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The Almighty Buck Businesses Games Entertainment Technology

'Don't Unionize, Buy Video Games,' Delta Airlines Employees Are Told (bbc.com) 227

Posted by BeauHD from the union-dues dept.
dryriver shares a report from the BBC: Delta Airlines is facing significant criticism after posters discouraging its staff from joining a union were widely shared online. "Union dues cost around $700 a year," one of the posters states. "A new video game system with the latest hits sounds like fun. Put your money towards that instead of paying dues to the union," it continued. The posters point to a website featuring Delta branding which encourages workers not to unionize. The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), which claims to represent more than 110,000 airline employees in the United States, is attempting to organize union representation for 44,000 Delta employees.

"Delta Airlines' all-out assault on their employees' legally-protected right to unionize with the Machinists Union is confirmation that our campaign to bring the benefits of IAM-representation is succeeding," it said in a statement. "The day when Delta ramp workers and flight attendants will finally be able to bargain for the compensation, benefits and work rules they deserve is coming quickly, and that has Delta terrified."
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'Don't Unionize, Buy Video Games,' Delta Airlines Employees Are Told More

'Don't Unionize, Buy Video Games,' Delta Airlines Employees Are Told

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  • Missing Link Found! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Antiocheian ( 859870 ) on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:18PM (#58572342) Journal
    That's why the EU Pirates are inclined to the political left: they pirate their games AND pay their union dues.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Remember kids, here in Europe the left is right and the right is left while in the US the right is left and the left is right. Lets just not think of the political complexity of Australia where the up is down and the down is up as well. And in the Soviet Russia, everything was the opposite of all these and yet fully negotiable over a glass of Vodka.

  • $700/year (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:20PM (#58572350)

    I wonder how much of employees' future compensation and general improvement in working conditions would be attributable to unionizing. If the union does its job, it's going to be more than $700/person/year.

    IF the union does its job.

    • Do you believe that the company takes into account your consideration when suggesting gaming as an alternative to unions ?

      • Re:$700/year (Score:5, Interesting)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:55PM (#58572432) Homepage

        Well, it's just the way Delta Airlines fell about their employees. The executives, playing computer games on their PCs with spreadsheets, you know fire 10,000 employees, you get a bonus this month of $10 each, that's $100,000, shame about next quarter when the companies losses $10,000,000 labour shortages and trying to hire people back but no losses, so better good bonuses every second quarter than none at all.

        So the executives thinking, just play computer games, like they do with their workers lives, just a game suckers and they play with you and your life. Yeah this looks horrible, seriously horrible.

      • You bet your a$$ they do. That's why they suggested gaming.

        If base wages rise, that's money out of their pocket (actually, their and their customers' pockets*).

        If number of staff is negotiated upwards, that's money out of their pockets. If length of shift or operational tempo are negotiated down, that's money out of their pockets. If quality or quantity of operational equipment or safety equipment is negotiated up, that's money out of their pockets. They absolutely thought about these things. They thou

      • > Do you believe that the company takes into account your consideration when suggesting gaming as an alternative to unions

        Of course they're taking that into consideration. That's why they are so dead set on poisoning the idea of unions in workers' heads. Can't have the plebes get ideas about being paid well or there'd be fewer yachts to go around in CEO land.

    • Aside from earning more than non-union workers, unions typically have more vacation time, better health insurance & retirement, etc. They also reduce stress by making the company show cause before firing you, instead of a supervisor pulling some reason out of his ass.

    • I wonder about that too. A union could certainly help with working conditions, but I wouldn't be so sure about compensation. Airlines have extremely thin profit margins as it is, it's hard to believe that pay could increase by all that much.

      Maybe the pay could be more evenly distributed though, I recall hearing something about seniority having a ridiculous amount of weight at airlines.

  • ...whenever they possibly can.

    When the abolished mandatory union dues in Wisconsin, workers fled unions in droves [maciverinstitute.com].

    Unions are great...for the unions themselves and bad workers. Good workers and the industries they're in? Not so much [battleswarmblog.com].

    • workers fled unions in droves.

      You mean workers didn't want to pay for increased compensation and benefits for other workers who weren't paying the dues. That's the point of union-busting laws like in Wisconsin...to bust the union.

  • Union members make enough for video games (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:35PM (#58572382)

    Most Union workers make quite a bit more than non-members, have better benefits, get bigger raises and raises more often.
    It's well worth the dues you pay. In most industries we're talking 25%-40% or more, not counting pensions and other benefits.
    Delta needs to put down the pipe.

    • If they put down the pipe, their threat to break you kneecaps isn't nearly as impactful.
    • Not to mention, protection from getting fired without a good reason in so called "At-will employment" States
  • Try a thought experiment; what if unionizing was a bad idea, for everyone? Would saying so make you prima facie guilty of, er, something?

    • You know using fancy words (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday May 11, 2019 @12:00AM (#58572598)
      doesn't make your arguments better, right, just more confusing.

      Unions have been proven time and again to work. Ask any economist who isn't in the tank for a corporate backed think tank and they'll tell you that lack of collective bargaining (or some reason economists are loath to use the "U" word) is a major factor in why wages are down 20% in the last few decades.

      And if we must do a thought experiment, try this: ask yourself, do you have enough bargaining power as a single employee to go up against a multi-national corporation with 2/3rds of your government in their pocket? If you answered "yes" and you aren't either an Einstein grade math whiz or born to whatever your country's version of royalty is then you are what we call a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire [duckduckgo.com].

      • doesn't make your arguments better, right, just more confusing.

        And snark doesn't make yours any better, lol

      • Unions have been proven time and again to work.

        If by "work" you mean "destroy for decades", then sure [duckduckgo.com].

        Unions clamped onto the auto industry like a tick, but in the post war bounty period there was enough to go around for awhile. When that ended, they left the host a shadow of its former self.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Uberbah ( 647458 )

          If by "destroy Detroit" you mean "politicians passed NAFTA over the angry objections from unions"? You aren't the brightest bootlicker in the tool shed.

  • The company has the right to do this, and the employees have the right to be idiots. The worst part of it all is that probably only 1-2% of the Delta workers are not entertained by it, and most of them are going to be satisfied living life in a video game.

  • and save it in a retirement fund, or maybe even buy some food.

    • who saw their pensions that they paid into for decades lost when the company folded, sold the name and machinery to another company, who then reopened without having to pay those bills. I guess there's 401ks, whose own creator says weren't meant to be the main source of retirement funds and which run the risk of going pop if the stock market happens to be doing bad when it's time to retire. Good thing the economy hasn't crashed like clockwork every 10 years due to unregulated speculation for the last 40 yea

  • Propaganda (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jargonburn ( 1950578 ) on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:24PM (#58572500)

    "Delta Airlines' all-out assault on their employees' legally-protected right to unionize..."

    Doesn't sound like an assault on their rights...rather an attempt to sway the opinions of the workers. The quoted slogan isn't even slinging any mud!
    Unions are probably the lesser of two evils; in this case, and perhaps in general...but as the size and resources of a given union increases, it becomes vulnerable to corruption same as corporations and governments.
    IMHO.

    • Re:Propaganda (Score:4, Insightful)

      by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:44PM (#58572552)

      >"Doesn't sound like an assault on their rights...rather an attempt to sway the opinions of the workers."

      I was going to post the same thing. Suggesting they buy video games is not an "assault" on anyone's "rights". The company has the right to discourage unionization by saying how expensive it is to join, how you risk strikes, how strikes could lead to your dismissal, how if pay gets too high it could cause the company to fold. As long as they are not threatening employees with retribution of any type, then it is fair game.

    • this is one very minor thing they're doing to attack Unions that happened to make the news. They and all the mega corps have been chipping away at Unions non stop since the civil rights movement fractured middle class America.
      • it's Friday and I'm tired so I don't think I was, an all out assault means more than one attack vector. This is one. There are others. Lots of others. "Right to Work" laws, closing sites that try to Unionize, threatening offshoring and automation, using non-Union contract workers and taking advantage of economic downturns to lower wages and pit employees against each other all come to mind immediately. You could find plenty more with some time on google and YouTube. It's actually really depressing...
        • Right To Work laws are indeed an attack on Unions, because in the specific case of forced Unionization, it needs to be attacked.

          If Unions are for workers rights, they arent showing it when fighting against Right To Work.

          I'm in a Union and the only way out is to quit. This Union was formed recently (less than 10 years) and its already a shit show of both corruption and stupidity. The company had a 5%/year pay raise policy (subject to a cap) with the ability to negotiate even more and since the Union, le

          • >"If Unions are for workers rights, they arent showing it when fighting against Right To Work."

            +1

            Unions are a fine and important part of empowering Labor. However, allowing them to FORCE employees to participate is just as "un-free" a market as slave labor by employers.

            "Right to work" is just as important as "Right to Unionize".

          • I live in Las Vegas. I'm an electrician. The owners of my company are 3 ex union guys. They know a lot of the union higher ups, They get "offered" to join the company a few times a year. They go around to the employees that have been around for a few years and ask us our opinion. We normally all have a laugh and then get back to work. The electrical union out here(Local 357) is a joke. I tried to join when I was 19, after being in the trade for 3-4 years already. Had a long time union member willing to spon

          • Right To Work laws are indeed an attack on Unions, because in the specific case of forced Unionization, it needs to be attacked.

            If capitalism has an absolute right to organize capital, workers too must have an absolute right to organize their labor. That includes forcing companies to only hire union workers. Especially when the capitalists are free to organize their capital across international borders, which laborers largely can't do.

            The company had a 5%/year pay raise policy (subject to a cap) with the a

  • Insulting your employees intelligence (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Saturday May 11, 2019 @12:09AM (#58572636) Journal
    Remember when McDonalds addressed the issue of their employees not making a livable wage by offering them 'counseling' on their finances, with 'helpful tips' like saving money by eating McDonalds food? This is right up there with that so far as being unhelpful and also insulting the intelligence of their workers. "Oh look, a shiny new video game, wouldn't you want that more than some nasty ol' Union? Boooring!" That's what this sounds like. Whoever thought this up at Delta should be ashamed of themselves -- and perhaps should be fired. If you don't value your employees and treat them like you value them, then you can expect them to not respect and value you.

  • "Claims to represent" tells reader what to think (Score:3, Informative)

    by fieldstone ( 985598 ) on Saturday May 11, 2019 @12:28AM (#58572686)

    Hi everyone. Just your friendly neighborhood psychology student and game writer here to point out that saying the union "claims to represent" a certain number of people implies that number might not be accurate, which sure looks a whole lot like pro-capitalist / anti-union bias from where I'm sitting. (Also took a journalism class and was on the school paper in high school, and this type of thing is a big no-no, right up there with scare quotes.)

    Is there some reason we should doubt the veracity of the union's statement? Last I checked, unions are happy to publish lists of every company or department that affiliates with them, because doing so shows how popular and widespread the union is... which can only be good for getting more members. Kinda obvious when you think about it. I usually trust the BBC to at least try to be impartial when it comes to world news (which US news is, in Britain), but it seems that may be changing, at least where anything that resembles (gasp!) socialism is concerned.

    Nice try, capitalist pig. Thankfully, critical thinking doesn't cost anything.

    • Is there some reason we should doubt the veracity of the union's statement?

      Is there a reason you would want to misreport the facts?

      A real journalist would not report a # it could not independently verify (via multiple sources) as a fact. You do know how knowledge works, right? If you tell me you are X years old, but I cannot verify it, any factual statements by me about your age would include that its you who saying you are X years old. If I do not include this information, then such lazy (at best) statements are not factual.

      Is there a reason you would want to misreport the

    • It is a journalist's responsibility to effect positive change in society. Not to report facts without bias or favor, that's 20th century thinking.

      Trying to call out the BBC for pro capitalist propaganda? Seriously? They're a left biased publication, like most of the media. Objectivity isn't taught any more as you know well.

    • "Is there some reason we should doubt the veracity of the union's statement?"

      Sure. That number likely included people like me, who opted out of unions as an airline worker (but were forced to pay dues), people who are no longer employed (but aren't completely off the rolls yet), and people who's interests they don't actually represent.

      Airlines in particular are subject to union fuckery - once you're unionized, there is no process to decertify and remove a union - just replace one with another.

      • Enjoy all the benefits won by the union without paying the dues that earned those benefits. And if you don't like your union, you are free to vote to change it. You have no vote in how the airlines are run.

      • "Fair share" contributions aren't union dues, but I agree with you that this part of union contracts is unfair to people who don't join. They can't count you as a member if you have to pay fair share contributions, but they are generally going to be less than the union dues, and they can still claim to be representing everyone in your department. I've seen some of the waste that unions can create, and I've also seen incredibly low worker morale that could have been fixed by having one. Every workplace is di

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      psychology student and game writer ... took a journalism class ... capitalist pig

      Are you actively trying to tick every passive-aggressive teenage wannabe-communist stereotype box? Is Tumblr down for the day?

  • what everyone wants:
    Full and fancy retiree health obligations.
    Nice big defined benefit plans.
    None of that extra low equal to the social security pension plan.

    Want to give that up for a new video game system?
    Go full union now and enjoy retirement.

  • Union dues are more like a wager than a purchase (Score:5, Insightful)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Saturday May 11, 2019 @02:48AM (#58572972) Journal

    Comparing the union dues to a consumer good isn't quite right. If you got the hottest game or phone each year, you'd see no return, but you'd only be out $700/yr.

    The impacts of unionization on your future run the gamut. Best case often happened during the mid 20th century: workers secured higher wages, and kept making them throughout their career. There were probably middlin' outcomes too; but in some cases employers sought other avenues when they didn't like the contracts. In that case, the plant shut down and your total income may have fallen far short of what it could have been under a less generous contract.

    The way I see it, union dues are most favorably compared to the kinds of wagers that *capitalists* make. It's like buying a stock on margin. You're spending money to enforce a labor cartel, on the gamble that the company won't be able to find an alternative. If the cartel remains in force, you win. If it doesn't remain in force, the company could fold, move, etc. and you could actually lose a big chunk of your wealth.

    • which is the cold war. You couldn't outsource your factories because the commies would just seize them. Yeah, that wasn't true, but it was a real fear and it kept jobs here. Also the lack of telecom made it harder to outsource.

      Unions are still the way to go as Germany proves (where 70% of folk belong to one and where standards of living are among the highest). Unions can organize politically and keep the jobs and economy local using laws. American workers treat politics as something dirty they should ne

    • Businesses need to advertise, and advertising costs money. Workers need to organize, and organizing costs money. But like advertising, union dues bring in more than they cost.

      You're spending money to enforce a labor cartel

      No more so than Delta is enforcing a capital cartel. Insert eyeroll emoji.

  • External unions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 11, 2019 @05:39AM (#58573246)
    My wife worked at a place where a union muscled in. The union promised everyone they'd get double digit pay raises, better working conditions etc. A bunch of honeyed bullshit that sufficient people fell for for them to get a foot in the door. After that the union negotiated a tiny pay 2% rise which probably didn't even cover their fees, relations with management had soured to the point that the company cancelled a planned expansion and sold the plant.

    Yay unions. That isn't to say unions are bad per se, but these mega unions are fucking toxic. If Delta staff want to unionize they should create their own. There are enough workers to make it work. Then the union will work for them and them only and they can fund it on that basis.

    • Funny how often anti-union hatorade is based around the union not having more power to "blackmail" (a word other haters keep using to describe labor negotiations) the company into giving more compensation. If your wife didn't like union leadership - she was free to vote for different leaders or policies and rally other workers to her cause. As opposed to asking the boss pretty please with sugar on top.

  • I pay about $1400/year to the Teamsters, but it's a tax deduction, so it's like I never even earned it. It's also taken out automatically from my pay so I barely notice it.

  • Power Imbalance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FeelGood314 ( 2516288 ) on Saturday May 11, 2019 @09:22AM (#58573558)
    The number one reason for a union is to fix a power imbalance where an employer can set wages or working conditions and workers have limited ability to say no. If only one school board hires teachers then people who have spent years training to be a teacher can only work for that one employer, if you move to a mining town then you are partly sticky in that you it might be difficult to move away, if you have some specialized skill that required many years of training and there is only one employer such as professional sports then a union is a must.

    No it seems that unions can also abuse their power and perverse a job marked. In the auto industry, low skilled workers were able to demand high wages because they could hold the equipment of the car industry hostage. That's nice that you have a 2 billion dollar assembly plant, pay us 4 times the market rate or we will set up a strike picket line in front of it. Teacher's unions do this as well. In Canada we have a few very large unions and lots of little school boards. The individual school boards always cave because they aren't coordinated and also a teachers strike means not only is little Timmy not getting an education but his mom has to miss work so she can take care of him. Teacher's salaries are probably 3x what the market value for them is in Canada. We have 7 new graduate teachers for each possible position in Ontario.

    The biggest problem with unions is the employment inflexibility. They often create specific job classes that only a person in that class can do. This often destroys the efficiency of a companies work force. The other problems are things like seniority and the difficulty in firing useless employees.

    I think a lot of the laws protecting unions should only be in place if the union can prove a power imbalance.
    • See here [cnn.com].

      I always see people clamoring for more and more efficiency. It sounds good on paper, but a huge part of our economy is finding things for people to do so we can get money changing hands in the economy. Otherwise money collects at the top until the whole thing grinds to a halt.

  • ...and unions are, effectively, trying to blackmail business. Essentially a union bundles workers into a mass, hoping this inconvenience can offset their replaceability. Hoping.

    I have no problem with people forming unions; if those people are irreplaceable, then more power to them.

    But a company pointing out "with that $700/year you could buy a gaming system" is hardly "an all-out assault on their employees' legally-protected right to unionize". Further, if - when a union forms - the company can quickly r

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Uberbah ( 647458 )

      ...and unions are, effectively, trying to blackmail business

      Negotiation is blackmail? Workers pooling labor is no more "blackmail" than capitalists pooling capital is. And workers do the work that produces the money. Not corporate execs who spend their earnings on blow, hookers, and bribing politicians.

      But a company pointing out "with that $700/year you could buy a gaming system" is hardly "an all-out assault on their employees' legally-protected right to unionize"

      Union busting is rarely limited to putting

      • "Negotiation is blackmail? Workers pooling labor is no more "blackmail" than capitalists pooling capital is"
        I didn't say that employers weren't also doing it their own way. Both sides try to blackmail the other as much as they can. That's why I don't object to anyone trying to form a union.

        "Union busting is rarely limited to putting up posters. Union organizers are routinely fired,"
        Contrast this to what happens to people who try to cross picket lines:
        The president of one UAW local addressed a meeting of s

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