Microsoft Will Launch Disc-Less, 'All Digital' Xbox One S Next Month, Report Says (cnet.com) 152
Microsoft's next iteration of the Xbox One may not have a disc at all, and it might be coming sooner than you think. From a report: That's at least according to rumors from Windows Central, which says a disc-less Xbox One S "All-Digital Edition" will be offered for preorders in April. The new device, said to be code-named Maverick, will offer a "disc-to-digital" program, letting fans turn in physical game discs and convert them to digital downloads, Windows Central added.
One benefit of this new Xbox, Windows Central said, would be that it could push the price of an Xbox down. The Xbox One S starts at $299 and is typically bundled with a game. A Microsoft spokesman declined to comment. The move could mark a turning point for the video game industry, which has sold video games on discs and cartridges for decades. Some people still prefer to buy physical copies of their games, in part to share them with friends or trade them in at retailers like GameStop.
One benefit of this new Xbox, Windows Central said, would be that it could push the price of an Xbox down. The Xbox One S starts at $299 and is typically bundled with a game. A Microsoft spokesman declined to comment. The move could mark a turning point for the video game industry, which has sold video games on discs and cartridges for decades. Some people still prefer to buy physical copies of their games, in part to share them with friends or trade them in at retailers like GameStop.
Never own anything, rent everything (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck you, Miscreant-o-soft, fuck you sideways with a rusty chainsaw. So glad I don't use ANY of your 'products' anymore.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Never own anything, rent everything (Score:5, Interesting)
You do realize they're not the first to do this... Adobe has been successfully doing the Software-as-rental for Photoshop (and related applications) for years now, and artists everywhere just continue to choke it down.
Now to be fair, most figure 'meh, the company is paying for it!', or rationalize it as a business expense if they're freelance. By contrast, I have no idea what the gaming crowd is going to do with an XBox that's not much more than a coin-op (card-op?) arcade game sitting in their living room.
If I were to guess? Well, let's just say that if Sony is sufficiently smart, they'll avoid this model and subsequently clean up in the console space - at least long enough for MSFT to panic and suddenly ship free DVD/BluRay readers (and include them with all subsequent XBox consoles sold...)
Re:Never own anything, rent everything (Score:5, Interesting)
Granted, I'm as anti-SaaS as the next guy, but in Adobe's case, it works.
Take the photographer's pack. Photoshop and Lightroom for $9/mo. If you were to buy them full retail, Photoshop CS6, the last version you could "buy" was $699. That means that for your $9/mo, it would take you 77 months (nearly 6.5 years) to have paid the full retail price. In the mean time, 4 new versions would have come out, each release costing around $300 to upgrade. Then add Lightroom on top of that.
In this case, it really DOES make sense to just use the subscription. Plus, it's licensed for two computers at a time, and you can pause your subscription when you want if you pay month to month.
It my eyes, Photoshop has always been too expensive, but in this instance, it's better than the hassle of switching to Gimp.
Re: Never own anything, rent everything (Score:1)
The $699 bundle included the other Adobe apps. Illustrator, Adobe Pro, etc. So your 77 month ROI is actually closer to 13-14.
Re: (Score:3)
As per their website:
US$2,599 for CS6 Master Collection
US$1,899 for CS6 Production Premium
US$1,899 for CS6 Design & Web Premium
US$1,299 for CS6 Design Standard
Of course, you can no longer buy those, but it was $699 for only photoshop, which is the number I used in my original post.
Re: (Score:2)
I dunno if they still do, but Adobe used to give away Photoshop CS2 as freeware (I have it installed but never used it). The installation key, and a license which seems to allow you to use it for whatever. Presumably you could download it from anywhere and the license would still make it legal.
Re: (Score:2)
https://helpx.adobe.com/creati... [adobe.com]
Not exactly freeware.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I saw when that happened, and I do have a copy, however, the CS2 release was technically only for people who were already licensed for CS2 and didn't want to upgrade to the next version which included online key activation. It wasn't intended to be a freeware release for anyone except those who already held a valid license.
Re: (Score:2)
The ONE time I didn't run an EULA past my lawyer...
Re: (Score:2)
Take the photographer's pack. Photoshop and Lightroom for $9/mo. If you were to buy them full retail, Photoshop CS6, the last version you could "buy" was $699
But if you only want Lightroom then you're now having to pay £9.98/month and either get 1TB of cloud storage (like I'm going to fucking trust Adobe with that) or Photoshop thrown in. I don't want either, I just want Lightroom.
So instead of a £70 upgrade every 18-24 months I'm now expected to pay £120/year.
in Adobe's case, it works
Of course it fucking works, they get higher revenue and I get fucked over. Which is why I haven't signed up to their shitty service and instead use Lightroom 6.
By the ti
Re: (Score:2)
All that tells me is that the software is grossly overpriced, and that the subscription model is the "proper" price. It's just a variation of the JCPenny model of selling something at 4x its real cost and having perpetual 75% off sales.
I just use software that suits my needs. A copy of Photoshop several years old does everything I need, and I don't have to worry about Adobe pulling the rug out from under my feet, either by yanking access or "upgrading" in a way that breaks my workflow... or livelihood.
Fuc
Re: (Score:2)
Still, even at 40 months, the average release time for a new adobe product is somewhere around 18 months so the upgrade cost needs to be considered as well. The CC suite does these upgrades automatically, so they need to be factored in.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Some people refer to Steam's model as rental to hammer home the idea that you don't really own what you're buying so long as there's a gatekeeper controlling access to what you paid for.
Then inevitably Steam's fans will defend it by saying that you don't own the game you buy physically on consoles with the argument 1) It's just a license anyway, or 2) You need the Day 1 patch to make it playable.
Both sides feel like arguing over how best to get screwed.
Re: (Score:2)
The thing with Steam is that I can download all 800 games I own, strip any Steam DRM from them and keep them forever.
If Steam look like they're going to go out of business, I'm buying a new NAS.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you really own your Steam games though? In 30 years will you be able to play them?
My understanding is that it needs to periodically verify your account and you can't easily make backups of the games to reinstall later without the client and your online account.
What happens if your account is banned? Microsoft is a bit heavy handed with the ban-hammer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, if they go out of business won't they try to sell their assets and the administrator will be upset if they devalue them by removing all the DRM? And can they even remove DRM, won't they need permission from the game's developers before releasing an unprotected version?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even if the liquidators are okay, what about the developers? Would they be okay with their AAA title that was released a month ago being re-released DRM free because Steam went out of business?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's no stipulation that a game on Steam has to use Valve's DRM scheme, it's up to the dev. EA was probably more upset with Valve's 30% take for operating the storefront.
Re: (Score:2)
You do realize they're not the first to do this... Adobe has been successfully doing the Software-as-rental for Photoshop (and related applications) for years now, and artists everywhere just continue to choke it down.
Now to be fair, most figure 'meh, the company is paying for it!', or rationalize it as a business expense if they're freelance. By contrast, I have no idea what the gaming crowd is going to do with an XBox that's not much more than a coin-op (card-op?) arcade game sitting in their living room.
You realise that Microsoft was doing it before Adobe... Years before.
Most people have never seen a Microsoft Enterprise Agreement... You actually have to pay them yearly per license. Its just that enforcement of payment was previously lawyer based, now they have technical means.
This is just one of the many reasons I remain an ardent PC gamer. My games, on my hard drive, not having to ask permission to run them.
Re: (Score:2)
After all these decades there's still no viable FOSS business model that has produced any decent gaming systems or games.
You might see two kinds of replies:
Re: (Score:2)
the trade in values for disc games are so bad it's not worth buying them. just buy the digital during the periodic sales
Re: Never own anything, rent everything (Score:1)
Buying a game on disc - its yours forever until the disc breaks or its stolen or you lose it
Buying a game - its yours until its stolen, you lose it or the platform shuts down. Considering this is microsoft which has a long list of shut down platforms (theres even a recent one this week of yet another platform theyre shutting down) would you trust them to keep a platform alive longer than a lifetime of a physical disc?
Ill take the physical disc even if the trade in price is low thank you very much.
Re: (Score:1)
You'll still get more for the physical disk than a digital download you no longer want.
Re: (Score:2)
Trading in is for those who preorder a game that turns out to be a dud, or beat it in a weekend (hey, wonder why so many 100-hour games are released nowadays?) Of course you can't trade in the season pass.
Re: (Score:3)
effectively ends the secondary market; ie gamestop / disk-go-round etc. This has been the wet dream of the publishers for a decade or more. Microsoft is finally making it happen for them.
Sure sites like GOG will still sell discounted older properties but only after obtaining first party licensing ensure a continued revenue stream on old titles.
Re:Never own anything, rent everything (Score:4, Interesting)
The New Microsoft Feudalism: You own NOTHING, they own EVERYTHING, and you RENT IT from them. Don't like it? Starve, peasant.
Nothing about this is new. You can buy a disc, but the game does not come on the disc - the entire game is downloaded anyway, except maybe a few art assets that weren't patched. Almost every modern game is always-online, so what good would the disc do you anyhow.
You are longing for a time that has already passed you by, several years ago.
I don't mind that with Steam (Score:2)
Console games OTOH are way more expensive. They don't go on the crazy sales Steam games do.
Most games launch in an unusable state anyway. You'll need the patches or the game sucks. That's because that way they can ship the disk in beta form and have it serve it's purpose to reduce load on their servers while letting them get the game ou
So, it's Xbox version of Steam... (Score:2)
...designed for your living room. PC gamers have been buying/playing digitally distributed games this way for years through Steam. Set the pitchforks down. It's no big deal, in fact, it's preferred. Eventually you appreciate the lack of game boxes and disk clutter collecting dust in your home. Game pricing will be more dynamic and overall cheaper (like they are on Steam) because studios don't have to pay physical packaging and shipping, and they bypass brick-and-mortar stores whose real interest is selling
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't say it is preferred. I love that I have a collect of games from the mid 90s to maybe 2014 and I have game discs. It is nice to just pull the disc out and install it on the system. At this point, I have a folder of patches for different games too, though generally I only need these if I have to reinstall my system which is quite rare.
I suppose I could rip all those discs to my computer and then move them over to my backup/file server just encase I need them but I don't want to take the time.
Trusti
Re: (Score:2)
No. Steam doesn't require you to pay a monthly subscription to stay connected. Steam doesn't decide to shut down its entire fucking service screwing over anybody that bought from them (such as, e.g. Games For Windows Live did). Steam doesn't mandate DRM. Steam doesn't censor.
So no, unless you can connect to the generic internet through the Xbox, go to the Steam website, install the Steam client and buy and play games from Steam, then it'll be an Xbox version of Steam.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
To be fair I still own a Microsoft Sidewinder USB. Other than that my house is clean from any of their stuffs. =)
Re: (Score:2)
Some Steam games have DRM. Some don't.
Most do, or most don't?
Re: (Score:1)
If you're going to define "having an account on a website" as DRM, you're going too far. For people in the real world, DRM means copy protection.
Re: (Score:3)
DRM is not the same as copy protection or security. Digital Rights Management means managing who, where, when, and how you can get the digital rights. Copy protection is the most minor and trivial things it does, and by all evidence not even treated very importantly. Many DRM games are pirated on the first day or even earlier, so copy protection is relatively ineffective.
What's game makers consider most important with DRM is that you, the legal consumer, shall not ever resell your game, lend it, give it a
Re: (Score:2)
Hard to say, there are many thousands of games on Steam. All AAA games have DRM, Steam or not, except for CD Projekt Red games, which are DRM-free, Steam or not.
10 LET M$ = "Microsoft" (Score:2)
M$ is something an edgelord would say.
I'm having trouble understanding your thought process, as M$ is the name of a string variable in line-numbered BASIC. Did you mean "BASIC programmers are edgelords"? Or "People who use a term for Microsoft that calls to mind its roots as a publisher of BASIC interpreters are edgelords"?
Probably pushing about 350 pounds with a closet full of fedoras.
I'm not sure what being able to bench press 350 lb and in charge of a rack or two of servers running RPM-based GNU/Linux [getfedora.org] has to do with anything.
Heard in a Microsoft meeting room (Score:2)
"No one is buying our console. What can we do?"
"Let's produce a model that lacks some functions."
"Genius!"
Re: (Score:1)
Probably just because they don't want to pay Sony the licensing fee for Blu-Ray. Bet the memory of HD-DVD still stings.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, though... when was the last time you bought a game on a physical disk? Services like Steam has pretty much made that obsolete. Even watching Blu Ray discs is becoming something that only "old people" do now.
This this makes the new XBox $50 cheaper, more power to them. You're basically required to have always on Internet access for most games anyway, so it's not like you're losing any much functionality here.
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, though... when was the last time you bought a game on a physical disk? Services like Steam has pretty much made that obsolete. Even watching Blu Ray discs is becoming something that only "old people" do now.
This this makes the new XBox $50 cheaper, more power to them. You're basically required to have always on Internet access for most games anyway, so it's not like you're losing any much functionality here.
When was the last time you bought a game on a physical disk? - Only every single time I want a game cheap.
watching Blu Ray discs is becoming something that only "old people" do now - Good luck streaming 4K UHD HDR at anything even remotely close to an acceptable framerate.
Re: (Score:2)
Young people don't care about 4K UHD HDR. They watch movies on their 5 inch phone screen that has a big crack running across it from when they dropped it. They'll do this while sitting in a room with a 50" TV.
TV seniority (Score:2)
Young people [...] watch movies on their 5 inch phone screen that has a big crack running across it from when they dropped it. They'll do this while sitting in a room with a 50" TV.
I'd bet it's because someone older is using the 50" TV at the time, and this older person has priority to select the programming on the 50" TV on account of being older.
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, though... when was the last time you bought a game on a physical disk? Services like Steam has pretty much made that obsolete.
^^ Bingo. Xbox digital distribution is 17 years behind Steam.
The real question is...Why didn't Microsoft/Xbox or someone else do this a long time ago?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, though... when was the last time you bought a game on a physical disk?
Bought a game on disc? I admit it's been probably a couple years since I last bought a PlayStation 2 game at a thrift shop. Bought a game on cartridge? Just last year (2018) I bought a used loose copy of Bubble Ghost, and I have a new CIB copy of Family Picross preordered.
Will become a brick in the future (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
There's clearly still a need for physical media, as not everyone can download 50GB in a reasonable amount of time
Hey Anonymous Coward - When you watch a movie on Netflix they don't download the whole movie to you before it starts.
I assume something similar would happen here. They'd download content and layers if and when they're needed, not all at the beginning.
Months to DL a game on capped Internet (Score:3)
They'd download content and layers if and when they're needed, not all at the beginning.
In that case, for gamers who happen to live outside the service footprint of fiber, cable, and DSL, it could take months to play through a game while staying under the monthly cap that satellite and cellular ISPs impose on their subscribers.
Re: (Score:2)
Nah, it's the reverse. You by the game on disc, then it downloads the 50 GB anyway before you can play, since games are nothing but patches. But you still can't play without the disc.
Provided such a console is still made (Score:2)
Don't buy that console, buy the slightly more expensive version that still has the disc.
This works only if the manufacturer continues to manufacture "the slightly more expensive version that still has the disc." When Microsoft's Xbox division first floated always-online DRM in the Xbox One prior to release, the head of Xbox suggested with a straight face that users stuck behind capped or no Internet can stick with the Xbox 360. (Source: "Xbox chief: we have a product for people who can't get online, it's called Xbox 360" by Daniel Cooper [engadget.com])
Re: (Score:1)
Honestly this seems like quite a substantial wait, even with a very fast connection you'll be waiting over an hour, but people will put up with it, it seems.
Nintendo Switch Game Card (Score:2)
So why are not ROM SD-cards, or forcibly write-protected regular SD-cards a thing?
Are Nintendo Switch Game Cards close enough?
Next iteration won't even need that (Score:2)
With "streaming games" they can keep the games at Microsoft and not worry about copies. Push down manufacturing even further, just give them an ARM chip that connects to a remote gaming sessions.
and cut off people with low caps / bad pings? (Score:2)
and cut off people with low caps / bad pings?
At least with an download system you can download at uncapped times.
100 hours of 4K can get to 1TB. With the 5G push att's 15GB cap at $499 router + $70/mo and then what $10-$15GB.
Re: (Score:2)
Does cellular even have "uncapped times", or is that something only satellite ISPs do?
Re: (Score:2)
Push down manufacturing even further, just give them an ARM chip that connects to a remote gaming sessions.
Exactly.
Fully virtualized consoles in the cloud. No need to ever buy another console.
unreturned xbox fee $1000 (Score:2)
unreturned xbox fee $1000
Memory issues? (Score:2)
No internal hard drive is stupid (Score:2)
I won't be buying anything that can only "stream" a game. That is stupid and complete nonsense. The game needs to be extremely fast and responsive, so it needs to be stored locally. Unless they plan on putting in a TB of RAM and never losing power, lol.
Blu-ray player (Score:2)
Considering I use my PS4 and PS3 systems as Blu-ray players, I'm very likely to not buy a console they won't accept discs in the future.
Could this spell the end for Xbox, I wonder?
Maybe, if Sony Doesn't Pull The Same Stupid Stunt (Score:2)
For the PS4, they still talked about it as a media console, but then forgot about that with the PS Pro. Seriously, where was the 4k blu-ray drive?
I wouldn't put it past Sony to remove the drive in the next console. I also think it would be silly for them to do, but I don't ascribe a lot of intelligence to Sony management, especially with putting Jim Ryan in charge of Playstation. This is the guy the questioned the need for backwards compatibility.
Re: (Score:2)
Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger FTW.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm confused. (Score:5, Insightful)
Did the previous XBox include a phonograph, cassette or 8-track device?
Otherwise, wasn't it already "all-digital" with the CD/DVD/Blu-ray (whatever) device?
[ Yes, I know I'm being pedantic, but I seriously hate marketing people. ]
Re: (Score:2)
Did the previous XBox include a phonograph, cassette or 8-track device? Otherwise, wasn't it already "all-digital" with the CD/DVD/Blu-ray (whatever) device?
The world moved on from analog vs digital many years ago, it's now digital vs physical delivery and this one is "all-digital". Besides to invoke counter-pedantry the games on my C64 cassettes were also digital, there's just no such thing as analog software. How would that even work with a digital computer?
Re: (Score:2)
The world moved on from analog vs digital many years ago, it's now digital vs physical delivery and this one is "all-digital".
Ya, I actually get that, though it still annoys me. Just like using "All New" to describe *one* episode of a TV show -- for example, "Watch an All New episode of The Good Place tonight at 9 pm." (grrr)
Re: (Score:2)
Well MS has been exceptionally terrible at naming things. The Xbox is the best example.
And that’s not including the models of each with their own nonsensical naming: “Core”, “S”, “Elite”, “Arcade”, “X” On the other hand Sony names their sequentially and each model is descriptive: “slim”, “super slim”, “pro”
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nothing new... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why even stop there (Score:2)
A half-way house XBox sounds like a waste of time tbh - it prevents people buying the cheaper physical disks and the size of most downloads means it would rapidly fill up even if it packed a large hdd.
Call it (Score:1)
SONY did it First (Score:2)
With the PSP GO.
It was a PSP console that couldn't read PSP discs and could only get its games online.
See how successful it was.
Oh, and btw, Microsoft already cut original Xbox consoles from Xbox Live a long time ago, so there is a precedent for being shafted that way by this particular company.
Re: (Score:2)
I did ctrl f to see if anyone else mentioned this. I think at this point it could be done. Back when the PSP Go came out people relied a lot more on brick and mortar stores. Those stores did not like being taken out of the loop and did as little to support or get the PSP Go out. At this point B&Ms seem to have realized they can't ignore and fight digital.... so they've at least embraced selling cards and codes.
I think at this point it has a lot better chance of working.... Though it might also be
Nearly time for new models (Score:2)