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Why Is the Grand Theft Auto CEO Also Chairman of the ESRB? 128

donniebaseball23 writes In an editorial at GamesIndustry.biz, Brendan Sinclair asks an important question about the game ratings board in America. Should Strauss Zelnick, the CEO of Take-Two, which owns the Grand Theft Auto franchise and has been at the heart of the ESRB's biggest controversies of the last decade, really be serving as its chairman? "No matter how removed from the day-to-day running of the ESRB Zelnick might be, his current role invites accusations of impropriety," he writes. "It's the sort of thing any critic of the games industry can point to as a clear conflict of interest, and many reasonable outsiders would probably look at that as a valid complaint. At least when titans of industry in the U.S. become the head of the regulatory agencies that oversee their former companies, they actually have to leave those companies."
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Why Is the Grand Theft Auto CEO Also Chairman of the ESRB?

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  • Same reason as MPAA (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jax Omen ( 1248086 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:47PM (#49296871)

    Probably for the same reason the people in charge of the MPAA, who rate movies, all work for the big companies in the movie industry?

    "age-restricting" content ratings always have existed to selectively restrict competitors or undesired content. MPAA, ESRB, same thing.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Isn't mpaa led by former politicians? Would you really want another industry group to be a revolving door for former legislators?

    • by Anonymous Coward

      "They" put:

      -Bankers in charge of banking regulation and the Federal Reserve
      -Drug manufacturers in charge of the FDA
      -Lawyers in charge of governments

      It's a revovling door. How is this any different?

      • At least when titans of industry in the U.S. become the head of the regulatory agencies that oversee their former companies, they actually have to leave those companies.

    • by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @09:00PM (#49297361) Journal
      Indeed. Watch the movie "This film is not yet rated" [wikipedia.org] for a very clear explanation.
    • The reason is that these boards are not federal agencies. These are industry groups created in order to prevent or delay the government from doing their own oversight. Ie, like the comics book code, self imposed restrictions are created out of worry that the ongoing scandal will drive away customers and attract even more government scrutiny. Or the Hays movie code that had self censorship to avoid government censorship (and to be fair some movies ended up being incomprehensible after being hacked up by s

  • Wait (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:47PM (#49296873)

    Do people actually take the ESRB seriously?

    • Do people actually take the ESRB seriously?

      Thankfully, just seriously enough. Actually change the games they play? Hahaha, no. So far largely successfully avoid any actually-binding regulation of game content in favor of fairly toothless 'self regulating' ratings entity? Yes. (Yeah, such legislation would almost definitely be unconstitutional; but some sort of legalist slurry, similar to the one that made 'obscenity' mysterious-but-constitutionally-unprotected, would almost certainly have been emitted and might well have worked.)

      • If anything, there's a steady stream of games that deliberately try to push EVERY ESRB button so they can get a 'high score' and sell their(often crappy) game on the basis of being HARDCORE!!!

        That way the pissants can go ape over that crappy game and leave the ones that have violence and/or sex as a legitimate story/entertainment tool alone.

        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Violent sex as a legitimate entertainment tool, seriously?!? I would hardly call it legitimate and do honestly look upon it as a profoundly disturbing reflection of humanity. Why do humans, find humans killing other humans, to be so entertainingly rewarding? Something seriously wrong is going on with human society and while those games are most definitely not the cause, they are still a matter of concern in they way they reflect the current nature of human society. Root cause, likely the harm being caused

          • Violent sex as a legitimate entertainment tool, seriously?!?

            *spock eyebrow* - While violent sex is indeed an option, it was not an option I was going for. I said 'violence and/or sex'. IE Violence and Sex as separate topics, but the two topics that most get wannabe censors worked up.

            Yes, you have people who lament the violence in XYZ. You get other people who get even more upset at the merest mention that humans are sexual beings. I call all of them pissants.

            As for the rest of your rant, all I can really do is shrug. There is violence in humanity. If anything,

            • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

              You use the term "and/or" but you clearly do not know what it means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]. I simply choose one of the specific options of the three available options you provide, so violence or sex or violence and sex (violent sex which is what you have when you mix violence and sex). It seems you also have a problem with the word 'rant' http://www.thefreedictionary.c... [thefreedictionary.com]. A stated calm personal opinion is not a rant.

              It is not 'just humanity' but the state of our current human society. Humanit

              • You use the term "and/or" but you clearly do not know what it means

                Oh, I do, you apparently don't. A game can have both violence and sex, without having violent sex. The trick is that a game(or a movie, for that matter), can have different stages, modes, and scenes. To use a food example ala the wiki, a game is a meal. It may be a single pot dish, or it may be a 7 course feast. The soup can be completely different and separate from the salad.

                From your link: "For example, the sentence "He will eat cake, pie, and/or brownies" indicates that although the person may eat a

          • There are plenty of games with "M" ratings without any violent sex or depictions of sex. You don't have to push very hard to get that. There is a a more restricted rating of "A" for adults, but that generally hurts sales of games.

          • Violent sex as a legitimate entertainment tool, seriously?!? I would hardly call it legitimate and do honestly look upon it as a profoundly disturbing reflection of humanity. Why do humans, find humans killing other humans, to be so entertainingly rewarding?

            You'd have to ask God/evolution that one. Part of it is cultural, which is a shame, but a lot of "distasteful" media is designed to appeal to our baser natures. I don't think there's anything wrong with indulging in violent fantasy, whether or not sex is involved, as long as you're responsible enough to recognize what's happening and don't hurt people. To attempt to purify your mind will make you crazier than you are already biologically programmed to be and isn't necessary to control oneself. As our techno

          • Re:Wait (Score:5, Insightful)

            by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Friday March 20, 2015 @08:35AM (#49300111) Journal
            Firethorn said "violence and/or sex"(and, in practice, even in games that tempt fate by having sex as well as violence the two are usually largely separate, freaky Japanese imports aside).

            That correction aside, though, there is one point of argument that I think doesn't get enough attention in the 'violence and stuff in videogames' disputes:

            Since videogames are interactive, which makes player choice at least possible(if the developer doesn't force you onto rails), the existence of bad, even (literally) atrocious, things in the game can actually make it more morally salient, and more effectively challenge the player's "hehe, violence is lulz!" approach.

            Just by way of example: in Fallout games pre-Bethesda(so everything before Fallout 3), you could kill children. In Fallout 3 and later there are some children but they are invulnerable and can only be talked to. However, your character's options, and likely his survival, strongly depended on the attitudes and cooperation of NPCs in the gameworld. You were free to kill kids; but (surprise surprise) most of the decent-human-being NPCs strongly disapproved, to the point of overtly refusing to deal with you and/or trying to kill you.

            The option to kill children didn't really make it a 'sick child murder simulator!!!'. You could do it; but you paid a high, and fairly plausible and realistic, price: nobody wants to associate with, or assist, the sort of sick fuck who does that, and so you probably died in the wasteland. Fallout 3 and later just whitewashed that moral choice, and it wasn't even possible to commit that particular crime or pay its penalty.

            This doesn't mean that any game with grotesque transgressions is a veritable font of moral wisdom, it'd be pretty trivial(and isn't uncommon) to have games that gleefully glorify (sometimes even without much ironic detachment) various sorts of mayhem; but it really ought to be remembered that one of the powerful, and morally relevant, possibilities of an interactive medium is to have all manner of choices, good, bad, indifferent, downright depraved, be available; but have the gameworld respond appropriately.

            (Dishonored did a pretty good job with this one, I thought, even for its poor generic-guard-mooks: it was typically easier to kill them than to evade or stun them; but you knew that the poor bastards were just city guards, who thought you'd assassinated the empress, doing their jobs. How many could you justify killing 'for the mission'? 'Just because it was easier'? 'For fun'? Depending on that number, the NPCs you interacted with, and the city itself, would change its own tone. You could play 'clean', you could leave a trail of bodies for the plague rats; but the consequences would be felt.)
        • It's actually the opposite. Game titles tend to want to hit the T rating for games so they draw from the largest pool possible. Destiny is a good recent example of a game that toned down its content to hit a T rating.

          • MOST games go for the 'T' rating unless it's easy for them to score 'better', or are deliberately aiming for a younger audience. Other games are quite proud of their 'M', such as grand theft auto, Duke Nukem Forever, Saint's Row, etc...

            Then there's ones that try to go even further, like Postal.

            Hmm... Maybe I shouldn't have said a 'steady stream', more 'steady trickle',where they attempt to use pissant outrage as free advertising.

            • Fallout 3 and Skyrim get the "M" rating, and these are extremely tame compared to those games.

              • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

                by Anonymous Coward

                That is because you can see female breast. Those are sacred relics, and displaying them in vain is blasphemous.

                God is great in everything he created. I will now prove my faith by cutting off bit of my penis. Amen.

      • Yeah, such legislation would almost definitely be unconstitutional; but some sort of legalist slurry, similar to the one that made 'obscenity' mysterious-but-constitutionally-unprotected, would almost certainly have been emitted and might well have worked.

        As long as it didn't actually ban anything, why would a labelling law be unconstitutional?

        Also, it only covers 'indecency', not 'obscenity', which you used, but most people don't realize that the FCC's power to restrict content on OTA stations (basic cabl

    • AIUI people (and retailers) take them seriously enough that game developers typically choose an ESRB rating and then tailor the content of their game to hit it (this tailoring can happen in either direction). In particular they try very hard to avoid the AO rating as many retailers refuse to stock games that have it.
      Which ESRB rating they try to hit depends on the audiance they have in mind.

      There was a big blowup with GTA san andreas about a minigame that was disabled but not removed causing the ESRB to re-

  • Two Reasons (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kwiqsilver ( 585008 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:51PM (#49296893)

    1. The controversy is good for sales. The kids want the taboo stuff.

    2. It allows him to set the line for "too extreme" as one step past GTA, meaning that he sells the most taboo title available.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      GTA is slapstick. You want violence try Postal or Hatred. Or one of them zombie games where you can realistically amputate whatever limb you go for.

      GTA has never been the most violent game. Unreal and Quake 3 were more graphic back in the day if you want to bring up the old GTA games and try to say they started graphic violence in games.

    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      Wouldn't the most "extreme" title be AO? GTA is still M, isn't it?

      • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

        Wouldn't the most "extreme" title be AO? GTA is still M, isn't it?

        Yep. There's very few titles that get the designation though, EF, Hatred come to the top of my head. GTA SA? I think went AO after the hot coffee thing, when it was patched out it was reverted to M.

  • Okay but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:51PM (#49296897)

    GTA5 is rated M. As is GTA4 and GTA3.

    If he has some sort of unfair influence, he's obviously not using it...

    • Re:Okay but... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jax Omen ( 1248086 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:54PM (#49296917)

      On the other hand... what content had to be cut from competing software to "only" get an M rating, while GTA gets away with it?

      I strongly recommend watching "This Film is Not Yet Rated"... it applies just as well to the ESRB as it does to the MPAA.

      • Given how in Saint's Row 4 there is a gun which is a giant dildo which you can use to violate police anally and then shoot them into the sky I don't think they are being too negatively affected.

      • I strongly recommend watching "This Film is Not Yet Rated"... it applies just as well to the ESRB as it does to the MPAA.

        yeah, maybe not. that move is a complete waste of time.

        from a non-pessimistic viewpoint, it actually makes a sort of sense that the head of the publisher of the most controversial, well selling rating-pushing game would be the head of the rating agency. He has more experience with parents fussing than anyone

    • GTA5 is rated M. As is GTA4 and GTA3.

      If he has some sort of unfair influence, he's obviously not using it...

      Unless he can exert that influence over the past ratings too.

      Brendan Sinclair is a warlock!

    • M is like R. Absolutely fine. AO is like NC-17 - a no go commercially.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:54PM (#49296923)

    The ESRB was created by the game companies so that they wouldn't get government involvement and can set ratings themselves. Of course it's going to be populated by Game company execs.

    • by Sowelu ( 713889 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @08:23PM (#49297127)

      Wish I could vote you up. The purpose of these organizations are for the industry to SELF-police and self-categorize. It's not supposed to be hostile to the gaming industry, it's a way for them to collaboratively set categories for the benefit of the consumer (and themselves by avoiding media firestorms, but really, having labels is good). The alternative is each publishing house having their own proprietary scale...yeah, that won't be confusing at all. I'm betting Rockstar isn't the only super-violent-game maker to be represented.

      Remember way back when ratings were new, and Apogee rushed to cram extra viscera into Rise of the Triad so they could claim the most violent rating? Those were the days.

      • This has nothing to do with policing. Industries create standards all of the time to help the industry as a whole to appeal to their customers.

        For example there are standards for threaded fasteners. The reason is because it it makes the whole concept of interchangeable threaded fasteners more appealing to customers. If I had to stick to one vendor who made their own size for everything I might just use some other technology. Because they got together and came up with a system that allows for a few sizes tha

    • I think that the implicit concern is that Rockstar Games has always been edgy. That company was built upon depiction of things that many were afraid to develop. I don't oppose his position at the ESRB. I'm only pointing out that should the lead developer of a series of Mickey Mouse games get the same position, we'll never see an article like this addressing that person.

      In fact, it's entirely possible that the only reason this article exists is that gaming journalists have had trouble getting people to
  • by aitikin ( 909209 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @07:56PM (#49296941)
    As I recall, the MPAA rates movies [wikipedia.org] in America...why should the video game industry be considered at fault for having someone who is at the head of their industry be faulted when the movie industry isn't? Aren't people supposed to be encouraging the "self-regulation of the free market" or something like that?
    • Who controls the movie ratings?

      who watches the watchmen?
      who repairs the watches?
      who watches the watch-repair-men repairing the watches?
      who repairs the repairmen?
      who mans the men?
      who mens the man?
      who is the man anyhow?

      it's time we start asking the questions that matter

      • who watches the watchmen? who repairs the watches? who watches the watch-repair-men repairing the watches? who repairs the repairmen? who mans the men? who mens the man?

        It's just one big circle-watch.

      • by aitikin ( 909209 )

        who is the man anyhow?

        it's time we start asking the questions that matter

        Why does the ESRB matter so much to you? I haven't looked at ESRB ratings since, well, since my parents stopped caring in the 90s...

        • who is the man anyhow?

          it's time we start asking the questions that matter

          Why does the ESRB matter so much to you? I haven't looked at ESRB ratings since, well, since my parents stopped caring in the 90s...

          OK, but you still do need to move out

  • by Anonymous Coward

    One note is that the ESRB rating is a voluntary rating.
    At least insomuch as a publisher/game company will not be fined by the government, though market forces (ie, walmart) may require it, these days.

  • After seeing the blatant and pointless censorship [wikipedia.org] pushed by the movie industry's version of the ESRB, all I can say is that I hope he does as much damaage as possible.

  • by Shadow of Eternity ( 795165 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @08:15PM (#49297073)

    The film industry also handles ratings internally and despite the bullshit brought to light by "this film not yet rated" is still largely doing an acceptable job of it. It's nonsense to take potshots at the gaming industry over this.

    Or rather, its nonsense if you take it at face value. Really it's transparently obvious that this is just astroturfing. It's a sad attempt at appearing to care about "ethical" issues betrayed by their utter inability to drop the moralistic, censorious, and authoritarian Jack Thompson 2.0 rhetoric even for long enough to get one good lie out.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It is somewhat ironic that after successfully heading off conservative "think of the children!" handwaving last century, this century video games are being attacked by the left-wing radicals who for some reason see video games as destroying their view of social justice. Probably because video games are the purist form of meritocracy possible: it all comes down to your skill, judged by an unbiased computer.

      Can't have that in a left-wing utopia, so they gotta attack video games from any angle they can. It's

  • At least when titans of industry in the U.S. become the head of the regulatory agencies that oversee their former companies, they actually have to leave those companies.

    The ESRB isn't a regulatory agency; it has no actual official power whatsoever.

  • ESRB is a joke (Score:3, Insightful)

    by crbowman ( 7970 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @08:22PM (#49297113) Homepage

    The whole idea of an ESRB is a joke, why should it matter who heads it?

    • by Anonymous Coward

      The whole idea of an ESRB is a joke

      If the only thing you focus on is the "T", "M", and whatever the other ratings abbreviate to, then yes, you are correct.

      But if you look below that to the "for depictions of boobies and use of the word 'fuck'", it actually becomes informative. I don't care that it got an "M" rating, I care why it got an "M" rating. That is what will determine whether or not I let Little Bobby play the game.

  • The ESRB is not a regulatory agency. Regardless, video games represent speech and are thus not to be regulated in such a way.

  • by Mr. Freeman ( 933986 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @08:54PM (#49297317)
    Given the choice between a video game corporation executive determined to rubber-stamp violent games a religious zealot hell-bent on pushing their version of "morality", I'll take the former. At least it results in more content being released rather than less.

    Not to mention that the ESRB doesn't have any real authority. This isn't like the FCC where media CEOs have the power to dictate real law that actually affects people.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 19, 2015 @08:59PM (#49297353)

    This is an advertisement not news.

    There is no coincidence to this headline, weeks before the launch of GTA V for PC. It motivates the stupid to talk about GTA, and search for it raising its profile. I mean read the fuckin' title:

    "Why is the Grand Theft Auto ..." why didn't they say "Why is the Rockstar ..." or whatever the conglomerate is? Specifying the game in the title, to an audience as well targeted as we are is mostly obvious.

    Increased awareness == increased revenue.

    Rockstar loves controversy because of it...

    More importantly is this question: who gives a shit about the ESRB?

    The people who are paid to...

  • This sounds like their m.o. for choosing the "best" candidates to move their agenda forward. Nobody fought ICANN on any of their shitty ideas in the past 5 or more years, why would anyone fight ESRB?
  • by duck_rifted ( 3480715 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @09:48PM (#49297627)
    Values change over time. Things once considered socially acceptable become taboo. Try playing Green Day's "Having a Blast" song in an airport and see if the reaction is the same as it would have been in 2000. Things once considered socially unacceptable become commonplace. Some old people are shocked by the language they hear on television, bitch.

    Rockstar Games has always had a better understanding than the ESRB where social values pertaining to depictions in video games are concerned. In the past, perhaps a very conservative approach to rating games was called for. Perhaps in the future, there will be things that simply are not done. Consider the recent initiatives to develop ethics for fields related to artificial intelligence.

    One of the reasons that we should not object to this man's position on the ESRB is that he will be capable of balancing changes in values since his career in game development began with enough preservation of those older values that we don't see the market alter too much, too quickly. Somebody who only repeats the old mores would not represent us well.

    Because we are as much human as past generations, and because life goes on, we must collectively redefine our values now and then. We are self-determining, as individuals and as communities. We are not slaves to those who came before us.

    Perhaps there are others who would like to see some values change. In time, as their convictions and passion are tempered by the trials of experience and they find the balance between their vision and the ways our culture is willing to bend, they will have their chance. However, attacking this man or undermining his time only means that when that chance comes, those will not deserve the respect they were unwilling to give.
  • by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Thursday March 19, 2015 @10:23PM (#49297833)
    ...so how has he taken advantage, really? Do you think there's a possibility that he personally sabotaged a competitor? Kinda doubt it...
  • Why is there an ESRB?

    • Apparently the goal of the European Systemic Risk Board [europa.eu] is to safeguard financial stability in Europe. I have no idea how the CEO of a US video game company came to be the chair of that board, so I can sort of understand people asking questions. On the other hand, I don't really see the conflict of interest either, it just seems to be a weird choice.

      Oh, wait a minute... maybe they meant the eSRB [srb.gos.pk], the Pakistani Taxpayer Facilitation Portal?

  • by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Friday March 20, 2015 @03:35AM (#49299111)

    First, the whole thing is a system where the industry regulates itself. So a game developer or publisher is going to be running this thing.

    Second, why is GTA such a big problem here? Are GTA games getting a tame review on the box? Lets look that up... *Actually looks it up* They're rated "M" for mature. So what the fuck is the problem here?

    Third, no one cares about these ratings. My parents didn't when I was growing up and anyone that works at a gamestop will tell you that most parents that buy games for their kids don't either. They'll go into the store to buy murderspree 14 and the box will say M and the store clerk will say "this is not for kids" and the parent will say "shut up and take my money".

    Forth, this just looks like another whiny article bitching about GTA from people that either don't know anything about gaming or people that are writing FOR people that know nothing about gaming.

    This is a stupid article and the author should be embarrassed with themselves.

  • Whatever conflict of interest may or may not exist at the ESRB (or MPAA for that matter) pales in comparison to the real issue those two organizations continue to perpetuate in the US: showing a little skin, talking about sex, and swearing is a sure way to get you an M or R rating, but gunning people down or beheading them is relatively acceptable behavior.

    (FYI I'm not talking about a violent game's ability to influence the behavior of individuals IRL, which I believe is insignificant if it exists at all, I

  • Do Gran Theft Auto V has a rating below Mature? No? there is no controversy, call me when they give it a Teen rating.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Why the fuck are video games being regulated in the first place?

    What is wrong with you people?

  • isn't that how the corruption in America works?
  • by Piata ( 927858 ) on Friday March 20, 2015 @09:29AM (#49300447)
    Strauss Zelnick and Take-Two DO NOT OWN GTA. Take-Two is Rockstar's publisher. Rockstar owns GTA. But don't let basic research get in the way of a sensationalist click-bait article...
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Take-Two owns Rockstar.

      • Take Two publishes Rockstar games and owns the company. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Games) Not that hard to google something, is it?

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