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Games

Magnus Carlsen Resigns After One Move In Chess Rematch With Hans Niemann (chessdom.com) 87

Posted by BeauHD from the protest-moves dept.
In a rematch today against 19-year-old Hans Niemann, World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen resigned his game in the second move and quickly went offline. Susan Polgar commented on Carlsen's resignation against Niemann saying it's: "Definitely a protest move!", while GM Jon Ludvig Hammer said Carlsen should be sanctioned during the live Norwegian TV program.

The chess world has been in chaos ever since Carlsen dropped out from a prestigious tournament following a stunning loss, which ignited suspicions of foul play.

Chessdom has included a "timetable of happenings" related to Niemann in their report.
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Magnus Carlsen Resigns After One Move In Chess Rematch With Hans Niemann More

Magnus Carlsen Resigns After One Move In Chess Rematch With Hans Niemann

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  • Scared Stiff (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:26PM (#62895773)

    He can't play because if he loses he looks stupid.

    However, this violates the sportsmanship rules, and ironically throwing a game is a form of cheating! Even other Norwegian players are calling for him to be sanctioned.

    • Re:Scared Stiff (Score:4, Funny)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:37PM (#62895829)

      He can't play because if he loses he looks stupid.

      Yes, you're right. He looks soooo much more intelligent with this move instead.

      A true professional competitor.

      /sarcasm

    • True.

      Though I have to admit my first thought actually something like a fair play gesture, to give a point back to your opponent if you think that he lost it due to bad luck (i.e. being falsely accused of cheating)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I do not care much about chess, but this has implication for any mental task where automation code running on computers competes with human minds and in addition, humans compete against each other. In the case at hand, if he cheated, Niemann will eventually be found out because if that case he has to continue cheating to not suddenly be massive worse at the game, at least against Carlsen. If he did not cheat, the accusation of cheating is an obvious one of a

    • Why would he agree to a rematch then? He would have been better off not agreeing to it.
      • This was part of a tournament that he probably had a contractual obligation to compete in, dating back before the previous incident. Its also a different format, which may make a difference to him. Magnus is very concerned about his classical rating right now - not so much about his blitz or rapid rating

    • They could resolve this easily: Get both players in the same room after being thoroughly scanned (MRI, X-ray, sonogram, etc) and then have them play multiple games. The results will speak for themselves. Carlsen can then be legitimately sanctioned for throwing or the other guy can be banned from professional chess forever.

      • Carlsen already threw the game, though. None of that is needed.

        Carlsen wouldn't agree to that match, Niemann has already offered to play under those conditions.

      • None of that proves whether or not Niemann somehow cheated in his first game with Carlson. Just because Niemann beat him once, doesn't mean he'd be able to do so again.

        It was reported that the game in question wasn't especially exceptional and that Carlson himself didn't play his best. And that game was played OTB (in person).

        What's added smoke to the fire are revelations about Niemann's past, and the anomaly that he plays markedly better in games that a streamed live. But non of that in itself can be used

    • Maybe all he needed was to get Niemann to take to the floor again. To surveille him?

  • All they need now (Score:3)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:26PM (#62895781)
    is some folding chairs set up nearby to hit each other with so they can settle it like real men [kayfabenews.com].

  • Whiny Little Bitch (Score:5, Funny)

    by registrations_suck ( 1075251 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:30PM (#62895799)

    His favourite piece is the Drama Queen.

  • Again... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pyrognat ( 233814 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:38PM (#62895833)

    Ok, we're at it again. Even though it's been a few weeks since the drama began, we still don't know much. But remember, one thing that we do know for certain is that Hans Niemann has cheated before. I think that this is worth keeping in mind as we lambast Carlsen.

    • Ok, we're at it again. Even though it's been a few weeks since the drama began, we still don't know much. But remember, one thing that we do know for certain is that Hans Niemann has cheated before. I think that this is worth keeping in mind as we lambast Carlsen.

      Well, of course... Carlsen is *so* good, he can detect Niemann cheating at the just second move of the game! :-)

    • So what is the theory here, that Niemann found a chess master greater than Carlsen (where?) to feed him a winning move remotely? Yes Niemann have confessed to cheat back when he was 16 but claims to have changed his life around since then, yes that is only 3 years but 3 years is quite a lot when you are 16. The most likely scenario is that Carlsen took him for granted and did a weak opening (game analysis shows that he made several mistakes in that game) and that Niemann simply had a fluke, that fluke might

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by skam240 ( 789197 )

        So what is the theory here, that Niemann found a chess master greater than Carlsen (where?) to feed him a winning move remotely?

        No, it's that someone was feeding the game into a chess computer and then somehow signaling the results to the player.

        • And how many of those can beat Carlsen?

          • All of them, computers have been able to beat all human chess players at the highest levels for some time now. The first was Deep Blue [wikipedia.org] which beat Garry Kasparov in 1997. Since then both software and hardware have improved leaps and bounds and every chess player has the ability, theoretically, to carry a device far more capable than Deep Blue in their pocket.

            Chess is also a very easy to game to encode [wikipedia.org]. Players think and communicate in terms of notation and so signalling moves whether human to human or human

            • ok so one way to end this whole question quickly would then be to run Carlsens moves against a bunch of popular chess programs and see if any of them outputs the very moves that Niemann did. Now perhaps there exists millions of capable enough chess programs that all produces different output?!

              • Well, unfortunately there are complications with this idea.

                First, Carlsen hasn't actually directly accused Niemann of cheating against any particular person during in any particular game. In order to run that experiment we would a specific game that Niemann has been accused of cheating during.

                Secondly is the fact that a chess engine doesn't have to be used to play the entire game. You can use it to give you the best move on any given turn. This means that cheating doesn't have to mean that you had the human

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by skam240 ( 789197 )

            Pretty much what the other poster replying to you said. There have probably been a dozen or more articles on Slashdot over the years about computers over taking humans at chess. Now that it's old news I suppose it doesnt come up much anymore though.

      • So what is the theory here, that Niemann found a chess master greater than Carlsen (where?) to feed him a winning move remotely?

        It's almost as if you've never heard of computers.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          He's just a Slashdotter of a certain age. He remembers that a computer that could beat the best chess players is an AI problem, but he's heard on good authority here that AI doesn't exist, so clearly a computer that can beat the best chess players doesn't exist.

          Wait until he hears what happened to Go.

          • He's just a Slashdotter.

          • So your theory is that Niemann somehow have access to a systems as capable as Deep Blue was?

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              Lol, yes. Deep Blue was rated about 2700. You can just go download a modern open source chess engine with a rating of 3500+ and run it on your PC. Or phone.

              • ok, and I assume here that people already have input Carlsens moves into stockfish to get back the exact moves that Niemann did and thus get actual evidence of him cheating?

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

                  There are a bunch of similar chess playing programs, but the cheating probably isn't that blatant. It's tough to recognize something like "Be5" transmitted through a set of anal beads. As others have noted in these comments, in high level chess a signal that means "be careful on this move" would give a decent player a pretty big advantage.

                  • on the other hand would not every single move by a grand master like Carlsen be "be careful of this move" :-)

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

                      Chess was too boring so they introduced time clocks. Each player gets the same total amount of time to play so you want to make most moves very quickly to save clock time for the ones that need more thought.

        • And how many of those can beat Carlsen? It's not like Deep Blue was a RaspBerry Pi and beat Kasparov without being tailored for his playstyle specifically for decades.

  • ...pitching a continuation of his TV series Robin

    Rumour has it that even Radiohead will do some of the music, and a cameo in the show too

    PS: joke alert

  • Color me not surprised - a world class chess player with mental/emotional issues?

    That's not surprising at all.

  • But it seems the chessdom site is having some serious capacity issues.

  • for stoking popular interest in chess. In quote from an article from a 1990's chess magazine, Bobby Fisher, who for many years thought that the game is flawed because it relies too much on rote memorization, compared professional chess to professional wrestling, and suggested that many of the matches were fixed. I can't give an opinion on this, because I'm not that good at chess.
    • In Fischers era many tournaments had shenanigans, and there was a well known organized effort to wear him down.

      Fischer understood very well that publicity brings prize money. He went out of his way to cause drama because every newpaper article was an increase in the potential of prize pools. Before Bobby, nobody got rich playing chess. Nobody at all.

  • if you know what I mean 8^D

  • I played against the badass chess player who was rated around 2000 and beat him ... dude got a literal nosebleed over losing to an unrated player. Of course that win in-turn made me think I too was a badass -- maybe some kind of prodigy .. so I went on internet chess server (this was in the 1990s btw, well before chess.com) and lost every game I played. Conclusion .. chess sucks.

    • I can regularly and reliably win against the chess.com 1400 computer model.
      I will lose very time against a human 1400. On lichess, where I played humans more I'm around 1000.

      Computer models and snowflake 2000s will lead you astray.

  • That ego needs a bit of pruning (Score:4)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @04:20PM (#62895991)

    I agree. Kick him out 'til he learned to act like a grownup.

  • just bizarre (Score:3)

    by retchdog ( 1319261 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @06:32PM (#62896483) Journal

    Honestly I'm starting to suspect that the best explanation is that Magnus Carlsen is looking to retire (or maybe just a payday) and this is all some kind of kayfabe stunt to draw in a big burst of publicity for a last sip at the $$$, or the start of some pageantry where he hands over his position. And yes, this is after reading/watching the commentary and meta-commentary.

    If you really believe that world chess grandmasters are dumber than the WWE, go right ahead, but at the end of the day publicity+advertising pays the bill for any sport and, imho, the chess people have figured that out...

    • Honestly I'm starting to suspect that the best explanation is that Magnus Carlsen is looking to retire (or maybe just a payday) and this is all some kind of kayfabe stunt to draw in a big burst of publicity for a last sip at the $$$, or the start of some pageantry where he hands over his position. And yes, this is after reading/watching the commentary and meta-commentary.

      If you really believe that world chess grandmasters are dumber than the WWE, go right ahead, but at the end of the day publicity+advertising pays the bill for any sport and, imho, the chess people have figured that out...

      The other explanation is that Niemann has a history of cheating in online chess, probably more than he has admitted to [twitter.com] and there's some very suspicious patterns in his tournament play [twitter.com].

      In general, when you have an activity where cheating is high reward and hard to detect you need really strong penalties to deter cheating else it becomes endemic. That's why lawyers are actually fairly incorruptible (since the costs of destroying their reputation can be career ending) while rich folks cheat like crazy on their

  • I am currently with Carlson, being a cycling fan that suffered through years of lying and cheating which is extremely difficult to prove. While I don't think Niemann cheated across the table, the thought of it has completely distracted Carlson who is unable to play to the best of his ability as a result.

    You have to understand that to Carlson chess is everything and the thought of someone gaining advantage through cheating is completely abhorrent to him I don't think he will be able to reconcile with anyone

  • Real men play Kung Fu Chess. (Score:3)

    by ihaveamo ( 989662 ) on Monday September 19, 2022 @10:45PM (#62896943)
    https://www.kfchess.com/ [kfchess.com]

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