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Classic Games (Games) Games

It's Time For the Descent Games Return 251

Posted by Soulskill from the i-expect-a-kickstarter-project-within-the-week dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Gamers of a certain age will probably remember Descent, a game that combined first-person shooters with flight sims in a way that has never really been replicated. GameSpot has an article calling for a new entry in the Descent series, and it reminded me of all the stomach-churning battles I had as a kid (when the game wasn't bringing my 33MHz 486 to its knees). 'Here's where modern gaming innovations make Descent an even more tempting reboot. From the two-dimensional mines of Spelunky to the isometric caves of Path of Exile, procedurally generated levels help deliver fresh experiences to players in a number of genres. The mines of Descent would be perfect candidates for such creation, and they wouldn't have to be limited to the metallic walls and lunar geology of past Descent games.

Imagine exploring organic tunnels carved by some unknown alien creature, or floating past dazzling crystalline stalactites in pristine ancient caves. Perhaps the influences of Red Faction and Minecraft could also come into play as you bored your own shortcuts through layers of destructible sediment. All of Descent's dizzying navigation challenges could be even more exciting with the immersive potential of a virtual reality headset like the Oculus Rift or the Sony Morpheus. Feeling the mine walls close in on you from all sides could get your heart racing, and turning your head to spot shortcuts, power-ups, or delicate environmental details could greatly heighten the sense of being an explorer in an uncharted land.'"
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It's Time For the Descent Games Return More

It's Time For the Descent Games Return

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  • Hell Yes! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NDeans ( 611232 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:40PM (#47067481)
    I loved playing Descent. We had our first LAN party back in the day with that game.

    • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Lab Rat Jason ( 2495638 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:45PM (#47067559)

      I'm all out of mod points... but I gotta prop this up! Hell YES! I loved this game, and I loved playing with dual joysticks! I'd buy it in a heartbeat... or half a heartbeat if it was on Steam.

      • Good old games has it

        I miss it too.

      • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jane Q. Public ( 1010737 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:03PM (#47067813)

        I'm all out of mod points... but I gotta prop this up! Hell YES! I loved this game, and I loved playing with dual joysticks! I'd buy it in a heartbeat... or half a heartbeat if it was on Steam.

        I got the world's best game controller, in my opinion -- the Logitech Cyberman II [photobucket.com] -- for playing this game.

        And think I still have it... somewhere. But I think it was made to plug into the old game controller ports that don't exist anymore. Or maybe it was the old serial ports... that don't exist anymore.

        It might look funky. But the one side is a 6-degrees-of-freedom controller, with 8 buttons on the other. Beat the heck out of a joystick, because you could do all your 3D navigating with a single control... up, down, left, right, roll, pitch, yaw. It was designed just for something like Descent. In fact it was used as a 3D controller on the Space Shuttle.

        I think the only other true 6DF controller out there was some sphere something. You had to use both hands to move it around so it only had a couple of buttons.

        • I would probably buy a gaming PC if they brought back Descent. I loved that game. Even just single player, it was awesome. I think that a complicated controller might have helped, but even on a simple Gravis joystick [szenenight.de] I found I could control it pretty well. Use the joystick in your right hand, left hand on numeric pad. Index finger is on + to go forward, thumb is on "enter" to go backward. Other 3 fingers are on 4,5,6. 8 strafes up, 2 strafes down, 4 strafes left and 6 strafes right. 7 and 9 to cycle weap

        • But I think it was made to plug into the old game controller ports that don't exist anymore. Or maybe it was the old serial ports... that don't exist anymore.

          But adapters [staples.com] do exist [amazon.com] to plug those things into a USB port.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • The old serial ports still exist technically, you always have at least one option for a motherboard of a given socket that still has it on the back but barring that, the vast majority has one as a header. Your motherboard most probably has one, if you use a desktop. That requires having a connector, prying one from an AT format PC is a solution.

          • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:4, Informative)

            by Adrian Harvey ( 6578 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @06:45PM (#47070917)

            Drifting off topic, but if we're talking the gaming ports, they weren't serial. They were much, much worse. The joystick potentiometers were connected across pairs of pins in the connector, but then, instead of just making them an input to a DAC or something simple they were basically hooked up as the variable resistance on a 555 microtimer so that the position could be read by triggering the timer and counting how long it took to drop back to it's base state. I know DACs were expensive at the time it was designed, but this choice led to some programs having to busy wait to measure, endless issues with different processor speeds needing to be compensated for, and the requirement to regularly "calibrate" the joystick in each game. I suspect the chances of that precision timing working well on a multi core, variable speed CPU with a real (preemptive) OS and possibly a VM in the mix too, is small.

            A USB device that works as a DAC and pretends to be a modern joystick interface would probably improve the controller no end.

            And yes, I bought a joystick just to play Descent too. But a simpler one than the GP.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by thoth ( 7907 )

          I think the only other true 6DF controller out there was some sphere something. You had to use both hands to move it around so it only had a couple of buttons.

          I played Descent using that other controller - the Space Orb 360 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360). It took a while to get use to and I was never proficient, but I got to the next level (among my friends that played) when I thought of the orb as a doorknob that directly controlled my ship, do drape my hand over the controller and pretend I was manipulating my ship: press down, move down; rotate forward, spin the ship along an axis, etc.

          I bought Descent and sequels off GOG purely for nostalgia. I'd

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by alta ( 1263 )

      Yes, this was an awesome game. So much fun. Really great with a joystick that had X/Y/Z axis + throttle as well. I miss that game.

    • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tiberus ( 258517 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:02PM (#47067787)
      It was especially fun to go head to head against new players who failed to look up. You know kinda like Khan vs. Kirk.
    • And then later, along came CALI, so we could play it on the internet.. It was so addictive, perhaps they shouldn't bring it back..:)
      Another game I would like to see re done is Battle Zone, yet another addictive game.

    • Loved this game and would definitely play the reboot were it to come to fruition! Imagine what it would be like today with the tech we have now; how would it change and should it?

    • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki&gmail,com> on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:52PM (#47068499) Homepage

      I loved playing Descent. We had our first LAN party back in the day with that game.

      Volition has long said that if they got the rights for it, they'd make new Freespace and Descent games. They still don't have the rights to it, so no new games. I believe the phrase that Volition used was "they'd kill to make them."

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:55PM (#47068531)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Others have already mentioned Retrovirus (which look quite much like Descent):
      http://store.steampowered.com/... [steampowered.com]
      (Damn that was expensive, guess I saw it in some cheapish bundle.)

      The game I'm thinking off though is Strike vector:
      http://store.steampowered.com/... [steampowered.com]
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
      This was in the $10(?) third tier in the Humble Daily Flying Bundle.

      Personally I've never enjoyed Descent even though it looked cool. Just annoying.
      This game however looked cool, fun and somewhat new.

      (I have no idea wha

    • Re:Hell Yes! (Score:4, Informative)

      by antdude ( 79039 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @02:45PM (#47069083) Homepage Journal

      For me, it was on 26400-28000 dial-up connections including Kali [kali.net] (it still exists). IIRC, the shareware/demo(nstration) had 20 minutes time limit so players would just disconnect and reconnect to rejoin the game at any time. Haha.

    • A cross between Descent and Tron, with procedurally-generated levels. Haven't had time to try it yet, but it looks worth checking out [neonxsz.com].

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by nmb3000 ( 741169 )

      Descent was the first game that really blew my mind when it came to graphics and gameplay together. The difficulty curve was perfect, and the continued addition of new game elements made it stay fresh (and Descent II was even better at this than the first game).

      It's also the reason I bought (or more acurrately, convinced my father to buy) a very nice joystick. There's a reason fighter pilots don't control their planes with WASD.

      And who can forget the 3D wireframe maps [dosgamers.com] which, towards the end of the game, g

      • > It's also the reason I bought (or more accurately, convinced my father to buy) a very nice joystick.

        Agreed. Thrustmaster FLCS F-16 FTW :-)

        Cheap keyboards would only accept 2 or 3 simultaneous keypresses. :-(
         

        • I also enjoyed using the Thrustmaster FCS to gain an advantage over other players on Descent. At the time, it was an $80 joystick with the coolie hat 4-way switch on the top. Unfortunately, after a lot of heavy use, the stem of the hat switch was worn down when it rubbed against the body of the flight stick. During one particularly frantic game, it broke.

          There are other controllers that might be worth while for playing descent, but the FCS just wasn't designed to take that kind of abuse.

  • Retrovirus (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wisnoskij ( 1206448 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:41PM (#47067493) Homepage

    It already has, it is called Retrovirus.

    • Came here to say this

      There have been a few other Descent-like games before and after.

    • It already has, it is called Retrovirus.

      Miner Wars 2081 is supposed to be similar too. I didn't get more than 5 minutes into the game before realizing my joystick kinda sucks and I haven't found a replacement.

      • Well broadly similar, but isn't it also a MMO game. Plus all the destructible environment stuff.

        Been meaning to give it a try, but last I heard it was still in beta. But it has been a while since I checked.

    • Then there is also Strike Vector, which is also descenty, but only multiplayer I believe.

  • Along with the 3x speed strafe bug? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:49PM (#47067607)

    Doom had a ~2x speed movement bug along North-South walls when moving forward and right and looking at a 45 degree off axis.

    Descent had it it 3 dimensions. (Look, down, right, move up, left and forward)

    Part of the charm of older games were the glitches that made the difficult to master but took gameplay to a whole different level.

    • Re:Along with the 3x speed strafe bug? (Score:5, Informative)

      by tomlouie ( 264519 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:56PM (#47067693)

      Was it really 2x faster? I thought that it was only 41% faster. Vector math: square root (1^2 + 1^2) = 1.41...

      With three axis, you'd get a 44% boost. cube root of (1^3 + 1^3 + 1^3) = 1.44....

    • The original Descent had some interesting stuff if you were into making your own maps. You could build rooms inside of other rooms but where you couldn't see one from the other. I built a room with a cube in the middle. When you opened a door on the side of the cube, you went into a room that was larger than the cube itself (much larger). I built a hallway that looped around on itself, but when you were going though the hallway you wouldn't see the intersection. There was lot of interesting levels you

      • There was lot of interesting levels you could make because of the flaws.

        I don't think I'd call those flaws, so much as artifacts. For those not familiar, Descent used a portal based engine, but unlike today's portal engines where a portal links a room to a room, Descent's rooms were made out of many 6-sided polyhedrons (aka cubes, even though they could be deformed beyond cubiness). Each face of the polyhedron could be textured (to form a wall) or be a portal to the face of another, arbitrary, polyhedron, anywhere in the level. I forget now if the level format supported self-re

        • Yeah, I definitely don't think it was possible to do self-referencing in the editor, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could do it by editing the internal level code. I think part of what made it so fun to make levels is that it was so simple. Just cubes connected to cubes. I remember trying to use the Descent 3 editor, and found it too confusion to get started. I'm sure you could do more powerful stuff, but it was quite difficult to get started. The orignal Descent editor (DEVIL) was quite simple an

    • That was not a bug in Decent but applied physics.
      Ofc you are faster if you strive over three dimensions and use three 'forward' thrusters simultaniously.
      Should be obvious!

    • Re:Along with the 3x speed strafe bug? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @02:01PM (#47068619) Journal

      That's not a bug - that's how physics actually works.

      Your walking speed is limited no matter what direction to go since you only have one pair of legs. But in a space ship, the thrusters add up using typical vector addition... in all three dimensions.

      It was literally a feature, and a good one! The most unrealistic thing about it was only that the top speed was limited, which makes no sense for a spacecraft in a vacuum.

      I suppose you have to draw the line somewhere, 'cause real free-floating 3D with proper conservation of momentum would be a real pain in the ass.
      =Smidge=

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by wbr1 ( 2538558 )

      Part of the charm of older games were the glitches that made the difficult to master but took gameplay to a whole different level.

      Like rocket jumping?

    • On the BBSes that I played 4 player Doom on, those wall running speed boosts didn't matter, they had the opposite effect since we ran the game with -turbo 255 (2.55 times faster than normal). Press the run key and strafe-run and you're going as fast as player can go. Any faster via and the fixed point vector math overflows and when you press the run key and forwards you travel backwards.

      If you thought the game required lighting fast reflexes before, you just have no idea. Look, one of my strategies was t

    • I would love doing the trench run with a Rift on. But like Descent, you really need a joystick to play it properly. Those used to be a standard accessory. Now they're not.

      • A joystick was never "a standard accessory" in the sense that it was bundled with a substantial number of pre-built PCs. Nowadays you can pick up an Xbox 360 controller at a pawn shop for $15. If it's wireless, you'll need a receiver, but if it's wired, it'll Just Work with any game that uses a joystick. Or if you want a more traditional flight sim style joystick, you can use a gameport joystick from a charity shop with a gameport-to-USB adapter.

        • I just use a wired XBox 360 controller. Yeah, I guess that would work fine. I just fondly remember my FlightStick Pro with those games.

          Joysticks were standard accessories in the mid 90s in the sense that everyone had one and game developers assumed you had one.

      • With Decent you really needed TWO joysticks to play properly. We bought splitter cables and used the offhand joystick to control thrust (forward and backward on the top buttons) and strafing in any variable direction. With this setup you had a terrific edge over anyone of equivalent skill who did not have it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GNious ( 953874 )

      Tell that to CCP Games's developers for EVE:Valkyrie ... of cause, in 2 years, they'll announce the incomplete Beta a failure, and switch to something new...

  • Decent was descent (Score:3)

    by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:55PM (#47067687)

    Except was always lost, having no sense of up and down has scarred me for life.

    So bring on a modern GPU powered rift version.. always assumed someone would go there and I would buy it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tepples ( 727027 )
      Acclaim tried to fix this in Forsaken, its own twist on the Descent-style first-person shooter, by slowly rolling such that gravity points down.

  • LOL ... no ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:56PM (#47067695) Homepage

    All of Descent's dizzying navigation challenges could be even more exciting with the immersive potential of a virtual reality headset

    Speaking for all of us old fogies who got left behind by modern gaming due to our less than stellar reflexes and spatial awareness ... absolutely no to this.

    I'd probably hurl within about the first two minutes, Descent used to make me dizzy as it was. In a VR headset? It would get messy real fast.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by alta ( 1263 )

      This is true... I'm only 37 but if I spend to omuch time in SOME 3D games now I get nauseated and that's without the VR Headset.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sarin ( 112173 )

      I used to play Descent in 3d back in '97 with liquid crystal shutter glasses (SimulEyes VR) it was the bee's knees in those days (and expensive).

      It rocked, especially over the IPX network against my housemates and neighbours. Good memories.

      I'm looking forward to using the next generation headsets for this to play against my new housemates (my kids).

    • I disagree.

      I'm 40 this year and I played the hell out of Descent and Terminal Velocity for the sheer pleasure of using the full 3D experience.

      I downloaded the Rebirth [dxx-rebirth.com] version of Descent after reading half his article, and I've played it for quite some time. My reflexes are OK, my brain isn't hurting and I'm WISHING that many of today's games could venture into the 3rd dimension.

      I play Star Trek Online [perfectworld.com] and I couldn't begin to tell you how much better it would be (for me, I dunno about these kids who ca

  • D2X-XL (Score:5, Informative)

    by jerpyro ( 926071 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @12:57PM (#47067717)

    For those of us who still have the binaries around, the D2X-XL project (http://www.descent2.de/d2x.html) has ported the game engine to OpenGL and has added a number of great things to the project. It supports more players, TCP/IP, and tons of additional features. As with any community project (or commercial project recently) there are bugs, but some of the builds have been quite good. I encourage fans to check out and contribute to the project :)

    I would absolutely play it more if there were a community of descent players ready to go online against (a matchmaking system, for example).

  • I played through Decent and Decent 2. Decent 2 had the helper that would help you navigate through the mazes. (Find power-up, find key, find goal, find boss). I like the idea of a end-boss that chips away at the environment around you as you try to fire and dodge. I also played both Decent:Freespace (1 and 2) games and thought they were the best PC space fighter games created.

  • ... because gaming just isn't fun until you've managed to get the guy in the next cubicle to have a vertigo attack.

    (the problem was, he got over it after a while, and would come back to really crush everyone in our office)

    But watching someone play would set most people off, so it wasn't safe to play during lunch (when people might walk by and see your screen); we'd have to wait 'til after hours.

  • Ahh Descent ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by LostMonk ( 1839248 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:23PM (#47068087)
    20 years and I can still recall that annoying screech followed a moment later by an instant hit from those vulcan-carring robots.

  • i love descent, and i love that it's now software libre. i hope the guy who maintains d2x has stopped being an idiot by including patched versions of standard libraries such as libsdl without providing an option to replace them and forcing the patched versions to overwrite pre-installed software, but yes - awesome.

    the thing about descent was that it was the first game with 6 degrees of freedom. i actually bought a special joystick that was capable of dealing with it (one designed for flight simulators) an

    • I played Descent and Descent 2 using nothing but a keyboard, and I was a force to be reckoned with. Had to find specific types of keyboards which would allow more than 3 keys to register simultaneously for home, but I could get by with limited ones.

      Probably one of my favorite memories was an old friend I used to play Descent with and I went to a LAN cafe. My friend bet the guy running the place our hourly fees for the night that I could beat him to 20 kills in Descent 2 using just a keyboard and he could us

  • I remember buying an S3 Virge DX with Decent as a pack-in. I do believe this was the only game that ever got 3d acceleration on the Virge. Yes, it was a blast to play. I would really really really like to see the original Quake remade with a modern 3d engine, but otherwise completely the same down to the physics. The ecosystem that sprung up around that game was marvelous.

    • I do believe this was the only game that ever got 3d acceleration on the Virge..

      A special S3D Win32 version of Destruction Derby should also be available with your Stealth 3D 2000 pack-in.

      Terminal Velocity is another that supported S3D.

  • Descent? I'd take decent... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chinton ( 151403 ) <chinton001-slashdot@nospAM.gmail.com> on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:32PM (#47068221) Journal
    Still wait for decent games to make a comeback.
  • At least one of the Descent games was one of the first games to do stereoscopic 3D well. The displays flickered back then with only 30 frames per eye, but it was still a great experience. I'd love to play a Descent game with modern graphics and 3D support.

    • I had one of those 3D headsets, and I used it with Descent. It was terrifying. One of the best game experiences I've ever had.

      I'd probably grab Descent and an Oculus if a proper reboot happened.

    • I bought one I those. The flickering gave me knife-in-the-temple headaches, but it was cool.

      One of my greatest gaming joys was introducing my then 8 year old to Descent.
      And blowing him up repeatedly.

      Awsome game.

  • What about Heretic? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by drakaan ( 688386 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @01:57PM (#47068563) Homepage Journal
    With all of the Descent love, I can't believe nobody has mentioned Heretic yet. I only played either of them a handful of times (I was more of an RTS guy than an FPS guy, so Starcraft/Red Alert/Warcraft II was more my thing), but my buddies played both. Ahh, the good old days, when Windows 2000 was fresh and new.
    • Heretic was nothing special compared to today's games. Yes, it was the first FPS I know of where you could actually look up or down; big deal back then, "meh" today. Descent was crazy, disorienting as heck. Not sure I'd play a new version, but it was pretty cool.

    • Hexen was the game that Doom ][ should have been.

  • The first 3d accel game I played, back in the late 90s. Totally awesome textures. Of course back then it was a custom binary... and I got better performance running in s/w mode due to the S3V being long in the tooth.

    Still, awesome, +1, would buy again.

  • Sadly, the SpaceOrb never really caught on (too hard for many to use so I heard, or at the other end of the spectrum purists preferred mouse and kbd). I have about 4 of them, they are old school RS232 9600 baud, far behind the curve for plugging into the HID USB world we live in now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by qubezz ( 520511 )

      I have a Logitech Cyberman II controller still (can be seen here [maximumpc.com]). It has a true six-axis knob and eight buttons - you never have to touch the keyboard. Twist the knob right to look right, twist down to look down; push forward to move forward, pull knob up to move up - revolutionary. I don't think most understand how awesome these controllers are, or how disappointing it is that game port support was completely removed by Windows 7 (and previously took a hack to add back into Vista) and that these controll

  • I loved descent.. (Score:3)

    by blahplusplus ( 757119 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @02:36PM (#47068983)

    ... but the real problem was that Descent 3 was not as good as the prior 2. Descent really shined in multiplayer over LAN/Kail/Kahn. Back when I was playing with friends Descent was eclipsed by quake and other first person shooters because they were easier to play and the single player portion of the game always had serious issues.

    I don't have confidence any reboot would understand why Descent 3 failed in terms of single and multiplayer. The developers of the original descent didn't even understand what made descent great then that doesn't bode well.

  • Not long ago I found Descent in a thrift store. With fond high school memories I HAD to buy it. The engine was open sourced, you are supposed to be able to compile it on a newer OS and just use the data files from the CD/floppies. I found a Gentoo ebuild for it. Unfortunately all I get is segfaults :-(

    I guess I could just try running the original executable in WINE. I was hoping the open source version would have better networking capabilities (Internet vs LAN)

  • Descent game engine, open sourced (Score:3)

    by mrflash818 ( 226638 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @02:52PM (#47069151) Homepage Journal

    Was a great game.

    It would be fantastic if the Descent game engine could be open source, if it isn't already.

  • I played so much Descent 1/2/3 back in the day. My first LAN parties were all descent. We took over the school computer lab in the evenings and played there too. For Descent3, I participated in the Descent3 $50,000 contest, won a bunch of smaller prizes but not the big one (flew to San Jose from Canada). I'd love another official entry in the series. The fan made ones are OK but don't quite feel right. I'll have to bring my old Sidewinder 3dpro or Precision pro out of mothballs.
  • I remember using phoenix style joysticks for descent with a million buttons. The new descent will be made for consoles, and will lack every good option. It will probably also lack flares.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by 6Yankee ( 597075 )

      Over a few months of play, I conditioned my regular opponent with flare, flare, Mega-Missile. Eventually it got so that just lobbing a flare at him would send him running away screaming. I'd watch him thrashing about in a panic for a little while, maybe taunt him with another flare, before putting him out of his misery.

      Yeah. Gotta have flares.

  • I was in with DOOM when it came out. My residence had a 6 PC computer lab that I helped administrate (Windows 3.1 and Novell Netware 3.12: *ouch*), and in early '95 I installed a 4-user game of DOOM for the first multi-player deathmatch any of us had played. I was reasonably skilled, but other guys (who played way single-player more than I) schooled me.

    Still, it was fun and I enjoyed the heck out of DOOM. Although it was "3-D", the entire map of the playing area was flat, and it wasn't too difficult to k

  • Available on PSX (Score:3)

    by Nexzus ( 673421 ) on Thursday May 22, 2014 @04:01PM (#47069729)

    A buddy and I had the game on our playstations, and it was one of the few the supported the Link cable on that system.

    Two CRTs placed near each other, two PSXs , two copies of the game and the link cable made for awesome afternoons.

    Played and controlled well enough, especially since the dual[analog|shock] hadn't been released yet.

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