Roblox Executive Says Children Making Money On the Platform Isn't Exploitation, It's a Gift (eurogamer.net) 60
In an interview with Roblox Studio head Stefano Corazza, Eurogamer asked about the reputation Roblox has gained and the notion that it was exploitative of young developers, since it takes a cut from work sometimes produced by children. Here's what he had to say: "I don't know, you can say this for a lot of things, right?" Corazza said. "Like, you can say, 'Okay, we are exploiting, you know, child labour,' right? Or, you can say: we are offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job, and even like an income. So, I can be like 15 years old, in Indonesia, living in a slum, and then now, with just a laptop, I can create something, make money and then sustain my life. "There's always the flip side of that, when you go broad and democratized - and in this case, also with a younger audience," he continued. "I mean, our average game developer is in their 20s. But of course, there's people that are teenagers -- and we have hired some teenagers that had millions of players on the platform.
"For them, you know, hearing from their experience, they didn't feel like they were exploited! They felt like, 'Oh my god, this was the biggest gift, all of a sudden I could create something, I had millions of users, I made so much money I could retire.' So I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year to creators, which is now getting close to like a billion dollars, which is phenomenal."
At this point the PR present during the interview added that "the vast majority of people that are earning money on Roblox are over the age of 18." "And imagine like, the millions of kids that learn how to code every month," Corazza said. "We have millions of creators in Roblox Studio. They learn Lua scripting," a programming language, "which is pretty close to Python - you can get a job in the tech industry in the future, and be like, 'Hey, I'm a programmer,' right? "I think that we are really focusing on the learning - the curriculum, if you want - and really bringing people on and empowering them to be professionals."
"For them, you know, hearing from their experience, they didn't feel like they were exploited! They felt like, 'Oh my god, this was the biggest gift, all of a sudden I could create something, I had millions of users, I made so much money I could retire.' So I focus more on the amount of money that we distribute every year to creators, which is now getting close to like a billion dollars, which is phenomenal."
At this point the PR present during the interview added that "the vast majority of people that are earning money on Roblox are over the age of 18." "And imagine like, the millions of kids that learn how to code every month," Corazza said. "We have millions of creators in Roblox Studio. They learn Lua scripting," a programming language, "which is pretty close to Python - you can get a job in the tech industry in the future, and be like, 'Hey, I'm a programmer,' right? "I think that we are really focusing on the learning - the curriculum, if you want - and really bringing people on and empowering them to be professionals."
Actually... (Score:1, Interesting)
Children shouldn't be exposed to the capitalistic system so early. It mechanizes their minds and makes it harder for them to imagine a world apart from exchange when they grow up.
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Re:Actually... (Score:5, Informative)
In my country, the age threshold for earning income is 15 years. That would seem reasonable to me at least.
In the USA, much younger children can make money running lemonade stands (ie. a table) in their front yards, shoveling snow for neighbors, and other such entrepreneurial endeavors.
As far as "real jobs" go, kids under 14 are legally allowed to babysit, deliver newspapers, be a professional actor (TV, film, radio, theatre), or work for a company owned entirely by your parents (typically retail, restaurant, farm). One more legally allowed profession is: "work as a homeworker gathering evergreens and making evergreen wreaths" which sounds positively Dickensonian.
Children who are older (15) can have arbitrary jobs, but it requires getting a Work Permit, with restrictions on the number of hours and schedule. This is also the age when you can get a driver's license (only for personal use though).
So in the USA, a nine year old can be employed making wreaths out of evergreens boughs they gather. I now refer you to this swingin' Bobby Darin tune [youtube.com].
Source: U.S. Department Of Labor [dol.gov]
Will someone please think of the children! (Score:5, Funny)
Also comic books, radio, television, video games, and social media. They should only read poetry and play with unsharpened sticks.
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play with unsharpened sticks
Fuck that. It wasn't fun until someone bled.
Re:Actually... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit. How the fuck are you going to shield children from capitalism?
I threw papers at a young age. I still have a vivid imagination. That imagination pays me nothing while my capitalistic venture did.
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There are multiple reasons why most developed societies shield children from capitalism to some degree. That includes things like limiting them to only very specific, part time jobs like newspaper delivery, restricting advertising aimed at children, and even removing products aimed at children from checkout areas where they end up waiting.
One of the major reasons is that children's minds are not as developed as adult's, so what an adult might reasonably understand to be an ad, or to be marketing wank, can s
Re: Actually... (Score:4, Informative)
Children are exposed to the capitalist system whenever you allow them to handle currency and buy food, candy, toys...
There are three big reasons most countries restrict child labor:
- Prevent exploitation of minors by employers, since they are not in a position to understand or negotiate terms of employment - or to resist authority figures (e.g. parents) pressuring them into involuntary contract.
- Prevent parents from interrupting child education for short-term economic incentives - which is a concern for the State long-term economic strategy
- Prevent employers from leveraging minors as cheap labor to depress wages - which is a big enough concern for Labor to exercise political pressure on the State to restrict that
I've never heard "exposing immature minds to the capitalist system" used as a reason, and this includes countries injecting "anti-imperialist" rhetoric on everything. For that matter, the few governments that could use that argument with a straight face seem to have a history with exploiting unpaid child labor (e.g. North Korea)
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
There's a matter of degrees. And a difference between passive observer and active participant.
What's more important than capitalism and exchange are basic social skills, empathy, and cooperation within a community. Concepts that children have learned long before capitalism existed.
We don't need to push adult concept onto children at an early age. That will learn those when the time is right and they are able to fully understand their purpose.
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That assumes they will make money on the platform (they won't).
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Yeah it's better they are exposed to socialism wherein they expect to be given things and see themselves as entitled victims.
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Can't say I've met any people who escaped socialist countries acting as entitled victims. That whiny "I must get mine" is an American thing. Speaking as a red-blooded Gen-X American, this is how the boomers screwed us. They built a socialist safety net for them (Social Security) while trying to kill it for any other generation even though WE PAY INTO IT. I've maxed my social security yearly for the past 15 years and I'm pretty sure I'll never see a dime at this point.
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
Because that is end stage socialism (aka communism). The people going into socialist frameworks indeed all expected free stuff for nothing (see Berlin before the National Socialist took over, Moscow before Lenin took over, Havana before Castro took over etc) there was massive debauchery and hedonism by young people in the middle and upper class and being disillusioned by the accomplishments of their parents (which made them comparatively rich) instated governments to solve their problems.
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this is how the boomers screwed us. They built a socialist safety net for them (Social Security)
I was this many years old when I learned that a generation that started with births in 1946 is responsible for the creation of Social Security in 1935. It would be helpful if you could amplify on the above and let me know which time machine they used? Was it Doc and Marty's, did they hijack the phone booth from Bill and Ted (though I've gotta tell you, that would be more of a Gen-X move rather than Boomers), or did they go the long way using Professor Farnsworth's one-way machine?
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Why would capitalism mechanize your brain? You learn quick that you have to offer something of value to get something of value.
It makes you think about what can I do, to provide something someone wants enough to give me what I want. You learn to per-negotiate in your head.
Trade goes back to the beginning of civi
Re: Actually... (Score:2)
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> Children shouldn't be exposed to the capitalistic system so early. It mechanizes their minds and makes it harder for them to imagine a world apart from exchange when they grow up.
The entire world runs like this, and isn't likely to change any time soon. Additionally I personally don't see an issue with children learning to earn money as they grow up (like they did with the lemonade stand) - I prefer that to having 20 year olds thinking their parents are an endless source of cash.
Kids need to go from z
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I'll admit, my childhood was such that my mind can not imagine a world apart from exchange. However, I am curious to know a little bit more about this alternate world that I truly can't imagine.
Well, I can imagine a lot, but so far my schemes don't play out very far. I'm struggling to find a pleasant scenario (for everyone involved) that would truly function.
Maybe if I had some clues I could eventually work it out on my own. Below I have listed a few of my sticking points.
- Is this non-exchange w
A laptop in a slum? (Score:4, Insightful)
"living in a slum ... with just a laptop"
Says someone who doesn't understand that situation AND is lying through their teeth.
Is it finally time to require actual data for statements like these? Proof? Publicly shared BEFORE conclusions are made against it.
Re: A laptop in a slum? (Score:3)
Re:A laptop in a slum? (Score:4, Interesting)
"living in a slum ... with just a laptop"
People in slums often have laptops.
Old or broken laptops are loaded into containers and shipped to poor countries where people work in refurb warehouses, swapping parts around to make them work.
They are then sold as "pre-loved" laptops for about $20. Even a slum kid can do odd jobs and scrape together $20.
I once visited such a refurb center in Quezon City, Philippines to get a bulk discount for a local robotics school.
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Don't call it a job (Score:2)
This is a rerun of an old stupid political play (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Find something that is popular, but that you do not enjoy yourself
2. Do some serious mental gymnastics to attribute it to a social ill.
3. Feel better about yourself?
Tipper Gore did this with rap music. Hillary Clinton and others did this with violent video games. Now assholes are doing this with Roblox. To be clear, I hate Roblox. It is boring AF and my time is too precious to waste on shitty games. I only play the games I like. But, my kids LOVE it and it allows them to explore whatever permutation they want to. Want to watch Superman and Batman beat up Iron Man, Spider Man and the Skibidi Toilets?...someone has a game for that.
What Roblox did really well is create a tool that makes it super-easy to create your own video games. My son was making games at 7yo by downloading Roblox Studio and watching some videos. It's mostly a copy from template and drag and drop type system, but he made shooters where you got to shoot thomas the train engines....and we made them fart when they explode...because that was the most hilarious thing he's ever seen. As dumb as it was, I got to help him learn APIs and he was much better with the UI than I was.
So Roblox is not really exploiting kids. They have an open platform. Kids can make games. If the game is popular, it can earn money. The work is voluntary and the kids do it out of love or the desire for fame and for their fans. Roblox is fully free and from what I can tell, has no direct ads. You can buy currency, but that is not necessary for any game I've run across yet. It's mostly for upgrades or skins.
I imagine you probably are supporting a lot more child exploitation with your phone and devices you use to connect to Roblox than the game platform itself....but hey liberal arts types who don't have kids and need to participate in the outrage economy can't get too outraged over that because they're part of the problem too...so lets pick on something we don't enjoy, like Gloria Steinem did with porn, Tipper Gore did with rap, Hillary Clinton did with violent video games, etc.
My kids have been playing it for over 4 years. It's endless fun for them and a wide range of games. My daughter plays role play games where she gets to pretend to be her favorite Disney Channel characters...it's BORING AF, but thrilling to her. It's harmless and exploits them less than YouTube, social media, or really most of the internet. I wish I lived in a world where Roblox was a big problem in my life.
The problem is it's significantly below (Score:4, Insightful)
Back in the day of bedroom coders yeah there was some kids getting taken advantage of but there were plenty making pretty good money who made careers out of it.
But with Roblox having watched a couple of videos on the subjects that break down how the math works even if your game is wildly successful the only one making anything off it is the company that made Roblox. That's what people mean by exploitation.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Roblox is not just providing a tool for children to use. It actively encourages abusive behaviour. There are a lot of older kids and adults who run organizations that promote games, and the younger kids want to join them so their games get more exposure. Of course, they take a big cut of the profits, or all the profits, and often verbally and psychologically abuse the kids too. They demand that they produce more games, faster. Some of it has even involved sexual abuse.
Roblox knows about all this and does no
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>YouTube doesn't allow kids to monetize their videos
Unless you lie or have a parent register your AdSense account. I know a couple of people with kids making money off YouTube. Not "I don't have to get a real job" money, but far more than any sane parent would give them for an allowance.
Re: This is a rerun of an old stupid political pla (Score:2)
Children should be free to explore and play. Not turn on their computer every day stressed out about their job.
Whatever (Score:2)
The gift of child labor (Score:2)
Now Santa Claus is gonna kidnap you and make you work in the toy factory.
Hollywood Has No Problem Exploiting Children (Score:2)
As long as they are cute. Right? RIGHT?
Bullshit (Score:1)
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Job Creator (Score:2)
I believe him (Score:2)
But then again, I speak German.
nope (Score:4, Interesting)
As a father, I saw children "making games" on Roblox, being proud they got something published and prouder when someone play their games. I also saw my daughter playing some games on Roblox and I can assure you, money making games are not developed by a single child in a remote slum, they are developed by teams of professionals.
What the Dickens? (Score:3)
Next up: Silicon Valley startup announces scheme to employ primary school children in click-farm for work experience & personal growth opportunities.
No historical perspective here (Score:2)
Throughout history children have worked on the farms that they lived on; nobody thought anything of it. When industrialisation occurred, it was therefore inevitable that children would be expected to do the same. It slowly dawned on the wider community that some of the new generation of jobs were far more dangerous than farm work, and restrictions on the type and duration of employment for children gradually were legislated.
Given the inevitability of child labour in poorer countries, demanding that it doesn
Re:No historical perspective here (Score:4, Insightful)
Or perhaps we should aspire to being at least a little better than the worst examples that US corporatism can produce?
Ah - a rich westerner's perspective (Score:2)
Yes, we can afford to largely exclude our children from the work place. In poor countries too often they can't, with the result that 'demanding that it doesn't happen merely leaves the kids to be more badly exploited in unregulated sectors of the economy'. In that context the particular form of work this article is about is probably as unexploitative as is possible.
'Saving Mr Banks' shows us Walt Disney talking about his doing paper rounds morning and evening for his father at the age of eight in St Louis w
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Where do you see me defending US corps hiring children in the USA. We used to have child labour. We can afford to ban it now. But in a lot of countries that is not a reasonable expectation.
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Let's not worsen kids' situations (Score:2)
The easy response - which many have trotted out - is to condemn any form of child labour, and call on Western countries to pressure poor countries to ban it. A specific outworking of this is to prevent ALL child labour in formal sectors of the economy. At its worst this means that the kids get employed in far more dangerous and problematic ways because the parents need the money they can earn.
In this context the kid in the slum earning money on this site is possibly the best type of child employment. Hyperv
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Nice labelling (Score:2)
The issue is motivation. Do we want to do the best for the children here, or do we want to tick a box that satisfies our priorities?
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Those places do not exist anymore: since decades.
Just because the GDP looks low, does not mean the person is poor.
If you see a "poor farmer" sitting on a 20 year old bicycle, pushing it with his feet in old / broken slippers, driving a couple of buffaloes in front of him, you can bet:
o His wife is running mom&pop shop, or is a tailor or a weaver
o his oldest kid is at an University, or working already in a bank
o the youngest is in school, probably a private school, perhaps even one with an "English progr
There's always the flip side (Score:2)
"Like, you can say, 'Okay, we are exploiting, you know, child labour,' right? Or, you can say: we are offering people anywhere in the world the capability to get a job, and even like an income. So, I can be like 15 years old, in Indonesia, living in a slum, and then now, with just a laptop, I can create something, make money and then sustain my life. " There's always the flip side
This is key. In the West, we have largely done away with child labor. However, in many countries, it is the only way some families can survive. Tell some big company that sources products from such countries "avoid child labor", and: Have you saved children from exploitation? Or have you eliminated an essential source of income for many families.
The answer is: "it depends". It's not a simple, clear-cut issue.
In a slum? (Score:2)
I doubt someone living in a slum has access to a laptop, or if they did it's likely to be an old one that would have trouble running modern games. It's also likely to be running out of date, unsupported, pirated and probably malware infested software - so even if they do start earning an income, someone will come along and steal it from them.
Evil and Manipulative (Score:2)
What we really need is a good way for kids to make their own games WITHOUT the Roblox platform involved at all, and good free instruction on how they can do it.
If I didn't work 75 hours a week I'm sure I'd love to make some great Godot/Unity tutorials and promote the hell out of them.
Some investigative journalism on Roblox (Score:3)
How Roblox Is Exploiting Young Game Developers [youtube.com]
Roblox Pressured Us to Delete Our Video. So We Dug Deeper. [youtube.com]