Valve Starts Publishing Packages For Its Own Linux Distribution 310
An anonymous reader writes "In preparation for the "Steam Box" game console that will make necessary their own Linux-based software platform, Valve developers have started publishing Debian packages for their platform which looks like their first-generation operating system will be derived from Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS. So far the packages being published include a new "Plymouth" boot splash screen as the operating system loads, a Steam desktop wallpaper, auto-updating system scripts, and experimental NVIDIA Linux graphics drivers."
Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like this might finally be the year. With Windows 8 throwing a lot of users away with a bad interface and a marketplace lock-in, The timing is pretty good. A lot of people always claimed that games were the only reason they were still on Windows.
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe not the year of the Linux desktop, but instead the year of the Linux set-top-box.
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe not the year of the Linux desktop, but instead the year of the Linux set-top-box.
As long as Valve (and ideally other developers as well) make big-name games availale, then I think a lot of gamers would switch to Linux on their existing computer rather than buy a set-top box.
Plenty of people only use their computers for basic web/email/word processing and games and the only thing that ties them to Windows is games. I'm sure plenty would welcome the opportunity to not have to pay for Windows (or have the hassle of pirating it) so long as the games they want to play are available on Linux.
Unfortunately, right now, the choice is lacking. I see Counter-Strike:Source and Team Fortress 2 being the only big-name games. This is disappointing as they were allegedly beta testing with Left 4 Dead 2 which still isn't available on Linux.
Once the other main Source games become available and new games are written with Linux in mind then I can see adoption of Linux for gaming picking up.
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Yeah, my point was not about the desktop/set-top-box format itself, but about the roles people use computers for. If Valve can get a substantial portion of their games to run on their distribution, then they may very well succeed in bringing Linux to people who use their computers primarily for gaming. And that's no small accomplishment.
However, when it comes to computers used for business/productivity, this probably won't have a big impact. If you could bring Outlook and Adobe CS to Linux, then you mig
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Not to say that TBird can't be improved (especially task/calendar stuff), but for large mailboxes over IMAP it's far better then Outlook. Plus better support for multiple email address scenarios where you need to either have multiple aliases for a mailbox or have multiple mailboxes.
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Outlook is garbage unless you're talking to an Exchange server. It barely supports IMAP.
True enough, but Exchange is hardly rare.
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...only thing that ties them to Windows is games.
That, and the demands of employers. I'm a contractor so I need to keep a Windows machine around to work on their stuff. I do more Windows development than Linux, but its really starting to tip the other way.
I'm sure plenty would welcome the opportunity to not have to pay for Windows (or have the hassle of pirating it)
Its not much of a hassle. Er, so I'm told.
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I do unix development (enterprise web applications for the DoD), but I am forced to suffer through the use of windows by my IT department because they can't take up 4.5 gigs of ram (on a machine that has only 4 gigs of ram) on their spyware and virus scans if I was using any other OS. On linux or unix, they wouldn't be able make my JVM fail to start due to not enough memory, or delete my JDK because they wanted to update java to a version later than the one required by the god damn government contract, and
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Pretty much the only reason I don't virtualize windows and use another host OS is due to games not virtualizing well. However everything else can virtualize just fine.
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Started Using Ubuntu when Steam rolled out - I can definitely assure the Linux developers the easiest way to proportionally reduce my use of windows is to increase the proportion of linux gaming.
Please save me from Windows 8 and the trainwreck that follows!
signed - ex microsoft shill
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Well we've got linux on server and on mobile, if we get consoles this year, I'll settle for desktop in 2014.
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By 2014 the desktop will be a special-purpose device only, with a market consisting mostly of development and server machines (which linux already has a health share of now). No victory there.
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Except server machines are a class of their own, not desktops. Oops. Okay, I'm going to go have some more coffee.
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Except 2007 was the year of the "set you could not put a box on top of".
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Even bigger contributor to Linux gaming is Unity3D.
A lot of new games are developed using this relatively cheap/easy tool to create games, where the community shares free or for a small charge scripts/pre build packages and the game can be compiled for almost every platform.
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Wish I had a mod point for you. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wish I had a mod point for you. (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is the real problem. Most people I've seen who say it's bad haven't even used it. In the future, it should become the de-facto Windows gaming iteration, as they cleaned up and refined the graphics systems.
Re:Wish I had a mod point for you. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've used it. Fairly extensively over the past few months, much to my chagrin
Both of my younger sisters were gifted with Windows 8 laptops last Christmas, and figuring out how to set them up has been harder than learning Linux. And I'm an MCSE. Not that the cert means all that much, but I've always leaned Windows-way for the majority of my computing needs, only delving into *nix for some back end stuff and my HTPC.
Up until now, even the bad versions of windows (ME, Vista, etc) were at least functional and somewhat familiar. I could use them, even if they crapped their pants every hour or two. With windows 8, this is no longer the case. Maybe windows 9 will rectify this, but by then it might be too late.
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Most people I've seen who say it's bad haven't even used it.
Care to cite some evidence?
I don't doubt that *many* of the people who say it's bad haven't used it, but I have already heard from many people who say it's bad and have used it. I've used it. It's bad.
Not that it's all bad. There have been many improvements, both under the hood and in the visible feature set. If they hadn't forced the Metro UI (or whatever they're calling it) on desktop users, it would be a good upgrade to Windows 7. However, the new UI is terrible. I've even used it on tablets, and
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Which is the real problem. Most people I've seen who say it's bad haven't even used it. In the future, it should become the de-facto Windows gaming iteration, as they cleaned up and refined the graphics systems.
I use it. I have to, as that's what we use at work. There is nothing about it that's any good. If you install Classic Shell, it's tolerable, except for when you click on a file that ends up opening a metro app and then you have to fix the association so it won't ever do it again.
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I've used it, and I don't like it. It's an unpleasant mess of poorly thought out interface paradigms, hacked together without much thought. And I'm not saying that as some sort of desktop purist- I've used and like (to a point) Unity, Android on a large screen, KDE4, Mac...
I'm a Linux user, but I've always purchased a gaming machine with Windows on it. I currently have a gaming desktop with a (legitimate and paid for) Win7 install (dual booting with Ubuntu) for playing games on. And I'm perfectly happy with
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like this might finally be the year.
That's almost comical because we've been asking ourselves that question for so many years. Valve has got a good thing going, but until we start seeing mainstream games on Steam being released with Linux binaries, all Valve is doing is prolonging another inevitable Fail.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud Valve for what they are doing. It takes a lot of balls to take on the Console/Windows gaming behemoth and I think it takes keen insight to recognize the death of your product coming down the road because your main support platform went full-retard. BUT it doesn't feel good to sit at a Linux Steam console staring at all the cool games for Windows, and 90% of Linux selections are stuff repackaged from the Humble Bundles. When a new game comes out, the people on Linux Steam want to be able to play it too. When the industry gets to that point, the everyday Linux desktop headaches may offset the Windows ones enough to make make "YotLD" viable.
Also I am not sure it will work so well (Score:2)
We'll actually get to see a bit in a year or so, as there are some bigger games coming to Linux. A few Kickstarter titles have pledged Linux support as there were some vocal calls for it from backers.
I think though that Linux users are going to be a little disappointed with the results. The graphics driver situation with regards to hardware OpenGL support is pretty bad in Linux. The only driver that seems to support current features, in hardware, without blowing up is the binary nVidia driver.
So the games m
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I can't help but remain skeptical. So far, the frothing at the mouth against Windows 8 is pretty much just a computer-enthusiast thing and of that group not all are united.
Throwing out ideals such as good and evil, open-source and closed, and good or bad design - it all comes down to: 1) Which OS comes with Average Joe's PC. 2) Which OS runs the apps Average Joe has already. 3)Which interface is less of a pain in the butt to learn for Average Joe.
In that order.
That said, if PC usage continues to decline,
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Interesting)
Valve is heading towards Linux because they see where Microsoft is heading. Microsoft is pulling an Apple style lock - in with the new interface and will slowly remove support for the old one. They don't want to pay the cut of all sales that Microsoft will demand. I'm quite surprised more people haven't realised this ... But perhaps I'm just paranoid.
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, they've said this is the exact reason they're jumping ship. Microsoft doesn't want a cut of Steam's sales. Microsoft fully intends to replace Steam and other digital distribution channels with the Windows Store. Simple as that.
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Yup, and this is likely the motivation behind UEFI Secure Boot. It sounds great - who would turn down "better security" - but it really does mean better security - for Microsoft, who can be sure that they can prevent a machine running anything they haven't cryptographically signed themselves. Not yet, but this is one of those things where you can easily see which way they want the wind to blow. They are setting up the same walled garden as Apple has in iOS.
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This is a target-specific device (gaming console), not a traditional desktop. It doesn't bring Linux any closer to the desktop than the explosion of Android phones did.
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marketplace lock-in
Huh? What lock-in? Last I checked I could still install software from any source I wanted to, unless this has changed in the last half hour.
. A lot of people always claimed that games were the only reason they were still on Windows.
For me this is still part of the reason I stick with it (the other being some profession software, with no fully comparable Linux peers yet), but sadly even with Steam, Linux isn't there yet. Perhaps we're closer to the day when it is possible for a gamer to switch, which is progress, but we're still probably years off.
What we need is the major publishers to jump on
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I'm fairly sure that you can only install applications in the new Interface through the Microsoft market. I'm also fairly sure that the old interface will disappear. Valve is just a little quicker than most in picking of this up.
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I'm not talking about tablets here, I'm talking about the desktop. Even with 'Pro' you can't I don't think you can install applications that use the new interface other than through their market. Using the old interface yes, but as I said, I think you'll see that disappear. You think the timing of 'secure boot' was an accident? They know it'll scare off a lot of people and they want to make it as hard as possible to leave.
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The "Modern" environment, from day one, only allows installations of software signed by Microsoft. Ditto for anything using the WinRT APIs.
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It looks like this might finally be the year. With Windows 8 throwing a lot of users away with a bad interface and a marketplace lock-in, The timing is pretty good. A lot of people always claimed that games were the only reason they were still on Windows.
Games and Office. As good as the linux alternatives are to MS Office, they fall short on the business desktop.
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, as far as marketplace lock-in, that's complete rubbish. I've installed all my own applications, haven't had to use a single one from the Windows / Metro thingy, most of the time I don't even realise I'm on a new OS. It's somewhat faster than Win7, though that difference isn't huge.
All that being said, I still prefer Linux, I'm one of those who have specific applications packages for work reasons which have to use Windows. But Win8 isn't the big loss for M$ that you make it out to be.
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No, it's not. You just don't realize it because.
Of course you don't have to. Yet. You also haven't used anything built on the WinRT APIs. You also aren't using Windows RT devices.
But make no mistake: Microsoft wants that aspect of Windows gone. And they'll keep marginalizing it and pushing the APIs that give them more control.
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Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:4, Informative)
Unless you are really willing to spend $1000 on a software tool, most of what you posted is nonsense.
Games are an interesting problem but that's being addressed by Valve.
Obscure vertical market apps are interesting of course but only for small subsets of the total market of Windows users. For people that don't need to run some sort of office of some particular type, those vertical apps might as well not exist.
That's why you can't name drop any of them, in stark contrast to perhaps to a single video,audio, or CAD tool that costs more than you are willing to spend.
Small business may remain Microsoft's saving grace as end users defect to tablets and larger corporations migrate to platform independent solutions.
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Depending on what you get, that "CAD" software it can cost even more (~6k for Synchro, which is a 4D BIM/VDC application). What's left unmentioned are the DCC programs used to create content for games. The big companies behind these are slow to port their software to Linux.
That said, I work at a small-medium sized construction company. I know a couple coworkers who have been given Surface Pros (I bought one for myself the day it came out). These tablets are faster than their old computer, and when they g
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Back in the 1990s AutoDesk released software for other platforms -- I own AutoSketch for the Acorn Archimedes, and Wikipedia suggests that was released on Atari too. It probably won't be fast, and we probably won't hear about it until it's ready, but there's no technical reason AutoDesk must stick to Windows.
(My dad taught engineering drawing in secondary schools in the 1980s and early 1990s (before the subject was abandoned). He also taught bitmap computer graphics. Most of my childhood art is computer
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I've just read the Wikipedia page -- apparently there's AutoCAD for Mac OS already.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD#Mac_OS [wikipedia.org]
I'm amazed they sell the light version through the App store -- don't Apple take a hefty cut of those sales?
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Yeah, I heard somewhere that many schools avoid subjects like that now in order to meet grading standards. But when I was going to middle school in the late 90s I had this awesome computer class tought by a guy named Mr. Wilson. The iMac and iBook had just come out, and the class upgraded over the break so I applied to come back to it the next year. I had my first introduction to 3d graphics on the desktop the very last day of that year. I don't remember the name of it but it was something simple like Trues
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Yeah, I heard somewhere that many schools avoid subjects like that now in order to meet grading standards.
In this case, the government removed the subject from the official curriculum (British students can choose what they study, at age 14-16 and again at 16-18, from what a school offers. The school chooses what to offer from what the government permits).
I don't know why -- I was only about 6 years old. I remember my dad being really sad that the subject he'd taught for 15 years or so, in a rough area but in a city known for good engineering (making it a subject the usually "mischievous" boys actually liked a
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Most "CAD" usage can be done in sketchup or similar software available on linux. You only need autocad and the other heavy hitters if you are doing more analytical work.
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you only need the "heavy hitters" for designing real things in the real world: buildings, bridges, dams, machined parts, etc.
too bad open source world doesn't have viable solution yet.
Re:Year of the Linux Desktop? (Score:4, Insightful)
Its an extremely limited technical market. One that does not strongly overlap with programming. Open source OS's exist because programmers use OS's. Open source development environments exist because developers use IDE's. Open source games exist because developers play games.
Open source solutions will exist as soon as YOU and your fellow architects/engineers make them, that is no different than any other field.
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Small business may remain Microsoft's saving grace as end users defect to tablets and larger corporations migrate to platform independent solutions.
Don't you mean web applications and Java 1.0? Oh right it's not 1995 anymore, but if history doesn't repeat itself I do feel it rhyme. I predict that in another 10 years Slashdot will still be predicting the imminent doom of Microsoft....
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Can you explain how this is expressed in the Linux world? I know unsubstantiated claims made to attack Linux are acceptable (unlike every other platform) but I insist that you expand upon this.
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Re:Maybe (Score:5, Informative)
As desktop, Linux still sucks
...for you. Which is fine. I love it and use it every day.
Windows have serious security problems, etc etc but it does not break the existing applications on each relevant update and have behavior/interface consistence
There's an argument to made that this has happened in the Windows world a few times, but I digress. Gnome fucked up badly with Gnome 3. We get that. A lot of us still hold a grudge against them for that. That sort of update is in the minority. Most (as in 99.9%) updates I install work without any sort of configuration changes needed, and as an additional nice point, don't require a reboot (usually only kernel updates need a reboot in Linux).
I'm not trying to sell you, I'm just pointing out that what you've heard doesn't mesh with my experience.
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Most (as in 99.9%) updates I install work without any sort of configuration changes needed, and as an additional nice point, don't require a reboot (usually only kernel updates need a reboot in Linux).
I've never had the kernel go down, but I've been forced to kill the X server quite a few times and early KDE4 made unrecoverable barfs on top of X a few times too. So as a server sure it can have years of uptime, but as a desktop it doesn't really live up to its reputation. That it doesn't go down for planned updates is nice but the unplanned are the worst anyway and the difference between a reboot and and X reset is minimal to a desktop.
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Re:Maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, when is a user of Ubuntu, particularly a non-technical user, ever going to do that?
Your arguments are more incomplete, inconsistent, or simply broken than the platform you're trying to attack is.
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"If it works for me then have to work for everyone"... It is this way of thinking that makes the desktop linux the problem it is today.
Nowhere have I indicated this. Your claim was the following: "The kernel Linux is stable, but the software needed to make the desktop work are incomplete, inconsistent or simply broken." One working instance is a rebuttal of that claim (notwithstanding the fact that I have used many different distros on a wide variety of hardware). Furthermore, I know for a fact that the default Ubuntu install works fine with few changes. It may not be what you personally would like, and it may not have the latest softw
Ooooh, maybe I can run the distribution on my PS3! (Score:3, Funny)
I would buy a Steam Box if... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) The hardware is open so that you can (if you wish) put a different Linux distribution on it.
2) If the Steam Box software works on any distribution you so install.
3) The games are protected only by Steam's own DRM and not encumbered by anything more onerous.
4) All games use the controller. The keyboard and mouse can be an option, but it should not be the only option.
I know this makes it nothing more than a nice small form factor PC with a standard spec. I'm happy for it to be exactly that.
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1/2) Install other distros
I belive they have said they want to make it open enough to potentially run Windows, so I think other distros should run fine (well, except if the distro doesn't provide enough up-to-date bits).
3) The games are protected only by Steam's own DRM and not encumbered by anything more onerous.
That's all games made by Valve. Other companies can include worse DRM, but I don't think they will be able to get root. So they are stuck with always online DRM; which means I won't consider th
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2) If the Steam Box software works on any distribution you so install.
I'm sure Steam will relish the job of maintaining their software on, and providing support to the users of, every distribution. Lucky there's not many of them, then!
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I'm sure Steam
Valve. I meant Valve!
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1. I think this is required as part of the GPL. And Valve hasn't tried to stop running their games on other distros.
2. Not possible. Some distributions will simply be incompatible by their design. It would be up to each distro to ensure compatibility.
3. Their DRM is their DRM. As per #1 and #2, I don't think they will do any hardware DRM integration.
4. I don't think they will include a keyboard and mouse, so a developer that requires one would face an uphill battle. I don't think Valve will completely ban t
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#1 is required only as a facet of the GPLv3.
#2 is where obscure distros leverage their userbase. Thus Steam for Linux is already running on many distros other than just Ubuntu, even if Valve doesn't officially support them.
Realistic response (Score:2)
1) The hardware is open so that you can (if you wish) put a different Linux distribution on it.
2) If the Steam Box software works on any distribution you so install.
3) The games are protected only by Steam's own DRM and not encumbered by anything more onerous.
4) All games use the controller. The keyboard and mouse can be an option, but it should not be the only option.
I know this makes it nothing more than a nice small form factor PC with a standard spec. I'm happy for it to be exactly that.
1) Why? Most users will see the box as "yet another console", if you need a PC... well... Buy a PC?
2) theoretically possible, but in practice impossible. Few developers have the resources to make the software compatible with the 2^n existing Linux distros, and would be enough one of them to change anything to throw out this work.
3) Possible
4) Well, is a "console" so I think that all games will use joystick by default as on any other console. And yes, it would be useful to have the option to use ke
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MOBA's are essentially action RPG's with RTS elements so it would be possible to do a controller centric control scheme... in fact it's already been done. Google "Guardians of Middle Earth"
And it's also possible to do an RTS with a controller, considering it's been done before. The only controls an RTS absolutely needs are a pointer, a way to move a pointer, an ability to select onscreen elements, and an ability to cancel. Everything else is extra. So basically a joypad and two buttons are all you real
Controllers.... (Score:3)
It is possible.
But you will see the same thing happen as when Unreal had a console release capable of using keyboard/mouse. The controller monkeys were crushed. You have no fine granular input with a controller. You have a very limited number of executions with a controller whereas with a kbd/mouse your actions per second are MUCH higher.
More info (Score:2)
This could, potentially, be a very big deal. But we need more info:
Price point?
Does it do media?
Can we modify the OS?
Will it come with a decent solution to the "Keyboards from the couch suck" problem?
I have a lot of hope here for Valve, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
In theory... (Score:2)
which looks like their first-generation operating system will be derived from Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS
In theory, this means support for Radeon 2000 through 4000 GPU's if they stick with X.Org 1.12 (AMD refuses to support those GPU's - not all of which can be considered dated in the least - in 12.10/X.org 1.13).
Question from a Linux noob (Score:2)
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Well, ten years is a lot of time. Perhaps you should grab a distro and try it out?
No, all executable binaries and libraries are ELF.
Well, no. Linux doesn't behave like Windows.
Viruses are not what you should be concerned about. Trojans and other such packages are a problem a
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The other post hit most of the points, but regarding software compatibility.
As long as the game is static-compiled as one big binary then for the most part you can just download, chmod, and run it. It won't be able to modify /bin/bash, but it sure can read your firefox password store and upload it to who-knows-where. It will also eat gobs of RAM, and if glibc was statically linked then it will be sensitive to any system call changes.
As soon as the game is dynamically linked, then it starts becoming distro
Re:Debian? EWWWWW... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Debian? EWWWWW... (Score:4, Informative)
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He's a time traveller, you insensitive clod!
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A game "concole"?
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An adverb should not be placed between the verb it is modifying, and the direct object [grammarly.com].
The sentence could be corrected by moving "necessary" after the direct object:
"...a game console that will make their own Linux-based software platform necessary,"
(This assumes the term "correct grammar" is defined as a description of how most native speakers speak, rather than a prescription of rules to make oneself understood.)
Re:please, whynot a simple debian base, *buntu fub (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, first of all, they're going to derive their distro from Ubuntu. This is sort of like Mint which I, a former Ubuntu user, currently run. I would guess that much of what has frustrated Ubuntu users will be excluded and replaced with custom, in-house frustrations. Secondly, "all real linux users"? I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. A Linux user, by definition, is a person who uses Linux. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution. Therefore, a person who uses Ubuntu is also a Linux user. There is no place for "real" qualifiers to enter this any more than someone can be a "real bachelor" or a "true Scotsman". To count oneself a real Linux user and to deny that to others who happen to use a distro one doesn't like is just self-indulgent.
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Well, first of all, they're going to derive their distro from Ubuntu
Which means it's going to be even further from base Debian. Which emphasizes OP's point, wtf is wrong with Debian?
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Ubuntu makes it easier to use proprietary drivers, and Valve probably rightly assumes that most people that want to play proprietary games through a proprietary DRM-lite storefront will want this. Don't know if that outweighs all the other downsides to Ubuntu but it's something.
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How can it be easier than 'apt-get install nvidia-glx'?
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How can it be easier than 'apt-get install nvidia-glx'?
A preinstalled driver, where you don't have to type in *anything*.
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Which means it's going to be even further from base Debian. Which emphasizes OP's point, wtf is wrong with Debian?
Debian Stable is over two years old at the moment and tends to be outdated even when it is brand new.
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by 'real' I mean people who actually know what a kernel is vs those that don't...
This elitist attitude is damaging to Linux. Users who don't know what a kernel is would normally be called a typical user. If anything, people who know what a kernel is aren't "real" users in that they don't represent the vast overwhelming majority of computer users.
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This elitist attitude is damaging to Linux.
Define "damaging."
If it means it will prevent mass adoption, sure. If it means that Linux will die, then no - that attitude has been around for decades and it hasn't died yet.
If anything, people who know what a kernel is aren't "real" users in that they don't represent the vast overwhelming majority of computer users.
They represent me though, which is all I really care about. I don't contribute to FOSS so that somebody's grandma can use it. I mean, sure, I'm happy if they can and all, but that isn't really the reason I do it. I contribute to FOSS because I find it useful and would like to make it more useful. That generally means that I'm help
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Suing? I expect Valve is more knowledgeable about the GPL and needing to be compliant than most.
First, what is Livelink? Second, what makes you think they wouldn't?
I love unsubstan
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But are they likely to?
Doh, I meant to type Linux. Livelink is ECM software, and I type it more often than Linux.
What makes me think they wouldn't? Large amounts of companies who make closed products using GPL software and then claim they can't release their proprietary changes and the fact that I think companies will usually try sneak around i
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I think you totally missed his point.
He's not even slightly arguing that Linux isn't ubiquitous.
He's saying that the only remaining legitimate excuse to have a Windows partition at all is gaming.
A point I for one very much agree with.
I can't wait for the day when its the norm for premium games to be available as native Linux versions.
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Please ignore my earlier response. my browser seemed to have f*'d up making me think you were responding to another thread.