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PlayStation (Games) Games Technology

It's Not 'X', It's 'Cross' -- the PlayStation Joypad Revelation That's Caused an Outrage (theguardian.com) 117

Posted by msmash from the what's-in-a-name dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: A fortnight ago, Twitter user @drip133 asked a seemingly innocent question above a photo of the joypad: "Do you say 'x' or 'cross' button?" There were hundreds of contradictory responses, which became increasingly furious as the week wore on. Some insisted that because the other buttons are named after shapes -- Triangle, Square and Circle -- logically, the "X" button must be called "Cross"; others pointed out that as 'X' was the common usage, this was the only acceptable pronunciation. [...] Then, in a shock move, Sony itself became involved. On 5 September, the official Twitter feed of PlayStation UK stated: "Triangle. Circle. Cross. Square. If Cross is called X (it's not), then what are you calling Circle?" The scrap is a rare event in the world of video games as console manufacturers usually name buttons after numbers, unambiguous letters of the alphabet or colours. The groundbreaking Nintendo Entertainment System pad, for example, went with A, B, while the SNES added X and Y (a configuration also used by Sega and Microsoft), and in this context, it's clear that "X" is X.

Years ago, in an interview with the now defunct video game website 1UP, Sony designer Teiyu Goto explained how the buttons came to be named: "We wanted something simple to remember, which is why we went with icons or symbols, and I came up with the triangle-circle-X-square combination immediately afterward. I gave each symbol a meaning and a colour. The triangle refers to viewpoint; I had it represent one's head or direction and made it green. Square refers to a piece of paper; I had it represent menus or documents and made it pink. The circle and X represent 'yes' or 'no' decision-making and I made them red and blue respectively." Sadly, this doesn't really help because in the quote he has characterised the "X" button with an "X" symbol and who knows whether that was actually him or the journalist who wrote the piece.
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It's Not 'X', It's 'Cross' -- the PlayStation Joypad Revelation That's Caused an Outrage More

It's Not 'X', It's 'Cross' -- the PlayStation Joypad Revelation That's Caused an Outrage

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  • Never change, never improve, Internet humans (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:31PM (#59183518) Journal
    The world could literally be ready to explode into a million pieces and some people will still argue over minutiae like this.

  • This made slashdot? (Score:3)

    by Snotnose ( 212196 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:36PM (#59183538)
    Me? A huge case of "who the fuck cares?".

  • Originally Japanese (Score:5, Informative)

    by eagle42 ( 58594 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:37PM (#59183542)

    In Japanese, the symbols are called maru (circle) and batsu (cross/x), and are unambiguous.

    The English wikipedia page for the batsu symbol is called "X mark [wikipedia.org]"...

    • So, is it the "wrong" button?

      • Re:Originally Japanese (Score:5, Informative)

        by eagle42 ( 58594 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:51PM (#59183594)

        More like "no" (while the circle is "yes").

        In Japanese versions of PS games e.g. the menu selections work like that, too -- with circle you go forward, and with "X" you go backward, leading to confusion [kotaku.com] if you play both Western and Japanese releases of the games.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by _merlin ( 160982 )

          Also things like the form you fill in at the airport when you have a passport from a country that doesn't require a visa. They expect you to use a circle to mark the multiple choice responses.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I never really understood why it was X to confirm in Western games. X is usually "cancel" or "not allowed", like crossing out a mistake you wrote. We usually use a tick to indicate an option we want, except for a few circumstances like voting.

          Could have saved a lot of confusion there.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

            In France, X is used instead of ticks in forms.
            It can also represent a placeholder for the signature of someone who is unable to sign (ex: illiterates). Also a form of approval.
            There is also the idea of "X marks the spot".

            Also in Europe, road signs that are round with a red border mean that whatever is pictured inside is prohibited. If the inside is blank, so that the sign is just a red circle on a white background, it means that everything is forbidden (i.e. no vehicles).
            More generally the red color typica

          • On some systems a checkbox is marked with an X to mean yes. A solid square is perhaps better.

            Except when genius designers write the label in the negative. We've all seen something like Don't suppress not outputting a log file [ ].

          • But how else would you pay your respects at a funeral?

        • Forget about the X=Cross controversy.... I submit that Circle=O

          Discuss

          • I'm also shocked that people would refer to the Delta button as "triangle". Doesn't anyone know their Greek letters anymore?

        • Why did they change the meaning of the buttons?

          X implies cancel to me, from the sound, and shape.
          O implies "OK!" from the sound and shape! But well, I'm german.

    • Somewhat related, in Japanese "Red Cross" is translated as "Red-Plus-Shaped-Character" (strictly speaking, they use the character for 10 instead of plus-shaped, since that's what it looks like. So literally, "red-ten-character").

      The cross doesn't have the same meaning in Japanese culture that it does in Christian cultures.

      • So literally, "red-ten-character"

        The west also has X as a ten character, which it inherited from the Romans alongside V as a five character.

        • Do we use it though, apart from clocks and twats?

          • Yes, in numbered "bullet lists" or chapters in a book. As part of a name if one is the number X from the same (noble?) family with the same first name, e.g. Luise IVX. Apple in OS X and iPhone X. Eve Online to number planets and moons.

            As they are valid identifiers they sometimes show up in source code, too.

        • Yeah, that's an interesting point that had somehow escaped my notice. Thanks!
    • 'X' has no Japanese equivalent. The 'Z*' mora (Za, Zu, Ze, Zo) are as close as they get sound-wise. So why would they call it something they don't say?

      That said, in English, it makes far more sense to call it X. For one, that's 45 degrees off of what we would normally call a cross, and 'x' is a little easier to say.

      • They don't "call" it X, they call it Ju ... as Ju mans ten ... no idea what you were hunting here.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by eagle42 ( 58594 )

        'X' has no Japanese equivalent.

        Super Nintendo has the A, B, X, and Y buttons -- Japanese use alphabets just fine, and can pronounce them, imitating the English pronunciation through their own mora (something close to "ekkusu" in this case).

        The 'Z*' mora (Za, Zu, Ze, Zo) are as close as they get sound-wise.

        The English pronunciation of "X" isn't the only one, though -- e.g. pronouncing it like in Spanish or Portuguese would map easier to Japanese mora.

        For one, that's 45 degrees off of what we would normally call a cross

        You might have a strong connection to the Christian symbol, but there are plenty of other uses [wikipedia.org], too.

        'x' is a little easier to say.

        No argument there, and that's what I call it in English

  • In tic-tac-toe, do you call the marks "x's and o's" (North American) or "noughts and crosses" (British)? ;)

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Recall the satire Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift?
      The breaking eggs part...
      We are now at that level with a X and a cross :)

    • Is when people get "outraged" about whether to call a symbol a cross or an X. Hell, you could equally call it a +!

      Can we please have less fake controversy? Thanks.

      Nah I say we throw fuel of the internet trash fire instead and start a third group demanding it be referred to as the cruciform button.

    • More likely a "multiply" as '+' is "addition".

  • I've hit the X button multiple "times". Perhaps they should have gone with "+" to be more like a cross.

  • A cross has horiz / vert lines (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    an 'X' has diagonal lines. Next question.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      St Andrew would like a word with you

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Wrong. A cross can be either one.

      When you cross something out, how often do you use horizontal and vertical lines? When you see "ped xing" do you call it "pedestrian ecksing" or "pedestrian crossing"?

      • I say ped-zing Then i rememebr it means pedestrian crossing and i get on with my life

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fintux ( 798480 )
        Hmm.. Interesting. I just realized that Finnish is quite specific about these shapes. "Risti" vs. "rasti" and "ruksi" all translate to English ash "cross", but the first one usually always refers to one with a symbolic meaning, and is the only one that can refer to anything else than an X-like shape. The latter two mean a cross that has diagonal lines, and "ruksi" is a bit less informal. And then there's of course also 'plus' that is exactly same as in English - it specifically means horizontal/vertical lin

      • Strictly speaking the diagonal one (like on the Scottish flag) is a saltire.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
      Do you say "railroad x-ing" or "railroad crossing"?

      • Depends wether I X them with a laser marker waiting for the Maverick to hit it, or if I'm talking about they crossing each other :P e.g. in Railroad Tycoon.

        Oh, you meant something utterly different?

  • since the great GIF pronunciation debate.

  • Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:29PM (#59183716)

    "Do you say 'x' or 'cross' button?" There were hundreds of contradictory responses, which became increasingly furious as the week wore on.

    Sorry, I mean, fucking seriously? It's a button. As long as everyone knows what everyone else is talking about ... don't be dicks about it. (Advice that can be applied, I believe, to many circumstances.)

    Besides, there are *way* more important things going on in the world to be "furious" about -- like Vi vs. Emacs or "GIF" pronounced with a "G" or "J" to name a few. :-) [ Anyone care to add anything else ... ? ]

    • Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lost Race ( 681080 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:42PM (#59183774)

      [ Anyone care to add anything else ... ? ]

      Endianness, of course! High-order bit first or last?

      • The high order bit never can be last, the high order byte can :P
        ROFL ....

        On the other hand ... who really knows if bits have an order in the true hardware?

        • On the other hand ... who really knows if bits have an order in the true hardware?

          The guys designing serial links really know the bit order. At least I hope they do!

          • In a serial link endianess is irrelevant as it refers to multiple bytes and not a single bytes: but an interesting question, I never thought about in which order the bits go over a serial line. I always assumed it is high bit first.

    • Sorry, I mean, fucking seriously? It's a button.

      You're missing the point. It's not about the button, but rather it's about the fact that people out there are wrong. Where would we be if we couldn't argue on the internet. Probably off procreating and contributing to the already problematic overpopulation of the world.

      Sidenote: VI and it's JIF.

  • I must know the answer NOW!

  • Depends on the orientation (Score:3)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:58PM (#59183966) Journal

    After a little thought, I realized that I make the distinction based on the orientation.

    If the lines are diagonal, like "X", I tend to think of it as an 'x' like the letter.

    If the lines are vertical and horizontal, like "+", I tend to think of it as a 'cross' (or 'plus').

  • Yeah that's a real brain stumper there.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xlsior ( 524145 )

      Yeah that's a real brain stumper there.

      He's just pointing out that if you don't consider the circle to be a letter O, then you shouldn't treat the cross as a letter X either.

      • I have always thought of the buttons as alphabetic X and O characters. It never occurred to me to think of them as circle and cross.

        That is correct to me... but you may have a different interpretation that is equally valid.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fintux ( 798480 )
      I obviously call the buttons 'x', 'o', 'delta' and 'glyph not found' like any decent person.

    • If you call the the X button cross, what do you call the Y button?

  • Duh, everyone knows X is "10". When MacOS hit version 10, they labeled it "X" ( Unfortunately, it didn't stop the masses of dorks immediately incorrectly calling it "Mac" "Oh" "Ess" "ecks" They probably dropped the X because if 11 ever does come out it would be pretty stupid calling it "MacOS Ten 11").

    So, obviously, the buttons on the NES are Delta, Zero, Ten, and Quadrilateral :)

    • So, obviously, the buttons on the NES are Delta, Zero, Ten, and Quadrilateral :)

      Did you just confuse the Playstation for the NES?

  • These people are all crazy. Its obviously the "ten" button. Oh, wait; it's not an Apple product? Never mind.

  • I don't think anyone cares too much. If you say press the cross, I'll press the X-shaped one. If you say press the 'O' I'll press the circle shaped one. Most users of the Latin alphabet know what shape letters are.

    Anyway, you're all wrong. It's called "fork" [imgur.com].

  • It was called cross since the beginning.
    Are people so young now that they were not of videogaming-age 15 years ago?

  • others pointed out that as 'X' was the common usage, this was the only acceptable pronunciation

    Not how it works. If an entire street pronounces something wrong, it's still wrong, truth is not decided by popular vote. Hell, tell a Chinese guy that the white people mispronouncing his name are right and he is wrong because of common usage and tell me how many decibels he reaches when he starts screaming in your face.

    • If an entire street pronounces something wrong, it's still wrong,

      But then, if an entire region pronounces something wrong, it's a dialect.

      And if an entire nation of native speakers pronounces something wrong, it's actually correct, and you're wrong unless you have enough friends for your way to be a dialect.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by msi ( 641841 )
      Erm, that is how the English language works.
  • What? They aren't the upper-case Greek letters Delta, Omicron, Chi, and (possibly) Pi?

    https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p... [ancient.eu]
  • Talk about Much Ado About Nothing.
  • The article states: The triangle refers to viewpoint; I had it represent one’s head or direction and made it green. Square refers to a piece of paper; I had it represent menus or documents and made it pink. The circle and X represent ‘yes’ or ‘no’ decision-making and I made them red and blue respectively.

    I never realized that.
  • And if you ask Squenix they'll say that Tidus' name (from FF10) is pronounced "Teedus". They can tell us how we should pronounce things, they can even make voice actors and other employees pronounce them the way the company dictates, but at the end of the day the customers can pronounce things however they damn well please.

  • Nope! (Score:3)

    by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ) on Thursday September 12, 2019 @10:19AM (#59185338)

    Crosses are perpendicular...

    This is a "Cross": +

    This is an "ex": x

    • And what do the "Railroad Crossing" signs look like? (Which I always read at "Rail Crossing Road" anyway...)

      • The signs are "X" shaped, but the "crossing" in "railroad crossing" doesn't refer to the sign - it refers to the cross road itself, which (unless you are driving diagonally offroad), are definitely perpendicular crosses.

  • Fun fact: In spanish, the 'x' symbol of the alphabet is called "equis". It is awful to say "Use el botÃn cruz" (Use the cross button), it really sounds weird, at least for me because every game says "equis" (from PS1 to PS4) "Cruz" is more like the christian cross, but also an "X" (a rotated cross).
  • Did Jesus die on the X for nothing?!?

  • If you call an 'X' a cross (It's not), then what do you call a cross?

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