Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Classic Games (Games)

Did 'Donkey Kong' Champ Use a Banned Joystick for His 2007 World Record? (arstechnica.com) 87

Posted by EditorDavid from the always-having-a-plan dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report from Ars Technica: Over the years, King of Kong star Billy Mitchell has seen his world-record Donkey Kong scores stripped, partially reinstated, and endlessly litigated, both in actual court and the court of public opinion. Through it all, Mitchell has insisted that every one of his records was set on unmodified Donkey Kong arcade hardware, despite some convincing technical evidence to the contrary.

Now, new photos from a 2007 performance by Mitchell seem to show obvious modifications to the machine used to earn at least one of those scores, a fascinating new piece of evidence in the long, contentious battle over Mitchell's place in Donkey Kong score-chasing history.

The photos in question were taken at the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers (FAMB) Convention, which hosted Mitchell as part of its "80s Arcade Night" promotion in July 2007. Mitchell claims to have achieved a score of 1,050,200 points at that event, a performance that was recognized by adjudicator Twin Galaxies as a world record at the time (but which by now would barely crack the top 30). In his defamation case against Twin Galaxies, Mitchell includes testimony from several purported witnesses to his FAMB performance. That includes former Twin Galaxies referee Todd Rogers (who was later also banned from Twin Galaxies), who testified that the machine used at the event was "an original Nintendo Donkey Kong Arcade machine as I have known since 1981."

But the pictures from the FAMB convention, made public by fellow high-score-chaser David Race last month, raise additional questions about that claim, thanks to what Race calls a "glaringly non-original joystick" seen in the machine shown in those photos.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Did 'Donkey Kong' Champ Use a Banned Joystick for His 2007 World Record? More

Did 'Donkey Kong' Champ Use a Banned Joystick for His 2007 World Record?

Comments Filter:

  • Wow (Score:4, Funny)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Sunday February 05, 2023 @10:43PM (#63268007)
    The Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers Convention, sounds like a hotbed of deceit to me. Throw the book at him!

  • If you're wondering about 8-directional joysticks (Score:5, Informative)

    by kriston ( 7886 ) on Sunday February 05, 2023 @10:45PM (#63268013) Homepage Journal

    If you're wondering about 8-directional joysticks and how they matter to Donkey Kong and other four-directional games, the diagonal position allows one to more easily and much more quickly climb ladders in Donkey Kong and turn corners in Pac-Man.

    It matters.

    But then nobody's saying anything about Wiebe's use of a Donkey Kong Junior cabinet with a Donkey Kong motherboard retrofitted into it, so both claims are suspect. They should both be thrown out.

    Then there's Mitchell's obvious tampering of a VHS tape he submitted in abscentia at an earlier record attempt. And, in another recorded record attempt, Mitchell's obvious use of MAME instead of real hardware.

    • I recall from my time in the 80's playing the original Donkey Kong, that the motion of the joystick, even though it was a 4-way stick, which means it only had 4 switches - one each at the cardinal points, was limited by the shape of the hole in the control panel for the stick. The hole was not a circle, but rather a PLUS "+" to limit the motion of the stick in the 4 cardinal directions. You couldn't see this "+" because the stick had a plastic collar on it that would cover the hole, and move with the stick

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kriston ( 7886 )

        Yes. The joystick in the picture presented in this article is an eight-way stick without the "plus" shaped hole.

        • is the 4 way plate installed or not? can't tell from the pic

          • The restrictor plates in the joysticks are installed in the bottom of the joystick assembly and therefor not visible from the outside. Fourway restrictor plate [arcadeshop.com]

            Here is a DK arcade cabinet restoration video with the fourway restrictor plate visible. DK restoration [youtube.com]

            Interesting information about Nintendo DK joysticks. At time 0:58 you can see the original microswitch arrangement, although this joystick has an eightway restrictor plate. Arcade Joysticks [youtube.com]

            • Are you sure it was a microswitch joystick? Almost all of the sticks from the era were leaf switch. Microswitches came later.

              • I'm definitely not an expert on the subject so I was referencing the images in the video as my source. However, after watching the last video I searched for the source document the author seemed to be referring to and found this repair part listing that says it is an original joystick used in DK, DKjr, and Popeye consoles.

                https://mikesarcade.com/cgi-bi... [mikesarcade.com]

                This seems to agree with the joystick shown on the archadeshop page, just below the fourway restrictor plate. There is a link to a replacement joystick fo

                • The top of the sticks look the same. The difference is the bottom of the joystick inside the cabinet where it doesn't show.

                  It's far from unusual to replace leaf switch joysticks with microswitch joysticks when restoring a machine. They're far more reliable -- they work and work consistently until they break while leaf switches require regular adjustment. Game play slides a bit as they lose tuning, sort of like a musical instrument.

                  The thing is, in 1981 it was really really hard to make a microswitch that co

    • How much money are we talking about again?

      That is why none of this matters and nobody actually cares. It was always a gimme. It required the "cheating" and theatrics for there to be a "career" to begin with. Somebody better set a record when you are holding the first ever record setting event, yes?

      If the first time was bullshit, then every time is bullshit. Why would it ever be left to chance?

      Viewing it as theater, like "pro-wrestling" which was also big at the time, puts new light on it. Theater isnt

      • How much money are we talking about again?

        That is why none of this matters and nobody actually cares.

        Billy Mitchell and others are suing people for defamation for saying they cheated.

        That's why it matters. People who were caught out cheating are basically rich enough to spend it on lawsuits that are impacting regular people and costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

        It shouldn't be a surprise the lot of them are suing in jurisdictions where there are weak to none anti-SLAPP laws.

        Basically, it only really matters because some rich people got caught out in a lie and those people started suing everyone forcing them to defend themselves in pointless lawsuits meant to basically exhaust your money.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Potor ( 658520 )

      It matters.

      That's the funniest comment I've ever seen on /.

    • If you're wondering about 8-directional joysticks and how they matter to Donkey Kong...

      I think most of us are wondering why Donkey Kong still matters, and or at least why matters this much to some people. I don't think they have this much trouble at the world marbles or tiddlywinks championships.

    • It's actually much harder to play pac-man with an 8-way stick.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's interesting (to me at least) that the issue here is mechanical. The games don't glitch, it's just physically easier to move the joystick round when turning. I actually find it harder on Pacman, and prefer a 4 way gate, but I'm sure pro players can adapt to it.

      More recently people have been using joysticks without an actual joystick for fighting games like Street Fighter. Instead of a joystick they have 4 buttons for each of up, down, left, and right. Some games just break if you push both forwards and

    • It's not just that. Donkey Kong's barrels read player input as well as the current player state. With stock hardware you can either send a directional input to control what a barrel will do or you can climb a ladder, but not both at the same time. Using an 8-way joystick allows you to do both simultaneously.

    • If you're wondering about 8-directional joysticks and how they matter to Donkey Kong and other four-directional games, the diagonal position allows one to more easily and much more quickly climb ladders in Donkey Kong and turn corners in Pac-Man.

      It often matters in the reverse, too. An 8-way joystick is detrimental to some games designed for 4-way. The ones designed for 4-way often don't expect to see two directions active at once, so one direction always wins out over the other one. Say you're playing a

  • Will this story ever end?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by quall ( 1441799 )

      Yes, because the only 2 records in question were now shown to have been made using unofficial and banned hardware. So it should finally be over.

      An image from the event in question had the arcade machine, Billy Mitchel, and his collaborator all within the same photo. This disqualified the record performed at this event because the photo SHOWS banned hardware installed. Billy has stated over the years that his second record was made on the EXACT same arcade machine numerous times (with witness proof), meaning

  • Who cares. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by aergern ( 127031 )

    16 years ago. SMH.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "Who cares" is a phrase (normally it's a question, though) commonly uttered by those who are embarrassed by their past.

    • 16 years ago. SMH.

      Would you care if we told you that the record was set on Hunter Biden's laptop? I mean is that the Slashdot content you're so desperate to get back to?

    • Nobody would care if it happened yesterday.

    • Who cares

      The people interested in this story/talking about it, duh. (And those who have to face Mitchell's lawyers, since he is suing people for defamation for saying he cheated.)

      • I'd issue a statement saying Mitchell is the undisputed King of Donkey Kong if it meant I never had to see or talk to him again.

  • I'm annoyed I even recognize this dude's name.

    • I'm annoyed I even recognize this dude's name.

      Everyone recognizes Hitler's name, too. At least he isn't so notorious that we know his middle name, like all of the infamous serial killers, yet.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kriston ( 7886 )

      I tried to buy his hot sauce. It's been out of stock for something like a decade now.

  • So under TG rules no repairs allowed at all?
    But what where the rules at the time of the score? vs after vs today?

  • But he did have an direct feed so that mod was allowed. Also billy has said many times that he is not an arcade tech so he had others give him / setup the hardware. So when he some one who set up the game at the event say it good an ready to go that is not lying to the judge.

    • He probably wasn't lying to the judge but if he used the 8-way pad, the record is still not legitimate.

    • Also billy has said many times that he is not an arcade tech so he had others give him / setup the hardware.

      In his latest lawsuit, Mitchell submitted sworn statements to the court that he used original hardware for the record. As Mitchell has played a lot of Donkey Kong, it is more likely that he did not notice obvious changes to the arcade machine or he more likely he knew he exactly what the changes were.

  • You need OCD to care about this. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Eunomion ( 8640039 ) on Sunday February 05, 2023 @11:22PM (#63268087)
    Donkey Kong was always a shitty and joyless game, and its place in history only comes from having some firsts.

    • I'm glad we could get someone with a UID nearly scraping the 8 digit mark to tell us all that Slashdotters including the content that used to be covered quite regularly on this site shouldn't care about this. Thanks for your completely pointless input. Now pack your bags or you'll be late for the schoolbus.

      • I'm flattered that you think I'm young, but the fact is Donkey Kong just sucks. It was superseded within fucking months.

        • I'm flattered that you think I'm young, but the fact is Donkey Kong just sucks. It was superseded within fucking months.

          I'm curious what games you think superseded it within months of release? It came out in 1981 so I'd be curious what other 1981 games you think that are in the same genre that are better.

          • Frogger was at about the same time. Pac Man and Missile Command were even earlier than Donkey Kong.

        • I'm flattered that you think I'm young

          Oh I don't think you're young. I'm making a comment purely about your maturity, not your age.

  • good luck finding any 30+ year old arcade on 100% original hardware.

    and what about tokens vs coins vs card system vs free play button or is that not counted as an hardware change?

    • Re:good luck find any 30+ year 100% original hardw (Score:4, Informative)

      by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @12:14AM (#63268159)
      The hardware does not have to be 100% original. It just needs to be to the original specs. i.e. you can't modify the joystick, the joystick hole or the board or use MAME to alter its operation from the original if you want to set a record. Not sure why some people find this so difficult a concept to understand.

      • direct feed mod was ok and refs gave it an ok. so they must of looked at the joystick and give it an ok as well.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by nagora ( 177841 )

        The hardware does not have to be 100% original. It just needs to be to the original specs. i.e. you can't modify the joystick, the joystick hole or the board or use MAME to alter its operation from the original if you want to set a record. Not sure why some people find this so difficult a concept to understand.

        If the original hardware is not available, so you can't set a record for it now; it's too late. Not sure why some people find this so difficult a concept to understand nor why they care.

  • Was every top player bringing his own arcade cabinet to the convention?

    • Billy Mitchell and his Donkey Kong skills were an advertised draw for this mortgage convention. Doing these things was how he made a living for decades.

  • any credit to Karl Jobst for the story? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Vomitgod ( 6659552 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:03AM (#63268225)

    Karl Jobst did a video on YouTube a week ago...
    good to see his hard work acknowledged....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Entertaining Acrimony (Score:5, Informative)

    by sursurrus ( 796632 ) on Monday February 06, 2023 @01:32AM (#63268283)

    youtuber Karl Jobst has been covering this for what feels like years.

    Apparently Mitchell is the heir to a hot sauce fortune and has been using his funds to sue everyone in sight for defamation

    Even stranger, Todd Rogers, the banned referee mentioned in TFA, has his own 80's era world record in a racing game that various 'experts' agree is impossible. He too is suing various people who have accused him of cheating.

    At the end of the day, I find entertainment in the disgust I feel for these people, much like I did with Jerry Springer.

    -If our civilization collapses, this whole sordid saga will be evidence that it was rotten to the core

    • There are so many records that are/were fake. If you played the games, some of the scores were outlandish and would have taken days of constant play to achieve. I held a couple of records but all of mine were set in local arcades with lots of people watching. But then you look at stuff like Defender where the high score was like 75 million. Thats a legit 75 hour game there if someone could pull it off. All you had to do to submit a record back then was call them, they send you a form, you play the game and

      • These days records have to have video. There is still a TON of cheating, it's just gotten more sophisticated with Tool assists, splicing, etc. Karl Jobst is a good one to watch if you're interested in cheating, specifically, because he covers controversy in serious detail.

        Summoning Salt is fantastic for covering the entire history of a single game (generally speedruns).

        I think this whole notion of World Records in a video game is sick and twisted in practice. I'm sure it was a lot of fun and a big accomp

  • Whose joystick was he yanking? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Come on, this fraud has been caught so many times he should be Republican Speaker of the House.

  • Tom Brady cheating on football was less obnoxious than this.

  • Who the hell cares?

  • I saw this story when it broke on Jobst's YouTube channel, and everyone who reacted to it went into full schadenfreude mode and assumed that it was enough evidence to sink Mitchell on its own.

    but I think it'll come down to whether they can prove, or at least strongly support, that the replacement joystick was an 8-way. If his lawyers can convince the court that it was a 4-way, then Mitchell can claim it as an acceptable in-kind replacement part used in routine repairs, even if the shape was different.

    This

  • It's not on like Donkey Kong?

Slashdot Top Deals

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

Close