Microsoft Will Allow Indie Self-publishing, Debugging On Retail Xbox One 99
tlhIngan writes "Microsoft was the last platform manufacturer to require that all games go through publishers, a much hated policy. Indeed, their approval process was one of the harshest around. But now Microsoft will allow indie developers to self publish, and allow retail Xbox One units to serve as developer consoles. Previously, self-publishing developers were relegated to the 'Xbox Live Indie Arcade' section, as well as developer consoles often costing upwards of $10,000 with special requirements and NDAs. This puts Microsoft's Xbox One more in line with Apple's App Store, including Microsoft's new promise of a 14-day turnaround for approvals. Microsoft's retail debug console system is to work similarly to Apple's — that is, to run pre-release code, the individual consoles used have to be registered with Microsoft."
Very tempting (Score:4, Insightful)
If it gives me programatic access to the video stream as they were showing in some of the demos... it would be very interesting indeed.
If it's just games, that's nice for a lot of people but not as exciting in terms of something really new.
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I can't see why anyone would bother with any of the new consoles. All of them are locked down, and all of them have at least some DRM.
Re:Very tempting (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't see why anyone would bother with any of the new consoles. All of them are locked down, and all of them have at least some DRM.
Thing is if what you're interested in is playing games - which is what most people who buy games consoles are after - then it's not that much different on the PC, the games publishers are the ones that force the DRM and the platform is irrelevant, just look at EA and Ubisoft games on PC. If you're interested in tinkering (which let's face it, relatively not many people are) then you'd use a PC or an Ouya.
So I can see why people would bother with consoles, 'locked down' and DRM isn't going to be a problem for most people - check out the popularity of iOS devices as an example.
Potential for bypass (Score:2)
Have you already forgotten about all the DRM crap they were going to, and probably still will, stick in.
Using it as a development system potentially allows you to bypass much of the DRM to do your own thing... just as an iOS developer can do whatever they like with apps they write for personal use.
But realistically, the DRM aspect never really bothered me since it's pervasive now, especially with media. As long as I feel fine with every purchase in reality being a rental (even though they claim you are "b
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Using it as a development system potentially allows you to bypass much of the DRM to do your own thing
Taking bets now on whether 'registering with Microsoft' to turn your console into a devkit entails regular (or continuous) sign-ins when running unsigned code. Couldn't let people run what they wanted on consumer devices without some way to limit it, because piracy might somehow spontaneously occur!
Yep! (Score:3, Informative)
On the Xbox 360, you can use a retail console as a (limited) devkit for developing Xbox Live Indie Games with XNA. This requires two things: XBLIG Membership attached to your Xbox Live account, and the development/debug tool installed on the Xbox 360 (XNA Game Studio Connect). XNA Game Studio Connect requires you to be signed in to Xbox Live with an account with XBLIG membership before it will launch unsigned code. If at any time during execution of unsigned code your network connection drops, or you sign o
Urk (Score:5, Insightful)
If at any time during execution of unsigned code your network connection drops, or you sign out of Xbox Live, the hypervisor/debugger forcefully resets the console.
Well that sounds really un-appealing, I have to say... I develop a lot of times in places where I have spotty connectivity. I'll for sure wait and see what reports are like in developing for the system before I spring for one...
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I develop a lot of times in places where I have spotty connectivity.
When in such areas, develop your XNA game as if it were an XNA game for Windows PCs, and work on the port to the Xbox family platform only when you have a quality Internet connection. I get the same problem: I do some development work on a laptop on the bus, where I can't test on the ultimate target platform.
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It's no different than if you sign into Xbox Live and play a game you bought there - if your network connection drops, b
No, no NO! This is the TRUTH (Score:2)
This is MS final policy on DRM and everything else, until the NEXT time they change their mind...
It is one of MS biggest failings, they change their mind at the drop of a hat/stock price and have turned burning bridges into an art.
You only got to follow PC gaming and MS attitude towards it to see that MS has the attention pan of a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs being thrown around by Ballmer.
Policy update to follow in: 3... 2... 1...
Re:Very tempting (Score:4, Interesting)
If it's just games, that's nice for a lot of people but not as exciting in terms of something really new.
I don't think it's supposed to be new. It's aimed at indie devs and people like me who teach game development where we cannot justify real development kits to be handed to students (what could possibly go wrong? Oh.. right... students).
The thing is, the Xbox3 is basically a PC, so for anything really 'new' you have PC development to demo it, and then pitch that to someone who has money to let you buy a development kit if you want it. If you just want to make a game, this works well.
Potential (Score:2)
I don't think it's supposed to be new.
Probably not, but the thing is there is *potential* for something new here beyond just writing games for some other system. That's what interests me most.
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...The thing is, the Xbox3 is basically a PC
Which is different from the XBox and XBox2, how?
And it's not "XBox3", it's "XBox One", sometimes abbreviated "XBOne" (but I prefer "XBone").
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The Xbox2 was Power PC. But yes, for our purposes basically a PC.
It's the 3rd Xbox, so Xbox3. Whatever MS marketing wants to call it is irrelevant to what it is. I am very much aware what they are calling it, and very deliberately not going along with it.
In the context of the discussion though, my point was that an xbox dev kit isn't going to let you do something you can't do on a PC, given that there is a kinect SDK already. Anything interesting you can do on an Xbox you can prototype on PC first, and
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If you're thinking you're going to get access to the unencrypted blu-ray disc stream, you can forget it sparky.
Finally, someone to watch me code (Score:1, Interesting)
In the voice of a British peasant (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, thank you, sir! For the privilege of accessing the hardware I have paid you money for, I am forever grateful! Next I should like to beg to turn off the camera feeding directly to the American authorities. Is such a dream possible?
Your faithful servants,
Those Who Haven't Heard About the PS4
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dont be such a submissive corporate fuckpig
Says the anonymous coward defending Microsoft over DRM and openness...
I do have to say that I was wrong... I had no idea Microsoft reversed their policies on everything they announced at E3. I haven't owned anything since the Dreamcast, so the console nonsense doesn't matter either way. I did think it was hilarious that those idiots tried to get away with it, though. Additionally, Donn Mattrick's whiney, foot stomping press release is priceless. [gameological.com] Imagine how many meetings and buzzwords evaporated just becaus
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dont be such a submissive corporate fuckpig
Says the anonymous coward defending Microsoft over DRM and openness...
I have to admit, I loled.
Re:In the voice of a British peasant (Score:4, Insightful)
So objecting to "you bought it but we still get to control how you use it" is somehow "entitlist"?
I agree people shouldn't buy shackled hardware in the first place, but that doesn't mean that it's in any way ethical to sell it. And claiming that the public has made an informed decision by choosing heavily marketed closed systems over the essentially unmarketed open alternatives doesn't pass the laugh test.
-- MarkusQ
Re:In the voice of a British peasant (Score:5, Insightful)
It's elitist because GGP is suggesting buying the PS4 instead. After all the crap Sony pulled, I wouldn't trust them either...
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Just don't tell anyone else about it. And definitely don't tell them how you did it- that's copyright violation, dmca, wire-fraud, etc, etc.
I'm fairly sure doing what you want with the hardware you own isn't any of those things.
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I would agree but that doesn't stop some pretty powerful players from attacking you.
Citation provided: Sony Computer Entertainment America v. George Hotz [wikipedia.org]
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So how exactly do you propose to use hardware without using software? How do you run your own software on something with an encrypted bootloader without reverse engineering the software to learn how it works? How would you use your xbox one, which is exactly what this thread is about and is locked down exactly the same as the ps3, without using a similar process George Hotz did to the PS3?
Are you purposefully being disingenuous or are you actually just that dense? Sometimes it's hard to tell on Slashdot.
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So how exactly do you propose to use hardware without using software?
Not quite sure why you're asking me that, I don't propose anything, though I guess you would have to write your own software since you own hardware but don't own any software.
How do you run your own software on something with an encrypted bootloader without reverse engineering the software to learn how it works?
Again I'm not quite sure why you're asking me that, I don't know, but certainly a lot of open source developers build drivers for hardware without reverse-engineering existing software, not exactly something I would bother with frankly, probably just go with a PC or an Ouya or something like that.
How would you use your xbox one, which is exactly what this thread is about and is locked down exactly the same as the ps3, without using a similar process George Hotz did to the PS3?
If I wanted to do that I wouldn't buy a
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Well you see: this thread was about using hardware you bought. In this case, specifically, the xbox one. Now you and at least one other person came in and said that you can use the hardware you bought any way that you want. I just laid out some very specific and real reasons why you cannot use hardware that you bought and own.
You cannot say that you "own" the hardware and can use it however when you are legally disallowed from actually using however. That is the entire topic of discussion here. Stop ma
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I just laid out some very specific and real reasons why you cannot use hardware that you bought and own.
But you're wrong, I outlined exactly why you are wrong and you're just complaining that it's difficult. I can't run OSX on my Android tablet but that doesn't mean I cannot use the hardware I bought and own, the problem is software and software licensing, not hardware.
You cannot say that you "own" the hardware and can use it however when you are legally disallowed from actually using however.
You aren't legally disallowed from using it however you want, just try and actually think about it, take the software out of the equation (because you don't own that) and then you are free to do whatever you want with the hardware, what you wan
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Your inability to understand that hardware (especially a computing device) is useless without software is mind-numbing.
Your arguments are asinine. Your choices to use these computers are "do it like this" or "shut it off". Nobody but an idiot or a corporate shill would claim that those two options are "how ever you want". You cannot use a computer without software because the software is what runs the hardware (do you actually know how a computer works?)
It is not that it is hard; it is in matter of fa
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Your inability to understand that hardware (especially a computing device) is useless without software is mind-numbing.
I'm quite aware hardware is useless without software, but things like openiboot enabled that on the iphone and there is no reason that couldn't happen on xbox hardware.
You cannot use a computer without software because the software is what runs the hardware (do you actually know how a computer works?)
The fact that you are saying this means you are clearly not able to comprehend what has been written, nobody is disputing this, you just have this idiotic idea that hardware only works with the software provided with it, why do you think that?
It is not that it is hard; it is in matter of fact impossible. Locked boot-loaders, hypervisors, protected paths. How do you devise getting these to work without the software they have been locked to? Really, please.
Yeah, nobody ever managed to get around locked bootloaders *rollseyes* And these 'hypervisors' and 'p
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You have three options for learning how hardware works and writing your own software.
1. You can use trial and error and hope you don't break it and hope you figure out enough to do anything with before the universe experiences heat death.
2. You can get an electron microscope and use it to give you a slight leg-up on option 1.
3. You can circumvent digital locks and reverse engineer the currently running software.
Which option do you think every successful attempt uses?
Additionally, because it happened on
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Which option do you think every successful attempt uses?
Just to clarify, what you're saying is that projects like Noveau, openiboot, XBMC, etc... are all illegal?
* not legal in the United States. Most of these projects get around that by not being based in the United States.
Well I'm not in the US, most people are not in the US, the problem is with the US legal system and the unwillingness of its population to do anything about it.
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Just to clarify, what you're saying is that projects like Noveau, openiboot, XBMC, etc... are all illegal?
The projects themselves? Probably not. But the act of installing them and telling others how to install them most likely is. Breaking a locked bootloader would definitely fall under anti-circumvention laws (yes it is ridiculous). Having XBMC on your original Xbox probably was though because it required breaking copy protection and as far as I know still allowed you to connect to the xbox network? I might be wrong there but that's the kind of thing you get computer / wire fraud thrown into your list of ch
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Genres other than FPS, RTS, and MMORPG (Score:3)
the pc has been out for decades, and decades of openness hasnt provided consumers a better experience than the closed systems
For one thing, not everybody agrees on what constitutes a "better experience". Some people prefer one-button installs (compared to a typical Windows installer "wizard"). Some people prefer not having to mess with third-party antivirus and third-party video card driver updates in addition to operating system updates. Some people don't want a big, noisy tower next to the TV. And some people are fans of genres other than FPS, RTS, and MMORPG. Some genres, such as platformers, fighting games, kart racers, rhyth
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Oh, thank you, sir! For the privilege of accessing the hardware I have paid you money for, I am forever grateful! Next I should like to beg to turn off the camera feeding directly to the American authorities. Is such a dream possible?
Yes, yes it is. As they have said, countless times, you can disable the Kinect entirely if you so desire. If you have any proof whatsoever that data from XBoxes/Kinects are being sent to any US authorities (without a fully authorised warrant being issued), do please point to it, post it, or something similar. Otherwise it's just rampant, and damaging, speculation on your part.
Except, of course, that you're just a troll, and all you can do is innuendo and speculation to try and shill for your particular corp
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Yes, yes it is
No, no it isn't. You can disable the standby mode in software but the console needs it plugged in to work. Unless you physically unplug it ever single time you turn the console off there is nothing to stop MS inserting a backdoor for the FBI/CIA/NSA/GCHQ that lets them silently turn it back on whenever they like.
If you have any proof whatsoever that data from XBoxes/Kinects are being sent to any US authorities
I think it's safe to assume everything accessible to Microsoft is accessible to them now.
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Probably only verifiable .NET code (Score:3)
I'm going to guess that they'll only allow independent developers to use verifiable .NET code in their games. Allowing native code is exceptionally dangerous, because it multiplies the attack surface by several times. It's almost guaranteed that sandboxes running native code will have escape bugs on release day.
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Or this pressure could come from Valve/SteamBox or an unforeseen marketplace entry.
The PSP and the Nintendo DS are on their last legs due to iPads/Android/iPods/maybe Kindles too, it is only a
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One day vs. 30 (Score:2)
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You know, for somebody who *sounds* like you're anti-DRM, that sure isn't reflected in your actions. If you want MS (and the other big players; they all watch each other) to reduce DRM in the future, reward them for *not* locking down the console like they originally planned to do. They listened to customer feedback. They responded. They made the right choice... and for that, you propose to punish them? Wow, that's a great plan right there. Which message do you think will be taken away from that?
1) Well, lo
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There is a class of people - often very vocal - that will dismiss anything that comes from Microsoft or Apple or Sony on the basis that it's not free and open but I really have to wonder what would we actually get if they were?
If the XBox or Playstation were open they would just be pretty average, overpriced PCs. But we already have PCs so why would we want that?
People used openiboot to install Linux on the iPhone but aside from the ability to do it what good was it? Why not just get an Android phone?
Even f
Same-screen multiplayer; carrying three tablets (Score:2)
If the XBox or Playstation were open they would just be pretty average, overpriced PCs. But we already have PCs so why would we want that?
People who want a box whose industrial design doesn't stick out like a sore thumb next to a television. People who play games other than FPS and RTS, games whose multiplayer mode uses one screen and up to four gamepads, such as platformers, fighting games, and rhythm games. Multiplayer PC games, on the other hand, have tended to require a separate computer, monitor, OS license, and game license per player [cracked.com].
Why not get an already available Linux tablet?
Because there weren't credible Linux tablets between the release of the original iPad and the release o
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People who want a box whose industrial design doesn't stick out like a sore thumb next to a television.
So like I said, niche. You actually believe that Sony and Microsoft are the only ones capable of an aesthetically pleasing industrial design? Please.
People who play games other than FPS and RTS, games whose multiplayer mode uses one screen and up to four gamepads, such as platformers, fighting games, and rhythm games. Multiplayer PC games, on the other hand, have tended to require a separate computer, monitor, OS license, and game license per player [cracked.com].
You've missed the point, if you want open hardware then - even if they were open - why would you choose the Playstation or XBox? For innovation that requires open hardware you can already do everything on the PC (or perhaps the Ouya). All the things you listed aren't console-exclusive, you can easily do that on the PC.
Because there weren't credible Linux tablets between the release of the original iPad and the release of the Xoom
Read the question you responded to, what yo
Majority don't give a frak about openness (Score:2)
You actually believe that Sony and Microsoft are the only ones capable of an aesthetically pleasing industrial design?
True, Apple and many local PC builders offer pleasing cases. But do the majority of people think to buy a PC from Apple or from local PC builders? Among PCs sold in Walmart and Best Buy and the like that aren't laptops, most are Big Honkin' Towers.
You've missed the point, if you want open hardware then - even if they were open - why would you choose the Playstation or XBox?
Most people do not care whether the hardware next to the TV is "open". They care whether they can get a particular title and how easy games are to install. People who care about open hardware are a niche.
All the things you listed aren't console-exclusive, you can easily do that on the PC.
Have you any recommendations for good platform fighters (lik
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Car Analogy (Score:1, Interesting)
Ford Will Allow Indie Driving, Sightseeing On Retail Focus
"Ford was the last automobile manufacturer to require that all routes go through manufacturers, a much hated policy. Indeed, their approval process was one of the harshest around. But now Ford will allow indie drivers to self guide, and allow retail Focus units to serve as tourism vehicles. Previously, self-guiding drivers were relegated to the 'Ford Indie Car Track' section, as well as route design vehicles often costing upwards of $100,000 with spe
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Ford doesn't take responsibility for the quality of the highways and what happens on them, although that would let them sell more trucks. (The Turnpike, now with 99% less accidents and Smoothdrive(TM)!) Microsoft does take responsiblity for the quality of Xbox games and what happens on the Live service, using that as a selling point.
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AOL is a good comparison. They had their own little corner with its own content, which AOL built and maintained, and when you paid for AOL you paid for that safe - but restricted - little selection. You might think that's a dumb idea and prefer to go elsewhere, but that's the basic idea.
Of course this makes a games console rather like a PC that could only access AOL, which is a nightmare vision that never came to pass in this universe.
The NSA needs Xbox One sales (Score:1)
The Xbox One is riddled with two forms of evil. The one that matters is the NSA spying platform features. The one that matters less is the plethora of spiteful Microsoft restrictions.
Bill Gates and the NSA partnered to create the Xbox One. It is the Microsoft crap, not the NSA spy features, that seem to be killing enthusiasm amongst potential buyers. So, surprise surprise, bit by bit the Microsoft crap is being rolled back.
The Xbox One had possibly the worst launch ever seen. The Xbox360 is really popular,
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Developers, developers (Score:3)
developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers.
Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers *cough* developers, developers, developers.... DEVELOPERS!
Signed,
Ballmer
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Could be good. (Score:3)
1) Running native code (C/C++)
2) Running a regular Windows 8 Modern binary
3) Running DirectX 11
I'm in. They got me as a customer from day 1.
Translation: (Score:1)
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More like "Sony did it, so should we."
Has MS made a decision regarding the Xbox where they haven't backtracked to "whatever Sony is doing"? It seems like Mark Cerny has more control over the Xbox One's capabilites than Ballmer does.
Cool.. (Score:1)
That's a smart move, now I only hope Sony will do the same, they already have something like that for the retail PS-vita with its Playstation Mobile SDK.. This is also the only reason why I'm running a custom firmware on my PS3, so I can do some homebrew..
Maybe I'll just buy myself a xboxnone when I have actually already a nice app/game running, just to be able to test it and maybe even publish it..
Indie Kids (Score:1)