'The Phone is Terrible For Cloud Gaming' (theverge.com) 87
An anonymous reader shares a column: The promise of cloud gaming is that you can do it from anywhere using any device with internet access and a good enough browser (each cloud gaming service seems to have its own requirements on the browser front). You should be able to play super demanding games whether you're on a work trip with nothing but a work laptop or at home and the main TV is being hogged -- or even if you just don't feel like sitting on the couch. But the biggest promise of cloud gaming is that, no matter where you are, if you've got a phone then you've got all your games.
In practice, this is a bad idea. After spending the last few weeks rapturously using my Steam Deck near daily to play games in the cloud, I am never going to willingly attempt cloud gaming on my phone again. Valve's enormous do-anything handheld PC has made me realize that, actually, sometimes dedicated gaming hardware is good! The Swiss Army knife approach to mobile gaming promised by cloud gaming on your phone is about as useful as the saw on a real Swiss Army knife. I appreciate the effort, but I don't actually want to use it.
I've tried to make cloud gaming work on my phone a lot. I've attempted Red Dead Redemption 2 and Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order and Halo and Gears of War and plenty of other games. Each time, I'm hit with wonder because, holy shit, these are demanding AAA games that usually require tons of expensive (and noisy) hardware playing on my phone. That feels like the delivery on a promise tech companies made me decades ago. But the wonder wears off when you cloud game on your phone for an extended period of time. Cloud gaming drains the phone's battery quickly, which means you can and will be feeling the battery anxiety.
In practice, this is a bad idea. After spending the last few weeks rapturously using my Steam Deck near daily to play games in the cloud, I am never going to willingly attempt cloud gaming on my phone again. Valve's enormous do-anything handheld PC has made me realize that, actually, sometimes dedicated gaming hardware is good! The Swiss Army knife approach to mobile gaming promised by cloud gaming on your phone is about as useful as the saw on a real Swiss Army knife. I appreciate the effort, but I don't actually want to use it.
I've tried to make cloud gaming work on my phone a lot. I've attempted Red Dead Redemption 2 and Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order and Halo and Gears of War and plenty of other games. Each time, I'm hit with wonder because, holy shit, these are demanding AAA games that usually require tons of expensive (and noisy) hardware playing on my phone. That feels like the delivery on a promise tech companies made me decades ago. But the wonder wears off when you cloud game on your phone for an extended period of time. Cloud gaming drains the phone's battery quickly, which means you can and will be feeling the battery anxiety.
Oh noez! (Score:5, Insightful)
"The cloud" cannot magically make up for wet-string-and-cans connectivity, throttled-for-powersavings CPUs, physically small screens, and the limitations of touchscreens.
Who would have thougth that? Who could possibly have predicted that?
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"The cloud" cannot magically make up for wet-string-and-cans connectivity, throttled-for-powersavings CPUs, physically small screens, and the limitations of touchscreens.
Who would have thougth that? Who could possibly have predicted that?
(Mobile Gaming Industry) "Yeah, can you please walk and bitch, I'm on the way to the bank to make another deposit, and then I need to catch my jet to the Bahamas..."
Not exactly Grandma's tea trivet business barely making ends meet. Maybe we stop pretending smartphones aren't one of the most addictive devices ever created. This is like wondering how opium ever made it into a prescription pill bottle.
Re:Oh noez! (Score:5, Informative)
What the parent comment was talking about is Cloud Gaming on mobile devices, which allows games to be rendered on a server and streamed to a phone or other device in (sort of) real-time. These are typically much larger console or PC based games that follow more traditional game designs and mechanics, with an emphasis on longer play sessions and deeper engagement. The problem is that they are almost always designed for a mouse and keyboard or a game controller. To compensate for this, streaming apps typically add some sort of button and joystick overlay on the screen to allow for a "similar interface", but they are almost always terrible to use. Game controllers and M&Ks have a huge benefit of real buttons and tactile feedback. Trying to judge how far to move one's thumb on a flat slab of glass without looking is a lesson in frustration.
The article is a very "well no shit" sort of opinion. Anyone who has tried streaming a game to their phone can attest to what a frustrating experience that is. That being said, I'm fine with seeing tech and gaming writers cry about this a bit more (even if it is somewhat clickbait). Their squeaky wheels may end up getting the entire industry the grease it really needs.
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...The problem is that they are almost always designed for a mouse and keyboard or a game controller. To compensate for this, streaming apps typically add some sort of button and joystick overlay on the screen to allow for a "similar interface", but they are almost always terrible to use.
I think you've identified the actual problem here. They should have never released a game with some shitty "overlay" for a controller. Are these designers unaware of Bluetooth? The hell is wrong with designing actual controller compatibility? Even mouse and keyboard could have been developed.
The article is a very "well no shit" sort of opinion. Anyone who has tried streaming a game to their phone can attest to what a frustrating experience that is.
Yup, definitely a "no shit" problem that should have been addressed before release. But, phones are THE future of entertainment no matter how much it doesn't make sense. Isn't addiction awesome? It's almost as gr
Are games allowed to require a controller? (Score:2)
They should have never released a game with some shitty "overlay" for a controller. Are these designers unaware of Bluetooth? The hell is wrong with designing actual controller compatibility?
I always thought it was that the app store operator requires that all listed games be playable with only the touch screen, with the controller considered optional.
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They should have never released a game with some shitty "overlay" for a controller. Are these designers unaware of Bluetooth? The hell is wrong with designing actual controller compatibility?
I always thought it was that the app store operator requires that all listed games be playable with only the touch screen, with the controller considered optional.
I always thought game developers might actually test the actual functionality of their games before releasing them to a store full of not-my-problem-finger-pointers.
With this amount of bitching in the community, sounds like a controller is about as "optional" as a steering wheel in a car.
One star rating for even having fine print (Score:2)
I always thought game developers might actually test the actual functionality of their games before releasing them to a store full of not-my-problem-finger-pointers.
Developer: "We tested the game. We found later levels unplayable with the touch screen alone. We acknowledge this in the game's description page. Reducing the difficulty of the game as a whole to accommodate touch screen users would have substantially compromised the experience for controller users. Please buy a controller."
Users: "We tested the game. We found later levels unplayable with the touch screen alone. One star."
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It's too bad there is abs
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It's also too bad there is no way to clip your phone to said controller.
And no way to fit the combined phone and controller in a trouser pocket once they are clipped together.
And, as far as I'm aware, no sales figures published by controller makers to entice game developers to develop controller-dependent phone games.
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Something about smart phones, they sound great on paper but work like crap in real life. the 4G/5G sounds like a lot of speed, but everything crawls on the phone and you wait forever for the web page to load, and if it's got a lot of ads then it may never load (I have adblock but no noscript, but on facebook when it goes to a new page it uses the default browser without plugins). And games that should be LOCAL, are not. If I am out of wifi range, a solitaire game won't play. I don't want to turn on cell
Re:Oh noez! (Score:5, Funny)
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What is wet-string-and-cans connectivity?
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https://www.bbc.com/news/techn... [bbc.com]
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https://www.bbc.com/news/techn... [bbc.com]
Thanks for that - I hadn't heard about it and just assumed that it was a bandwidth upgrade for "a string and two tin cans".
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https://www.bbc.com/news/techn... [bbc.com]
Thanks for that - I hadn't heard about it and just assumed that it was a bandwidth upgrade for "a string and two tin cans".
I actually learned a tad I had not heard before from that link. Funny the things some people will play with, just to see if it works.
A match made in heaven. (Score:5, Insightful)
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"The cloud" cannot magically make up for wet-string-and-cans connectivity, throttled-for-powersavings CPUs, physically small screens, and the limitations of touchscreens.
You forgot "comically undersized batteries", where instead of lasting a week or more when the CPU is idle, in areas with poor cell reception, the batteries barely last a day when the CPU is idle.
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Yes, true. My old Nokia phone would easily last a week or more on a charge. My smart phone needs daily charging, sometimes more if I actually use the phone. They're designed to be "always on", even if you have them turned off.
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Who the hell attempts to play anything but a mobile game using touch-screen controls? I know the Xbox cloud service demands you plug a controller in.
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Right,the Steam deck only benefit is for those without good wifi / consistent 4g
my quite capable travel Steam Link + Retroarch setup consists of
https://www.amazon.com/dainsle... [amazon.com]
plus
https://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Co... [amazon.com]
means you get nearly all the useful features of steam deck without paying $350 more for a dedicated device, and still nearly 1/3 the weight Steam Deck takes (yes, even with aa batteries in the controller its .6 pounds vs 1.4))
All you get with Steam deck is tons of retraining trying to learn steam
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I have this [amazon.com], and the phone bracket is included! That puts it at literally a 1/10th of the price of a Steam Deck
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The times when I would want "mobile" gaming is precisely those times when internet connectivity is bad. Road trips, etc.
And for a good game that's interesting, you'd need an expensive phone, not the bargain one. Those phones cost way more than a console or sometimes even a basic PC with a good video card. Customers don't notice this because they're paying for it monthly with a subscription, thus they don't realize that their phone actually costs $1000 or more. Finally, the phone display, and steam deck
Cellphones Rot for a Lot of Things (Score:2)
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That is if you get low level access to the hardware, use a compiled language, and of course have competent programmers. Take handheld gaming consoles as an analogue here. Besides of providing peripherals that are designed for the special purpose of acting as a human machine interface to interact with video games, they are quite similar.
So the fundamental problem with Cloud Gaming here would be that they deliberately are not running things lo
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Handheld gaming consoles are physically a lot bigger, so they can use bigger batteries, do a lot more for thermal management, have larger screens, and (as you mention) have better input devices. Those are all huge, relevant differences between mobile phones and handheld gaming consoles.
On the other hand, remote gaming over a LAN isn't terrible. But cloud gaming from a phone will almost never have latency that low.
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The main reason for hand held gaming consoles like the Switch or Steam Deck is to accommodate larger screens.
Other than that they're special purpose devices which are designed with the main purposes of gaming while a modern phone is a general purpose device that runs a lot of crap (from the perspective of a special purpose gaming console) in the background that takes up CPU cycles, GPU cycles, memory, and drains the battery.
Yea
It's about the buttons (Score:2)
The main reason for hand held gaming consoles like the Switch or Steam Deck is to accommodate larger screens.
The screen of one of these consoles is about as big as that of a 7" Android tablet such as the Nexus 7. Yet even a 7" touch screen is inadequate for a game that isn't point-and-click. For comparison, a Game Boy Color has a 2.4" screen, tiny by current mobile phone standards. Yet it's so much more comfortable to use for games where you make a character move, jump, and fire.
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Though here we can take another look at the Nintendo Switch. If you remove the Joycon peripherals, it looks pretty much like a tablet and can also be used via touch screen to some degree.
And likewise for a phone you could use 3rd party peripherals that are supported over Bluetooth or even USB. I can do this fo
Expectation of availability; fitting in a bag (Score:2)
Though here we can take another look at the Nintendo Switch. If you remove the Joycon peripherals, it looks pretty much like a tablet and can also be used via touch screen to some degree.
And likewise for a phone you could use 3rd party peripherals that are supported over Bluetooth or even USB.
The difference between the two is expectation. Developers of games for Nintendo Switch expect that each user will have Joy-Con controllers available. Developers of games for Android or iOS cannot make the same assumption. Instead, in order to avoid 1-star reviews from users who misunderstand a game's system requirements, they must compromise each game's design to remain playable when only a touch screen is available. It is also telling that your comment specified that the game controllers are "3rd party per
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I'm just using that as an example, because I do use it for *game development. To make it fit into a bag you'd likely also need a 3rd party bag that was designed to fit both the peripherals and perhaps some standardized tablet or phone size or maybe have some adapter 'padding' that allows smaller devices not being too loose in the bag.
My main point here being that there's theoretically nothing
Phones are terrible for most things (Score:3)
Its simply their form factor that makes them convenient and functionality gets retrofitted into that. When I'm at home I do everything on the laptop, its much easier not least for input.
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Its simply their form factor that makes them convenient and functionality gets retrofitted into that. When I'm at home I do everything on the laptop, its much easier not least for input.
True, I swapped out my 13" tablet for an ultra-light laptop of a similar screen size, far superior when doing any meaningful amount of work.
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phones used to be good for gaming (Score:5, Interesting)
When games were made for phones and were actual games. There's quite a few quite good games out there that really work well, and use what the phone provides.
Then "gaming" companies entered the market. The kind of companies that don't make games anymore, but DLC platforms and micro-transaction addiction delivery systems thinly disguised as games. To save dev money, they ported standard PC controls to the phone, so now two virtual joysticks take up half of the screen, or an inventory bar so tiny that you can barely see anything, or any other of "who the f&*k thought this would work?" moments happened.
The vicious cycle is that too many games are crap, so we want to have games for free because we don't trust them with our money anymore, but free games means that DLCs and micro-transactions are needed to fund the game, which means that the game is then getting optimized to sell DLCs and micro-transactions, not to be a good game. Which manys most of these games are crap and there the cycle starts again.
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The vicious cycle is that too many games are crap, so we want to have games for free because we don't trust them with our money anymore, but free games means that DLCs and micro-transactions are needed to fund the game, which means that the game is then getting optimized to sell DLCs and micro-transactions, not to be a good game. Which manys most of these games are crap and there the cycle starts again.
I'm going to say, in this case, you're very right, yet correlation is not causation. Games are crap: absolutely, but people want free games because people are cheap. $2000 on a gaming rig and you have to pay to win? That's "Prius Math".
Games are crap because they're made by no-one with skin in the game. You don't need to have a wicked engine of your own if you're using a well built one, but you have to offer something new like great, original (not marginally unique) artwork or story concepts that people
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$2000 on a gaming rig and you have to pay to win? That's "Prius Math".
What, it's a reference that makes you look ignorant?
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$2000 on a gaming rig and you have to pay to win? That's "Prius Math".
What, it's a reference that makes you look ignorant?
I typoed and you grammar failed . . . well played sir, well played.
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I typoed and you grammar failed . . . well played sir, well played.
Neither of those things are true
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Games are crap: absolutely, but people want free games because people are cheap.
They've always been cheap, but we used to have different business models before and they used to work. So it's not just that people are cheap.
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Games are crap: absolutely, but people want free games because people are cheap.
They've always been cheap, but we used to have different business models before and they used to work. So it's not just that people are cheap.
Oh, absolutely. What I mean is "free to play" is an enticement for people who are so farking cheap. "pay to win" is a cash cow for these game studios vs. a traditional model. A perfect storm of apathy and greed :(
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In general I've given up on any of the big companies (I'll play Bethesda RPGs and expect to mod the crap out of them, and I'll buy the next Mass Effect game if they make one) and all the games I play come from small or indie companies (Subnautica, Oxygen Not Included, Factorio, etc). I've pretty much come to only expect any creativity from these smaller companies.
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Me pretty much the same. My Steam library and wishlist are full of indie titles, with the occasional big company one. But yes, being small both allows and forces you to be more creative. My own title (Black Forest, on Steam in early access) has been called a unique blend of genres by many reviewers and streamers. I don't think I would've made the same title if I were a big company with a 100 person team that needs to make X revenue to break even.
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phones used to be good for gaming
I'm going to correct you and say "sometimes are". I don't recall any phone gaming glory days!
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Depends on what you find amusing: https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]
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No, glory days certainly not. But the early iPhone had a number of really cool games exploring new input methods and new game principles, designed specifically for this new device.
In other news (Score:2)
Cloud is Terrible for Gaming.
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Cloud is terrible for gaming.
Cellphones are terrible for gaming.
I have a great idea. Let's combine that.
Who the fuck said that, and why does he still have a job?
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-gaming x -gaming = +gaming
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Cloud is Terrible for Gaming.
i agree, but maybe it depends on the game. junethack just finished and one can argue that is a Cloud Game Tournament that started before the "Cloud". No issues playing, and went very well (on a laptop).
Me, I think the main issues with phones are due to the screen size and keyboard issues.
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Could is Terrible. FULL STOP!
You misunderstood (Score:2)
It's for playing ON the job, not during breaks.
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Your boss does not provide a computer? What kind of job do you have where you don't have a computer but still post on /.?
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Toilet seat tester.
Addiction. (Score:2)
Phones are certainly not gaming systems. An Atari joystick seemed to provide more control, and that's not just some salty greybeard talking. Even XBox/PS controllers struggle against decades-old mouse-and-keyboard gaming.
Phones are also not HDTVs. As if there's a point in watching a 4K movie on a 4" screen, I'm sure we'll market 8K movies on that same 4" screen soon, as the director facepalms and wonders why they even bothered with expensive film cameras. Millions of people out there will actually enjoy
Also (Score:2)
The cloud is terrible for gaming.
Yes but (Score:2)
dedicated gaming hardware is good! The Swiss Army knife approach to mobile gaming promised by cloud gaming on your phone is about as useful as the saw on a real Swiss Army knife. I appreciate the effort, but I don't actually want to use it.
That may be true, but good luck hauling that gaming rig onboard the bus and having a play while you're commuting home.
I feel the guy is missing the point.
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It's quite a good analogy. I've used the saw on a Victorinox knife to trim a branch down to the right size for whittling a replacement for a plastic part that broke in a mosquito net holder. There are definitely better saws for the job, but when you only have a multitool you have to make do with the multitool.
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Good luck with keeping solid connectivity on the moving bus.
It's not the phone that's bad. It's the idea. (Score:2)
I was going to write here why Cloud Gaming in general is a terrible idea but it looks like someone put my points-to-be across in a nicer way that I would already:
https://www.quora.com/What-are... [quora.com]
Nice keyhole saw (Score:2)
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Yeah, I get the feeling that the person writing the review doesn't do a lot of camping. For what it is, the saw on the swiss army knife is really good.
May as well criticize the screw driver, scissors or even the knife on the SAK... the whole point is that you have all the tools in one place that you can fold and put in your pocket. To say that any of the utilities are not as good as the specialized device it is replacing is missing the point of a SAK.
so many other things to do (Score:2)
But, perhaps, don't bother. Read a book or ebook. See if you can have a meaningful discussion instead. Etc.
obviously (Score:2)
"The promise of cloud gaming is ..." a lie.
Not all promises are true.
MOST promises by marketers are lies. These are the same crew that told us 3d tv was the next big thing, and tell us today that we really need to upgrade to 8k tv's.
I mean yes, certainly, on CAN game quite fine on a phone given today's cpus, small screen quality, and connectivity.
But it will ALWAYS be inferior to peer level wired, immobile tech. Always.
new to gaming on the go? (Score:2)
Is this person new to gaming on the go?
We had devices like the SteamDeck a long time already, it's nothing new. Yeah the screens got bigger due to technology advancing, but in reality it's nothing different from a gameboy or playstion portable.
And phones can be good for certain type of games, just like the SteamDeck is also crap for certain type of games.
And Cloudgaming really hasn't got anything special to do with SteamDeck or mobile phones, it's just as valid on PC's or even consoles.
Because Valve is not Nintendo or Sony (Score:2)
We had devices like the SteamDeck a long time already, it's nothing new. Yeah the screens got bigger due to technology advancing, but in reality it's nothing different from a gameboy or playstion portable.
The difference between a Steam Deck and a Game Boy or PlayStation product is that Valve isn't asserting copyright against jailbreakers and amateur or startup developers the way the makers of the Game Boy and PlayStation did when suing Lik Sang out of existence.
Re: Because Valve is not Nintendo or Sony (Score:2)
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I assume you're thinking of things like GPD Win and JXD's Android gaming tablets with buttons. The biggest difference I can think of between those devices and Steam Deck is that a game publisher is taking effort to market them to customers in the United States. In addition, a device that runs a desktop OS (be it Windows or Linux) attracts games that don't have their design compromised to accommodate devices with only a touch screen, as is the case for an Android gaming tablet.
Matbe teh approach is wrong (Score:1)
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People don't want to fuck with controllers, cables, etc. Your proposed device will be janky if not designed for a specific phone. And if it is for a specific phone, then it will have to be thrown away when no longer in use. It is not only a bad idea, it's been tried before and failed.
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That idea keeps popping up at intervals, though not successfully, both because phones that aren't worrying about battery drain can pack some genuinely punchy hardware; and because moving user state between systems remains an imperfectly solved problem and kind of a hassle at best; so dodging that problem is attractive.
With 'cloud' applications, though, the client hardw
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People don't want to fuck with controllers, cables, etc. They already do with consoles and computers. Your proposed device will be janky if not designed for a specific phone. It would need to be device specific.
Apple could, for example, build a dock connector just like they do for the magic keyboard and sell it. I doubt that ever happens, however; I suspect if phones ever replace consoles and PCs as casual gaming devices it'll be all wireless.
And if it is for a specific phone, then it will have to be thrown away when no longer in use. It is not only a bad idea, it's been tried before and failed.
I hear ya; but tried and failed because the technology couldn't provide a good experience is different from it failed because it was a bad idea. As chips get better I would not be surprised if phones and TV boxes replace consoles as gaming devices. Apple could, for examp
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One problem is that the USB-C port is in different places. Another is that devices are different sizes. And then there's also phone cases, which are basically mandatory now because phones are so fragile. So you will need a cable as you can't just dock the phone to the device, and you will also need some way for the device to wrap around different sizes of device. And that makes it janky, because it will only really be a good fit for some devices, and it has a cable sticking out someplace.
It fundamentally do
How odd... (Score:3)
Why is the word "cloud" in the title?
Wait that's the problem??? (Score:2)
Cloud gaming drains the phone's battery quickly, which means you can and will be feeling the battery anxiety.
In the summary this is the only complaint listed - if that's the primary downside, get an external phone charger and problem solved!
The other major issue actually mentioned in the article is controls - but that's not actually an issue, because you can attach an Xbox controller to the phone now (though admittedly I've not tried doing so with cloud gaming services).
Yes it adds a little bulk but if you
poster should be banned (Score:1)