'King of Donkey Kong' Billy Mitchell Continues Defamation Suit Over Cheating Accusations (arstechnica.com) 93
destinyland shares an update about Billy Mitchell, the intense dark-haired videogame champion in the 2007 documentary The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters.
Last year the videogame record-keepers at Twin Galaxies revoked Billy Mitchell's entire lifetime's worth of videogame high scores after an online discussion argued videotapes of three of Mitchell's performances suggested they'd been achieved using a MAME emulator. Electronic Gaming Monthly reports that Mitchell has since streamed games on Twitch "obtaining scores equal to those that had been disputed, broadcast live from public venues," but the record-keepers also banned Mitchell for life from ever submitting any new high scores.
Ars Technica reports that Mitchell recently updated his defamation lawsuit against Twin Galaxies, while they've counter-filed a motion to dismiss it which is now scheduled to be heard on July 6. They argue that ruling in Mitchell's favor "would have chilling effects on the freedom of speech." But in March Billy updated his lawsuit to call their accusation "libelous on its face," saying that Twin Galaxies "at least implied [that he was a cheater], so that any reasonable reader would understand Twin Galaxies has called Mitchell a cheater who deserved punishment by stripping him of all his Twin Galaxies records and banning him for life from submitting further records." Ars Technica writes:
Mitchell takes particular issue with Twin Galaxies' alleged refusal to consider "25 sworn affidavits" from eyewitnesses supporting his claims, in favor of an exclusive focus on "scientific" evidence. Twin Galaxies founder Walter Day is quoted saying that he "find[s] it unexplainable that my testimony as the founder and former owner is disregarded, while others, specifically the ones against Billy, are embraced...."
Twin Galaxies' motion highlights that the 3,770-post dispute thread surrounding Mitchell's Donkey Kong scores (which is now included in its entirety in the court record) was viewed nearly 2.4 million times as of March 14... "Twin Galaxies believes that this was the most professionally documented and thoroughly investigated video game score of all time," Twin Galaxies owner Jason Hall said in his public declaration...
Court proceedings are "not the forum for [Mitchell] to get revenge," Twin Galaxies argues, claiming that its statements regarding Mitchell were "protected activity" under the First Amendment, and Mitchell's suit "seeks to chill the expression of free speech."
In the 1985 edition of the Guinness Book of World Records, Mitchell simultaneously held the highest scores for six different video games — Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong, Jr., Centipede, and Burger Time. Because Twin Galaxies now refuses to recognize any of Mitchell's previous records, Guinness has now also expunged those records from its publication.
In 1999 CmdrTaco noted Billy's perfect game of Pac-Man. Though no questions were ever raised about that legendary game, the 2019 edition of Guinness's record book still demoted it to a new section called "Records That Never Were."
Ars Technica reports that Mitchell recently updated his defamation lawsuit against Twin Galaxies, while they've counter-filed a motion to dismiss it which is now scheduled to be heard on July 6. They argue that ruling in Mitchell's favor "would have chilling effects on the freedom of speech." But in March Billy updated his lawsuit to call their accusation "libelous on its face," saying that Twin Galaxies "at least implied [that he was a cheater], so that any reasonable reader would understand Twin Galaxies has called Mitchell a cheater who deserved punishment by stripping him of all his Twin Galaxies records and banning him for life from submitting further records." Ars Technica writes:
Mitchell takes particular issue with Twin Galaxies' alleged refusal to consider "25 sworn affidavits" from eyewitnesses supporting his claims, in favor of an exclusive focus on "scientific" evidence. Twin Galaxies founder Walter Day is quoted saying that he "find[s] it unexplainable that my testimony as the founder and former owner is disregarded, while others, specifically the ones against Billy, are embraced...."
Twin Galaxies' motion highlights that the 3,770-post dispute thread surrounding Mitchell's Donkey Kong scores (which is now included in its entirety in the court record) was viewed nearly 2.4 million times as of March 14... "Twin Galaxies believes that this was the most professionally documented and thoroughly investigated video game score of all time," Twin Galaxies owner Jason Hall said in his public declaration...
Court proceedings are "not the forum for [Mitchell] to get revenge," Twin Galaxies argues, claiming that its statements regarding Mitchell were "protected activity" under the First Amendment, and Mitchell's suit "seeks to chill the expression of free speech."
In the 1985 edition of the Guinness Book of World Records, Mitchell simultaneously held the highest scores for six different video games — Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong, Jr., Centipede, and Burger Time. Because Twin Galaxies now refuses to recognize any of Mitchell's previous records, Guinness has now also expunged those records from its publication.
In 1999 CmdrTaco noted Billy's perfect game of Pac-Man. Though no questions were ever raised about that legendary game, the 2019 edition of Guinness's record book still demoted it to a new section called "Records That Never Were."
Important stuff (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine a world where people are not aware of who is the best player of Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong, Jr., Centipede, and Burger Time.
If he is not reinstated I am predicting a collapse of western civilsation.
Re:Important stuff (Score:5, Informative)
On the bright side this whole thing did give us the "Billy Mitchell Evidence Package"
https://arstechnica.com/gaming... [arstechnica.com]
Re:Important stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Direct link (the first page is enough to get an idea)
https://drive.google.com/file/... [google.com]
Re:Important stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
That is beside the point. They are libelling him by tacitly accusing him of being a cheater. When the allegations arose, he put his money where his mouth is and proved he wasn't cheating, but that still wasn't good enough for the insecure bigots at Twin Galaxies or Guinness.
They seriously remind me of SJWs. Once their opinion is made up, no amount of facts and evidence will change their mind, only the opportunity to attention whore and/or gain money will.
Re:Important stuff (Score:4, Interesting)
He funded Twin Galaxies, that's why it took years and overwhelming proof that he did in fact cheat for them to finally remove his scores. They still haven't regained credibility because of that.
He's a pathetic grifter.
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He didn't cheat and he proved that in the livestream. You are literally denying reality.
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He may have cheated back when he submitted that video. He was having a rivalry with Steve Wiebe, and shortly after Steve claimed the world record Billy produced his now infamous video.
Since then techniques for playing Donkey Kong have developed a lot and several people have pushed the score higher, so Billy now has the advantage of travelling a well worn path. He can see what techniques are needed to get those scores. Back when he submitted his tape they were unknown and cheating would have greatly benefite
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He did cheat, the original video proof he submitted was definitely done on MAME. No question, the real board does not behave that way, only MAME's imperfect emulation does.
He later demonstrated even better scores in public, so there is no question that he is capable of playing at that level. That's not the issue, the issue is that he claimed his earlier scores were on a real machine when in fact he was using an emulator, which is not allowed.
If it had been a genuine mistake he might have apologised and reco
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Well even with all that, he's still got his gig pitching Oxy-Clean.
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Imagine a world where you can be accused of something and there is no way for you to prove your innocence. That WOULD be a collapse of what we consider western civilization.
On the Arcade at the Arcade (Score:2)
My sympathy. (Score:5, Interesting)
I dunno if he cheated or not.
But being falsely accused of cheating can really hurt.
One of the worst days of my life, was the time I 'won' a competition (not athletic, a hundred question timed quiz on 'computer concepts' for FBLA, 'Future Business Leaders of America' (think future Pointy-haired-bosses of America...) I had actually studied the official study guide for the quizzes, instead of relying on what I already knew. The test was laughably out of date, about 3 decades behind current technology... and was about a business managers view, not the tech guys; so all the other PC hobbyists who thought it would be a breeze failed. 2 digits to store a year, 'core' memory, wire wrapped iron magnetic cores treated as current tech in the 90's!
I did so well, they disqualified me because "the only way you could have scored so high was to cheat." I got 98/100 when second place of 120 competitors was 76/100. So no trip to Washington DC for Nationals.
So I tried again the next year; and after closely watching me dominate again, they disqualified me because of a new rule they made up after the fact that you can't win twice; because I 'won' the prior year. So no trip to Anaheim CA for Nationals.
The stress of that event was so great I missed too many days of school to graduate normally, and ended up getting a GED instead.
What did those days of high school teach me? That if you work hard, study hard, do your best, you get fucked over.
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Re:My sympathy. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a tall white male with executive style hair (it's turning silvery now.), and this was in 1990/1991, when that still was an advantage overall so I'm sure I wasn't discriminated against. I even sold $424 in candy bars for fundraising for them.
But from then on I learned to play dumb until people get used to me and I can open up with them. I feel a little bad because it's kinda like lying/manipulation. Most interesting compliment I got was from my favorite late night grocery store clerk in Redmond saying she likes me because I'm not "stuck up like those Microsoft people" while I was working at Microsoft.
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I'm a tall white male with executive style hair (it's turning silvery now.), and this was in 1990/1991, when that still was an advantage overall so I'm sure I wasn't discriminated against.
There are ways to discriminate besides race.
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Yes but, race and gender are the two things you are automatically discriminated on (in person) so making the assumption that it is one of those two when you encounter an atypical behavior makes sense. Anyone who says they don't discriminate by race or gender is lying (perhaps to themselves but, still lying). Behavior studies have proven that everyone discriminates based off these two factors.
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We all sympathize [youtube.com]. Still, there's hope that that info will come in handy someday [schlockmercenary.com].
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the only way someone can say "dunno if he cheated or not" is if they are super totally ignorant of the whole thing.
in which case they'd have to be some kind of pretentious ding dong to then go on a long rant about something they know nothing about.
he cheated. it's not up for debate. and you're an idiot.
Re:My sympathy. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've looked at the evidence extensively, and I dunno if he cheated or not.
I saw his evidence first, and it seemed convincing (testimonies from people who said they saw him do it). Then I saw the evidence against him and that looked convincing (technical evidence which purports to show it had to be MAME).
Then I looked more closely at the evidence from both sides. The witnesses are mostly friends, or people who didn't actually witness it but were around when it was supposed to have happened. The technical evidence depends on timing differences between the scene generation and writing the scene to the screen; and as presented it only would prove he cheated if the play-through screenshot came from level 1 (which isn't the case).
I honestly have no idea whether he cheated or not. (And I don't have a horse in this race; so I'm not going to hazard a guess.) But, then again, I am somewhat ignorant of the politics of the situation (Mitchell does seem keen to push his star-credentials, and the new TG boss does seem keen to assert his New World Order...). Perhaps it's something in that which gave you the confidence to draw the conclusions you did.
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I saw some footage on Youtube which showed the differences in how Mame draws a scene vs how the actual arcade machine draws it. It seemed the evidence pointed to him using MAME, but that still does not prove whether he cheated or not.
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Well, if with that evidence you believe he used MAME, then he cheated. The record was submitted to a list for records on original hardware, so that's cheating. Doesn't matter if everything else was legit.
Re: My sympathy. (Score:2)
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I saw some footage on Youtube which showed the differences in how Mame draws a scene vs how the actual arcade machine draws it. It seemed the evidence pointed to him using MAME,
IMO, the problem is... isn't MAME supposed to be striving for accuracy? IF SO, and if they have gotten there with the Donkey Kong series, would that perceived difference actually be from MAME, or from the chipset / version being played?
I mean, there are 5 chipsets supported (JP set 1, JP set 2, JP set 3, US set 1, and US set 2), with differences in various aspects (even minute) being found in certain versions of the game. What's to say that one version didn't have graphic/sprite loading in a different
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you are an idiot.
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What did those days of high school teach me? That if you work hard, study hard, do your best, you get fucked over.
Many people make this experience in one way or another at some point in their life. For some it's a contest, for others it's marriage and for some can it even mean life and death. You name it... Such moments come in all shapes and forms. What is important is that you believe in yourself. If others don't then it's their loss, but remind yourself that the best minds are surrounded by lesser ones, by definition.
It's no different for the best gamers. Most game makers aren't as good at their games as the best pl
Re:My sympathy. (Score:4, Informative)
I feel for you, man. I had a similar experience in junior high in the late 80s. It sucked and I'm still bitter
In Billy's case though, it is pretty clear that his submissions were from MAME even though he denies is. It sucks that one of the greatest players who ever lived would feel the need to cheat (or at least be disingenuous) but that is where we are.
The fact is, he submitted a score that was generated with MAME and tried to fake that it was an original board, You can't prove he cheated but it is clear he misrepresented facts.
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"The fact is, he submitted a score that was generated with MAME and tried to fake that it was an original board, You can't prove he cheated but it is clear he misrepresented facts."
Yes, his cred went into the shitter when he lied about this. He should have just been honest from the beginning.
Yes, he might not have cheated, but lying about what he used instantly raised a red flag and made people assume he had something to hide.
Re: My sympathy. (Score:1)
"2 digits to store a year, 'core' memory, wire wrapped iron magnetic cores treated as current tech in the 90's!"
This is just insane. Unless these people were holed up in a bunker for 30 years, totally cut off from the world, surely they have heard people talk about microprocessors, or have seen a "home computer" which is obviously too small to be using core memory.
I am truly baffled and curious on how they could have screwed up on such a collosal scale. O_o
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I think overall, it was for the best. Instead of going to business school and burning out there or becoming a 'Dilbert's Boss'. I jumped right into programming at Microsoft at age 19. MS gets a lot of hate here, but to me growing up as a child of war refugees it was like moving onto the Starship Enterprise-D.
"dark-haired" (Score:1)
That one is pretty far down the list for me.
Regardless of if he is guilty or not... (Score:3)
Re: Regardless of if he is guilty or not... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: Regardless of if he is guilty or not... (Score:4, Informative)
Even if I don't have it, we know it is an actual chipset, a valid, OG version of Donkey Kong, and we also know therefore a non-zero number of them exist
Your assertion is that the Japanese version shows the same as Billy Mitchell's video. Your assertion is not that Japanese versions exist. I looked up the transition screens and virtually none of the ones I have found [youtube.com] corroborates what you are saying.
therefore we have to conclude that, ESPECIALLY given how much changed over the years as MAME's dev team added more rom sets for various games AND improved emulation in an effort to maintain impeccable accuracy
First of all they identified the exact versions of MAME that should the video screens as they appear in the Mitchell video as MAME being open source had kept version history. Second, Mitchell'ls own expert conceded that the Mitchell's video appear to have come from a MAME version as arcade versions do not show the same transitions.
there is (PURELY IMO of course) reason to doubt that this perceived discrepancy is actually enough to be substantial proof in of itself.
You can have your own opinion but why are you discounting the opinion of Mitchell's expert who concluded that most likely Mitchell's game play video did not come from an original arcade?
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For one, you cannot say the footage on the far right is purely from MAME/then imply that MAME footage will always look like that, BECAUASE of the MAME team's striving for accuracy and preservation -
No. Apollo's argument is that Mitchell claims he used an arcade. Apollo showed what an arcade version looks like. It looks nothing like Mitchell's video. Then he showed what MAME versions X.Y.Y thru X.Y.Z look like. This is exactly what Mitchell's video looks like. Versions prior to those in MAME and after do not show the same thing. MAME versions after those versions are closer to arcade.
which includes cataloging, and supporting individually, each individual chipset. It is because of that, therefore, that taking some footage and slapping a "MAME footage" label on it cannot be accurate,
How cannot it not be "accurate"? You can download those versions of MAME yourself and see that he's right. You can down
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Twin Galaxies rules say the record has to be set on the original hardware.
They do have a separate category for emulators.
The big difference I think is the physical controls and operating position are different, and emulators aren't perfect replications - even today - the timing is different etc - and for a pre-recorded world record its way easier to cheat on an emulator. Note - of Billy's world records were not witnessed by a referee.
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Even if that were true (seems very unlikely given that the graphics are generated that way due to the CPU writing into video RAM out of sync with the beam, and nobody cared at the time because it was a fraction of a second so why would they bother fixing it?) if he had been using Japan set 3 ROMs wouldn't the rest of the game be the Japanese version, with Japanese text?
There is no known version that plays the way Mitchel's does on real hardware, but several that play that way on MAME.
seems legit (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: seems legit (Score:4, Informative)
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Yes, he finally managed a legitimate score over a million, 9 years after his "record" score of 1,062,800 was set.
The record has been broken several times since then. Mitchell could watch gameplay videos of new record-breaking runs and use the knowledge to improve his own play. Let's see him beat John McCurdy's 1,259,000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
August 30, 2010 1,064,500 Steve Wiebe
December 27, 2010 1,068,000 Hank Chien
February 27, 2011 1,090,400 Hank Chien
May 18, 2012 1,1
Re: seems legit (Score:2)
Personally I couldn't care less, I just wish this would stop getting press because I'm sick of hearing him bitch about it.
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Same goes for "first person to ever get a perfect score at Pacman".
It's not something you can go out and retake.
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You do see the logic flaw, right?
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Not really, all that time he was world record holder on various games is now in doubt with no way to go back and verify. He got awards and significant income from it, taking those away from others who may have been more deserving.
His current scores are good but not world record level, so if we just accept those he is an also-ran some way down the chart. He isn't satisfied with that though, he wants his records and time as world champion to be recognized.
I'll just leave this here (Score:1)
This is why he is no longer in the records.
https://youtu.be/Iirf4_jiX0Y [youtu.be]
Apollo Legend was threatened (Score:5, Informative)
Special Hell (Score:3)
It's like that moment where you're about to set a new high score and suddenly the power goes out. And the harder you work for it the more special it gets. It's a special hell reserved only for the most tenacious players.
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But due the rules let you use an UPS?
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But due the rules let you use an UPS?
I stopped thinking after "due" and now all I can think of is Mountain Dew.
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But Frogger doesn't let you enter initials; it just shows a list of high scores.
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>where you're about to set a new high score and suddenly the power goes out.
There was an incident in the 80s where a kid looked like he washing to break the record for, iirc, Defender.
Someone called a news channel, and they sent out a team.
Needing to plug in the camera . . . yes, the cameraman pulled out the cord of the video game.
They gave the kid a replacement quarter.
hawk
Ok, so... (Score:2)
It's a shitty organization with zero transparency. What else is new? If I were him I would get all my contacts that support me, start a new organization with better transparency, better verification, and better people. Then work on growing to try and force Twin Galaxies into bankruptcy and buy them out. It would be relatively easy to do.
I don't care if he used a MAME the first time or not. He can clearly do it regardless. It would be one thing if he couldn't ever replicate the results on the real machine. B
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if there was no penalty for cheating then everyone would just submit their scores as original hardware scores and leave it up to TG to determine otherwise.
Twin Galaxies lost all credibility ... (Score:2)
... when they started accepting Pacman high scores/times where Pacman passes through a ghost. Claimed that's not a bug or malfunction. They don't even know _how_ to validate a high score.
Not a huge Billy fan but people of a certain age will always regard his exploits as legendary.
Re:Twin Galaxies lost all credibility ... (Score:5, Informative)
That's how the game's collision system works, it assigns the sprites to be at one specific square, then checks the squares. If they exchange squares at the exact same frame, then there is no collision, and pacman goes through the ghost. It is just how the game works.
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... when they started accepting Pacman high scores/times where Pacman passes through a ghost. Claimed that's not a bug or malfunction. They don't even know _how_ to validate a high score.
If the bug is in the original machine then it's valid.
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Surely they should have a "glitch exploit" high score list, just as the speedrunners differentiate between runs that exploit glitches and ones that just happen to be impressively quick.
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What's the point of validating a score of a game if you arbitrarily decide how the game is "supposed" to work rather than how it "actually" works? You can't just invalidate something because you think the collision system as it was designed in the game is stupid.
High scoring records attempt to keep the games as consistent and faithful to originals as possible, which is precisely what this topic is about: MAME emulated games go on a different leaderboard than original hardware games.
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Because running through a ghost is exploiting a glitch. It's cheating. It's very clearly not how the game was designed to work.
It's why speedrunners differentiate between a half hour run through Doom Eternal using geometry glitches and flying above the play area, and a two hour run through the actual game that doesn't do those things.
Both are tracked, (as is a 100% completion) because they require different skills. One is playing the game astonishingly well, the other is exploiting weaknesses in the game's
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DonkeyGate (Score:1)
Civil lawsuits are typically used to recover losses or undo undoable things (like the taking of property, etc.) In this case, maybe I'm the geek, but I don't get what his losses are or what undoing something will achieve.
Financial value of your reputation that 25 years ago you got a high score on a video game 99% of people now don't know about: $0.00
Value of being able to boast that your name appears in the Guinness Book of World Records: $0.00
I get that he thinks he was unfairly handled, and in reading t
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I guess a jury will have to decide if it's libel. I don't think so based on this from the original ArsTechnica article:
> Twin Galaxies' April 2018 decision on Mitchell's Donkey Kong scores was careful not to explicitly call Mitchell a cheater or make any direct statements about his conduct or character. Instead, it focused more narrowly on the "demonstrated impossibility of original unmodified Donkey Kong arcade hardware to produce specific board transition images shown in the videotaped recordings of t
Yes, that is what the court system is for (Score:2)
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> My beef with you...
I'm not sure you have a beef with me as much as with my layman's estimation of the reputation of someone who allegedly cheated at Donkey Kong. I once missed a baseball throw and the ump didn't call me out. Not sure that's worth a lot of money either.
I have not followed this case, but reading up on it now. https://donkeykongforum.com/in... [donkeykongforum.com]
it seems to me that it's an uphill battle to claim he did not cheat. Libel requires as its first part that someone
says something untrue about you
You stated that the value of reputation is $0.00. (Score:2)
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You wrote:
> That is, simply, factually incorrect both legally and morally. Whether one is correctly accused of having a bad reputation doesn't matter
See libel:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/we... [cornell.edu]
It requires defamation, see:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/we... [cornell.edu]
In particularly, this part:
> To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact...
Follow with me at home. I told you we don't have a beef, but also you lack understanding of libel or a reputat
Re: DonkeyGate (Score:2)
I don't know or care or give a shit if he cheated or not. I haven't followed it although I am aware. But his reputation certainly has financial value. If you showed in jeans and tshirt you should get kicked off the bench and disbarred as well.
Sorry Billy (Score:3)
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But you shouldn't have founded your entire business on your ability to play a video game.
Why not? Most people found their business or their careers on their best skill. Most people will also defend themselves if the basis for their achievements are attacked.
If I get sued because a piece of equipment I design fails I sure as hell wouldn't fold up and say "Oh well, engineering was fun while it lasted, maybe I'll try carpentry instead".
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If I get sued because a piece of equipment I design fails I sure as hell wouldn't fold up and say "Oh well, engineering was fun while it lasted, maybe I'll try carpentry instead".
I believe in the business world that's known as "pivoting"
going to get interesting (Score:2)
I cannot see how if Mitchell won, it would hurt freedom of speech - Nope, no way. There are libel and slander laws. Yes there is freedom of speech, but in this case, they are calling him a liar and a cheat in every media possible. By taking his name off the record books, they are making it fact, not opinion thus it no longer falls under freedom of speech.
Now if he is guilty, they better have solid proof.
Twin Galazies policy is very clear (Score:2)
If you cheat even once, your name is banished from their website!
Sue Me (Score:1)
Billy Mitchell really is a dirty cheat, his scores on Twin Galaxies are fradulent.
Moral of the Story (Score:1)
What happened to his hot sauce? (Score:2)
I don't care about the cheating as much as I care about what happened to his hot sauce.