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Microsoft Businesses Games

Peter Molyneux: Working For Microsoft Is Like Taking Antidepressants 164

SmartAboutThings (1951032) writes "Peter Molyneux is one of the most famous personalities in the history of gaming, especially recognized for having created God games Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Black & White, but also the Fable series. After creating the Fable series, Molyneux announced in March 2012 that he will be leaving Lionhead and Microsoft to start another company – 22Cans. During a recent interview, the former Microsoft employee has shared some interesting details regarding the time when he was working over at Redmond. Here's the excerpt from his interview: 'I left Microsoft because I think when you have the ability to be a creative person, you have to take that seriously, and you have to push yourself. And pushing yourself is a lot easier to do if you're in a life raft that has a big hole in the side, and that's what I think indie development is. You're paddling desperately to get where you want to go to, but you're also bailing out. Whereas if you're in a big supertanker of safety, which Microsoft was, then that safety is like an anesthetic. It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable.'"
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Peter Molyneux: Working For Microsoft Is Like Taking Antidepressants

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  • by geekoid ( 135745 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {dnaltropnidad}> on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:32PM (#46587957) Homepage Journal

    the antidepressant myth, jerk.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:41PM (#46588069)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by geekoid ( 135745 ) <{moc.oohay} {ta} {dnaltropnidad}> on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:50PM (#46588139) Homepage Journal

        Taking anti-depressants were like a heavy weight being lifted off me. I couldn't be happier.

        Err.. I'n not implying they are happy pills, only that I am happy to have a range of emotions.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        I think it depends on the type and the dosage, for some I have herd it described as like they got back their ability to feel after it had been turned off.... for better and worse

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by AudioEfex ( 637163 )

        Yeah, I knew there would be offended folks right away when I clicked on comments - and look, it was the first one. Great reply, though.

        Don't apologize for the "rant" - you actually explained it perfectly. It's exactly what Molyneux was trying to express - you cannot take away the downs without also affecting the "ups".

        For some people, like those that cannot function properly in life because of the "lows", it's worth it or is beneficial even in some cases to limit the "ups" as well. For others, who m

        • by cyber-vandal ( 148830 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:28PM (#46588425) Homepage

          Before I started taking anti-depressants there weren't any ups. Now there are plenty. There are still downs but they don't stop me from functioning.

          • by SCPaPaJoe ( 767952 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @07:38PM (#46589281)
            Paxil saved my life. I took it for about 18 months. It allowed me time to learn to deal with my issues. That was 10 years ago. I gradually grew to not need it. Don't let anyone tell you different, for some peoples, antidepressants are a huge factor in the quality of their lives.
            • by Macgrrl ( 762836 )

              How long did it take for the side effects to stabalise? My husband recently started taking this and is struggling a bit (though not in the same way that he was imploding before starting them).

              • The side effects never really went away. I started at the doctor recommended dose but later cut it in half. That helped greatly. The hardest one for me was reduced libido. Cutting the dose in half helped that. I would describe the overall feelings as low dose LSD (I'm an old deadhead). Also BS about needing to build up levels is just that, BS. Once I weened off, I would occasionally take half when I felt the storm clouds building. Eventually I was able to just stop completely. Hope this helps. If yo
        • Not all anti-depressants smooth out both the highs/lows, some just smooth out the lows and make you more able to experience the highs. People just react differently to different meds, and the different meds have different impacts.
      • by seebs ( 15766 )

        Then they weren't working very well, I'd say. "Depression" doesn't mean "extreme sadness", and if pills are flattening out your emotional state and removing the highs, either you're bipolar and that's a really good thing for everyone including you, or something's wrong with them.

      • Strangely enough that seems to match the aftermath of my own fight against depression, thanks for the insight on how antidepressants work.
      • ^^ this. Anti-depressant is a misnomer. They are more like an emotional damping element.... a shock absorber for your mind.

        At one point in my life I was living in Seattle and did not know that drinking the tap water there is a REALLY BAD IDEA....

        Look up Manganese poisoning.... Though I have never seen a study that says so, I think Seattle's high suicide rate might be explained not by weather and SADS, but by chronic Manganese poisoning.

        I saw a doctor about some mild depressive episodes I was experienc

    • Thank you! Antidepressants frequently save the lives of depressed people, and are NOT like anesthetics.

      Sure, some people have bad reactions, but they can be invaluable. Some people have been killed by seat belts but you should consider the net effect, not the aberration. What I don't get is the notion that antidepressants can actual cause suicides. Depressed and mentally ill people kill themselves without antidepressants pretty often, so it seems like they just don't work for some people, not like they c
      • by BKX ( 5066 )

        There is some thought that those people are so depressed that they aren't even capable of marshaling the energy to commit suicide. When you give them an antidepressant, they start to become less depressed and but are still depressed enough to be suicidal, only now they have the energy to kill themselves, and so do it.

        • There is some thought that those people are so depressed that they aren't even capable of marshaling the energy to commit suicide. When you give them an antidepressant, they start to become less depressed and but are still depressed enough to be suicidal, only now they have the energy to kill themselves, and so do it.

          *citation needed

    • by Vanders ( 110092 )
      I took anti-depressants for three years. My first course was Fluoxetine (Prozac to my US cousins): within a week I was a zombie. I would sit and stare at walls, or out of windows, until someone snapped me out of it.

      After a month of this I was moved to Citalopram. This seemed better; there was less staring at walls, certainly. I spent over two years on Citalopram.

      Then one day I stopped. It was kind of an accident; it was Easter weekend, I wasn't paying attention and ran out without a prescription to get
  • by jklovanc ( 1603149 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:40PM (#46588065)

    It's like taking antidepressants.

    Peter Molyneux has probably never taken antidepressants in his life or he would not say this. Antidepressants don't make the "world just feels too comfortable". They make the world feel survivable.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by The123king ( 2395060 )
      In my experience they make the world feel survivable even when you know everything is going to shit. Seems to sum up Microsoft pretty well.
      • What you describe is "situational depression" as you are being depressed by the actual real circumstances. Antidepressants are not usually prescribed in those situations.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Bull. Shit. Antidepressants are absolutely prescribed for situational depression. Here's a recent example:

          Lacasse, J., Cacciatore, J., Prescribing of Psychiatric Medication to Bereaved Parents Following Perinatal/Neonatal Death: An Observational Study. Death Studies. DOI: 10.1080/07481187.2013.820229

          To examine psychiatric prescribing in response to perinatal neonatal death, we analyzed data from a cross-sectional survey of 235 bereaved parents participating in an online support community. Of the 88 respond

    • by Threni ( 635302 )

      Spot on - like those clowns who conflate "schizophrenia" with that (uniquely North-American) phenomenon of multiple-personality disorder.

      Also, all Molyneux's games strongly resemble the extremely tedious, if novel, Populous; they just got worse with each revision. Microsoft have released some good games over the years, but he wasn't involved in any of them.

    • Peter Molyneux making sweeping overstatements? Say it isn't so!
    • Antidepressants [...] make the world feel survivable.

      Isn't that exactly what he was saying? He was talking about how being out on his own is like having to paddle desperately while bailing water just to stay afloat, whereas working for Microsoft didn't have nearly that sense of desperation because you knew you'd survive. On one side, you're struggling for survival, on the other, there's no sense of pending doom. Seems like that corresponds to what you said.

      Yes, saying it makes the world "[feel] too comfortable" was a poor choice of words to close out his thou

      • The problem with depression is not the impending doom but the feeling of powerlessness to effect that doom. In a depressed person's mind not matter what they do they are doomed so why try. Someone paddling and bailing a leaky raft is not a good depression analogy. A better depression analogy would be a person sitting in a sinking raft doing nothing because they think that no matter what they do they will die.

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          That's one condition anti-depressants treat, sure, but it's not the only one. They also work for anxiety that's not tied to circumstance (nothing wrong, but you're panicked and stressed out anyway), which is a similar brain chemistry imbalance.

          • Being someone who has depression and anxiety I have different medications for those disorders. That is why they are called antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. There are a few that cross over but Ativan is an anti-anxiety medication and has nothing to do with depression.

            They also work for anxiety

            Some, manly SSRIs, do work on anxiety but many do not.

            The point is that antidepressants bring back reality and does not make the world feel too comfortable.

    • It's like taking antidepressants.

      Peter Molyneux has probably never taken antidepressants in his life or he would not say this. Antidepressants don't make the "world just feels too comfortable". They make the world feel survivable.

      Exactly right. Clinical depression is a life-threatening illness. Antidepressants are as "comfortable" as heart medication.

      • Exactly right. Clinical depression is a life-threatening illness.

        Spot-on. And the main reason it is so life-threatening (and frequently fatal) is because you are your own worst enemy. Sometimes realizing that you are not being rational is enough (CBT), but sometimes drug-therapy is also needed.

        I've done a course of CBT (about a year, with monthly visits). The tips and tricks that you learn during CBT are very useful. It teaches you coping mechanisms, ways to self-diagnose that you are not thinking
  • I see that repeating an inaccurate simile that's in common usage is all it takes to ruin a lifetime of hard work. Thanks for perpetuating the Slash-hole myth, my loving, charming fellow /.ers.
    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      Who says anyone hates him? only said he is being a jerk for perpetuation a myth. A myth that hurts people and prevents people form getting help.

      I don't hate people I don't know.

      • I'm not sure that repeating a colloquial joke qualifies as being a jerk. I do agree that colloquialisms can and do perpetuate myths and stereotypes. Unless they're coined on the Internet, in which case we call them "memes" and think they are not only funny, but define a new paradigm of reality that is better than the lives being lived by an imaginary group of non-Internet using folks. I digress. Anyway, my point is that the headline is at fault, and we should criticize the poster for using the comment o
    • I see that repeating an inaccurate simile that's in common usage is all it takes to ruin a lifetime of hard work.

      I think his notoriety for over-hyping and under-delivering did more for damaging his credibility and ensuring that some here are none too fond of the guy. He does some cool stuff, I'll admit, and I've enjoyed his games, certainly, but to hear him hype up $latest_game, you'd think the heavens would open up with angelic choirs whenever it gets released.

      • Ah. Yes. Well, I'm not going to argue with that. It's not like he's a friend of mine or something. Self-promotion does get old...especially if you're a fan of the work.
    • by seebs ( 15766 )

      I don't hate him, I just think he's being sort of a jerk. Well, that, and I continue to admire his absolutely unparalleled ability to create bugs in games that leave me wondering how anyone could have gotten those results on purpose, let alone by accident. (Favorite: In Amiga Powermonger, you could only save if every floppy drive the machine had contained a write-enabled disk. This is so much more work than simply using the existing writing facilities, and even then it's fairly impressively hard to get it w

      • From the comments others have been making, it's apparent that he's always sort of a jerk. I wasn't aware of that. I still don't think his use of the "being on antidepressants" phrase makes him a jerk though. A whole bunch of other things do.
  • "Steve sometimes walks down the hallways bouncing a basketball. Or if he’s having a really good day he’s swinging a baseball bat. Do you think that sends a signal? Sometimes he brings it with him into the conference room. Is it symbolic? Maybe. I don’t know." Yeah, he probably thought he was this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B... [wikipedia.org] or maybe this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
  • by Radical Moderate ( 563286 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:56PM (#46588201)
    ...although I'd say the devs were on something stronger than antidepressants.

    All kidding aside, Win8 does seem to be a product of "Who cares what our customers want, we'll do it our way and they can just suck it", which pretty much defines comfortable complacency.
    • by rsborg ( 111459 )

      ...although I'd say the devs were on something stronger than antidepressants.

      All kidding aside, Win8 does seem to be a product of "Who cares what our customers want, we'll do it our way and they can just suck it", which pretty much defines comfortable complacency.

      Amusingly when Apple does it, most of their users either don't complain about it, or actually appreciate it.
      Hmm - maybe execution and taste matter?

      Meaning - Microsoft probably not only ignored it's users, it likely ignored it's own influential employees that were critical of it (especially those who weren't vocal because it would be a CLM [wiktionary.org]). That's poor taste.

    • by rahvin112 ( 446269 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @06:01PM (#46588655)

      I agree that Win8 is a product where Microsoft didn't give a rats ass about what their customers thought of it, but it also has the feel of a product where the developers own input was disregarded. The entire metro interface feels like a design that was created by committee (that never has used it) and forced on the developers by order of management.

      I honestly don't believe developers would have done half of the BS that's in Windows8 if left to their own devices and even if certain features were dictated there would have been settings to reset the behavior to previous standards. That those settings don't exist screams of management dictating behavior.

    • I think it's pretty clear they were certainly not on antidepressants while making Windows 8.

      They were on crack.

      • They were on crack.

        They were on panic. They can see the writing on the wall, finally, and it's not happy writing. The proof is that tablets are kicking their ass so they went all tablet-y. But because they're Microsoft, and one size SHALL FIT ALL, they did it everywhere including places which weren't tablets, which was a typically Microsoftian idiot move. Look at Windows CE of yesteryear, it is a bad copy of Windows. And now, Windows is a bad copy of a mobile Windows interface. Microsoft is only capable of doing one thing at


    • it seems that the piece is about organisational culture and how you preserve a high functioning development team in an a large organisation that becomes too focussed on bottom line and not enough on their customers and growth.

      This must be a common problem for IT companies. do you need skunkworks? at the same time there is a piece in the news at the moment about how Jobs slavedrove the iphone team into spectacular creativity. maybe it only works when the driving force is as creative as the people being dr
  • "Nurture and grow a civilisation of reactive, living followers who worship you as a god." - product promo for his current game. Talk about an ego trip...

    It's an always-on MMORPG, so managing your piece of the world may be a full time job. The graphics suck, apparently by intent. It makes Animal Crossing look realistic.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Now that I've made soooo much money that I don't have to worry about paying my bills, mortgage, kids college, etc. I'm going to venture out and do something FUN! Yayyy! I'll also run through the grass barefoot every weekend in my paid for in cash Malibu mansion.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    All they did was make me not want to kill myself while I was in the hospital.

    They're not feel-good pills.

  • While we're talking about Microsoft and gaming: I wonder why Microsoft doesn't sit down with Turbine and cut a deal to do Asheron's Call 3. World of Wacraft is like over a decade old now, and Asheron's Call 1 is superior in some respects so if you adopted some of the WOW ideas into AC and made a new MMORPG, it could make a fight to take over WOW population base. MMORPGS are big money, but you need deep pockets to make a good one.
  • I'm impressed and pleased that when I went to comment on the asinine analogy, several people already had. There are still lots of folks who avoid help they could really use, due to that myth.
    • Similarly, some people avoid seat belts because they heard a story about somebody getting their guts squashed by one. Never mind that tossed into the roof, the windshield, the steering wheel, the dashboard, or being ejected from a vehicle is almost always worse than being strapped to a seat. Yeah, SSRIs don't work for some people, but they work wonders for many. They're not supposed to make you "happy" - just get you out of bed or off the couch and able to get on with your life, and let you end the hopeless
      • by rk ( 6314 )

        You could delete the word "mental" from your last sentence and it would still be pretty accurate.

  • Antidepressants... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by raydobbs ( 99133 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:06PM (#46588259) Homepage Journal

    I don't know about working at Microsoft being like being on antidepressants (never worked for them, don't think I'd want to), but I know that whenever I hear him talk about his next greatest game - I want to TAKE antidepressants as I know none of the shit he talks about will actually make it into the game at 1/100th the grandeur he describes. Can we say 'Master of the over-sell and the under-deliver'?

  • by TeknoHog ( 164938 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:07PM (#46588263) Homepage Journal
    ..we wouldn't be depressed in the first place.
  • by VortexCortex ( 1117377 ) <VortexCortex AT ... trograde DOT com> on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:11PM (#46588299)

    Indies don't usually have yes men, or more correctly: We're close enough to the programmers that they can laugh in our faces and tell us what zany ideas AREN'T POSSIBLE given the game's canvas -- the technology itself. A good designer can make amazing stuff happen in limited mediums -- They can make the most of what actually is in the engine, rather than banking on that which requires a complete rewrite.

    Now the crazy thing is that when some insane idea drifts my way either from my own mind or while I'm being part of the idea reactor for the team, I may actually think on it over night and figure out how to pull it off. However, being an implementor means it's my job to say "NO!" not "Yes, but...". "Yes, but... It'll mean taking 8 times more time or money than we have." "Maybe but... we'll have to try out 20 different implementations to figure out if the feature is workable and meanwhile the other devs and content makers will be waiting to see if its possible, or they may wind up scrapping assets if not." -- Give 'em the TL;DR: "No!"

    You get maybe ONE of those "That might be doable" per game, maybe TWO if you're helping make the implementation happen, and have an idea of how to pull it off. Maybe a few more if time or money or a playable release isn't important to you. It's important to try new things, especially for innovation; However, you can innovate yourself right out the other side of, "Yes, but...", into, "Oh it might be possible, but the release schedule better include relocating the asset repo before the sun explodes", and only takes one really bad, "Yes", to make that happen. The bigger the behemoth under you the more wonderful are things that seem they might just be crazy enough to work. This is always folly due to the planning fallacy. [slashdot.org] No game is ever finished (we just have to stop adding features and polishing at some point), so if you didn't hear or say enough "NO" then you'll be bound to have game designers making wonderful statements which seemed wholly plausible at the outset or individually, but are not actually executable as a whole. You wind up with a game suffering from amputations instead of leveraging what was possible to its fullest. You start to sound just like Peter Molyneux.

    Sometimes it's not the designer's fault that their plans were just too crazy enough NOT to work out. And, sometimes they just push the hype-drive beyond warp 13. The public really can't tell the difference, but you can help prevent the former by learning when to say, "NO!" Saying, "NO", can leave the door open for a better "Yes!". Smaller guys say more "No", and less "Yes". Indies can't afford to entertain as many pie-in-the-sky prosaic Prozac delusions. Great ideas are a dime a dozen, it's really the execution that matters...

  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:16PM (#46588351) Journal

    So who forced Molyneaux to take Microsoft's money? I assume he cashed his paychecks.

    People who claim to be "too comfortable" to be creative really get on my nerves.

    And if risky, uncomfortable circumstances are what it takes to make Molyneaux creative, maybe he should try developing games while swimming covered in beef gravy in a pool of sharks. Maybe then he'll actually finish some games again. What a fathead.

    • by lgw ( 121541 )

      But isn't that just what he's doing? He found his current circumstances "too comfortable", so he's changing them. Indie game development is stressful enough even in a shark-free pool!

      • Indie game development is stressful enough even in a shark-free pool!

        I guess there's stress and then there's stress.

        I actually know some indie game developers. I've been to the Game Developers Conference (GDC) because I've written music and done sound for indie computer games. For the most part, it seems like the most stressful part of an indie game developers life is the fear that some of his piercings will develop infections.

        Seriously. You know who's got stress? Oil-field roustabouts. Professional mo

    • People who claim to be "too comfortable" to be creative really get on my nerves.

      Dude, you're a barista. [youtube.com]

    • So who forced Molyneaux to take Microsoft's money? I assume he cashed his paychecks.

      Nobody forced him. You can tell because he moved on.

      And if risky, uncomfortable circumstances are what it takes to make Molyneaux creative, maybe he should try developing games while swimming covered in beef gravy in a pool of sharks.

      That would explain his wild claims about the Fable series. Anything to get out of the pool.

  • by turgid ( 580780 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @05:30PM (#46588451) Journal

    "It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable."

    Spoken like a true ignoramus who's never experienced Depression.

    • "It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable."
      Spoken like a true ignoramus who's never experienced Depression.

      Or maybe for him, that's what taking antidepressants is like. Molyneux has always been a bit of an egotist, it's not a leap for him to assume everyone is like him. Or to assume that's what he assumes. Etc etc.

    • I've taken antidepressants, to see what they are like. I'm not in any way depressed. What he said is exactly how I feel. For example, playing games becomes impossible cause you don't care if your char lives or dies or what decisions you make, it's all fine. You feel like you are wrapped in cotton wool and floaty, like the world doesn't matter.
  • by bmo ( 77928 )

    It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable.'"

    Spoken like a person who has never used antidepressants or understands or how they work, or just buys into the nonsensical Scientologist bullshit.

    Antidepressants aren't magic happy pills and they aren't some sort of metaphorical rose coloured glasses.

    They take the edge off. That's it. They give you the chance to back away from the emotional precipice that you would otherwise jump from. Some are better than others (Paxil sucks for m

    • It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable.'"

      Spoken like a person who has never used antidepressants or understands or how they work, or just buys into the nonsensical Scientologist bullshit.

      Antidepressants aren't magic happy pills and they aren't some sort of metaphorical rose coloured glasses.

      They take the edge off. That's it. They give you the chance to back away from the emotional precipice that you would otherwise jump from. Some are better than others (Paxil sucks for many many people, for example) but properly used, they help people restore their lives from what was a bottomless pit.

      Depression is the third leading cause of death. Probably the main cause of preventable death since if you don't kill yourself yourself outright, you tend to not give a shit about "healthy living" and shave 20 years off your lifespan with heart disease and other crap.

      This article and summary is crap.

      --
      BMO

      Having a wife with this condition, I'd like to add that antidepressants take the edge off enough that therapy can work, and perhaps coping skills can be learned.

  • if you're in a big supertanker of safety, which Microsoft was, then that safety is like an anesthetic. It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable.

    I thought stack-ranking was supposed to make everyone feel uncomfortable to motivate them; but they did away with it recently due to complaints.

    Perhaps being threatened by real doom (startup failure risk) has a different feel than doom created by the superficial ill-informed bullshit criteria of a PHB (Dilbertian) ranker. The nature of

    • It might motivate you, but not to actually be better: Many things that make you better will be tracked to the team, not to you, and a good team still has to have a poor performer. So stack ranking motivates people to make sure some people are behind you, and to make sure that your manager actually likes you, instead of making your product better. Creating conflict for the good of the application is not great idea in a stack ranking organization, because it'll make the manager work harder, and thus not ende

  • Then why do I feel like eating a bullet when I have to use their software?
  • Que Sera, Sera (Score:4, Interesting)

    by David_Hart ( 1184661 ) on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @11:05PM (#46590209)

    This is not a commentary on Microsoft so much as it is a commentary on Peter Molyneux's personality and work habits.

    Some of us are self-starters and don't need constant crises or deadlines to get work accomplished or be creative. Others require that sense of the world will come to an end to be motivated. Hell for me would be to constantly be in crisis mode. Hell for him is to not be... To each their own...

  • Ever see the ads for anti depressants on TV? One of the side effects is you'll commit suicide.
  • I must confess I was hoping to learn something along the lines of "microsoft beats small children and eat their puppies" ...
    But what he really writes is that startups are more fun than large companies ...

    wich is "mostly" true... except when you just have trouble paying the bills because the funding dried up and the business is not quite there...

    And what he writes about M$ would be true in most large companies ... (they probably never trusted him enough to learn about the secret rooms where they really eat p

  • "Peter Molyneux is one of the most famous personalities in the history of gaming."

    If I read his name in any other context I'd have no clue who he was. And I've played the heck out of Dungeon Keeper, and Populous. Odd as well, a last name like his would seem to want to stick with you.

    I read someplace in that article When the idea of Microsoft and gaming comes up you think of an Xbox, actually I think of Ages of Empires, Xbox only because I was told that was the answer.

    Linked at the bottom of an article blas

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

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