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The Courts Games

'Star Control: Origins' Pulled From Steam And GOG Following DMCA Claim (polygon.com) 185

PC gaming stores Steam and GOG have took down the video game Star Control: Origins following DMCA takedown notices issued by two designers of the original Star Control games, Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III. Star Control: Origins, a spiritual successor to the old games, is a strategy game about exploring space in an alternate galaxy. From a report: According to Stardock CEO Brad Wardell, those who have already purchased Origins can continue playing it. He added that the DMCA claim will cause his company "to lay off some of the men and women who are assigned to the game." The legal battle over the future of the Star Control franchise dates back to 2013 when Stardock purchased rights to Star Control intellectual property from Atari during a bankruptcy auction. Three years later, in 2016, Stardock revealed that it was developing Star Control: Origins. At the time, Stardock said it was working under the assumption that it had "acquired the rights to Star Control 1/2/3." Court documents reveal that may not be the case, and that Ford and Reiche may instead have conflicting rights to the IP.
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'Star Control: Origins' Pulled From Steam And GOG Following DMCA Claim

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  • by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:02PM (#57893256)

    I like Stardock games, and I've read good things about star control: origins, although I haven't purchased it (yet). I was a big fan of the originals, and planned on buying the one from the authors too... (Ghosts of the Precursors) when it comes out.

    TFA has a pretty good summary though, of why stardock is to blame here, in the judges own words:

    âoeThe harm Plaintiff [Stardock] complains of is indeed of its own making,â writes Armstrong. âoePlaintiff had knowledge of Defendantsâ(TM) [Ford and Reicheâ(TM)s] copyright claims from the outset. Despite that knowledge, it developed potentially infringing material without resolution of the IP ownership issues, and then publicized the release of that material during the pendency of this action. It now claims that its investment in Origins and reputation are on the line. Given that Plaintiff largely created the foregoing predicament, the Court is disinclined to extricate Plaintiff from a peril of its own making.â

    It was beyond foolish to produce the game without resolving the IP conflicts which were a known issue from day zero. It's not like this copyright action came out of nowhere.

    • It was beyond foolish to produce the game without resolving the IP conflicts which were a known issue from day zero.

      I guess sometimes it *is* better to ask for permission rather than beg for forgiveness!

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TheSunborn ( 68004 )

      I really don't think Stardock is that much to blame.

      The situation started because "Ford and Reiche" sold the rights to the Star Control trademark(name). And after they had sold that, they announced that that they were creating a successor to Star Control. And they are obviously not allowed to do that.

      The ip situation is odd. Star Dock agree that they don't own the ip itself, but they claim they don't use it(And thus don't need it), because Star Control: Origin contains their own ip, set in the Star Control

      • by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:00PM (#57893676)

        Yes, the IP situation is odd, but they clearly knew it was odd AND contentious BEFORE they started writing code so they should have worked it out ahead of time.

        The situation started because "Ford and Reiche" sold the rights to the Star Control trademark(name). And after they had sold that, they announced that that they were creating a successor to Star Control. And they are obviously not allowed to do that.

        Actually they absolutely can. They sold the trademark. Trademarks are funny things, they don't come with any of the copyrights. They are JUST the name. As long as the sequel doesn't use the $NAME, they can use everything else.

        but they claim they don't use it(And thus don't need it), because Star Control: Origin contains their own ip, set in the Star Control universe.

        They could have made a star control style game like starcontrol 3's relationship to starcontrol 1/2, and called it star control because they DO own the name... but they apparently reference the Arilou, and apparently had DLC with the Melnorme in it etc... so they very likely crossed the line into using IP they don't own.

        "Somehow unrelated: Star Dock had the right to sell the old Star Control games."

        In much the same way buying (non-exclusive!!) rights to distribute the Ghostbusters movie doesn't give you copyright on the movie, or any of its songs, or rights to the future of the franchise etc. You have a right to make copies of that one thing and to sell those copies. That's it.

        • by Junta ( 36770 )

          The tricky part is that Star Control 3 is in the mix, and they seem to have acquired Copyright of *that*, which did not have copyright from Paul and Fred at all.

          So either Star Control 3 was illegally produced and Stardock inherited that situation or Star Control 3 is legal and Stardock can get in that way.

          The real problem started when Stardock went to try to block Paul and Fred, which was just bad form. They didn't relish the thought of competing with the recognized creative force behind the franchise and

          • by vux984 ( 928602 )

            StarControl 3 ... first have you played it?

            It's very much exactly what stardock would have been allowed to create... its a 'star control' style game, with exploration and planets and top down battles, and its called star control (because they had the trademark), but its not really connected to the previous games at all in any way. I think maybe there's a one sentence in the manual like ... Welcome to starcontrol 3, which takes place 1000 years later in another corner of another galaxy..." and that pretty mu

      • by WorBlux ( 1751716 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:22PM (#57893842)

        No Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III. entered into contract with Accolade, a game company to develop Start control, wherin the creative content of the game would be copyrighted by Ford and Reiche, and accolade would get exclusive rights as long as a minimum royalty was paid. Accolade also recieved rights to the trademark and and marketing materials created for the game. Atari later bought accolade, but did not pay the minimum royalty from 2001-2011, so the publishing rights also reverted to Ford and Reiche. Later F+R, Atarti, and GOG entered a three way agreement to publish SC1/2, which did pass to Startdock for a while.

        Ford and Reiche didn't sell the mark (and never owned it), but trademarks do have fair use exceptions, one of which is the nominative use. For example saying software is compatible with Windows does not violate Microsoft trademark. I don't think the simple truthful description that a game contains material from or is in the same universe as a different game is unfair use of trademarks.

    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:23PM (#57893408)

      Also Stardock should have paid attention to the situation. Ford and Reiche had a 1988 licensing agreement with Accolade with Accolade owning certain things like the trademark but Ford and Reiche owning other things. Stardock believed it purchased all necessary IP when it bought out Atari's assets (who had purchased Accolade) when Atari when bankrupt. However two things should have alerted Stardock that this claim was tenuous. First was the 2002 open source version of SC2 called The Urquan Masters which was initially released by Ford and Reiche and not opposed by Atari. Second was the 2011 inclusion of Star Control 1 and 2 on the GOG store. As soon as it went on sale, Ford and Reiche objected and contacted Atari who worked out a new licensing agreement with Ford and Reiche.

      The Urquan Masters port is telling because it does not use the Star Control name (trademarked by Accolade) but is essentially the same game as SC2. If Ford and Reiche didn't have IP rights they could not have open sourced it. During the incident with the sale on GOG, Atari all but admitted that it did not own the rights to SC1 or SC2. Thus when Stardock bought Atari's assets later, Stardock could not have bought the Star Control rights.

      • by H3lldr0p ( 40304 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:36PM (#57893490) Homepage

        It's likely a "speak no evil, hear no evil" situation. They didn't ask and when someone brought it up, Stardock likely replied that they didn't want to know.

        Stardock wanted the brand that was it.

        Maybe it's time we started to look at forcibly retiring trademarked brands when the original company goes under or is bought under duress. All this seems to do is to turn brands into trading cards to be traded among companies. That's not good for anyone other than the wealthy who try to hide behind them.

      • by Junta ( 36770 )

        I thought Star Control: Origins ditched all the aliens and ships though, so even less related to the assets than Star Control 3?

        Stardock did create the mess by trying to block Paul and Fred, but Paul and Fred might be going a bit overboard in their 'counterattack' here.

      • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

        If Ford and Reiche didn't have IP rights they could not have open sourced it.

        I think your post uses the phrase "IP rights" too vaguely, given that a crisp characterization is the CRUX of the disagreement between the parties. What IP rights are there? ...

        * Copyright in the source code and artwork and music of SC1, SC2
        * Copyright in the source code and artwork of SC3, excepting those bits already copyrighted in SC1/SC2
        * Trademark in the name "Source Control"
        * Any other ad-hoc license agreements

        Copyright prevents other people from publishing copies or derivative works of your copyright

        • This is my understanding of IP and it gets complicated. Ford and Reiche owns:
          • Copyrights to SC1 and SC2 including code, characters, universe, etc.
          • Distribution rights by default to SC1 and SC2

          Accolade/Atari owned:

          • Copyright to SC3 including code and artwork but not characters/universe of SC1 or SC2
          • The trademark of "Star Control"

          This is entirely down to the details of the licensing agreement between FordReiche and Accolade. I've found it impossible to know what this was. It doesn't give us information to know who owns copyright, nor who owns trademark.

          If Ford and Reiche can object to the sale of SC1 and SC2 on GOG then they have at the minimum distribution rights; however, they derive their distribution rights from owning the c

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      in the judges own words:

      The judge went on to write things that seemed questionable to me...

      Would Stardock suffer financial harm from a DMCA notice by Ford+Reiche? The judge said this claim "depends upon the unsupported assumption that GOG and Valve will remove Origins upon receipt of a DMCA notice". But it's a very well supported assumption, that did indeed turn out true, and the judge earlier had indeed explained that GOG and Valve would have to take it down because that's how the DMCA works.

      The judge also says that economic harm

      • by vux984 ( 928602 )

        Generally I'm with you BUT, there doesn't need to be a provision in the DMCA for damages, they can simply sue for damages, and show that they were actually harmed. Although that will likely need to wait until they are exonerated ... assuming they are exonerated, which is dubious.

        "and overall the industry seems extremely slow to act on counter-notifications"

        True... but i don't think the actions of the RIAA/MPAA on Youtube and Facebook or whatever are representative of what a DMCA takedown notice for a game o

    • by G00F ( 241765 )

      I hate out copyright laws, but honestly it looks like stardock is not doing wrong.

      It looks like they tried to involve those two early on(2013), kept them informed, and it wasn't until 2017 when Paul back stabed them, and trying to do as much harm as possible with Stardock(brad) trying to find a way to make things work.

      It was Paul who in 2017 revealed that he was undermining Stardock by releasing the real sequel to StarControl 2. It wasn't until then that Paul tried claiming stardock didnt own the trademark

      • by vux984 ( 928602 )

        I don't call it a back stab, more of a 'tit-for-tat' situation. Can you back your claims up with cites?

        Paul didn't surprise anyone when he informed Stardock he was going to be releasing a sequel. That was an open discussion ALL along. The only area of possible debate there is the timing... that Paul may have timed his announcement to leverage the existing publicity of Origins being near launch, and that was a bit of a dick move, that both sides could have handled more graciously.

        And remember, Paul didn't s

        • by G00F ( 241765 )

          Funny, modded down...I can't really blame that..

          One of the better sources...
          https://forums.starcontrol.com... [starcontrol.com]

          Stardock does own trademark and more is debatable, until proven in court. Stardock tried working with, and encouraging them to be part of things even then they kept them in loop for years. (now I fully realize Stardock could be doing this because they don't have full ownership of all trademark/IP)

          Stardock also didn't include IP from first two games. So no IP clash in Starcontrol Orgins yet DMCA.
          Paul

          • by vux984 ( 928602 )

            "Stardock also didn't include IP from first two games. "

            They are splitting a hair their. I mean they have their 'own' Arilou, and their 'own' Melnorme... like writing "Star Wars" fan fiction in an alternate Star Wars universe where Wookies were shorter and Gungans had 4 arms. So totally not infringement of any IP right? That's definitely lawyer territory if you ask me. :)

            "Paul/Fred had claimed they couldn't do it because of employment and to busy, but after Stardock had a release date they magically had started something"

            Seeing someone else start a project you've always had a passion for is often motivation to finally do it yourself. I agree this could hav

  • It was announced, as of January 3, 2014, that Stardock has started a Star Control reboot, but has no estimation of a release date.[13] The Star Control website and forums have also been relaunched.[14]

    It seems to me that if there is a public announcement that you are developing a game that specifically mentions your "IP" and you fail to raise any objections for 4 years then you have failed to enforce your copyright. Only raising objections three months after release is such bullshit.

    I don't care if the owners are technically entitled under the law, this is still bullshit.

    • by Depili ( 749436 )
      The issue was actually raised years ago for the first time. And the court proceedings started before the release of SC: Origins because of Reasons
    • If the evidence from Ford and Reiche are to be believed, they objected to the game for years in their correspondence with Stardock if it contained any IP from SC1 and SC2. Stardock constantly assured them that the game they were developing would not. Near the time of release, Stardock changed their tune and claimed they owned the IP from their Atari purchase even declaring that Ford and Reiche didn't create the original games but were contractors.
      • Stardock constantly assured them that the game they were developing would not.

        This is prime example of why you should get things in writing.

        Thanks for the info, their claims seem far more legitimate now.

    • The first court filing was actually December 2017, over a year ago, and according to those filings there had been ongoing communication around potential infringement between the parties for years before without resolution. It seems that the final straw for F&P was the announcement of the DLC that by its very nature can't not infringe as it is based on the original games.

  • I'd just like to point out that you can still purchase the game. A DMCA take-down notice was sent to GoG and Steam, both of which just followed the directive of the take-down notice and removed the game from their sites. Stardock still sells the game directly from their website. I'm not an expert so I'm not sure if Stardock is obligated to respect a DMCA notice to their own website. As I understand it, take down notices are sent to third-party sites, informing that third party that there is a copyright co
    • I just purchased the game.

      I would never have known about it except for this controversy, thanks!

      • Update: The key worked just fine in Steam to download and install the game. Also, the game is $10 cheaper than advertised ($20 not $30).

    • DMCA is mostly about safe harbour not Copyright. Once a DMCA notice is received the website operator can no longer claim ignorance to distributing copyright protected material. Since Stardock is already on the hook for copyright infringement they have no reason to comply with the request and by doing so would make it appear that they do not own the relevant copyrights. No company is obligated to respect DMCA notice's they just become liable for distribution of the content if they don't.
  • by N_Piper ( 940061 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:11PM (#57893772)
    here's a reading of the judges opinion on a request for injunction against DMCA takedown notices https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    It is quite apparent that at no point did Stardock believe it had purchased Star Control 1&2 but what they may have thought was that by releasing the Star Control 2 source code as "The Ur-Quan Masters" under GPL that Paul Reiche and Robert Ford had given up any commercial interest and thus the entire game was free to redistribute as they saw fit when in reality the actual graphics, text and audio were all released under Creative Commons Noncommercial Sharealike and the copyrights and trademarks other than the "Star Control" name itself are still held quite tightly by Paul and Robert.
  • by pegr ( 46683 )

    Who do they really expect to buy a reboot of some shitty DOS game? Who. Cares. Get over yourselves.

    • Who do they really expect to buy a reboot of some shitty DOS game? Who. Cares. Get over yourselves.

      Sequel. Reboot implies starting over. I'm definitely buying the one with the proper sequel content over the one with the official sounding name.
      Of course, I'm more than above-average in my SC fanaticism. Been a big fan since Archon and StarCon.

  • "Stardock will not be bullied by the President of an Activision studio (Reiche) who perhaps thinks these sorts of tactics will force us to give up our rights to our IP or trademarks. You can read the background here:" https://forums.starcontrol.com... [starcontrol.com]
    • by sinij ( 911942 )
      Brad and Stardock has a lengthy history of various murky and morally dubious litigation. They sued employees, partners, reporters, websites and so on.

      There is no way this was a surprise, Brad wanted a legal fight and lined events to win it.
  • Must they refund you? and if not and you do an charge back can that = an full ban of all paided for games?

    • Why would they refund you if the IP of the game is in question? If Stardock loses, they have to pay Ford and Reiche all proceeds from their sales. The consumers are not out anything.
      • and if a judge orders it removed?? with some poorly worded thing that = must be fully purged?

        GOG should be fine other then maybe no re downloading.
        But if steam DRM will it keep working or if any change in there DRM system changes and the game stop working will they be able to fix it?

        • and if a judge orders it removed?? with some poorly worded thing that = must be fully purged?

          The removal means no new sales. Anyone who had previously purchased it can probably still download it and play it.

  • De-lurked to express support for designers of some of my favorite games. Hopefully Ghosts of the Precursors will be as good as many of their others.
  • by dohzer ( 867770 )

    GOG is like a distribution program or something by the way.

  • Origins is a game that has NONE of the aliens from SC1 and SC2. It is just Star Control in name only. Why even bother to call it that? And if Stardock thinks they own SC1 and SC2, why didn't they incorporate all those aliens and try to address the lingering questions from SC2? As it is, Origins could be considered even worse than SC3.
  • The cases on IP have been ongoing for quite a while and are still being battled in the courts. Why is it then that Steam and GOG responded to the DMCA takedown requests if the ownership of the IP itself is in question?

    Earlier this year the DMCA was used to block promotional material. Stardock issued a counter notice but the promotional material was not put back up. This is a clear indication that Steam and GOG are arbitrarily deciding who owns IP despite an ongoing court case about it.

    Would this open Steam

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