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Games

The Washington Post Decries 'Toxicity' in Videogames (siliconvalley.com) 252

Posted by EditorDavid from the calling-out-Call-of-Duty dept.
This week the Washington Post shared the story of 20-year-old Sam Haberern, who was playing Call of Duty on his Xbox when the other players "started asking him whether he had ever testified in court or murdered anyone." "They said they were from Maryland and that they were going to come and kill me," he said. By then it was 3 a.m., and Haberern decided to quit. One of the gamers in the party then sent him a message via Xbox Live. It contained his home address. Next his house phone rang, then his mother's cellphone. A message appeared on his TV screen from one of the party members -- it was asking why he didn't answer... Haberern contacted Microsoft, which makes Xbox, via its website and reported what happened. Unsatisfied with that process, he then typed a Reddit post, which would go viral, asking what recourse was available to him. The varied and ultimately unsatisfying answers centered on a common theme: There was no good solution.

Toxic behavior in competitive activities is not a new development, nor is it exclusive to video gaming, as social media users can attest. But its persistence amid a rapidly rising medium -- both in terms of users and revenue -- spotlights the question of why undesirable or, in some cases, criminal interactions have been so difficult for the video-game industry or law enforcement to eliminate. Now, with technological advances in online multiplayer games and video gaming's increased prevalence worldwide, a growing percentage of the population is becoming unwittingly exposed to a slew of abusive acts that are only becoming more visible. While game publishers, console makers, online voice-chat applications and even the FBI are aware of these issues and working to confront them, complications stemming from modern technology and gaming practices, freedom of speech concerns, and a lack of chargeable offenses on the legal side make toxic elements a challenge to extinguish.... Ambiguities within the U.S. legal system have played a role in constraining the efforts of law enforcement during the era of online gaming.
After the death threats, Haberern didn't contact the police, but questioned whether Microsoft was creating a safe environment for kids.

The next day, he was back to playing videogames. "But I definitely don't accept invites from people."
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The Washington Post Decries 'Toxicity' in Videogames More

The Washington Post Decries 'Toxicity' in Videogames

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  • fucking idiots (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @05:40PM (#58209740) Journal

    So a guy suffers harassment, doxxing, stalking and death threats but doesn't call the police.

    The Washington Post meanwhile disregard entirely the illegality of all of those things, claim the law is lacking in this instance and blames video games?

    I'm not sure who the biggest fucking idiots in this situation are. The guy that didn't call the police, the Washington Post or the antisocial people that would be antisocial malicious bullies in any environment.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )
      Would the police be willing to do anything about it? Most cops aren't the most tech-savvy people -- they'd probably take a report and round-file the thing, not knowing how to proceed. Or "kids will be kids, just ignore it."

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Seriously, "someone threatened you in CALL OF DUTY, eh?" - Cop eyes rolling audibly... The bigger question, why is this kid's information so accessible to base-level trolls on Call of fucking Duty? DID he shoot someone?

        Call of Duty is an opsec hole big time, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't just offer up your address or phone number. They either targeted this guy (like his frienemy down the street doing it) or he's completely doxxed-naked somewhere.

        Hell, teachable moment either way. Let's find this kid

      • Re:fucking idiots (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @06:08PM (#58209858)

        Would the police be willing to do anything about it?

        Most likely the perp is outside their jurisdiction, in another state, or even in another country. Even if they were located, and tracked to an IP, it would be difficult to build a case that it was a particular individual.

        Our law enforcement system is not designed to deal with these situations.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The accounts will have billing details.

        • Re:fucking idiots (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Kaenneth ( 82978 ) on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:26AM (#58211186) Journal

          Might prevent his death to have the police aware of the situation before a swatting.

        • I can confirm. I had my identity stolen. I credit card I didn't order showed up at my doorstep (a lucky break because the thieves paid for rush delivery BEFORE changing the address and the rush delivery processed first). When I contacted the police, I was told that it wasn't going to be a high priority for them because they'd probably do a lot of investigation only to discover that the thieves were in another precinct (if not another state). The fact that some other police department would make the actual a

      • Just threats, the police probably wouldn't do anything - actual harassing phone calls or emails they might, because now they have something to trace.

        I do wonder what the heck he was doing in CoD that irked people so much they went to that kind of trouble...

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Kohath ( 38547 )

        Because authorities are mostly useless and only exist to collect paychecks.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's also dumb because every game platform out there has a robust set of tools for dealing with "bad" behavior. You can mute people, you can block them entirely, you can report them to moderators.

      If you're being "stalked" it's because you're not using the tools provided to prevent people from doing it. It's not hard to do.

      The reason video game companies "can't do anything about it" is because they already have, and people just like to whine anyway.

    • So a guy suffers harassment, doxxing, stalking and death threats but doesn't call the police.

      What good would that do?

      At best they'd ignore it, at worst they'd go round and shoot him.
      " 'spatcher said death threats at this address, ain't that so, Cletus?"
      "Yup, and he was clearly reaching for something, or thinking about it anyway."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        What good would that do?

        Maybe you should ask the police first before making an assumption? What could it harm by telling them?

        • Protip: read the *whole* post before writing a reply to *any* of it.

          If your finger gets tired, take a rest.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dcw3 ( 649211 )

            Again, you're making baseless assumptions, and offering worthless "Protip"s that are just from some random internet dork who believes that the Po Po is out to get everyone. That's pure immaturity.

    • Re:fucking idiots (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 03, 2019 @08:09PM (#58210318)

      The Washington Post meanwhile disregard entirely the illegality of all of those things, claim the law is lacking in this instance and blames video games?

      You weren't around for Gamergate were you?

      The Media has free licence to demonise video games, video gamers, and game developers. All are a punching bag to be libeled, video-nastied, and lobbied for regulation alongside supporting cast in the political sphere. Whatever your narrative or political orientation, video games can be tarred and feathered to support your cause, with work done with aplomb by writers whose own "professional" articles and tweets would be toxic enough to get them banned from most community forums.

      And let's leave aside the commercial reality of consumer eyeballs and ad dollars(via Twitch etc) roving away from traditional media and to the newer digital industries.

      We are 40 years out from the first moral panic denunciations of arcade games by the media, and nothing had changed in the tone or the accuracy of the media's reporting on this industry. Only the topics. For Pac-Man and Donkey-Kong, it was about "drugs". For GTA it was about "sex". Today it's about "toxicity", not because there is any serious connection between the game and such topics, but because "toxicity" is the contemporary moral panic the media is selling. And video games are the biggest, easiest, and least politically connected of all industries to tar.

      Never mind that this industry has done more to connect the world and advance both technology and entertainment than any other medium over the last 40 years. Never mind that the media itself has become a toxic den of 24 hour propaganda, misinformation, and war-mongering. No, it is the place of the the likes of the Washington Post to decry a whole industry and tens of millions of gamers as "toxic" in the court of public opinion, and journalisms privilege to drown out dissent on all channels to deny all appeal. The industry as always, will just have to ignore them. Plus ca change.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )

      I don't think it's true unless he put his real name on the gamertag or whatever.

      at most if the game was p2p they would have had his ip address.

      it smells like bullshit so badly. it's not that easy to find phone numbers of two random people based on just some online nickname that quickly. at the very frigging least the story needs to show that _anyone_ called them at that time on their cellphones. ..because eh, who even calls anymore?

    • So a guy suffers harassment, doxxing, stalking and death threats but doesn't call the police.

      I'm not gonna call the police. But man, Microsoft sure is doing a bad job of keeping me safe. Oh well, back to video games!

  • Unsubstantiated supposition (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @05:55PM (#58209792)

    Toxic behavior in competitive activities is not a new development, nor is it exclusive to video gaming, as social media users can attest. But its persistence amid a rapidly rising medium -- both in terms of users and revenue -- spotlights the question of why undesirable or, in some cases, criminal interactions have been so difficult for the video-game industry or law enforcement to eliminate.

    I don't see any numerical data in TFA substantiating this. Is "toxicity" in video games more prevalent than elsewhere in life? It seems a simple enough question, and the fact that TFA doesn't answer it suggests the author simply has an axe to grind against video games, and is using the logical fallacy of a single example [wikipedia.org] to promote his point. Usually people end up making this logical fallacy when they begin from a pre-determined conclusion, and work backwards to find supporting data. Rather than the opposite (look at the data first, then arrive at a conclusion.)

    It's unsubstantiated journalism like this which leads to stupid things like parents pulling their kids out of school after a school shooting elsewhere in the country. Statistically, your kids are more likely to be shot outside of school than at school. So you're increasing their odds of being shot by pulling them out of school.

  • bored teenagers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @05:57PM (#58209804)

    Bored teenagers (or close approximates) think this shit is hilarious. Yeah, online gaming is a toxic sludgefest. But (shocker), it's not really any part of "gaming". Hint: it's the "bored teenagers" part. Games are just where they hang out. Note this little detail:

    “It was great,” said Haberern in an interview with The Washington Post. “I was talking [trash], they were talking [trash],” he said, adding that such antics are typical and understood to be part of the culture.

    In other words, they were vigorously insulting each other, and he thought it was hilarious, and hand-waves it away as "part of the culture". Insulting strangers... what fun! Apparently, someone didn't appreciate his view of the "culture", and doxxed the dude (his gamertag was probably displayed on social media), then had some fun of their own. Hey, isn't this "part of the culture too?" "But... but... it happened to meeeeee!"

    I'm not excusing any of this, especially when it's completely uncalled for by the victim, but I'm long past being surprised by any of it. And no, even this idiot doesn't deserve death threats. But now that our personal information is there for the entire world to see, anyone can probably get anyone's personal info from something as innocuous as a gametag.

    I sure wish I had an answer, short of "changing human nature". Something something AI will surely solve this problem... *handwaves*

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mentil ( 1748130 )

      Has a "random stranger gives death threat over internet due to mild transgression" situation actually ever led to a followup murder? In the hours/days it'd take to actually reach the other person, they'd likely calm down and realize their beef is stupid and not worth the trouble. As opposed to Diaper Lady who drove cross-country to kill her lover because he was cheating on her, and IIRC she made no death threat first.
      SWATTING is thus a much larger problem, as proven recently.

      • There have been a handful of cases where a nutjob has tracked someone down IRL and murdered or attempted to murder them. The important thing to remember is that this isn't special or unique to gaming. Its really no different than any other time someone with anger management issues attempts murder due to a perceived slight.

    • Not just teenagers. There are adults who take their PvP way too seriously.

    • So talking shit is equivalent to making a death threat, sending his address to him, and calling his home and mother's cell?

      It should be clear that someone crossed a line here. Anyone who feels they have to stoop to such levels to feel like they came out on top after some trash talk is pathetic imo.
  • It's not the videogames themselves that are "toxic", it's the players.

    People can be assholes in multiplayer Solitaire, too.

    There's a reason multiplayer games include a warning along the lines of "online interactions are not rated by ESRB".

    That's because the interactions among players are not, and cannot, be under the control of the game publisher - and it's ridiculous to expect the game makers to be responsible for the actions of the players.

    I wonder, do these same people blame the cell phone co

    • That's because the interactions among players are not, and cannot, be under the control of the game publisher - and it's ridiculous to expect the game makers to be responsible for the actions of the players.

      Why not? They put the systems in place. They can scan for keywords and kick people out of games. They can use AI for sentiment analysis and kick out anyone whose interaction sentiment reaches a bad enough negative threshold.

      What? You idiots didn't think the crap you're throwing at Facebook, Twitter, et

      • Well there is the scunthorpe problem when dealing with text communications. Some games due try to employ text filtering and it has unintended results as expected. As for filtering voice comms. How do you propose that works without massive processing and bandwidth overhead? Speech recognition isn't all that great even now and adding it to your consoles as a background filter for naughty words is going to degrade the experience to an unacceptable level. That aint happening. And of course we get to the issue

        • Again, why should Facebook and Google need to filter but games get off? Either vendors are responsible for online communications on their platforms or not.

          • I don't think Google should be filtering anything that isn't illegal. Blocking and de-platforming people you disagree with is wrong, and even if it technically doesn't violate the 1st amendment it certainly violates the spirit. Trolls are a fact of life on the internet, it used to be that people learned to grow a thicker skin, ignore them and move on. Now everyone feels like they have a right to be protected from it. I don't know where that notion came from but not only is it silly its impractical. I do dr

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )

      It's not the videogames themselves that are "toxic", it's the players.

      Well...a murder simulator like COD is likely to draw a lot of toxic pricks. I don't think you could argue the game itself is completely neutral in this. I say that as someone who likes to play these multiplayer shooters. When I go to the opera, I don't run into a lot of jackoffs who want to talk shit and dox people. I don't find a lot of this toxic behavior at the handball court. Also, I've never had a telemarketer threaten to kill

      • When I go to the opera, I don't run into a lot of jackoffs who want to talk shit and dox people. I don't find a lot of this toxic behavior at the handball court. Also, I've never had a telemarketer threaten to kill my family.


        Then your doing it all wrong...

        • Then your doing it all wrong...

          Upon further reflection, I think I may have had a telemarketer threaten to kill my family once.

      • I'm not a gamer, so this ecosystem is not in my wheelhouse.

        I am a retired IT guy and can relate to your post.

        You have explained it well.

        Thanks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mentil ( 1748130 )

      Multiplayer Solitaire? Is that a euphemism for something?

      • It's whatever, any basic simple game with multiplayer, even if it doesn't have anything advanced. All you really need for people to be assholes is group chat & a competition / goal / scoreboard.

    • I wonder, do these same people blame the cell phone company when they get a rude phone call or a telemarketer?

      Actually, yes, I do. Most of the phone calls I get these days are spam calls that would be incredibly easy for the phone company to stop but they have zero incentive to actually fix because they make money for each of these spam calls.

  • The videogame industry helped... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by blahplusplus ( 757119 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @05:58PM (#58209812)

    ... to create this mess by getting rid of game ownership and stealing control of software out from under gamers since the internet has made fraud and software theft easy as just keeping the software they've produced at their offices.

    Dedicated servers and the lack of forced matchmaking would do wonders to de-toxify gaming instead of forcing everyone to play together without any admin tools or ability to run dedicated servers like ye good old days in the 90's.

    So I will cry no tears for corporations and their idiot managers for creating this mess.

    • Dedicated servers and the lack of forced matchmaking would do wonders to de-toxify gaming instead of forcing everyone to play together without any admin tools or ability to run dedicated servers like ye good old days in the 90's.

      Excellent point. There was not this toxic behavior when you could choose your server. I never had someone threaten to kill me at a LAN party. OK, now that I think about it, I did get into a fistfight once with someone who once thought my style of Protoss play in StarCraft was "ch

    • You still can, but you're going to be playing a game along the sophistication of "ye good old days" as well. There's a reason those games died out and it wasn't some gaming company 'hiding' their software.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ambvai ( 1106941 )

      Automated systems like this easily breakdown; one game I played had a rather prominent guild leader auto-banned during a key period because people were being paid to group up with him during open-join (no acceptance necessary; anybody in the area is automatically flagged as a group) events and report him.

      The ban only lasted a few days before it was reversed, but it was enough to put them out of the running for a competition.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • the 'Toxicity' of the Washington Post's ' contributions within the Main Stream Media! Oh My!

    Just my 2 cents ;)

  • what about swatting how much flat does MS have? the EULA may save them from an $$$ civil payout the but there may be some criminal stuff.

  • But can you not 'block' people or something on them? Has the US gone all in with freeze peach into 'captive of hearing' territory?

  • You can play lots of videogames that are not internet connected. No single player game has the kind of crap they are describing.

    But anyone looking at chat websites knows that when you connect anonymous people on the internet you get a crap-storm.

    The gaming aspect is not relevant, it is the anonymous, apparently temporary communication afforded by the internet that is the problem.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Counter example: Nintendo's online stuff. Seems very resilient to trolling. No idea how they do it.

    • You can play lots of videogames that are not internet connected. No single player game has the kind of crap they are describing.

      Indeed there are. The last game I played was Rogue. No really, last week I was bored and found it online. I played it about 30 minutes before I was bored again.

      I usually play much newer, but still single-player games.

      I do play one MMORPG, but it's kind of a joke. Only about a dozen people still play down from a total membership (not active all at once) of about 12,000. I'm the highest level, but my rival has better stats. There's no point in me attacking any other active players (not worth my effort) and th

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

        Now I'm curious. What game is that?

        • Okay, but don't expect much. It's just clicking links.

          http://wastelandwar.com/regist... [wastelandwar.com]

          (If you use that link I get 2 fuel!)

          It's a wasteland for sure. No https, but no ads either (well, 2 static images with links to "visit our sponsors").

          If you do happen to sign up send me an e-mail in the game (player #7417) and I can hook you up with weapons and armor.

          If you want to mess with them, script your gameplay and see if the admins are paying enough attention to ban you. I think there's only 1 left and I don't thi

    • "You can play lots of videogames that are not internet connected....
      Not much that's been released within the past 10 years. Game publishers are putting out the same FPS or MMO over and over, and selling the user-generated "social experience" as the draw, instead of developing single player content. Artists and programmers are expensive, screaming preteens are not. Of the games that are still single-player, they are getting progressively more dumbed-down and not worth the time. See the Elder Scrolls for a p
  • People can only get what you give them:

    1. Limit what you make available.
    2. ALWAYS use a VPN, if not a multi-hop VPN.
    3. RECOMMENDED use a TOR Bridge or Proxy.
    4. NEVER post addresses, numbers, pictures or personal information online.
    5. Get off social media and delete social media accounts.
    6. Use a good Firewall / IPS IDS solution.
    7. Monitor your logs continuously.

    The XBOX sits inside your network, so if you're not monitoring it, you don't get to complain about what it's making available..

  • The largest ISP's go to great lengths to publish accurate information to geo IP services, like MaxMind. Because of the nature of online gaming, peer to peer, it's relatively easy to capture the IP address of the people in your game and then use a geo IP service to locate them down to the city block.

  • Real name / address published? For what? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @07:30PM (#58210170)
    Is there a single reason why your game console, let alone random people on the Internet, should know your real name and home address?

    I would not share such information with a toy. Heck, even the people with whom I play racket sports in real life don't know more than my first name, and there is no reason why they would need to know more.

    • Too bad I'm out of mod points.

      The online world is Hobbesian, most people are stupid and vicious, so limit your exposure.

      I don't game. I have a life. An adult wanting childish things is degenerate.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I don't game. I have a life. An adult wanting childish things is degenerate.

        Same way I feel about alcohol, watching sports, playing golf, watching Netflix, and vacations.

        If you are so childish and pleasure-driven that you managed to make a life which you need an escape from, you deserve to have no respite from it until you grow up.

      • So, since you're not only commenting on a useless except for entertainment site and additionally commenting about online gaming - I'm to assume you're a degenerate?

  • ...while TK'ing everyone and making Hitler jokes

  • Another WaPo hoax (Score:5, Insightful)

    by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Sunday March 03, 2019 @08:33PM (#58210388)

    No police report, no proof, flimsy backstory, it's another Smollett story. There is no way to get an IP and fully doxxed in a matter of minutes from playing Xbox. All traffic travels through the server, P2P traffic is minimal if at all existent so most likely you have to hack Microsoft servers; then you have to hack the ISP, cross reference the address with various (hacking into) cell phone providers databases before making an untraceable phone call all in under ~10 minutes for some lulz? And no adult thinks this is illegal and highly concerning.

    WaPo is getting played by their own side like a narrative fiddle in a desperate attempt to get a story out.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by sound+vision ( 884283 )
      I'd say that there should be no way to get personally-identifying information out of Xbox Live. I can't say that there isn't. MS certainly does have personally-identifiable information tied to each account, so it's within the realm of possibility.

      I'm not sure where the association with Smollett comes from, I'm picking up there's some kind of unstated inference, but even what was actually got typed is inaccurate, as there was a police report filed in that situation. Following that police report, and furth

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I'd say that there should be no way to get personally-identifying information out of Xbox Live. I can't say that there isn't.

        Assuming truth to the contrary of reason using the god of the gaps. Off to a grand start.

        I'm not sure where the association with Smollett comes from...That whole process was complete before I ever heard the name "Smollett", and I read the news daily.

        Great! Proud of ignorance. Unable to research on your own. Unable to see the difference between professional agitation and fact publishing.

        But yeah, this is definitely part of the liberal media's War Against Gamers, which I guess is like the "War Against Christmas"

        Correlating an event which one can witness first-hand with a politically charged falsehood. Could you be any more transparent?
        One bad person did a series of bad actions, therefore a hitpiece in toxicity in video games. No personal responsibility, nothing more than a single anecdote,

  • Gamer Demonization (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gregg M ( 2076 ) on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:22AM (#58211792) Homepage

    Where is the Reddit post?

  • it's the online effect, there will always be some rotten apples in the bunch.
    there have been many small, great indie games that had to stop their online part because of abuse by a small part of gamers.

    if you want to avoid that, play single player games.
    but then people think they are boring, like rdr2.

  • From Xbox -

    Turn on the Share my real name option to select which friends you want to see your real name:
    Press the Xbox button to open the guide.
    Select System > Settings > Account > Privacy & online safety.
    Select Xbox Live privacy > View details & customize.
    Select Profile, and then scroll right to You can share your real name.

    Idiot shared his real name on Xbox........

  • ... it doesn't matter much.

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