Id Software Tries To Stop A Man From Naming His Band 'Doomscroll' (kotaku.com) 67
Amazon employee Dustin Mitchell is also a metal guitarist in Texas who decided to name his band "Doomscroll," reports Kotaku — and in February Mitchell tried trademarking Doomscroll with America's Patent and Trademark Office.
But then on October 13th, the last day of the trademark's 30-day public comment period, "he got an email from a lawyer who represented Id Software." The lawyer asked Mitchell to extend the 30-day USPTO trademark deadline in order to avoid any legal action.
Mitchell felt weird after getting the email, telling Wired that he was a big fan of the old Doom games as a kid and now he was facing off against the devs over his band name. "They're trying to take something away from me that is completely unrelated to them," said Mitchell. A trademark lawyer told Wired that while it might seem odd, Mitchell most likely had every right to trademark the word doomscroll because within the context of music it "is not generic or descriptive of music, musical performances, or musical services."
But Id's lawyers are most likely "scooting" in to try to protect the brand name and franchise from any confusion. According to the Wired report, Id has similarly stepped in to stop other folks from trademarking or registering brand names that use the word doom, including a rock metal event named the "Maryland Doom Fest" and a podcast titled "Garden of Doom." For now, the future of Doomscroll (The band) is up to lawyers at Id Software.
In October, Mitchell received a lengthy trial schedule that goes all the way until 2023. So this most likely won't be settled anytime soon, unless the guitarist gives up the fight.
But then on October 13th, the last day of the trademark's 30-day public comment period, "he got an email from a lawyer who represented Id Software." The lawyer asked Mitchell to extend the 30-day USPTO trademark deadline in order to avoid any legal action.
Mitchell felt weird after getting the email, telling Wired that he was a big fan of the old Doom games as a kid and now he was facing off against the devs over his band name. "They're trying to take something away from me that is completely unrelated to them," said Mitchell. A trademark lawyer told Wired that while it might seem odd, Mitchell most likely had every right to trademark the word doomscroll because within the context of music it "is not generic or descriptive of music, musical performances, or musical services."
But Id's lawyers are most likely "scooting" in to try to protect the brand name and franchise from any confusion. According to the Wired report, Id has similarly stepped in to stop other folks from trademarking or registering brand names that use the word doom, including a rock metal event named the "Maryland Doom Fest" and a podcast titled "Garden of Doom." For now, the future of Doomscroll (The band) is up to lawyers at Id Software.
In October, Mitchell received a lengthy trial schedule that goes all the way until 2023. So this most likely won't be settled anytime soon, unless the guitarist gives up the fight.
Bethe$da? (Score:3)
But it says a lawyer representing Id Software. Do they know about that? Seems untypical.
They've never heard of Doomscrolling before perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
They've never heard of Doomscrolling before perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
And doom metal pre-dates Id Software. I don't know exactly when the term came in to use, but it was definitively no later than 1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Bethe$da? (Score:4)
This kind of stuff is why everyone hates lawyers. Because any lawyer with a conscience would have told Bethesda/iD that this kind of frivolous bullshit was unconscionable - indeed, Rule 3.1 [americanbar.org] expressly forbids bringing this kind of bullshit. "A lawyer shall not bring or defend a proceeding, or assert or controvert an issue therein, unless there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous...
The problem is, almost no lawyers have functioning consciences.
Re: (Score:3)
Circular logic. A lawyer is not supposed to bring a case that is frivolous - per the rules of the ABA, as well as federal code [cornell.edu] , but you argue that the only way to know if a case is frivolous is to bring it.
I think you just proved why lawyers are, mostly, conscienceless parasites on society. It's time they start getting punished regularly for this shit.
Re:On whether something is "Frivolous" or not (Score:4, Insightful)
Lawyers are not supposed to be moral arbiters -- they are supposed to be, well, like the mentats in Dune. They serve the interests of their employer by giving them the most effective representation possible within the bounds of the law. The whole point of them being amoral is so that they can act as an extension of the client who does not have the legal skills to represent themselves effectively.
Think of lawyers as an enabling technology, like power tools. They can be used for good or evil but how they are wielded is the responsibility of who wields them.
Obviously when lawyers represent themselves, then they are also morally culpable, but this is also why lawyers are generally encouraged to *NOT* represent themselves.
In this case the management at Bethesda/Zenimax/Microsoft needs to back off and call off their legal team. If they *want* their legal team to do this, then their legal team is obligated to do it as long as their actions are legal.
We as a society need to use other means to discourage stupid lawsuits like this other than blaming lawyers for it. Someone is wielding the lawyers and they need to be held accountable.
Re:On whether something is "Frivolous" or not (Score:5, Insightful)
>Think of lawyers as an enabling technology, like power tools. They can be used for good or evil but how they are wielded is the responsibility of who wields them.
But they aren't. They are thinking beings that should have a sense of morals, ethics, and values.
>Obviously when lawyers represent themselves, then they are also morally culpable,
When they represent others, they are also morally culpable for their actions. I don't know why you would think otherwise.
>We as a society need to use other means to discourage stupid lawsuits like this other than blaming lawyers for it.
Also to stop having attitudes about lawyers like yours.
Regards.
Re: (Score:1)
I don't see any problem with that circular logic. The only way to know for sure if a case is frivolous, is to bring it. If it does indeed turn out to be frivolous, you get punished. Basically, if you're unsure whether or not your case is frivolous, it's probably best not to bring it. At least that's the way it should be.
Compare with "only a judge can decide whether or not killing my girlfriend is murder, therefore I can go ahead and kill her without fear of being convicted of murder. After all, how could I
Re: (Score:2)
Barratry - is a crime at least at common law. It probably should be fully codified and on the books everywhere. It would cut down on a lot of this kinda of nonsense. It would also cut down a lot of stupid legal games various parties play around court shopping etc.
The standard should be knowingly of course. That way it would not unfairly burden or chill the ability to bring cases by those who can't afford legal council or can't reasonably justify its use in things like small claims matters. Ie if you as Joe
Re: (Score:2)
If you can bill for it, it's not frivolous. Problem with our legal system
Re: (Score:3)
Problem is, they are required to bring cases to defend the trademark on "Doom" or lose it. There is, as far as I've ever heard, no rules about "these fields are different enough that you don't have to worry about it" so they pretty much have to litigate everything even if they fully expect to lose.
Re: (Score:2)
This kind of stuff is why everyone hates lawyers...
I hate lawyers too, but in this case I put the blame squarely on the law, not the lawyers. It should be legally impossible to have a copyright or a trademark, in ANY context, on ANY word that appeared in an academically-recognized dictionary prior to the filing for copyright. Even if it happens to be an Old English word or a word in any other dead language - if it's in a dictionary or can be proven to have been in common usage, then just fuck right off with your copyright or trademark application.
Re:Bethe$da? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's it. It's not even remotely related with the Doom videogame franchise. And since it's a term that's already been used for a while on the internet, especially among the younger generations, it's also highly unlikely that someone could confuse it with the Doom videogame franchise.
Re: (Score:1)
They've never heard of Doomscrolling before perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ [wikipedia.org]...
Also "The Dungeon of doom" predates ID software too - so even in a game context the word Doom is far from unique to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
For some reason the wiki article is about a PC version of the dame that was named slightly differently but the article also mentions the version I played on a mac in about 1985 that everyone knew as the Dungeon of Doom. In the article, that's also clearly visible on the screenshot of the game's load screen.
Re: (Score:3)
They've never heard of Doomscrolling before perhaps?
They probably have, but doesn't matter, because this is the IP laws working the way they are supposed to, which is to say whoever has the deepest pockets wins.
Fuck Id Software (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fuck Id Software (Score:4, Interesting)
He should get revenge by calling his band The Id-iots.
Re:Fuck Id Software (Score:4, Interesting)
Came here to say this.
I remember a time when they were on the right side of history. When doing cool stuff was more important than punching down.
Re:Fuck Id Software (Score:5, Interesting)
A little story specific to id Software. Back in the day, I ported Quake and Quake II to pocket PC.
https://games.slashdot.org/sto... [slashdot.org]
https://games.slashdot.org/sto... [slashdot.org]
That is all GPL'ed code, of course. Then I did a job for ATI, who were heavily involved in defining the new OpenGL ES standard coupled with a new mobile chipset which was one of the first to provide GPU type rending for mobile devices (remember, early 2000s, the ARM CPUs in Pocket PCs didn't even have floating point processor, so it was a huge deal).
So I took my Pocket Quake port, which was heavily optimized for CPUs without floating point processing, and added in the GLQuake OpenGL rendering, but refactored for the new (and unreleased) OpenGL ES. I worked (in person at times) with one of the main architects of the OpenGL ES standard to make this happen, and get the performance ATI wanted to see with their new mobile GPU chip. I ended up getting it running close to 60 FPS on their chipset, and in my discussion with the ATI guys I said I'd like to see about releasing a commercial version of Quake for these new mobile devices. I told them since they weren't releasing or distributing the game, and only using it as a demo to sell their chipsets, they didn't need to release the source code. One of the tweaks I made at the time was to redefine the bitmap for the particle effects. In Quake with software rendering, particles were just squares, for maximum performance. In OpenGL ES they were an actual texture, so they could be any "shape" of course with zero impact to performance. So I made them more of a diamond shape that looked a lot better with the hardware. That texture bitmap was literally an array hardcoded into the game engine source code itself, and not part of the "content" which was not GPLed.
Not long after that, I was contacted by some 3rd party who somehow snagged the code directly from ATI and had some technical questions about the it. I was a bit miffed of course, wondering who this guy was and why he was wanting technical details about the source that shouldn't have been distributed at that point. So they started threatening me legally because they had obtained the rights to mobile quake with id Software and didn't want me doing anything further with the Pocket Quake ports I had done. A bit down the road, after seeing a demo of their version of Quake (which was terribly received - my version always supported analog m-look using touchscreen, while theirs was basically just joystick based). The diamond-shaped textures I had defined in the code were clearly visible, and so it was obvious that they were using the work I'd done, which was provided to them by ATI (in violation of our agreement), and were using it commercially. I advised them and id Software (Carmack and Todd Hollenshead) that they needed to release the source code, because they were using GPLed code that was worked on outside of id Software by 3rd parties under GPL. Basically I was told to go screw myself, that the GPL license allowed them to close-source any GPL contributions whenever they wanted.
Anyway, it was then I learned a bit about the realities of big business, and id Software was seeing a way to (maybe) make new money off their existing games, and didn't care one bit some asshole obtained the source in a questionable manner, and was being a jerk to the one guy who had busted his butt bringing the game onto very cutting edge mobile hardware at the time. So nah, this legal stuff with id Software about the rock band doesn't surprise me one bit. Even though neither Carmack nor Hollenshead are there any more.
Re: Fuck Id Software (Score:2)
So... seems they were the good guys only because I was too young & stupid.
BTW, if you know of GPL violations, the FSF and Stallman will happily listen to you. Many times they'll happily sue.
Re: (Score:2)
That doesn't match my experience. My experience is that the FSF is only interested in defending the GPL if you assign copyright of the material to the FSF themselves. This definitely makes things easier for them, but it means you're unlikely to get help defending against GPL infringement when it isn't an FSF project in question.
Re: (Score:2)
More info with the press releases, since this seemed to garner a little interest:
Thanks to an agreement between id Software and publisher Pulse Interactive, the first person action shooter Quake, created by id Software will be rolling onto a new generation of 3D-enabled mobile handsets
The software is in development by Bare Naked Productions for a new generation of mobile phone handsets which feature dedicated 3D graphics hardware. This new advancement allows the phone to display complex 3D environments and objects, representing a large leap forward from the current generation of mobile phones.
http://www.nfsunlimited.net/fo... [nfsunlimited.net]
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/... [gamesindustry.biz]
Again, they had to do little of nothing development-wise at that point. Although the Pulse Interactive guy will say otherwise. They did have to spend time bastardizing the controls and dumbing things down, after all. I'd even integrated compression to the .pak format to get the games to fit on the 16 MB CF cards of the time.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not even the same id Software we loved. :(
Re: (Score:2)
Worth noting that this is the same Bethesda who sued Mojang, makers of Minecraft, when they announced a new game named Scrolls because it was too close in Bethesda’s opinion to The Elder Scrolls. So, I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop on this poor guy as they suggest that he’s infringing on both Doom and The Elder Scrolls, either of which would be ludicrous. Especially so, given that “doomscrolling” is a term unto itself.
Re: (Score:2)
It's Zenimax now. This is what Zenimax does. Id, as we once knew it, no longer exists.
Re: (Score:1)
Recently they became part of Microsoft. Even deeper pockets now.
Re: (Score:2)
You'd think MS would have the common sense to step on this sort of rampaging lawyer nonsense.
One of the big things Satya Nadella did when he came in was to seriously reign in the mad lawyers and pivoted the company to actually being polite to developers and the community.
Apparently not.
Microsoft, we notice these things, pay attention to what your minions are doing.
Re: (Score:2)
"They" have nothing to do with it. The people who made doom back in the ninteys have all more or less left. Carmac works for some AI thing. Romero left long ago and now works as a random game designer and professional long hair guy. Dave Taylor made linux game ports for a while and I have no idea where he is. Sandy Peterson works for Barking Lizard as a game designer. Tom Hall cofounded Ion Storm with Romero. The only one still there I *think* is Kevin Cloud, who's a producer on the Doom games.
But the origi
It's Microsoft. (Score:2)
id hasn't existed as a real independent entity for a long fucking time. [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
No real case, but emails are free (Score:2)
So why not see if some chump will buckle?. SOP.
Doom (Score:2)
But Id's lawyers are most likely "scooting" in to try to protect the brand name and franchise from any confusion. According to the Wired report, Id has similarly stepped in to stop other folks from trademarking or registering brand names that use the word doom, including a rock metal event named the "Maryland Doom Fest" and a podcast titled "Garden of Doom." For now, the future of Doomscroll (The band) is up to lawyers at Id Software.
DC's in trouble [wikipedia.org] then.
Re: (Score:2)
Dr. Doom: am I nothing to you?
Doom Metal (Score:2)
Doom Metal music isn't what it used to be. Doomscroll's Facebook page has encouraging paintings [facebook.com], and cute pictures of their cat. Sigh.
What does that mean for Indiana Jones? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
In the example that you raised specifically, Indiana Jones is Lucasfilm which is Disney [wikipedia.org]. I have no doubt who would win THAT punching-down contest. I'm sure Id also knows, which is why Lucasfilm will not be sued by Id.
Re: (Score:1)
I also don't think companies should be able to trademark singular common english words going back centuries much less derivatives which are different.
In other news (Score:5, Funny)
The English language filed a Cease and Desist against Id Software this morning, seeking an injunction against the company's attempts to appropriate and control commonly-used English words.
Bill Gates has filed an amicus brief on behalf of Id in the dispute.
Re: (Score:1)
> Bill Gates has filed an amicus brief on behalf of Id in the dispute.
Ah yes, with the spoils from his own company's litigious blackmailing past he now speaks on behalf of the oppressed.
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.
Is this still the Id Software we used to know? (Score:1)
Doom is a common English noun (Score:2)
Just like Windows was not trademarkable for the same reason.
This whole case is a case of where law just gets f**king stupid, and is a plaything for the rich.
This is standard for trademarks (Score:2)
This is standard behavior for companies with trademarks.
If you don't attempt to protect the trademark, then you lose it, so companies with generic terms trademarked have to go after anyone that uses something similar just to establish a history of protecting their trademarks.
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't attempt to protect the trademark, then you lose it
Not entirely accurate. They need to defend it when appropriate, but not when it's clearly not encroaching. That said.. It's much cheaper to just send a letter now, and hope he moves on, than it would be to fight him later if somehow it ended up being more relevant.
Re: (Score:2)
"Abuse of trademark" (Score:2)
If there's justice in the world, not only will the USPTO allow the Doomscrolling trademark, but revoke Id's Doom one as too generic.
You know how it's illegal for a monopolist to abuse its monopoly? I say the same should happen to trademark owners that abuse their trademarks to quash others' that aren't even remotely related (as in this case).
Re: (Score:2)
Is a "term being used" an attempt to register a trademark?
Re: (Score:2)
Leave him alone! (Score:2)
Dustin Mitchell is also a metal guitarist in Texas who decided to name his band "Doomscroll,
He's in Texas; he needs all the optimism he can find. :-)
Limits on trademarks (Score:2)
Before we light our torches (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The fact there would be a dispute/challenge is not concerning in and of itself. The notion that the legal system enables a huge player with patience to go to a smaller participant and demonstrate "we have the resources and time to tie things up for over a year, are you able to do the same or just give up?" to basically encourage people to give up the dispute without determining who is in the right.
I guess we are all ... (Score:5, Funny)
*puts on sunglasses* Doomed.
I'll see myself out.
Castle Wolfenscroll sounds like a good band name (Score:4, Funny)
Hopefully it's still available.
Voodoomojo (Score:2)
Or Voodoomofo. That works, too.
Doom Predates Doom (Score:2)
Id Software have an uphill battle given that doom is a well-established sub-genre of metal that appeared a decade before their first game.
That said, this band is not metal at all, it's mostly acoustic folk with some punkish style to the vocals.
Elitist pro-tip for journalists: if a band doesn't appear on Metal Archives [metal-archives.com] then it's not metal, and yes that goes for "nu" and most "-core".
Re: Doom Predates Doom (Score:2)
Something Similar Happened To This Band..... (Score:1)
Metal (Score:2)
For those that don't know "doom" is a genre of metal, hence Maryland Doom Fest. Wikipedia sez: "Doom metal is an extreme subgenre of heavy metal music that typically uses slower tempos, low-tuned guitars and a much "thicker" or "heavier" sound than other heavy metal genres. Both the music and the lyrics intend to evoke a sense of despair, dread, and impending doom. The genre is strongly influenced by the early work of Black Sabbath, who formed a prototype for doom metal."
So it's kind of like slower, depress