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Sony Businesses PlayStation (Games)

Sony Really Hated PS4 Crossplay, Confidential Documents Reveal (theverge.com) 55

It's no secret that Sony held back PS4 cross-platform play for years, but new confidential documents and emails reveal just how much Sony was against letting people play the same games with their friends on other platforms. From a report: Sony initially blocked cross-platform play for both Rocket League and Minecraft, despite Nintendo and Microsoft both enabling players to play across Xbox and Switch. The issue really blew up when Sony blocked Fortnite crossplay in 2018, and players were angry. It now appears that Sony may have been holding out to offset potential revenue losses. In the months leading up to Sony's decision to block Fortnite crossplay in 2018, Epic Games had pleaded with Sony to enable crossplay, emails in the Epic Games v. Apple case reveal. "I can't think of a scenario where Epic doesn't get what we want -- that possibility went out the door when Fortnite became the biggest game on PlayStation," said Joe Kreiner, Epic's vice president of business development.

Kreiner proposed, "We announce crossplay in conjunction with Sony. Epic goes out of its way to make Sony look like heroes." Epic even offered to brand its E3 presence with PlayStation or add unique characters, exclusive to PS Plus subscribers, to sweeten the deal. "Let's make this a huge win for us all. Epic's not changing it's mind on the issue, so let's just agree on it now," said Kreiner. Sony didn't agree. Gio Corsi, Sony's senior director of developer relations at the time, dismissed the idea of crossplay, noting that "cross-platform play is not a slam dunk no matter the size of the title" -- a clear reference to Epic's flex about Fortnite's dominance on PlayStation. "As you know, many companies are exploring this idea and not a single one can explain how cross-console play improves the PlayStation business," said Corsi. But as of August 2019, it appears that Sony may have found a worthy argument: a way to potentially siphon off money from its competitors in exchange for access to PlayStation players.

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Sony Really Hated PS4 Crossplay, Confidential Documents Reveal

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  • Sony is schizo (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lessSockMorePuppet ( 6778792 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @01:54PM (#61342798) Homepage

    You got passionate engineers who want to make genuinely new, sometimes brilliant, sometimes a bit ahead of its time ideas..and then you have management. And it seems there's only 1 team internally, so they can't focus on a handheld and a living room console.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I've always looked at Sony as hardware vs software. The hardware is good unless there's the smallest taint of software. Once Sony got into the Digital Restriction Mechanism business, nothing software related could be trust. Protecting intellectual property became more important than creating good products.
      Sony, defective by design.

  • Conservative Sony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @02:00PM (#61342850)

    When Nintendo is looking like a forward thinking reasonable company in comparison you know you're a bit too much of a stick in the mud.

    "The rod up Sony's butt must have a rod up it's butt"

  • Garbage (Score:4, Informative)

    by Bahbus ( 1180627 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @02:17PM (#61342900) Homepage

    Sony is a garbage company that makes garbage hardware and treats their users like shit = confirmed.

    I haven't bought a dedicated Sony product in over 20 years because their bullshit. Quality has been piss poor and decreasing. Their gaming dept is completely out of touch and their first party games are so bad that they're essentially non-existent. Not to mention their Plus service is basically a hackers playground because Sony's ability to keep bad actors out is almost as bad as Blizzard/Activision's. Nintendo has better games and Xbox has the better hardware/service combo. Hell, Sony can't even design a decent controller. Ever iteration has the shittiest ergonomics possible for your hands - "Let's take a SNES controller and make it worse". That's all they did. And then they made a shittier version of an Xbox controller. "But its what my friends have..." Well you're just making Sony's shitty point for them on why they didn't want to turn cross-platform on. Stop rewarding the shitholes on the hopes they'll do what you want.

    • mostly agreed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kludge ( 13653 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @02:30PM (#61342960)

      Playstation does have some good games, but there is no way I would freakin' buy one for this crossplay issue alone. I want to play games with my friends above all, and I would let nothing compromise that, no matter how good the games are.

      • Re: mostly agreed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @03:10PM (#61343158)
        You do realize they arent alone right? HALO was originally being developed to be the pinnacle of cross platform gaming in 1999(98?). It was touted to be the first of its kind, everyone can play regardless of OS game. PC, Linux, MAC. Then along comes Microsuck. They announce the Xbox, buy the studio making HALO, make it a Xbox/PC exclusive, and say fuck everyone else. Its hard to bitch at Playstation pretending this hasnt been happening across all platforms. Honestly I am surprised its news. What is news is when they DONT do that crap. Overwatch on nintendo i believe only plays against nintendo players, not PS. maybe Fortnite is the exception?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by The MAZZTer ( 911996 )

          The fact you had to go back to the 90s for Microsoft only serves to highlight how far they've come since then. Take a look at Minecraft which is ported everywhere now, and cross platform. Also Halo MCC for PC which is now cross-platform, as well as the upcoming Halo Infinite which is releasing on PC day 1 alongside Xbox.

          Nintendo has always been doing their own thing with their own exclusive games and their online platform is barely a platform so it's difficult to compare them. Rocket League and Minecraft ar

          • Developers often limit cross-platform play when they don't intend to keep their platforms up to date wrt features. See Warframe for an example. You can't play PC + Switch, because the game on the Switch always has content releases after the PC, and they want to keep the communities on equal footing.

            Epic has other problems with this cross-platform strategy as well - since standard game controllers are slower and less accurate than keyboard+mouse, the console players get enhancements when they play, basically

          • The console and PC versions of Overwatch had different balance patches applied (e.g. auto-turrets were nerfed on console because players couldn't shoot them as quickly) so they weren't even exatly the same game.

          • Minecraft isn't exactly cross platform. Bedrock edition, which is what MS tries to promote, is only available on Windows and xbox. The original Java version, which they would kill if they thought they could, isn't available on console. Mobile is a complete beast of its own. Handheld versions are also their own ecosystems.

            The fact is that MS can be just as against cross platform as Sony and Nintendo when it suits them. Their recent cross platform support is simply part of their "extend, embrace, extinguish"

          • I dont consider xbox and PC to be different platforms. Xbox was just a PC with very specific hardware. Its still just DirectX. Thats hardly cross-platform. Did they even have to recompile? Or sid they just todd out driver support for 200 video cards and controllers?
          • by antdude ( 79039 )

            Minecraft isn't crossplayable between consoles and computers though. :(

        • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
          Without Halo, do you think XBox survives after the original console?

          I can understand the logic, needing a flagship title that make people want your console.
          • by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

            Or they could actually do some sort of innovation and increase the appeal value of the console itself. If you are relying on an exclusive game (and you aren't making that game 100% in house) then you deserve to fail.

            The PS5 has absolutely NOTHING going for it. It's not innovative like Nintendo does. It's not the most powerful in terms of raw hardware. It's not 100% backwards compatible when it absolutely could be (they admitted to artificially limiting the backwards compatibility). So you people who actuall

            • Its literally the fastest NVMe available on the market. You cant get NVMe with throughput on a PC this fast yet. That was reason enough for me. As far as backward compatibility the only thing ive played sofar is PS4 games. Which btw the ps4 could play 0 ps3 games. But it plays my ps4 games better than my ps4. Loading times are blinks of the eye. Fast traveling takes jist a couple seconds instead of nearly a minute. The PS4 (not pro) could not even take full advantage of SATA3 with SSDs. You were better off
              • Ooo you mean that NVMe that, with the latest available news, STILL doesn't work correctly? At all?

                Oh, and thanks for reminding everyone of their other previous failures on backwards compatibility that was totally possible the entire time.

                Sony products are for the same people as Apple products: losers and the tech illiterate who pretend they know or own more than they actually do.

                • Ps3 compatibility was not possible no more than powerPC compiled binaries would run on x86 architecture. Are you playing dumb or so you just have an axe to grind so bad you deliberately overlook certain things? When your game console (ie xbox) is nothing more than a PC with window dressing its a little different. Show me where the nintendo switch is backwards compatible with wiiU games? They shifted to an ARM architecture and got rid of their optical drive. The ps4 and ps5 share architecture so they can ru
                  • by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

                    I don't waste my money on either Sony's or Microsoft's consoles, and I never said anything about Nintendo's backwards compatibility - but then again Nintendo hardware lasts for basically forever, comparatively.

                    It WAS totally possible, but they backed themselves into their own impossible corner. The cell architecture was a fucking disaster of an idea - just like every other idea they have. Emulation didn't go well, because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing to begin with.

                    I don't even know what th

                    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )
                      the only console I dont buy is Xbox. I just don't see the point. If I want to game in that realm I'd just use my laptop and use its hdmi or thunderbolt3 port to send to a bigger screen.

                      Aside from the original NES and later SNES (man there were some really good titles back then), I took a break from nintendo until the Wii came out. Then as the kids started using it I upgraded to the WiiU and then the switch, though I really dont see a point in the handheld aspect of it. its portability is ok to take on t
        • by Bahbus ( 1180627 )

          You have mostly proved my point for me by having to point back to historical examples. It USED to be the norm. Especially since having networked play WASN'T the norm. As soon as cross-platform play became viable, any company going out of their way to not use it (unless title is single-player) is both anti-consumer AND a stupid business decision. Top that with mediocre hardware, a shitty network, and absolutely zero innovation and you have Sony - a company that should not be capable of existing but continues

        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          Quake had cross platform play long before halo.

          • I believe the original gameplay required IPX/SPX though.. or was that Doom?
            • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

              Doom for DOS, the unix versions always had TCP/IP support and i believe it may have been added later for DOS.
              It seems Quake for DOS required a commercial tcp stack, whereas the windows/unix/os2/amiga versions had native support.

    • by storkus ( 179708 )

      Sony is a garbage company that makes garbage hardware and treats their users like shit = confirmed.

      2 of those things are true: the garbage hardware part is definitely not. They are a huge conglomerate, owning everything from movie studios to fabs:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      I *really* hate to say this (no joke) but trying to get away from Sony is harder than just about any other company out there: at least Disney didn't make the camera in your smart phone!

      • I don't remember if I originally said it, but I recognize they are too big to 100% avoid since they also make tiny tech parts (like you stated camera). Similarly, Nestle owns so many brands and sub brands and ingredients for other things that my money trickles to them even if I avoid anything actively branded by them.

        But when I refer to their "hardware" I'm referring specifically to their branded straight to end user hardware, not the hardware wholesaled to other companies for their products. So I guess "de

    • Lol, you haven't had SONY hw in your hands for 20 years yet you claim to be an expert in quality of their products? Truly mature. Also, Dualsense is an excellent controller, way superior to M$.
  • don't tend to like the concepts of open or interoperable technologies.
  • by sconeu ( 64226 )

    Sony are jerks.

    But then, I repeat my self.

  • by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @02:35PM (#61342986)

    My next console is still going to be a gaming PC.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      You might be waiting a while, GPUs are extremely difficult to come by and the shortage is likely to last well into next year. For a lot of people a PS5 is a decent alternative, even if only temporarily, costing about as much as a mid-range GPU in normal times.

      • > GPUs are extremely difficult to come by and the shortage is likely to last well into next year. ... PS5 is a decent alternative ...

        And the current PS5 shortage situation is different how again? /s

        The reality is it doesn't matter if you are trying to buy a GPU or PS5 -- you are going to have a hard time. Good luck getting ANYTHING in stock. Quantity is still extremely limited [tomsguide.com] and will be for the foreseeable future.

  • by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday May 03, 2021 @03:11PM (#61343166)
    I remember when I could type in an IP address and it didn't matter what the person at the other end had, if they could run the game you could play.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      But that requires you have technically savvy friends and you have to wait until they are ready to play as well.

      Players expect to be able to play online when they like, against similarly skilled players in matches arranged automatically on-demand, with almost no effort.

    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      Ah, but you forget to factor in that every time Sony tested cross-platform play the people playing on their platform got brutally hammered by people on PCs using mouse and keyboard.

      They couldn't dare let all their customers realise there were superior options (with better graphics) available.

    • by N1AK ( 864906 )
      Care to give an example of where this was relevant to consoles? Or is the "valuable insight" we're supposed to take away from your memory that you could play a game on PC with another person on PC, or maybe Mac... which remains the case.
  • Sony has a long history of doing it’s own thing and telling everyone else to go fk themselves no matter how much it actually hurts sony. Anyone remember memory sticks? A proprietary portable memory storage card that only worked with Sony products and cost several times more than all competing products. Sony will never know how many sales they lost because customers bought a competing camera or product that supported industry standard storage options.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Sony has a long history of doing itâ(TM)s own thing and telling everyone else to go fk themselves no matter how much it actually hurts sony. Anyone remember memory sticks? A proprietary portable memory storage card that only worked with Sony products and cost several times more than all competing products. Sony will never know how many sales they lost because customers bought a competing camera or product that supported industry standard storage options.

      Hell, the PS Vita used proprietary memory cards t

  • "We announce crossplay in conjunction with Sony. Epic goes out of its way to make Sony look like heroes."

    Well.. that is one way to look at it... the other way is that Epic would be getting the boost of Sony's branding with virtually nothing in it for Sony.... so they said no. In fact I would say Sony would have been more receptive if he had not "offered" to use their branding. This just shows a lack of understanding of how these types of business people think, and how protective they are of their branding.
  • Sony hates everyone else in the industry, and can hold a grudge for a really really long time.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Which basically rules out any PC gaming, or the current xbox/playstation versions which have multiple tiers. In fact, it pretty much rules out internet play entirely because users might have different network connections or different screens even if they are using exactly the same console.
      The only way to have a fair competition is LAN play where all the equipment is provided by the organiser.

  • Hey, it's not my thing, but if someone wants to dress up as Ratchet or Kratos to get their freak on, I think it is none of Sony's business. Ohhhh, Crossplay...
  • You really want your "l33t ub3r gam0rz" on your console to realize they get their asses kicked by nearly anyone with a mouse+kb? Is that a smart economic move, PROVING to your customers that your HID is basically a giant set of training wheels?

    How many consoles you think you'll sell NEXT year?

  • I haven't bought any Sony-developed games for years just because they make them all playstation exclusive. Pick your poison.

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