Kid Racks Up $5,900 Bill Playing Jurassic World On Dad's iPad (pcmag.com) 540
theodp writes: For Mohamed Shugaa, the scariest Jurassic World creature is perhaps Apple CEO Tim Cook, not the Indominus Rex. That's because Shugaa discovered his 7-year-old son had managed to rack up a $5,900 bill playing the Jurassic World game on his iPad in six days. "Why would Apple think I would be spending thousands of pounds on buying dinosaurs and upgrading a game," Shugaa told The Metro. "Why didn't they email me to check I knew these payments were being made? I got nothing from them. How much longer would it have gone on for?" Shugaa discovered his son's 65 in-app purchases when a payment he tried to make to a business supplier was declined. His son had upgraded dinosaurs using the game currency 'Dino Bucks' without realizing it was charging his Dad in real money. The good news is that Apple has decided to refund the money, so the kid doesn't have to worry about Apple making him work 8,500 hours for $5,980 to settle the debt. Btw, before you developers get too excited about the possibility of using In-App Purchase to take kids to the cleaners at $6,000-a-pop, remember that Apple call dibs on the first $1,800!
Well deserved. (Score:3, Insightful)
You let your brat play unchecked with a credit card-enabled tablet, you deserve every bill you get.
Especially if you're too dumb to read the fine print and adjust your settings, so that these things can be avoided.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Insightful)
They require a credit card to install free apps. What gets me is they required password for doing anything on the app store even free apps, but no password to buy thousands in upgrades. It's a deliberate scam, or incredible incompetence. I succpect the latter.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:3)
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You can opt out of that. It's not forced on you, it even asks the first time if you want to enable it, so it isn't even on out of the box. Blame the parent.
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It is not opt-out, that is a lie, more accurately it is once only opt out. That opt out should be routinely repeated and have real spend caps placed upon it via legislation. For Phone purchases a sound legal limit on spends per day should be enforced, say a low $100 per day and a maximum of $500 per day (they should be enforced by law with real legal penalties for the abuse of spending caps), they are simply not secure enough from the manufacturers who would so readily abuse them. If they are going to beha
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They require a credit card to install free apps. What gets me is they required password for doing anything on the app store even free apps, but no password to buy thousands in upgrades. It's a deliberate scam, or incredible incompetence. I succpect the latter.
Yeah, it's hard to see how they "missed" this elephant in the room when setting up the app store and in-game purchases.
Really, if this isn't deliberate then it's the next best thing.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Insightful)
The elephant in the room is that we, as a society, are allowing these games to exist at all. Yes they are entertainment products but they should have limits on their abusive nature. I mean if you can fleece someone for $500 on a game that no one would pay $60 for - good for you you've scammed someone but $5000+ is criminal (or rather should be).
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't just "allow" them, as a society, we demand them.
We're a society that happily spends $8 on a latte we drink in under a minute but refuses to pay $1 for a game we'd spend hours on.
We're a society that balks at paying a monthly subscription fee to pay for game servers, yet will happily spend far more money on fake items. Think of how many times you've heard of a game "going free to play" and had their profits skyrocket because of it?
The elephant in the room is that, yes, Apple does absolutely think it's possible some guy will randomly spend $6000 on virtual dinosaurs. It happens all the time. And we, as a society, are quite willing to make that possible solely so we don't have to spend our latte-money on a game we'd spend far more time with. We demanded free to play games, and we got them.
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And that's why I'm not advocating abolishing these games, just setting reasonable limits on the gouging that can go on.
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And that's why I'm not advocating abolishing these games, just setting reasonable limits on the gouging that can go on.
And who is going to appointed to be in charge of setting these limits?
It's an unworkable idea, even if it appears sensible at first glance (it doesn't appear that way to me, but I'm sure some others would consider it a reasonable idea).
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By imposing a limit they keep the bulk of the casual revenue coming in while not exploiting any one individual to an extreme.
You do realise these industries depend on high-spenders that they call 'whales', right?
Who demanded? (Score:4, Insightful)
WHO demanded fee-to-play (they certainly aren't free) games? Nobody I know fucking did, and most I know hate it.
First they took local LAN play, so you could only play when online.
FTP is basically just a scam to hide the real cost of a game, be it free install or otherwise.
On tablets etc, games didn't *require* paying of course, unless your actually wanted to progress beyond a certain point.
Meanwhile on PC/console, we got unlockable "achievements", which was kinda cool until those became necessary to unlock items in the game.
Then off course, came the ability to "pay" for unlocks, so you had the ability to play 10,000h for a sniper scope or pay in order to compete with the fucking rich kids who bought them at $50
Back to tablet, oh now we're not charging you money, you get game "credits" (which of course your can purchase) to obfuscate the cost of things further.
Lastly, let us not forget DLC. What used to be legitimate add-ons a year or so after release became 0-day nickel-and-dime cash grabs to get a full game.
Tell me, when did we ask for this shit? Because it seems to me that as soon as the industry see dollar signs, every fucking game went there. EA was the biggest sell-out, but with them and other big names buying out any game studio that produces a decent product, your choices are pretty much limited to whose dick you want to take up your ass, and with how much lube (lube available in micropayments of $5/application).
Not so much (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Insightful)
The elephant in the room is that we, as a society, are allowing these games to exist at all.
I think people should be allowed to spend their time and money on whatever stupid, shallow things they want. They should be able to piss away their entire lives on twitter and facebook and fondle their phone 24/7 if they like.
It's not for me, but if the bliss-ninnies want to spend their lives waiting for the next photoshopped picture of Kim Kardashian's ass to hit the newsstands, who am I to say no?
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Insightful)
The elephant in the room is that we, as a society, are allowing these games to exist at all. Yes they are entertainment products but they should have limits on their abusive nature. I mean if you can fleece someone for $500 on a game that no one would pay $60 for - good for you you've scammed someone but $5000+ is criminal (or rather should be).
I don't quite see the problem. Either the purchaser is a legally competent adult, or he/she isn't. In this case the purchaser was a child, not a competent adult. So no legal contract was entered and the money should be refunded. I'd say the competent adult (the father) should be responsible for any actual damages caused by him not taking car - but that would be for example credit card fees, so a few dollars at most.
On the other hand, if you, assuming that you are a legally competent adult, make $5000 worth of in app purchases, then that's your own fault. It's the same as handing out $5,000 worth of dollars to strangers on the street. Maybe it would be a reason to have you declared incompetent.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yes, like gambling is "self-regulating"
No, this is not wagering. That is something very different.
Isn't it in many cases? A common mechanism is a randomized reward for an expenditure of credits paid for with cash in games like Kingdoms & Lords, Microsoft Jackpot, Battle Islands, just to name a few examples.
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LOL - no, I was thinking something a little more reasonable like the "gatekeepers" (like Steam) put a policy in place where no one gamer will be charged in-excess of a reasonably large but not excessive amount for a single F2P game. Any purchases after that amount are approved in game but not processed so the gamer can continue to play without being abused by the publisher.
There is no reasonable person who would pay $4,000+ for a set of armour in a game like My Lands (they sell many for that amount) - only
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If you read any of the other comments you'd know that's not the case.
What's not the case? I'm asking what your point is (is it either of the things I said?), are you just whining about society or are you proposing change?
The change I would propose is a limit on profit taking whereby users could spend as much or as little as they wanted but the providers like Steam or XBL would limit the amount that any one user could be charged overall for a single game. ie: charges up to $X per game will be charged beyond that the game is considered to be paid for in full. This would limit any hardship on any one individual, allow companies to still charge excessive rates to a degree, and keep the "nanny state" you fear out of it. It wou
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a dark pattern [darkpatterns.org] which is a user interface designed to trick people into doing things.
I'm surprised how many Slashdotters have replied "he ought to keep closer control of what his kid is doing" and "Apple isn't at fault, they just created the system". Apple is responsible for the user interface and just because the user "could have navigated the user interface" and not had his kid buy the in-app purchases doesn't mean that Apple isn't responsible. "You could have figured out the bad user interface" is never an excuse, especially when the bad user interface is on purpose.
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You can't prove that it's on purpose. The correct phrase was "is so blatant that it appears to be on purpose".
I don't feel I'm just being nitpicky here. To assume that Apple did this on purpose is to make an assumption about the kind of micromanagement that the company is exerting, but companies are not real entities. Someone at Apple probably did this on purpose, but I doubt that upper management was aware, much less the Board of Directors. This doesn't mean that they aren't responsible, as upper manag
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This is a dark pattern [darkpatterns.org] which is a user interface designed to trick people into doing things.
Yep, and there's that whole whole "engagement" concept that is now baked into games to keep you clicking. A little work, a little reward, but then it goes into times cycles, contingent rewards, goal-teasing, etc etc etc. Zinga hired teams of psychologists to make their games (in their own words) "as addicting as possible". And it's worked.
Farmville, Candy Crush, etc etc etc...practically all now use this timed-reward technique along with other motivational "pokes" to keep you glued to the game or at least c
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It doesn't matter if it's deliberate. You don't leave a loaded tablet lying around where the kids can get to it. Put it in the gun safe, separate from the credits cards.
Lol, maybe just install a hard-to-remove trigger lock, err, I mean "tablet lock" and keep the key in the safe.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Insightful)
Fortunately, current iPads have that built-in fingerprint trigger lock that gun manufactures can still only dream of.
As a firearms owner and carrier (30+ years of EDC) I would never, ever want a fingerprint reader or interlock on any of my firearms. When I pull the trigger, I want it to go bang, period. I don't want to see a "LOW BATTERY" warning or a find out a circuit is fried when I need it most.
Might as well put a fingerprint interlock on a fire extinguisher or a baseball bat- do you have any idea how often those things are misused?
(And for the record, I'm not some right-wing whacko, I'm one of the most liberal, left-leaning people you'll ever meet, no joke.)
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Not to mention that as anyone who's used an iPhone with the fingerprint reader knows, that thing works maybe 90% of the time. The rest of the time it refuses to work and then you have to enter your passcode.
Can you imagine a gunman breaking into your house, pulling your gun, and having the fingerprint reader refuse to recognize you? "Hey, please don't shoot me, I need to unlock my gun. Stupid thing. Fine, I'll enter my pass--" BANG! (thud)
Anyone who's used any fingerprint reader knows enough to know that th
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you imagine a gunman breaking into your house
No. Thank god i don't live in America.
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you need to re-enter your prints. my 6 reads my print almost the 1st try every time. only so often do i have to re-position my finger if i'm holding the phone weirdly.
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The iPhone's fingerprint scanner is pretty close to 100% reliable.
Except when:
- I am out in the rain;
- When it's cold outside (from December to February);
- When I'm cooking;
- When I'm working in the garden;
- When I've been rock climbing.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a firearms owner and carrier (30+ years of EDC) I would never, ever want a fingerprint reader or interlock on any of my firearms. When I pull the trigger, I want it to go bang, period.
Going a bit off topic, but if your gun was instead in the hands of your son or daughter pointing it at themselves or others I bet you'd like it to not go bang. Gun suicide and misuse using family owned guns is a much bigger problem than self defense unless you live in an unusually dangerous neighborhood, and before you say they can commit suicide another way studies in the UK after it switched from poisonous coal gas to safe natural gas shows the overall suicide rate falls if you take away an easy suicide method (no more "sticking your head in the oven")
Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Informative)
Purchases do require a password. The problem is, which the summary left out, the kid knew his dad's password. Because of this, all of the iOS protections that exist to stop excessive IAPs were bypassed with the password.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:4, Interesting)
They could trivially add a config UI element to set purchase limits.
Or, even more easily, they could just email you a receipt every time a purchase is made. That would have put a stop to this way before the kid racked up a $5,900 bill. Instead, Apple queues up purchases for days or weeks on end before running one big charge, presumably to save on credit card transaction fees. Only then do they finally send you an email informing you that you've been charged.
I purchased the ad-free version of Words with Friends on December 23rd so I could play more while riding on a road trip for the holiday. I didn't get a receipt until New Year's Eve. That's unacceptable and is contradictory to how any other ecommerce venture operates. If I order something from Amazon, they don't bill my card until the item ships, but they sure do send me a receipt immediately so I know what's happening on my account.
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Actually, last I checked, the bank that my credit card is registered to has the option of sending me an email or a text whenever something is charged.
I would argue that the smart place to put this is kind of notification is in your credit card, not in the App Store.
As an aside, Apple did the right thing and credited the account. This is an idiot parent who gave his kid his credit card and set him loose in a toy store and now is complaining because the kid spent too much money.
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They do not. You don't need a credit card. They even provide instructions on how to do this:
"If you're using the store for the first time with an existing Apple ID, you must provide a payment method. After you create the account, you can change your payment information to None."
Its OK to be wrong when you indicate that you might be, otherwise you are declaring something to be a fact that isnt actually as fact. In this case, it makes you a desperate fanboy fuck that happily swallowed what appeared to be a defense of what you covets, but it actually isnt a defense and that what you covet still ne
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Re: Well deserved. (Score:5, Informative)
I set up an Apple ID for my nephew on iTunes with an AppleTV and iPad he received for christmas. His parents asked me to set it up properly because they'd heard all the horror story rumors about how you needed a credit card.
You just sign up for the account and select NONE when you make the account. YOU DO NOT NEED TO PROVIDE A PAYMENT METHOD AT ALL FIRST TIME.
I did this just two days ago.
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I did the same thing over the holidays and I could not find the None option anywhere. As I have mentioned in another comment, their support told me to add a CC to create an account and remove it later. They said it happens for some people.
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It wasn't, but he's right.
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To be fair, mobile operating systems should have different default behavior.
The fine print and settings adjustments should be to turn on the ease of use "1-Click" saved-payment-info-without-confirmation options. Not to turn them off.
I don't actually know what Apple's default settings are like but Amazon tablets really want to make it easy for you to spend money.
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As far as I know, Apple's default settings are to require a password every time you make a purchase. All of my devices certainly do. There are several additional options, including enabling purchases without a password for a certain period of time, or not requiring a password at all, but you have to select those. Plus you can create an account with no credit card info at all for your children to play with.
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You let your brat play unchecked with a credit card-enabled tablet, you deserve every bill you get.
Especially if you're too dumb to read the fine print and adjust your settings, so that these things can be avoided.
Yeah, there's enough blame to put a bit on everyone's plate here.
It's worth mentioning that you can enter your password once on an ipad and then it won't ask again, which frankly seems a bit careless and maybe even "trappy". If you're spending real money, the least they could do is require you to enter a password each time. It's not like that would be a difficult thing to add. In fact, they make it SO easy for this kind of thing to happen it has more than a whiff of deliberate intention to it.
It's similar t
Re: Well deserved. (Score:2)
iOS asks for a password whenever things are purchased, regardless of method. Buying free apps can skip a password.
However, the kid had the password needed for purchases and was able to enter it when asked.
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iOS asks for a password whenever things are purchased, regardless of method. Buying free apps can skip a password.
However, the kid had the password needed for purchases and was able to enter it when asked.
Nope, not on my ipad it doesn't. My wife's ipad also doesn't ask for a password.
Yes, I know it can be set to do so, but apparently it's not the default. I just bought her an ipad mini 4 days ago and after setting it up it asked for a password once, and it hasn't asked for one again.
Re: Well deserved. (Score:3)
The default is to ask for passwords and the only way to not ask is if the item is free or you buy two things within 15 minutes. You will also always get asked first time you try to get something after reboot.
Why is this even allowed? (Score:3)
Knowing Apple, why not require that in app purchases have to actually provide you something of value beyond arbitrarily increasing counters in games?
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Knowing Apple, why not require that in app purchases have to actually provide you something of value beyond arbitrarily increasing counters in games?
In-App Purchases require you to enter your Apple ID password. A better question is why has this father provided his password to his son?
the password is needed to install free stuff / may (Score:2)
the password is needed to install free stuff / maybe (some are forced) app updates as well.
Re:the password is needed to install free stuff / (Score:5, Insightful)
My question is why would hand a child a device to 'play' with that is tied to a system authorized to make payments? I realize all kinds of people do that every day but its still stupid. You would not hand your kid a wad of cash to used building a house of cards, why would you hand them a computer with credit information embedded?
Both IOS and Android can be set so you at least have to enter your Apple / Google password to make a purchase. If your device isn't set to lock itself with a short timeout or you ever hand it to anyone you can't trust entirely (like your spouse) then you absolutely should have the password for ordering functions on! It is true that the result is this also requires the password for free stuff, but there again if you can't be arsed to manage the entertainment software on your phone for your kid, you probably should get them their own device like maybe a PSP or their own phone with no credit card info associated.
Frankly this is an expensive lesson but this day should pay up and learn it well.
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Frankly this is an expensive lesson but this day should pay up and learn it well.
You don't need to pay to have the lesson well learnt. A serious near miss is enough to change a behaviour, and getting a fat bill in the mail can very quickly make people realise they were financially left open.
But the parent does have a point. While it's their own fault having their credentials handed over even a bank or a credit card company often has the ability to prevent out of pattern transactions, and quite frankly suddenly blowing $5900 on small in game purchases in a single game should trigger some
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Re:the password is needed to install free stuff / (Score:4, Insightful)
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They probably should, just for PR reasons. Then the next time this happens, they can put out a statement saying essentially "Don't look at us. This moron told his kid his password AND told his kid his credit card number."
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Re: Apple: Common App Rejections - Misleading User (Score:4, Informative)
The source article said the kid had the father's password and used it to make purchases.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
updates may need the account / password (Score:2)
updates may need the account / password at least they do on the mac os app store and that is not the system password and it's need to update the build in apps.
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Really, they don't.
Works for me with my kids. Updates are applied perfectly fine without needing a password.
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limited user is one thing but there should be a way to have people install / updates apps but not have the password / pin needed to BUY something EVEN more so with ONE TOUCH BUY.
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I don't know about the UK, but in the US, another option he has is to reverse the charge with the credit card company.
Well... I'm not sure it's that simple or automatic. He can dispute the charges, but unless he can demonstrate fraud/theft the CC company may deny the dispute. Sure, it was his child that made the purchases -- or, so he says :-) -- but he allowed the child to use his tablet and arguably his CC. Alternatively, he can return items for refunds, but I don't know if that's supported for in-game purchases.
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Sounds like a pain, and then it'd always be a risk of forgetting to log out one time.... I'd just use a different device the kids can't touch to make the actual purchase of content to the shared account, and then the kids can Download it to their device over the account their device is linked to.
I guess if I used iTunes Drive/AirDrop for remote password vault and cloud-based file storage, then I might use a separate account for the kids altogether ---- keeping all your devices logged into iTunes has the
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While you maybe right about the Dad being a moron. Let's not pretend that apps like this are not created with the intent to defraud by deception or addiction and their creators are not in fact part of the worst of humanity.
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Yeah, you are an idiot.
So people who are "uninformed" or "ignorant" deserve "to have to cough up the money."?? Did he commit a crime so he deserves anything?? How retarded and sociopath are you??
only if the arcade needed a CC to play a free game (Score:2)
only if the arcade needed a CC to play a free game that also made it very easy to buy stuff that costs $$ that is not needed to play the free parts.
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I totally agree. Would you give your kid your credit card, pat him on the head and then send him to the arcade? That's what this clueless putz did.
I think this case is more like "Hey, I know your dad, go ahead and play and I'll put it on his credit card for you."
Except it's really more like "Billy, see that kid over there? Let him play anything he wants for free, even the expensive stuff, we can charge it to his dad."
A 7-year-old kid isn't going to have a strong idea of when things are too good to be true in the first place, and the app store is a mixture of completely free games which are fun and free-to-play games which are designed by experts to t
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The default should be opt-out with a prompt, not opt-in with a non-obvious setting somewhere to disable things.
It is, for the most part. The default setting on iOS is to require the user's Apple ID/password before making any purchase. You can set it to not require a password for 15 minutes, after having the password entered, or you can set it to not require a password at all. Both of the latter items require the user (the person with the credit card account and password) to actively change settings from the default. Or, god forbid, give their Apple ID/password to their little kid.
Sorry the dad got butthurt that Appl
Re:Kids Ipad (Score:5, Interesting)
I totally agree. Would you give your kid your credit card, pat him on the head and then send him to the arcade? That's what this clueless putz did.
I used to administer a billing system for mobile phones back from the late 1990s into the early 2000s and even back then we used to get calls from irate parents with this exact problem. Back then it was mostly kids and teenagers racking up $1000 plus bills with SMS lottery games and occasionally even back then through excessive internet use while on vacation etc... Dealing with some of the complaints we got thought me three things. Firstly, you would be amazed at the size of the bills kids and can rack up on mobile devices if you put them on a subscription based service (I remember one in the region of $11000). We solved this problem by programming the billing system to cap spending at a low default value forcing people to turn up and explicitly have the spending roof lifted. Secondly, having seen a hard nosed manager insist on payment I can tell you that you are better off waiving these bills or refunding because the parent's second call is always going to be the local tabloid or TV station. For some reason some hard nosed managers seem to have to learn that lesson the hard way. Thirdly, nothing teaches a child or teenager fiscal responsibility quicker than giving them a budget and letting them figure out for them selves that they can't have everything and must prioritise and if they want more money they'll have to get a job mowing lawns or down at the supermarket stuffing plastic bags and collecting shopping carts. So in light of my experience I would suggest:
a) Never give my kid your own personal iPad/Android Tablet.
b) Buy a used iPad/Android Tablet for the kid to use they are not *THAT* expensive.
c) Give the kid an allowance and make him/her buy gift cards to finance their gaming and give him/her a prepaid subscription they have to fill from their allowance for their internet and telephone needs.
Bad Parenting (Score:4, Insightful)
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Quick guess...you are not a parent, and have never had to look over a seven year old in any substantial way.
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Re:Bad Parenting (Score:4, Informative)
Talk about naive. A seven year old absolutely needs to be supervised when using a mobile or any internet connected device. The most maddening part of this is that he seems to be expecting Apple to babysit his kid.
Absolutely not. Only if the parents need to be supervised when using a mobile device as well. Apple allows you the following settings: 1. Password for every purchase. 2. Password for every purchase, but no further password for 15 minutes. 3. No password for free purchases. 4. No in-app purchases whatsoever. 5. Have no credit or debit card registered but use giftcards which cannot be overdrawn. 6. Have a family account where junior can buy what they like on their device, but the purchase only goes through if dad says "yes" on dad's device.
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Parental responsibility (Score:3, Interesting)
.
Instead, the Dad should take responsibility for letting a child use a device without knowing how and for what purpose that child is using the device.
This is nothing but a lack of parental responsibility.
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But neither should Apple be required to "treat every user as a stupid child" by default, just because they technically can't know if the user is actually the adult device owner or the child of the device owner that got told the password.
But basically it's the way the whole "intellectually property" system is set up: Smart (ruthless) people extracting money from the dumb (naive) people.
Welcome to Capitalism 2.0, which the dad supported in the first place by buying an Apple product.
And this is Apple's fault? (Score:5, Insightful)
The smart child had memorized his father's Apple ID password
A password was required to make an in-game purchase, and even if the father entered it himself, that only works for 15 minutes. How is it Apple's fault that the kid memorized the guy's password?
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If you took my credit card and ran off with it and started making 100s of micro purchases the credit card company would likely block the card. While I agree that the parent left their financial details insecure, how does such a large sum spent on a single game not trigger some kind of additional protection? Oh that's right profit.
Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
This is maybe the shittiest article I've seen posted to Slashdot in a long time, and that's saying something.
First, why does the blame fall to Tim Cook of all people instead of the developers of the game?
Second, Apple has already set up a Family Sharing system to prevent just this sort of thing. Never mind the fact that your have to give your kid your password to the account tied to a credit card for this to happen in the first place.
http://www.apple.com/icloud/fa... [apple.com]
To say nothing of the fact that in the article itself they said Apple refunded him the money. But yeah, they're assholes because he doesn't know not to give your kid access to your credit card.
Finally throw in a dash of globalization scare tactics and remind developers that they *only* get 70% of the IAP revenue, which they know about already, and you've got the Slashdot Shithead Trifecta.
Wouldn't these be "unauthorized" card charges? (Score:3, Interesting)
Dad: "Hey VISA, I didn't authorize this. Charge back." There. Now it's someone else's problem.
Honest question: doesn't it work like this? If the app or the OS (whatever's in charge) is both storing the credentials and also not taking common-sense measures to authenticate people who try to use those credentials, I'd think chargebacks would be an extremely common occurrence. Isn't this happening? If not, why not?
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VISA: "ok, so you are saying fraud has been committed? Passing this over to the police so they can investigate."
Charge backs do not have zero repercussions - if he claimed fraudulent activity, his son could have a visit from the police.
Of course your post ignores the fact that Apple requires a password before in-app purchase, and after the last debacle with kids running up purchases, changed the default behaviour so the 15 minute grace period after installing an app (and thus having entered the account pass
Re:Wouldn't these be "unauthorized" card charges? (Score:4, Informative)
Charge backs do not have zero repercussions - if he claimed fraudulent activity, his son could have a visit from the police.
Correct. Last time I performed a chargeback (admittedly not in the USA) I had to sign a statutory declaration that I had zero control of the purchase. Zero control has a lot of meaning and typically requires some kind of criminal act to be valid (stealing the card, stealing credentials etc). In my case someone managed to make 2 purchases a day after I left my wallet in my hotel room. The I had a follow up interview with the police who were investigating the hotel service staff (apparently my case wasn't isolated) even though I never called them, though I did give all the details to the bank.
I also know of someone, who's never been very bright, who gave their credit card to a "friend" to quickly go and buy something. That other person then spent big without her knowing. After doing the charge back she had an interview with the fraud department from the bank (she charged back the expensive item which was bought, but not the other item a few seconds earlier which she needed so they questioned whether or not she was in control of the credentials). Once they found out that she voluntarily gave someone the card that was the end. She was liable for the full cost and a $200 administration fee, not to mention that a fraudulent chargeback is now recorded with her bank.
I'm going to guess that giving someone the password to your iPhone to use with Apple Pay, or in app purchases or whatever falls under the same category. You can't charge back stupidity.
Sensationlist click bait again (Score:5, Informative)
First there's a way to adjust the password settings on iPads: Settings > iTunes and App Store > Password Settings. Set it to Always Require for paid apps and in app purchases and Do not require for free downloads. But that's all moot in this case because the kid did know the password and the account is linked to a credit card. It's like he gave his son key to the gun cabinet and later blame the gun manufacturer when the kid hurts himself. Bad bad parenting. The article also mentioned that he should received several email receipts for these purchases. That's Apple's way of reaching out to him and say "something is suspicious". What does he really want? A police officer knocking on his door telling him that there have been big charges on his CC?
In the end though, Apple did reimburse him all the money what else is left to grunge about? Had he given his kid an Android, the situation would have been the same: kids swipe the parent's CC clean. I have no doubt Google would promptly reimburse him, just like Apple did. However, this article was written only because it involved Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Settings > iTunes and App Store > Password Settings"
This sounds like the beginning of THHGTTG, where the guy's house is bulldozed because he didn't know that he should have checked in the city hall to find out that this was planned.
The default should be to protect the user against them shooting in their feet and to make them go out of their way to disable the protection. Don't expect them to oversee and remember all potential consequences of typing in their cc number.
In-app purchases are evil (Score:5, Insightful)
I feel IMHO should be banned on any game targeting an audience below 12 years old. At the very least in-app purchases above a certain amount or accumulated amount should require external authentication, to prevent this exact scenario.
As for the 'in-app purchase are evil' subject, it is because you'll frequently get a free app and then find it goes on to nickel-and-dime the whole experience. What is the real price of a free app with in-app purchasing? Here we saw it was potentially well above $5000. At that price $60 console games look cheap.
The real WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
The real WTF is that you can possibly run up a bill that large in just 6 days with a free to pay game.
Re:The real WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
The real WTF is that you can possibly run up a bill that large in just 6 days with a free to pay game.
$5,900 bill / 65 in-app purchases
Sounds like an average of around $90 per purchase. That is the real WTF!
Re: (Score:3)
Blame the parent but in-app purchases are bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
Know what your kid is doing on the computer/tablet/etc. It's not a trained babysitter.
Yet as a parent, I get it. We're fairly conservative, we limit screen time but it's a HUGE magnet for kids and it's easy for non-technical parents to not realize their kids can spend real money or how to block it, and kids aren't stupid, they can guess passwords. Our son figured out my wife's password (observing her typing) and ran up $90 on iTunes before we caught it. Kids are impulsive.
That being said, we paid it and made him pay us back through extra chores accounted on a big sign on the fridge and a loss of access to the iPad. We didn't ask for a refund because we owned the problem and of course getting the refund would be a time consuming headache in and of itself.
That being said, in-app purchases are bullshit. They degrade the quality of all apps by masking their true cost and lack of basic quality. Apple's controls are really weak, especially for parents, and there should be a way to set spending limits that protect the parent and the kids.
The $6k refunded by Apple is bullshit compared to the thousands of parents who have paid the $90 like us, and I'm sure Apple just knows a lot of people eat $$$ in unwanted in-app purchases and it's part of the model. They don't *want* more controls.
I'd like to see Apple eliminate in-app purchases completely. Developers should price their apps up front, release multiple versions if they want multiple price points. Shitty apps and especially games that do nothing without a ton of in-app purchases should die. I don't even bother with games at all anymore because they're all rigged to be mostly unplayable without upgrades, and I tend to avoid apps of any kind that flog upgrades via in-app purchases. It's a crappy racket.
Similar happened with my son and grandson (Score:3)
My eldest son recently got a paid xbox live account, and his son racked up about a thousand bucks of charges in one day before my son even had a chance to set up the parental locks on the device.
He got a refund after telling them what had happened... it was still was a bit an eye-opener for him though. Really, I think that the biggest reason that things like this happen is because while it is obvious to the parent that it costs real money, it might not as obvious to the child, and it also may not be obvious that permission was even needed unless this is explicitly clarified ahead of time.
Responsibility it yours. (Score:2)
"Why didn't they email me to check I knew these payments were being made? I got nothing from them."
Why exactly is it any company's problem that they check up on whether you are an idiot or not ? You agreed to bought the device, agreed to terms and conditions , and gave them your credit card. Now they much check if you weren't being a drooling imbecile when you did all that ?
In both the Apple and Android worlds (Score:5, Informative)
You can buy "prepaid" cards to load finds for purchases made via their respective "stores".
I cannot imagine any situation where you would register a real world credit card to allow direct charges with either of them.
It's sad that people blindly accept that giving a service provider direct access to their credit card or bank account number is a suitable way to pay anything, and its what leads to situations just like this one.
My son has an iPhone. It has a preloaded balance. It CANNOT spend anymore than that. If he runs low he can ask me for a another iTunes card.
I have an Android phone. Same setup - preloaded balance that it CANNOT exceed. It does not have the ability to use anymore than the balance that I have loaded, which I (and ONLY *I*) can replenish as needed
For any service that will not bill any way OTHER than to a credit card, or for any online purchase, I use this:
https://www.bankofamerica.com/... [bankofamerica.com]
Re: (Score:2)
iOS needs a setting that is do not ask for password to install free apps only ask to BUY SOMETHING THAT COSTS REAL $.
Re: (Score:2)
But then people would actually notice how much money they spend!
Re:stop forceing people to enter a password for fr (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Then you could do a DoS attack on every iPad/iPhone you get into your hands.
Just download as much apps as you can: memory full, no mails can be received anymore, data plan wrecked ... etc.
No idea why so many people always think: the default way how Apple is running stuff is wrong (same idiots who always complain that programming Java is to complicated because Sun 'invented' to many Exceptions)
Missed the part that the same password was needed (Score:2)
Missed the part that the same password was needed to get the free apps and there was a time where you needed a CC just to get a apple ID.
Re: (Score:2)
That story is from 2014.
This is about an app based on a movie that came out in 2015; I somehow doubt the Jurassic World game was involved in the story you quoted. In other words, Apple failed to live up to their agreement with the FTC, and that will be an interesting case to watch. I hope.
Re: (Score:2)
Every other news outlet covered it days ago. Slashdot is lucky to post stories within a week of them breaking.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, but that's not an excuse for the horribly broken design. And many people may not find out so quickly, especially if the purchases are more moderate. So I think it's clearly a scam, probably fraud, and just not provably malicious.
That many companies do this merely says that there is a lot of malicious action allowed to happen unpunished.