Activision Abuses DMCA To Take Knock Indie Game Entirely Off Steam 147
Reader He Who Has No Name writes: We've seen brain-dead, overzealous, and entirely over-automated DMCA takedown requests bring down music and videos, but this may be the first case of an entire video game being knocked out. Earlier today David Prassel, creator of Trek Industries and developer of the not-without-controversy ORION: Dino Horde / Prelude and the early-access Guardians of ORION, posted that his current project had been entirely removed from Steam after a questionable DMCA allegation from Activision. Prassel explains further, "We've made Steam our primary platform, but this has put a definite scare into us going forward considering our entire livelihood can be pulled without a moment's notice, without any warning or proper verification. I cannot even confirm that the representative from Activision is a real person as absolutely no results pop up in any of my searches." Image comparisons against at least two of the weapon models claimed to be infringing were posted by Prassel and in at least one thread on a forum.
What's more, it appears Activision is alleging not a vertex-for-vertex and texel-for-texel theft and duplication of the Call Of Duty: Black Ops 3 2D -- 3D art assets, but in fact an infringing artistic similarity and design of separately created art content -- something that the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright or possibly trade dress). Since this takedown falls directly in the middle of the Steam Summer Sale -- which probably is not a coincidence -- it will profoundly impact Trek Industry's potential sales.Polygon has more details.
What's more, it appears Activision is alleging not a vertex-for-vertex and texel-for-texel theft and duplication of the Call Of Duty: Black Ops 3 2D -- 3D art assets, but in fact an infringing artistic similarity and design of separately created art content -- something that the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright or possibly trade dress). Since this takedown falls directly in the middle of the Steam Summer Sale -- which probably is not a coincidence -- it will profoundly impact Trek Industry's potential sales.Polygon has more details.
What next? (Score:1)
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Apparently Activision have backed down
Re:What next? (Score:4, Informative)
IANAL but given my understanding of DMCA provisions:
Most likely the chain of events is actually...
1) Activision file DMCA with Steam
2) Steam take game down
3) TREK Industries file counter claim with Steam
4) Steam under DMCA rules have done their part with the initial takedown and respect the counter claim and restore content.
Next step is Activision have to file full court proceedings which will take a little time. Of course TREK have set themselves up for full on collapse if their counter claim is proven to be invalid or fraudulent but given the junk status their game already had I suspect its a cut and run situation for them. That is if Activision feel that the additional legal costs are worthwhile.
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If their junk status is regarding the price, that's just Trek's way of getting as many eyes on their projects as possible; they'd rather have 10000 copies sell at $1, than 1000 copies at $10, which I can understand. Their tactics have been successful in this respect -- about 2M copies of Prelude have sold, and over 150K copies of "Guardians of Orion" AKA "The Orion Project" (I can't tell which na
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It's piss poor; how difficult is it to take a modern, real-world battle rifle (for example) and turn it
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Take a look at the comparison photos in the Steam link, the shotgun looks like almost exactly the same model, the rifle looks very different though, so I am not sure why they think that one is stolen.
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Even in the best case scenario (for them), Trek's integrity will be in question from here on out.
If the asset theft is relegated to only 1 in-game model, then the whole thing could be chalk
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Of course you can, it was right there in the post.
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https://i.sli.mg/xpIy1W.png [i.sli.mg]
This one is pretty damning for Orion
Re:What next? (Score:5, Informative)
This gif is good switching between the Orion and CoD model:
http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif
I was ready to come down on their side, but after seeing the screenshots it clear they stole the asset, now they're lying and trying to play the victims.
Takedown was legitimate. No sympathy.
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On the other hand, it's pretty hard for me to work up the energy to defend a derivative grey/brown shooter in 2016.
Re:What next? (Score:4, Insightful)
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This gif is good switching between the Orion and CoD model:
http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif
I was ready to come down on their side, but after seeing the screenshots it clear they stole the asset, now they're lying and trying to play the victims.
Takedown was legitimate. No sympathy.
Not really. That screenshot shows that the 4 portions are not similar at all. If they did copy it, each component was clearly changed.
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and with no impartial review whatsoever
This is not allowed. Steam isn't allowed to make a judgement call. The rest of your post is accurate though.
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So the question becomes: Did one copy the other, or are they both copied from the same source, being features of military weapons that actually exist.
If it's the first, good luck proving it. If it's the second, Activision's lawyers can go shove an assault rifle up their asses.
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It depends how badly they reused the meshes. I don`t have either game, nor the tools handy, but it could be easy to validate the mesh coordinates. If the number of vertex using the same (1e-4 difference) coordinate exceeds 5-10% and I`d have a hard time believing it was done manually and not copied. From the screenshots, I'd guess that it could be much higher than this.
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It won't be that obvious in any case. When 'sampling' another 3d asset you are always going to have to morph the meshs, to bring the parts together at the edges. But a lazy thief will reuse bitmaps fragments, just color swapping etc.
The real problem is that the COD models are really silly game model weapons. One has the distance between butt and trigger at about 15% of the weapon length, you'd fall over forwards. The Orion model is the best shown.
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Unless you go down the complete sci-fi/fantasy route, all guns are going to bear some similarity based on their expected function. They all have a handle, a trigger, a barrel, a hole at the business end, and some sort of aiming aid on top.
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"Artistic similarity"? (Score:3)
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Re:"Artistic similarity"? (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah I was confused... a drum magazine versus a bullpup... different textures... maybe a computer artist can chime in with how one could look stolen from the other?
The things they shared on the post are not the same that were reported, I was reading on reddit about this and there is a pretty good comparison of various assets as well as some history of the company, their shady business and other things they have done.
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions/
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Nothing alike, right. [i.sli.mg]
Re:"Artistic similarity"? (Score:5, Informative)
The top rail and sight assembly are identical, too identical to be a coincidence.
But that's because they both copied from the M14.
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Ding! This shit isn't fucking new at ALL.
Prior art exists EVERYWHERE.
Including a certain 2011 porno movie called Horizon.
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> But that's because they both copied from the M14.
I want to believe. This was my first thought too, but, in order to verify that, one more step is needed, find the real rail that looks like....I am not.
What strikes me is the little flourishes. Look at the front of the rail by the sight, it has a stamp in the metal that looks like some sort of mechanical reinforcement, or decoration. They are nearly identical, yet, in all the images of M14s and their rails/sights I just don't see some of these details.
It
Re:"Artistic similarity"? (Score:4, Insightful)
You've obviously never even seen an M14.
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M14? No.
I saw something very similar on an 'MP-5' civilian semi and also on a AR-15 'pistol'. Both owned by the same dude, who liked to shoot at targets 15 feet away with his scoped 223 pistol, using the scope...I digress.
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You're not hallucinating. The dev paired mismatched weapons on purpose.
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png [imgur.com]
http://i.imgur.com/WCL4fCQ.png [imgur.com]
The guy copied sections of the model vertex for vertex.
Re: "Artistic similarity"? (Score:2)
Or 3D-scanned a gun of the same type.
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"The guy copied sections of the model vertex for vertex."
Nope. Try actually being a game dev and having the tools to check for yourself.
Mesh is almost identical except there's no identical scaling match done, which means it was made by hand.
Activision's textures were ripped from other games. I can see at least two ROTT textures and at least two rip-off mods of the id Doom UAC logo, one of them being directly on the gun itself (Actually, it's closer to the Quake I door in design.)
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Are...Are you actually bringing out the 'be an actual game dev' and in the same sentence trying to say you can't fudge scaling?
Did that just happen?
Re:"Artistic similarity"? (Score:4, Informative)
Ignore the textures which are mostly from the Unreal Engine base assets on the Orion guns.
The Orion guns are made up of the same base components as the Activation guns but mixed/matched and are vertex for vertex copies. For instance Barrel from A and stock and sight from B. There are plenty of better comparisons with screenshot examples on the Steam blog/article's comments.
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When Activision rips off real-world guns for their games it's "innovative".
When anyone else does it it's "copyright infringement".
Re:"Artistic similarity"? (Score:4, Informative)
http://imgur.com/a/O5Fj4 [imgur.com]
It's a direct lift. Probably "vertex for vertex". Definitely a copyright violation.
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This isn't the first time they have been accused (Score:1)
This studio and the games they produce has gone through numerous iterations in order to escape previous accusations of plagiarism, bad management, not paying employees. This doesn't surprise me at all.
Instead of looking at activation as the big bad, maybe people should look at the history of the studio.
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TBH the Orion studio don't seem to value their game much...
Normal price: £0.79
Sale discount: 51%
Current price: £0.39
If a game is only worth 39p and has predominantly negative reviews this is noting more than attention grabbing in a vein hope for a few more sales before they totally abandon it.
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The 'studio' (being like one dude, his girlfriend, and a couple of other randos) is known for parodying shit as well.
You do have the education to know what a parody is, yes?
The game is loaded with them. Hence, protected.
This is why Activision tried DMCA instead of court, as they would have lost HARD. Not to mention their own violations would've been EASILY made known. I've already pointed out to them how similar various weapons look to a sci-fi PORNO from 2011, and told them I'd be quite interested in letti
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Thanks Slashdot for a buggy interface that reveals IP addresses through a GreaseMonkey script...
Please share. It's not the /. devs will ever fix the issue.
"QUOTE" By Warskull from reddit (Score:5, Informative)
(Since this may influence your view on this)
"Are we sure this is abuse? The dev behind Orion has a sordid history and a history of lying. I wouldn't put it past him to steal assets.
Remember this is the guy who change his game's name three times to dodge badge metacritic scores. After getting $20K from kickstarter, he failed to pay his developers and then fired them all.
He also has a history of stealing assets. He got caught stealing the armory model from NS2 (has since took down the videos and removed it), stole a T-Rex from Primal Carnage (and tweaked it a bit), and it was suspected weapon sounds were stolen from Counter-strike.
This looks to be a legit use of the DMCA."
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manishs, can you please try to edit properly? (Score:3, Informative)
Hi, manishs! I know you're relatively new here, but can you please try to put some care into editing the submissions you post?
The title for this one is obviously fucked up: "Activision Abuses DMCA To Take Knock Indie Game Entirely Off Steam".
That should be either "to take" or "to knock", but not "to take knock".
We don't have high expectations for the editing here, of course, but mistakes like this are bad even by the very low standards we hold Slashdot to.
Please, try to be just slightly better than Timothy and the other former editors were. Please!
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Hi!
Slashdot Administration here. Your suggestion has been considered, and rejected. Thank you for your time!
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Maybe it was meant to say "take knock off indie game"
I wondered whether the game was called "Knock" or something, or if the gameplay somehow involved knocking on a door (possibly after lighting a bag of poop on fire), but your idea makes more sense.
Though calling the game a "knock-off" would seem to undercut the premise of the article, which is that the DMCA is being invoked when it shouldn't. Still, I've heard many times that you can't copyright the mechanics of a game, so maybe it doesn't matter if it's a "knock-off" anyway.
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Maybe it was meant to say "take knock off indie game"
Please do the needful.
Taken from reddit comments (Score:4, Informative)
Are we sure this is abuse? The dev behind Orion has a sordid history and a history of lying. I wouldn't put it past him to steal assets.
Remember this is the guy who change his game's name three times to dodge badge metacritic scores. After getting $20K from kickstarter, he failed to pay his developers and then fired them all.
He also has a history of stealing assets. He got caught stealing the armory model from NS2 (has since took down the videos and removed it), stole a T-Rex from Primal Carnage (and tweaked it a bit), and it was suspected weapon sounds were stolen from Counter-strike.
Take a look at this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
Direct copy of CoD assets, like it or not.
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Agreed. I saw this news elsewhere, and it's pretty clear that the assets are, bare minimum, "traced" from other games. I'd need to see a more technical analysis to know if they were directly ripped from another game (and then modified just enough to not be copy/paste), but that seems more probable than not.
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You're being much, much, too blatant in the things you're making up. Anyone who can use Google can tell your claim is made of whole cloth.
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Take a look at this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png [imgur.com]
Direct copy of CoD assets, like it or not.
That doesn't actually prove anything. After all, this is exactly the same [nexusmods.com] as the one found in the game. [imgur.com] But the models were redone by hand. You can even prove that by looking at the very basic information in nifskope. The only thing that image actually proves? It looks exactly the same, nothing more.
Until the assets from both games are pulled and compared using 3DS, nifskope, maya and so on, this actually boils down to a whole lot of "he said/they said/etc." Even that thread on PCMR doesn't prove shit
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Skyrim (or any mods) in general are a terrible example to use. A lot of modders rip 3D models from other games and use them for the mods. And usually label them as game rips explicitly.
And looking at nifscope information is not very useful, considering the general process is:
1) Rip the model from the other game .nif file
2) Imported into Blender/3DMax/whatever modeler
3) Rigged with Skyrim skeletons so the physics work
4) Exported as a
Not to mention that it's very different when game modders use these resour
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If one game makes a model of Mount Rushmore, then no other game can use Mount Rushmore in their game? WTH are you smoking?
Lots of game weapons take design elements from REAL weapons. Does that mean the makers of those REAL weapons should sue Activision for copyright infringement on their design elements?
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Of course they can. Now if the rest is a perfect duplicate in every way including the finest details of the textures and the grass then it would be copyright infringement.
The fact that we see so many games using real weapons but none of them have come up with such clear obvious duplicates is pretty damn incriminating, as are the fact that none of the guns look alike but for some reason the sights themselves are 100% identical. So why apply artistic license to one and not the other? Oh that's right, hiding c
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You apparently believe that if someone were to copy something by hand, it's not copyright infringement. You're wrong.
If I sit down a draft a F1 race car by what I see, it's not copy infringement anymore then a person copying a weapon mesh by hand and drawing it out in their own copy of 3DS or Maya.
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You're still wrong.
No, I'm actually not. You just happen to be ignorant on actual copyright laws.
The PCMR subreddit summarizes the allegations (Score:1)
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions
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Reddit is a shit source for anything that requires verification. Boston Marathon, anyone?
Activision didn't abuse anything (Score:5, Informative)
This content was STOLEN from activision by these dodgy crooks and polygon used the worst pics.
Here are some better ones.
https://np.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q62te/we_need_help_getting_the_word_out_activision/d4qnlgy?context=3
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Not the first time this studio was accused of asset theft.
I know its imgur but it is all I could find in short notice.
https://imgur.com/Nl1m8 [imgur.com]
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Polygon deliberately misrepresenting something!
Tell me it isn't so....
Reddit Detectives (Score:2, Informative)
The PCMR subreddit seems pretty sure the DMCA claim was legit. The similarities shown in the thread are striking, to say the least.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions/
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You think Activision is right but you're only looking at TWO sources, AND ignoring the fact that the DMCA filed was totally invalid as it didn't have required information.
Look at a bunch of other sources, you soon see that Activision is the one doing the ripping off of assets. One model I can identify as a modified Unreal CAR (Right down to primary mesh vertices) and several textures were either ripper or 'enhanced' (I see several Rise of the Triad textures) and several gun pieces look to be ripped directly
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Why don't you provide a link to the notice, then explain what the hell you're talking about? From the Steam thread, the takedown notice included this:
That's 99% of what's needed - to identify the infringing work, and the work which is b
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This isn't about Activision and if they steal assets from other companies, it is if the game Orion stole assets from Activision, which is appears by evidence to be true.
My Favorite Activision game was Megamania (Score:1)
Activision backed down... (Score:2, Insightful)
Their DMCA wasn't even valid and I could find several things they ripped off in a 2011 sci-fi porno movie called Horizon (your sloped top rail on a gun ain't new, Activision.) As soon as I pointed that out, that DMCA mysteriously vanished and Orion was back on the Steam Sale.
Looks like Activision doesn't want the fact that their game devs are stealing assets from non-game industries, specifically the porno industry, getting out.
DMCA (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright is exactly what the DMCA covers. It is, after all, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The submitter seems very biased. There are comparison pictures on reddit (and now here) which clearly show infringing content.
Re:DMCA (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed. While some of the CoD assets were based on real-life items, they were also clearly created specifically for that game since they had various embellishments and details unique to that game (as one of the examples floating around suggests, in much the same way that AK-47s look different in different games)...which were meticulously reproduced in Orion's models, even if they covered them up with different textures.
Moreover, it sounds like Orion's developer has a history of copyright infringement. For instance, the reddit post that's blowing up [reddit.com] links to a a set of examples of plagiaraized artwork [imgur.com] used for achievement images in one of their other games (in fact, it may be the game they renamed and re-released, allegedly so that they could dodge the bad scores the game had on Metacritic and trick people into buying it again). And after the developer created an Indiegogo campaign with a goal of $500 to help cover their legal fees and whatnot for this DMCA takedown, the first "donation" [imgur.com] was $500 from the developer themselves [indiegogo.com].
Everything about this dev just smells fishy, and while I typically can't stand Activision as a company (nor have I ever had a desire to play any of their CoD games, let alone actually done so), I'm having trouble finding fault with them here. It sounds like this dev is ripping off their 3D art assets and slapping some new textures on them to try and call them their own. And it seems clear that they know they're in the wrong, since when they tried to defend their models as being their own, they didn't do the obvious thing someone who was innocent would do by posting like-for-life, side-by-side shots of both their model and CoD's asset so that we could all see that theirs was unique. Instead, they posed Activision's and their guns at wildly different angles, seemingly with the intent of obscuring the similarities that would be glaringly obvious if they had provided useful side-by-shots shots...as the side-by-side shots posted by others have demonstrated.
That said, it does seem like there's some Activision shilling going on in the comments here too, what with all these ACs posting the same stuff over and over again. Not sure what to make of that, but regardless of any shilling, it doesn't change that at least from a layman's perspective, it looks like this dev lifted models from Activision, along with all of the embellishments and details that make them uniquely Activision's, and now they're being rightfully called out on it.
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Could be as simple as people on Steam, or reddit, finding out about this discussion and not having accounts here. Regardless, if they're posting deliberately misleading info, they should be called out. If the info is accurate, what does it matter who posts it?
So send counter-notice. "C" in DMCA (Score:4, Insightful)
> the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright
What does the author think the Digital Millenium COPYRIGHT Act covers, if not copyright?
If the DMCA notice is wrong, the respondent should simply send a counter-notice and the game will go back online. Then Activision can decide if they want to sue in federal court. Reddit commentors who have looked into the facts say Activision is right.
Silent homage is not copyright infringement (Score:3)
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From what I've seen on some of the pictures, the parts of the guns which are artistically similar but not identical are such because they were copied from a different model of the same game. There's not an original mesh in the entire gun, just a few of the colours on some of the textures have changed, but even some of those look like direct copy.
It appears about as much of an artistically similar work as grabbing the Mona Lisa and running it through a photocopier. Given how simple it would be to make differ
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You must be looking at a different comparison pic than I did....only the mounted sight on the two guns that I saw looked anything alike, and the shape of the guns t
Streisand (Score:2)
Put your pitch forks away (Score:1)
1. activision already backed down
2. they had a very legitimate claim and shouldnt have
http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
This isnt a case of big bad company does bad things, it's little shitty company does lazy things and big company takes notice
this is not true at all (Score:2)
It is clear that ORION makes its gun geometry by cutting up models from Activision games and rearranging them. They are stealing assets, as they have done with previous games.
Functional in nature (Score:2)
Models of military firearms are functional and nature and should not necessarily be covered by copyright.
At least that's what Trek Industries lawyers might want to start saying.
Tortuous interference with commerce? (Score:2)
This strikes me as a exact match with a defined category of criminal action: Tortious interference with commerce
I'm no lawyer, so I may have this a bit wrong, but to me it looks like an exact match.