufacturers and certify PCs or console-like devices that they are compliant with the distribution hardware requirements, maybe setting several levels of hardware support. So you can buy a 'level 3' Steam PC, and be sure that a certain number of games run on it without issues.
I would probably buy something like that if the experience was hassle-free enough.
Why game on anything other than Windows? (Score:5, Interesting)
Disclaimer: I avidly use Steam on OSX, but I'm constantly frustrated with it's buggy state. If the linux client proves to be better over time (with a good offering of games) I'll be upgrading my linux box and going that route.
Re:Why game on anything other than Windows? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Why game on anything other than Windows? (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps the programmers they have working on the Linux version are better than the programmers they got to do the Mac version? Perhaps they know the system better (e.g. the programmers writing the Mac version are Windows programmers who got reassigned, vs. the Linux version where they specifically hired Linux devs)? Perhaps Valve learned some stuff when porting Steam to Mac that they couldn't apply to the Mac version (because it was too far along), but had the advantage of applying to the Linux version? Perhaps they have another reason to make the Linux version particularly better (rumoured Steam console)?
Point is, there are lot of reasons a Linux port might be better than a Mac port.
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Why as a Linux user would I ever want to game on a Mac?
Windows is the best platform? Can I have whatever you are smoking?
Mac hardware is fine, but the OS quite frankly sucks. It tries so hard to not be unixy that it really repels me.
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Actually the mac standard terminal app is a great example at how shitty the UNIXy experience on OSX really is.
I would explain more, but if you think that is a unix experience it would be casting pearls before swine.
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Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Lack of FFM, lack of customizability, lack of middle click highlight and paste. The fact that for some reason applications do not live in /bin and for some reason do not end up in my PATH after installation.
The lack of decent package management is another huge pain. It means like windows many application have their own method of updating which is cumbersome compared to apt or yum.
Basically my biggest usability complaints stem from a lack of X11 conventions that I expect with a UNIXy experience. The whole OSX desktop seems to be designed to only have one window open at a time.
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What exactly does that improve?
It looks like just another finder. I am not sure how that helps me. I am not really interested in some graphical file browser.
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Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Mac OS X is an open platform ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Because most Linux users don't want to be subjected to Apple's control of what you can and cannot do on your computer.
Mac users are not subject to such control. Mac OS X is an open platform. You are free to get apps straight from the developer, the Apple App Store is not required.
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hmm... uninformed or trolling?
1. "Apple's control of what you can and cannot do on your computer"
Right, just the other day I was thinking, "gee, it would be really nice if I could run non-Mac applications, too bad I can't compile Qt and use a non-native environment." With the ability to compile there is no "controlling what 'you' can and cannot do".
2. "the Apple tax you pay for the hardware"
Man! That always burns me up to. I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same spe
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"Man! That always burns me up to. I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same specification why do the prices always line up? I can't figure that one out either."
Cool. Price me out a Mac Laptop with a non Intel GPU for under $1000. Naw I'll make it easier, under $1500 (prices are Canadian, but I'm not sure US prices would help you much)
I can't find one, so please point me in the right direction, your obviously better at this. Case in point my 13" laptop with nVidia G
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Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Informative)
So if you want to do both unixy world and games why not Mac?.
1) Some people like Linux more than either of the proprietary OSes. This might be because they can configure Linux more, or because it's free, or because it's ideologically free, or because their friend told them to run it, or any of a thousand other reasons.
2) Why not? Many indie developers have already made Linux-compatible games that are also on steam. For instance, most of the Humble Indie bundles have had a requirement of running on Linux, and most of those games also provided steam keys.
3) Other people aren't a Apple shills/trolls?
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm going to go with cost as a primary one. That better support you refer to comes with a pretty hefty premium. Also, most Linux folks I'm imagine aren't real fans of Apple's walled garden approach when it comes to... well everything. Macs may be a closer blood relative to Linux with it being basically BSD under the hood, but ideologically they're a LONG way off.
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If I wanted to use a proprietary OS that pissed me off continually, why would I not just use windows?
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easy answer #1:
no pirating is required, no "stealing" is required, and since the OS is free it's always going to be kept up to date.
Nothing other than Linux is free to keep up to date, and allows you to do so essentially for the life of the hardware.
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Umm, no. Steam is situated to take advantage of a gaming convergent xbox + desktop combination with their big picture mode. Catch? It works with Linux.
Microsoft creating an exclusively console based environment and stopping desktop development would guarantee they fade away from relevance.
Because you have a Linux Box?? (Score:2)
My big question is if you have a TriBoot Linux /Mac /Win system short of the publisher being a Rotted Male Organ wiould you ahve to buy each platform seperately?? (or would your Steam Account load the "correct" platform each time from one purchase)
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Because I run Linux, I like Linux, and I want to play games on Linux. Does there have to be a more complex answer than that?
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Games are sometimes a secondary consideration ... (Score:2)
Why would you want to game on Linux
If a person is primarily interested in games then a Windows PC is probably the best choice. Hence the popularity of dual boot Windows/Linux rigs among Linux enthusiasts.
However games are sometimes a secondary consideration. A person may have chosen their computer and operating system for some non-gaming reason and that person may still want to play games. This is just as true for Linux as it is for Mac OS X.
Wine and Crossover are doable but they have a cost, an overhead. A fully native port will yield
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As a Mac user I know the feeling, but what would you even acquire by trying to game on Linux? There is Macs for unixy world and it has better support than Linux will ever will. Of course Windows is the best platform but mostly because they have things like XNA and .NET. Microsoft has really played their game well. But why on Linux rather than Mac? While Crossover isn't supporting all the games it's at least better and many games have Mac Ports? So if you want to do both unixy world and games why not Mac?
The only good thing about this is the feeling that maybe Mac ports become more frequent too, but I'm not putting lot into that hope as far as Linux support goes.
Valve isn't the problem here - they've been good about bringing their AAA content to Mac and keeping it supported. I expect that they will continue to do the same with Linux.
The problem is that they are the distributors (through Steam) for a bunch of publishers that aren't Mac friendly. However, this gives them a reason to change, if they want to. Some of them can't afford to, some of them just won't and some of them will even be dickbags about it.
A lot of those same publishers are willing to be completely
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The problem is that they are the distributors (through Steam) for a bunch of publishers that aren't Mac friendly.
Take it a step farther, and they're not friendly to macs. There are plenty of titles available for Windows on Steam and Mac on the App Store, but not as SteamPlay for whatever reason.
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I can choose to buy an overpriced computer from Apple or build my own with better specs for the same amount of mullah + doing my own wire management + getting the choice of a case (Lian Li makes some sweet products) and slap Ubuntu (I can choose from a large selection of distros) on there. I have the choice of using an nvidia card not AMD. This is important because of driver support. While people complained of white screens with Macs for Diablo 3, I was happily hacking away at monsters.With an SSD the syste
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"Of course Windows is the best platform " For what? Causing you to try and lobotomize yourself with a shotgun in the mouth?
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
You can kid yourself all you like.
Snickering at Apple products is all about having at least half a clue and knowing that their products just don't cut it.
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The GeForce GTX 670 in my 4 year old Mac Pro disagrees with you. Drivers included in Mac OS X 10.8 by default.
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Better tell Apple that, then. [apple.com]
Seriously... I don't own a single Apple device. I don't consider myself to be in their target market, and I object to paying the prices they're asking for their stuff when I can get gear that's just as good for less. But would it kill you to actually check their fucking website to see if they're still selling it, before you spout off that it's a dead line?
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"Dead product" means that their hardware is literally two generations behind, and they're still selling it for the most exorbitant prices. Not that they're not selling it right now.
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You can indeed upgrade the graphics cards on some laptops, and there are external graphics cards that can be used with others
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You know, I always liked the system layout of the TI-99/4a
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You know, I always liked the system layout of the TI-99/4a
Me too. Having to jam everything through a 4K window made you write a lot more efficient code, instead of what we get today when people have free memory to waste on calculating frames that never get composited or displayed.
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>If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
Almost all Mac machines are laptops (the Mac Mini and the iMac count as laptops as they use laptop components). When was the last time you saw an upgradeable laptop?
Good point you made there. Apple nigh abandoned its desktop users. Now I'm quite fond of desktops, and desktop gaming. And on my budget my next desktop won't be a mac, but probably/hopefully a linux-mint-debian (I hope I wrote that correctly) desktop. Not a laptop. Not a mac.
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So Apple goes out of it's way to make machines that will quickly become doorstops. Thanks for clearing that up.
That's a great reason to avoid Apple right there.
A 5 year old Mac is stuck on light duty.
A 5 year old PC can have a (cheap) new GPU shoved in it and it will happily run current games on Steam.
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No, no it can't. A two or three year old PC can have a new GPU and a memory upgrade and be semi-competant again. A five or six year old PC needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up.
I know, because I'm in the process of doing that right now. My Core 2 Duo + AMD 5570 has gone as far as it is going to go. It's had a GPU update and a memory refresh. It is now CPU limited in most games and buying a new GPU for this old box would be a waste of money.
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Sorry but you aren't doing it right. My 2 year old desktop runs every graphic intensive game I've thrown at it on max settings. It sounds like you are doing a poor job selecting motherboards and possibly gpus if you need an upgrade at 2-3yrs. With a motherboard it isn't enough to buy something expensive. You need to be forward looking and buy something that has the ability to run not just the affordable chips and cards you are actually buying but can also run the top of the line just released yesterday and
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So his post is that a 2 year old desktop can easily be upgraded but a 5-6 year old one cannot and you jump in and say he's doing it all wrong that your 2 year old computer is easily upgradeable.
Either your idiot, you don't know the difference between 2 and 5 or can't read. You decide.
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He's right, though. A C2D/C2Q plus a more up-to-date card than the (*snicker*) 5570 he has now can handle most things you throw at it with ease.
He just said "It's already been upgraded, and upgrading it more would be a waste of money because I hold the idea that the CPU isn't powerful enough."
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Which Core 2 Duo do you have, because I'd be surprised if a E6850 slightly overclocked couldn't handle the vast majority of the latest games just fine, and the E6850 came out 5.5 years ago, and wasn't very expensive when it was released ($260). Of course, the quads were also available at that time, like the Q6600 and Q6700, not to mention the X6800 which is 6.5 years old.
Sounds like you got a 5-6 year old bargain PC and coupled it with a $80 video card ($80 at release!). I'm not surprised you are having some serious performance issues in games today.
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Yeah, not any more. Go look at the latest iMac teardown from ifixit [ifixit.com].
Re: Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
I doubt it. Once you've ported the app to use OpenGL you've already done most the work for getting it to work on Linux or OS X. Compared to getting a Windows app to work natively on Linux, getting a Linux app to work natively on OS X is a walk in the park. Plus I imagine the game manufacturers will want to go after the Mac install base. Have you seen the number of Mac laptops in the average college classroom?
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Bullshit. Anything not-Microsoft is going to be just as hard to deal with because that's simply how Microsoft has engineered the situation. If you live in their little garden, it's going to be hard to leave. That's just the way it is.
It doesn't matter what the platform is.
On the other hands, most of the other platforms are not nearly as "exclusive" as Windows. They just don't have the gall of Microsoft or the longstanding desktop monopoly based on legacy DOS applications.
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Then you would have to put up with Windows.
Not all proprietary software is as bad as the crap that comes from Microsoft. Not all proprietary software is as prone to trap you either.
Re:Why would you want to game on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are planning on playing a lot of video games? Windows is the best platform... for now.
If valve can make steam for linux stable and convert most of its library? Then it will be time to reevaluate that statement.
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DRM that works well isn't so bad
it's when it doesn't work that screws us
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