Microsoft Could Turn Every PC Into an Xbox (theverge.com) 255
For the past few years, Microsoft has been trying to mold Xbox One system's user interface and functionalities to resemble that of Windows 8 and Windows 10's Modern UI. But the company has also hinted that we will be seeing a closer integration in the coming months. It is expected to unveil some of that at E3 tradeshow next week. Long-time Microsoft watcher Tom Warren reports for The Verge: Microsoft is currently working on a secret project internally, codenamed Helix. Kotaku originally reported on the Project Helix name, and the work is designed to more closely combine Xbox and Windows 10. Some of that work has started, but more of it is due later this year and next year with future upgrades to Windows 10. Microsoft wants to enable features like streaming PC games to the Xbox One, but sources familiar with the company's plans also tell us there are greater ambitions to make Xbox One games playable on a PC without needing a console for streaming. Part of this could involve bringing the full Xbox One UI and system directly into desktop versions of Windows 10. The latest Xbox One dashboards are built on top of Windows 10, so most of the work involved would be customizing the interface towards keyboard and mouse. Bringing the Xbox One UI over to Windows 10 machines would effectively turn every PC into an Xbox One, especially if they're also capable of running the latest console games.
No. (Score:2)
Just No.
Don't make PCs and PC games worse, make the consoles better.
Console ports already generally suck. Leave them in the console controller ghetto.
Re:No. (Score:4, Interesting)
"Turn your PC into an Xbox" is nothing more than coded language for "sabotage your perfectly good general-purpose computer by infecting it with even more DRM than it already has." The thinking at Microsoft clearly must be "well, the consumers are resisting our attempts to force them to use the Windows Store, so maybe we can force them to the Xbox Live store instead?"
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Shit, accidentally clicked "Redundant" instead of "Insightful". Replying to undo my mod.
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The only way to achieve parity with PC is to remove all the crap the console makers do to lock you into their games or monetize you. Paid subscriptions in order to get updates to your games, exclusive access to one platform only, makes use of a nonsensical interface no one wants (kinect), connectivity to the back office so they can serve you ads and track you, etc. And that's before you make the games less dumb.
Er...this is a secret? (Score:2)
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You forgot "yet." Like I said, the fact that Microsoft wants to compete with Steam with the full Xbox catalog on every Windows 10 desktop is no secret. Otherwise they would have kept the "Microsoft Games" thing going, licensed Steam bloatware apps or gone in a different direction. Instead, everyone already sees the Xbox brand and expects that someday soon Xbox games will be there too.
At least (Score:3)
you will only have to buy 1 copy of a game. That is pretty appealing.
I bought Diablo 4 on my girlfriend's console at one point but she got sick of me playing it all the time so I had to buy the PC version to play on my computer (which sucks BTW, the console version is much easier to use).
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You're probably making the mistake of trying to use a gamepad for a computer game which was made to use with a keyboard and mouse.
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I bought Diablo 4
There is no Diablo 4, you mean Diablo 3, most likely the Ultimate Evil Edition.
App store lock in jail time / ban's for modding = (Score:2)
App store lock in jail time / ban's for modding = no way.
And there idea of modding that can get banned is putting your own sata hdd in. At lest the x box 360 used to that way.
Sounds good to me! (Score:2)
I only want one game for XBox One. This will allow me to have my cake and eat it too. Now if Sony can make all Blu-ray players a PS4...
About Time (Score:5, Interesting)
If so, then Sony, Nintendo, and MS will switch focus to peripherals (controllers, VR, etc) and become platforms that run on any capable computing device. Perhaps with something like a Ubi-key for their locked down DRM.
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Not necessarily, since game consoles tend to be good hardware/price compromise and games are optimized for those platforms since there are a lot of them.
The gamers (with occasional desktop needs) will buy the Xbox ; the desktopers (with occasional gaming) will buy a laptop/desktop. The extreme gamers will build their own crazy-GPU configuration.
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Re:About Time (Score:5, Interesting)
No. They're gaming PCs with locked-down hardware and a fuck-ton of DRM, and that's what Microsoft apparently wants to do to normal PCs too.
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And then the extreme gamer notices that nobody bothers catering to his 8900x5050 resolution triple-screen setup because everyone only codes for the console standard spec and doesn't bother to adjust anything because, hey, why bother, it runs on PCs anyway.
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Sony put PS2 or a PS3 (can't remember which) capability in their Blu-Ray players.
It's actually neither...and both. It is called Playstation Now and it's based on Gaikai technology. (with maybe some OnLive bits now too) It is in some TV's as well.
So, if you want, you can pay a too large monthly fee, hook up a controller, and play games streamed to it from the internet.
It's cheaper if you subscribe for longer periods. One month is 19.99
3 months is currently on sale for 29.99 (regularly 43.99) That said, I don't use it...because if I wanted to play a PS2 or PS3 game (which I do rarely) it's cheaper to get the disc and put it into my backwards compatible CECHE model PS3.
Re: About Time (Score:2)
The PS3 is better blu-ray player than most blu-ray players, so you are better off going the other way around.
Quite an unsurprising response to Steam/Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
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That just a natural response to steam/linux. I'm even surprised it took so long for them to enable any windows PC to run XBOX games since the XBOX is a PC running windows.
I don't think Steam on Linux requires responding to right now. It's still less than 1% of all Steam users.
Source: http://store.steampowered.com/... [steampowered.com]
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... for now. :-/
It seems like Microsoft is doing its best to drown customers a little more each year. The shenanigans of forced DirectX updates is part of that process.
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I hear ya! Valve + Steambox is helping to fix the major issues with Linux Gaming.
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I imagine it's also a response to the Steamlink. I don't know how popular they are yet but, they are excellent devices. They work well enough that I just racked my gaming machine and put a Steamlink in my living room and another one on a desk with a monitor/keyboard/mouse.
Who wants a console when you can just tuck a beefy gaming machine in an out of the way spot and buy some cheap Steamlinks to play your games in the most appropriate spot.
They're doing an excellent job of turning every PC (Score:3)
I know, troll.
But this whole Win7 -> Win10 upgrade thing has caused me to lose any residual trust I had for Microsoft.
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I know, troll.
But this whole Win7 -> Win10 upgrade thing has caused me to lose any residual trust I had for Microsoft.
---> into a Linux box
One Red Ring of Death (Score:2)
to rule them all...
Dammit Clippy! You only had 1 job!
Some problems with that idea (Score:2)
1. That would eat away at hardware cosole sales. MS won't go for that.
2. The whole point of consoles is that you can develop for a specific set of hardware. Though not impossible, and it would be great news for devs, I find it difficult to believe MS has solved all the problems relating to developinig for the wide array of PC hardware by making the software think it's running on a specific set of hardware, and performing fine. I am sure some games do low-level GPU stuff, how would that even work with a diff
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1. That would eat away at hardware cosole sales. MS won't go for that.
I *think* Microsoft consoles are sold at a loss, for the first couple years anyway and they make it back on xbox live and game sales -- they probably don't really care about lost sales of actual consoles... that's just the platform for their profit centers not an important profit center unto itself.
2. The whole point of consoles is that you can develop for a specific set of hardware
Console dev's still would do just that. This doesn't change that.
3. MS may try to block systems that aren't fast enough but some will get through.
Probably. But so what? The "default" reference platform will still be the actual physical xbox. If your PC doesn't measure up, that's on you.
many games simply were not made to handle systems that are too slow or too fast (thugh like the above, software running too fast is a problem that can be tackled).
Its be
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Think Steam client. Now think XBox/Windows store client. Now charge everyone on a Windows PC $60 a year for XBox live. You now just hit a large group that would have never purchased a console. Microsoft makes very little money on the XBox hardware. It will be almost pure profit with very little downside.
Great More Windows Bloat (Score:2, Insightful)
More junk on my system to support features I don't need or want.
Tried and failed miserably. (Score:2)
The Goal, (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft looks at Google, Apple, and Valve and sees the piles of money they're generating from royalties. They're receiving 10-25% of revenues from selling software on these platforms at the cost of what? Maintaining their distribution software, paying for bandwidth, and a couple of servers to store the data.
Microsoft believes this is their best future. Hardware performance is not gaining at the rate it used to. Many programs are being pushed to the web (Microsoft's other focus) which requires less computing power. This means consumers and businesses are not forced to upgrade their machines and OS's as often. The extremely profitable OS upgrading cycle is dead to them.
This is why they might allow Windows 10 to run in Xbox mode. Much like Valve they see no gains to be made developing hardware. It's a loss leader. Selling SDK's isn't what it used to be either. Distribution is where the money is. But making Windows 10 machines run in xbox they increase their user base and extremely lower their expenses. While revenues would sharply decline, profits would increase greatly. And profits is what matters.
This is yet another reason why Windows 10 is/was "Free" and another reason why "There won't be another Windows after 10." MS under the current CEO is going all in with Distribution, Cloud, and Data/Ads. Everything else (OS, Tools, SDKs, Etc) are just delivery mechanisms for their new profit model.
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That would be a terrifying thought if I believed for one nanosecond that Steve Ballmer had the athleticism necessary to shimmy up a drainpipe.
We built an omni-UX and that sank into the swamp (Score:3)
So we built another on top of that and that caught fire, burned and sank into the swamp.
So we built one on top of that and forced everyone into compliance... and that UX, that UX son stood!
Repeating the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome is a sign of insanity!
I'm not even sure what the business model here is - That they'll save a few million by only having one development team across all platforms?
A TV interface that you control with a D-pad or joystick is NOT the same as a PC interface with a keyboard/mouse is NOT the same as a tablet interface with a touch screen. No matter how much you try to unify the concepts the interactions/navigations/cues are DIFFERENT at the very least from an input standard and not even counting things like screen resolutions, viewing distances and, becoming more commonplace, display hardware.
Now there's nothing wrong with having one app store with one purchasing account for all the platforms but the UX for those should be customized to maximize the benefits of each platform. My ATM, smartphone and bank teller are all ways I perform the same functions with my bank - But they're in NO WAY a unified experience!!!
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Unfortunately... (Score:2)
Not gonna happen (Score:2)
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Indeed, which is why "turn[ing] every PC into an Xbox" almost certainly means disallowing that.
Why the hell would I want that? (Score:2)
The average console port is already bad enough, with barely sensible screen resolutions, mediocre graphics that ignore all capabilities of modern graphics cards, a network code that simply assumes you don't give a fuck about security because, hey, I was written for a gaming console where such petty things like antivirus and firewall doesn't exist, not to mention the barely (if at all) changed controls that fit perfectly for console controllers but are simply unusable for a keyboard and mouse setup (bonus po
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a network code that simply assumes you don't give a fuck about security because, hey, I was written for a gaming console where such petty things like antivirus and firewall doesn't exist
Or any other Windows service for that matter, no anti-malware, print spool, or any other thing that starts at boot on Windows.
But I'm not for sure that PS4's and PS3's don't have some kind of basic iptables firewall running (after all they're BSD based).....let me zenmap the PS4.
Rest mode:
Scanning 192.168.1.101 [65535 ports]
Not shown: 65534 closed ports
PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION
41800/tcp open http Mongoose httpd
MAC Address: 70:9E:29:28:8E:32 (Sony)
Device type: game console
Running: FreeBSD, Sony em
Why didn't they do this in the first place? (Score:2)
Why didn't Microsoft do this long ago with original Xbox? The main limiting factor I can think of is that games of that era were written at such a low level that slight differences in hardware would break them. That's actually still a problem now - even if a user has a video card and CPU more powerful than what is in an Xbox One, even if it's an AMD GPU, PCs don't have integrated memory. There are ways to take advantage of both the CPU and GPU sharing the same address space, and those tricks would fail o
No. No. No. No. (Score:4, Insightful)
If I wanted a fucking XBox, I'd buy a fucking XBox.
I use my PC for actual WORK, and I wish those asshats at Microsoft would realize this and stop trying to turn my workstation into a goddamned game console!
Wasn't Windows 8 enough of a fucking clue that people LOATHED a non-desktop UI on a desktop computer? How many more interface abortions do they need to foist off on us until they get it through their fucking heads?
Do people want to pay $100-200 for an OS? No? Give THEM a fucking XBox.
Let me pay for my OS AND LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!
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What made you believe that you can't still keep using your PC for "actual WORK", whatever that is?
You turn my firebreathing killer gaming PC... (Score:4, Funny)
...into a cheezy three hundred dollar X-Box and you're asking for trouble
They may as well... (Score:2)
No harm in Microsoft trying to blur the distinction between Windows 10 and an X Box. Because they're already done just about everything imaginable to get us to move our photography business to Mac.
I swear Nadella must be a double agent working for Apple or Google.
"DirectX in a console!" We went full circle. (Score:3)
I present to you, the DirectX Box! All the power of a gaming PC, but in a console. We will call it "Xbox for short"~
They will eliminate the advantages of a PC (Score:2)
Games that support this will lack any unofficial or unsanctioned mods, no community fixes possible, something that PC gamers consider to be crucial advantages for the platform
I hope they ask first! (Score:2)
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Maybe the next revision of GWX is going to get truly ambitious...
aka "systemd"? :D
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And then, moments before that happens, Apple buys Microsoft and shuts them down.
FOREVER!
The Linux community is destroying itself. (Score:3, Insightful)
If Microsoft really wants to destroy Linux, all it has to do at this point is sit back and watch.
The Linux community is doing a superb job of self-destructing, all on its own. It's causing more harm than Microsoft, SCO, or any other external party could have done.
Systemd has torn apart the Linux community. It has caused huge problems for many Linux users, as evidenced by the many mailing list posts and bug reports describing serious problems with it. A recent example is how a systemd change broke tools like [slashdot.org]
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So you really had to do all that to come up with:
nano /etc/network/interfaces
sudo systemctl daemon-reload
Looks like the real problem is that the Raspbian guides are not updated with that crucial last step
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A recent example is how a systemd change broke tools like screen and tmux.
It wasn't a systemd change but a change in how Debian configured systemd.
GNOME 3 was a serious regression from GNOME 2, alienating a huge number of users. Unity isn't much better.
Sure, some people don't like Gnome 3. I personally don't. But I don't have to use it and I have plenty of other options. Besides on those "servers and important systems" you refer to, they aren't running Gnome.
Firefox has gotten progressively worse, forcing most of its users over to Chrome.
PulseAudio has been problematic for so many users.
Did you just time travel from 2006 or something? I've been running Pulseaudio for years without major issues.
Re:The Linux community is destroying itself. (Score:4, Insightful)
Android and ChromeOS are very bad examples to use.
They're absolutely nothing like traditional Linux distros. Yes, modified versions of the Linux kernel are used, but that's where the similarities end.
The only times we've seen Linux become truly successful is when pretty much all of the traditional software running above it is thrown away.
That means X is discarded. That means systemd is discarded. That means most of the GNU utilities are discarded.
Then all of that is replaced with custom or proprietary software.
At that point, the Linux kernel isn't much more than a convenient hardware abstraction layer. It's used mainly because it's free and people are familiar with it, rather than any technological advantage it would give over other kernels.
We can't really attribute Android's success to Linux. Most Android users wouldn't have any clue that the Linux kernel is even present on their devices, it's buried under so many layers of abstraction.
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> The Linux community is doing a superb job of self-destructing,
And yet Linux based personal computing devices are outselling every other OS by a factor of 3 or 4 times.
Oh stop it.
Android and Chrome are about as similar to desktop Linux as DOS is to Windows NT.
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I'm currently using Fedora 24 Beta. No issues or hacking so far. I'm using Firefox on Gnome 3 on Wayland, listening music over Pulse-audio, systemd under the hood.
I think you should re-check your preposterous statements.
We're just seeing the exact same criticisms we have seen of Linux in the past getting rehashed. The old "linux is crap because my sound/3d/printer/whatever does work" meanwhile most people are using it just fine.
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Not unless you are running a Secure Boot (TM) authorized OS. On most firmware, we have options similar to ON (Secure) and OFF (Legacy). It will be trivial to have the hardware manufacturers set that to secure, be it in a firmware update or straight from the factory (e.g. Surface). Linux Secure Boot enabled OSes are Red Hat and possibly Fedora and CentOS. I think Ubuntu said they'd consider using Secure Boot signed binaries, but I don't know if they went through with acquiring the signing keys. In
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OpenFirmware hasn't been a thing since PowerPC.
Intel-based Macs use EFI, and the Windows 7 booting was achieved through the use of EFI BIOS Compatibility Mode. Under Windows 8 and above you can perform a straight EFI install and it boots far faster due to leaving behind the programmed-IO legacy and legacy edge-triggered interrupt handling of BIOS.
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... How in the name of the eight worlds of Sol ...
Back when I was knee-high to a grasshopper, there were nine worlds of Sol. You kids don't know how lucky you are by not confusing the solar system to Disneyland and only having to remember eight names!
Of course, science fiction has taken a hit: Planet IX sounds a whole lot less ominous than Planet X.
there were eight before that (Score:2)
There are people living now who didn't have 9, and, for a while Ceres was called a planet. You can either have 8, barring the specific discovery of IX, or dozens, when you throw in the rest of the TNOs and the KBOs.
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Of course, science fiction has taken a hit: Planet IX sounds a whole lot less ominous than Planet X.
Many machines on IX. New machines.
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Click the red X (Score:2)
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Great Scott, you're right! They did omit the "Windows" qualifier in the headline!
Are you a detective? /Stewie
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Well that and Linux isn't exactly a great Windows alternative. The Windows 10 silliness really would be a grand opportunity for Apple to release a cheaper Mac Mini.
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Well that and Linux isn't exactly a great Windows alternative. The Windows 10 silliness really would be a grand opportunity for Apple to release a cheaper Mac Mini.
WTF? $500 isn't cheap enough???
You haven't priced Intel CPUs [intel.com] lately, have you? The MSRP of the lowest-end CPU offered in a Mac mini (1.4 GHz i5), is almost 2/3 the luster price of the ENTIRE machine!!! Of course, Apple doesn't pay that; but I would be willing to bet that they pay around 60% of that, maybe more.
And before you whine about the $500 model, realize that 95% of Applications typically run on corporate desktops can EASILY be comfortably run on a machine of its specs. Easily.
OS X is not Window
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WTF? $500 isn't cheap enough???
No, it isn't, and what you get for $500 is a shitty computer to boot...
Acer Aspire - Intel i3 - 3.6GHz - $300
http://amzn.to/1UxLhFh [amzn.to]
For $200 less, you get a computer that is more than double the performance of the $500 Mac Mini, AND you can actually expand it. Add more RAM if you want, put a SSD in if you want, etc.
Plus, it comes with an actual keyboard and mouse to boot, something the Mac Mini lacks.
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Really? Better performance? With a i3?
Yes
PC Mag doesn't think so...
Learn what clock speed is, then buy yourself a clue...
A DUAL CORE i5 at 1.4GHz, even with a "turbo boost" to 2.7GHz, gets its ass kicked by a DUAL CORE i3 at 3.6GHz.
Oh, and by the time you "expand" it, it's hardly $300 now, is it?
Again, you're stupid and don't know what you're talking about. The $500 Mac Mini has 4GB of RAM and 500GB HD. The $300 Acer has 4GB of RAM and 500GB hard drive.
But the Mac Mini can't be upgraded. The Acer can.
Fact is,
No, the fact is you don't know what the hell you're talking about, you're another idiot running your mouth about shit you don't know
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I switched from Mac to PC mid 1990s because the PC had 10x the games. Both had Office. Both had Netscape. Games was the difference.
Note MS is moving heaven and earth to keep up the games on the PC. This is less about more X-box game sales and more about keeping the PC from drying up of games.
Of course, the PC is already drying up of anything except console-designed games and ports, so I don't see screaming, "Here come even more console games!" as buying much PC salvation.
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Depends on which Linux you're talking about -
No, it doesn't. It depends on which software you're using. For quite a few people, Linux is anywhere from adequate to awesome because of software support. For quite a few others, including myself, the Linux support either isn't there or it's not as strong. In my case there's a large speed hit because the developers have prioritized Windows over Linux.
First-time-configuration isn't even an issue with Linux adoption.
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I can't speak for the GP, but a less-hyperbolic version of that statement is certainly true in my case. Until now my wife's photography business has been Windows-based. At the next hardware refresh cycle we're almost certainly moving to Mac.
I could almost hold my nose regarding the Windows 10 spyware. I hate it, but not enough to let that make a business decision
Re:Linux here I come (Score:5, Insightful)
^This guy thinks it will mean having to control his Excel spreadsheet with an Xbox controller.^
I can understand not liking Windows, or Microsoft, but how in the hell is being able to run Xbox games on your Windows PC a complete, goodbye-cruel-world dealbreaker?
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Oh, you know those PCMR types, especially the Europeans. For them, Diablo/Star Trek Online/XCOM2/Whatever being released on consoles was the end of the world.
So this is the inverse of that. Any mixing of console and PC will contaminate their precious Gaben-blessed basement dwelling bodily fluids or something.
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Yeah, because they absolutely won't have a single setting in Group Policy to disable the thing for entire AD forests.
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Helix is presumably a contraction of "Hell-X (box)". My family''s experience of the UI is that it is unusable - the kids have abandoned it for games on Android tablets.
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Actually, they're playing the Ol' Switcheroo long game. By putting out Windows 8 in the condition it was in, then offering Windows 10 as a "gee, we're so sorry about how horrible that was", they were legitimately able to claim that Windows 10 was an "upgrade" (because after Windows 8 an unclogged toilet qualifies as an upgrade.)
But nobody who uses Windows 7 has ever believed Windows 10 is any kind of upgrade. Normal users were forced into it by GWX; so their installation statistics can be twisted into mak
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Don't worry. This is MS we're talking about. Though the idea itself could give them a huge advantage over Sony and Nintendo, you can bet that their implementation of it will be such a pain in the ass to setup and use that any advantage will be wasted. MS ain't exactly Apple when it comes to simplicity or ease-of-use. Just try navigating the already ridiculously over-cluttered Xbox UI sometime, trying to figure out how to do even the simplest task.
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The fact that you're playing a console oriented game on a PC is already a massive disadvantage even if it worked well.
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Why would Microsoft let you play Xbone "console exclusive" games on any generic Windows 10 PC
Because Microsoft loses money on every sale of the hardware of an Xbox One. If people don't even have to buy the hardware, then it's a win for Microsoft.
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Why would Microsoft let you play Xbone "console exclusive" games on any generic Windows 10 PC, especially when those games can be pirated much more easily on PC?
MS doesn't care about how many XBones sell, they care about how many people are able to play XBox games. It's always the games that are the main source of revenue. Even better if they no longer needed to pay Steam a cut for console ports!
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Indeed, why would they? Consider that the headline is "turn every PC into an Xbox" and not "turn every Xbox into a PC [by removing the DRM]" and you might discover the answer.
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the surface is fucking amazing having a real os in a tablet to get actual shit done.
It sure beats having a tablet OS in a real PC and getting nothing done, as with Win10 now.
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with the rumors of apple wanting to make OSX into iOS i was hoping microsoft would go the other direction... make all xboxes into pcs. the surface is fucking amazing having a real os in a tablet to get actual shit done.
Apple is WAY far away from making OS X in iOS.
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with the rumors of apple wanting to make OSX into iOS
Apple is doing no such thing.
OS X and iOS share many libraries, but the UI is very different and that's deliberate.