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Washington School Bans Halo 2 Tournament

Posted by Zonk on Mon Jan 24, 2005 09:42 AM
from the not-terribly-surprising dept.
XBox (Games)
Pluvius writes "A couple of high-school students in the Washington city of Puyallup wanted to raise money for the tsunami disaster in South Asia, and figured that the best way to do so was to hold a tournament using Bungie's hit XBox title Halo 2. Their school district disagreed, citing an anti-violence policy. Even though all of the parents of the children who would've taken part in the tournament signed waivers acknowledging the game's violence, Puyallup School District felt that due to school shootings across the country, 'anything we do that even looks like we're endorsing violence is not appropriate.'"
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  • A mod, please? (Score:4, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok (451306) on Monday January 24 2005, @09:43AM (#11455138)
    Is there a mod for this that changes the weapons systems to Nerf guns?
    • You laugh, but there was an Unreal Tournament-based Nerf game (Nerf Arenablast! if I remember correctly) a few years ago that was loads of fun.

      Had a great mode where you had to collect balls worth a certain amount of points and shoot them through a target using a special gun. If you got fragged, your balls would scatter for the other folks to pick up.
      • "yeah, a shooter with sponge bullets i hope they come up"

        Even if they don't raise any money, this is sure to reduce the teen pregnancy rate at the school.

      • Because the people interviewed were the ORGANIZERS.

        The money is coming from the PARTICIPANTS.

        The participants make no claim (in the article) to giving a crap about the tsunami victims. They only want to play Halo 2.

        The organizers are the ones who are doing it because they (supposedly) care.

  • *sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dragoon412 (648209) on Monday January 24 2005, @09:49AM (#11455196)
    Yes, because each and every person out there would make the obvious cognitive leap that raising charity money via tournaments of a futuristic game based on fragging aliens equates to condoning kids bringing guns to school and shooting their classmates, right? /sarcasm

    This is asinine. Does the school have a football team? A wrestling team? Or do those not count as violent?

    • RTFA (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 24 2005, @09:52AM (#11455237)
      The school *did* have a football team, but they deemed it to violent and closed it down. They now play a form of "peaceball" where opponents hand each other presents, then gently insist the other team is better than their own, and has won.

    • Re:*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nes11 (767888)
      It only takes one person, not "each and every person." The fact is, most of the parents are probably paying enough attention to their kids for it not to be a problem, but it only takes that one.

      This is a wise move for the school. If something bad happened, they would be held responsible by the public & the media whether parent's signed permission slips or not.

        • Re:*sigh* (Score:2, Insightful)

          by nes11 (767888)
          "How is it different from taking field trips to the zoo, or funding violent sports?"

          Kids break bones
          Kids shoot others.

          Can you really not see the difference here? Are you just completely retarded? Tell me something, when was the last time the media spent a full week covering a broken bone or teen pregnancy? Compare that to the uproar over columbine and similar incidents. There is a HUGE difference.

          you said:
          "There's no media frenzy over video games; there's just a select group of idiots like Lieberman

          • Kids break bones
            Kids shoot others.

            I find it interesting that you imply that kids shooting each other after playing computer games is as natural as kids playing sports get hurt. Despite a lot of effort there is still no evidence than can demonstrate a causal relationship between playing violent video games and violent behaviour.

            Now media doesn't care about this and apparently you think it's a good idea to avoid this confrontation as it "looks bad" instead of trying to do the right thing.

            I'm flattered th

    • I put one last line at the end of my submission, but Zonk took it out:

      "One wonders if intermural football has been banned in these schools using the same logic."

      You're definitely not the only one who smells hypocrisy here. I think that the supposed difference is that football is "cool" and "popular" and "lucrative for the schools" and Halo 2 isn't.

      Rob (Guess which of those three is most important)

  • We suck. (Score:4, Funny)

    by keiferb (267153) on Monday January 24 2005, @09:50AM (#11455217) Homepage
    Are they really expecting the kids to go home, make a needle gun, and bring it in to school? All the Halo games teach is that you should kill aliens. It says nothing about school teachers or other students.

    Here's a spoon, America. Let's dig our heads out of our asses.
    • try to play it in coop in a lan setting for a weekend.. gets real old real fast.

      man vs. man.

      anyways.. what's the sad part is that they're disallowing it because they think that somebody might say to them later that they're endorsing violence.. they KNOW that it should be 100% OK - but are too afraid to let it happen.

      bunch of sissies.

  • What a non-story (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Matt Perry (793115) on Monday January 24 2005, @09:51AM (#11455225)
    What a non-story (not slashdot but the article). The students want it, the parents signed off on it. So what if the school doesn't want it? Then don't involve the school. I'm sure there's plenty of other locations where one could hold the tournament. Maybe a local community center?

    • You have a point but what worth is a school that refuses video games such as HL2 deeming them violent, where the actual goal is to raise funds?

      What does that teaches to the kids? Better be censored and/or politically correct rather than be generous and donate?

      If it the "stellar" coming of Bush that produces such nonsense, I suggest you jump out the mothership and land in Canada. [cic.gc.ca]

      It is not because you are not paranoid that Aliens are not out to get you.

  • So what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GoofyBoy (44399) on Monday January 24 2005, @09:57AM (#11455302) Journal
    School's policy, school's decision.

    Just have the fundraiser outside of school property.
    • Bingo. And then write to local newspapers and get plenty of press about it, and don't forget to add that despite the school trying to prevent you from raising money, you're doing it anyway.

  • If they refuse to endorse viloence.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Landak (798221) <Landak@gmail.com> on Monday January 24 2005, @10:01AM (#11455351) Homepage
    If they refuse to endorse violence in any way, shape, or form; then bye bye Shakespeare, Dickens, Tolstoy (?), Nursery Rhymes; etc, as well as almost all forms of organised sport; modern art, some forms of modern music, etc; etc.

    It's a video game. Just as Romeo and Juliet is a book. Where one has you not-so-elegantly killing your opponents; the other has a very elegant description of someone killing his opponents. Where you conspire with your friends to best your enemies in Halo; the two houses "teams" conspire to best each other in Romeo and Juliet.

    Humanity is violent; its' roots are violence, and if you cannot control your own desire for violence then *you* probably *will* do something stupid at some point in your life- which has nothing to do whatsoever with Halo 2; Half-life 2; Doom 3.....

    • Look, think about it from the school's perspective. Lawyers will try to find even the most obscure link between a shooting and the video games the shooter may have played. If the school *did* allow this tournament to happen, you just know that if there was a shooting five years down the line that the school district would be the first in line to be sued.

      Don't blame the school, blame the sue-happy culture and the negative stigma of videogames for forcing their hand.

    • Re:If they refuse to endorse viloence.... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy. It demonstrates how the violence between the two houses leads to ruin and unhappiness for all.

      Halo 2 is a video game. It rewards people for actively commiting acts of virtual violence.

      See the difference?

      The books you've listed contain violence, but they don't endorse it - very much the opposite. Halo 2, on the other hand, is an endorsement for commiting violent acts, albiet of the virtual variety.
  • ...have stuck with MonkeyBall
    • I for one will not condone a game that encourages the capture and exploitation of animals from temperate climates for your enjoyment. I refuse to hold a tournament in my school.

  • Sucks, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eviltypeguy (521224) on Monday January 24 2005, @10:13AM (#11455486)
    I can't really blame them. All it would take is some bleeding-heart political activist and suddenly it would look like the school is endorsing violent activities. The school is protecting themselves from possible litigation and some possible embarassment. As much as it sucks, it's the safer decision they've taken.
  • I know this isn't going to be the most popular opinion, but I sort of feel sorry for the school district here. I mean, imagine if they did allow this and a parent complained, and you know one would. In a society that values censorship over responsibility, these people just did what they needed to to keep their jobs. As asinine as it seems, the district people were taking the safest route for all involved, politically. One more thing- imagine that a week later some nutball came to school and started shootin
    • But that's just the thing... It's all politics. Politics do not belong in our schools. We Americans need to get over ourselves and start being real people again, forget all the politically correct bullshit. Seriously... This stuff is ruining our country. Secondly, if every single parent signed a waiver, then the school has no responcibilites anyway. Also you have to think about the fact that Halo is rated M (17+), how many of those kids are old enough to play the game without their parents consent anyway?
      • "Also you have to think about the fact that Halo is rated M (17+), how many of those kids are old enough to play the game without their parents consent anyway?"

        All of them are old enough. A game rating says nothing about who is *allowed* to play.

        "Halo 2 is not really meant for children in the first place."

        Ridiculous. Halo/Halo2 are written and intended for exactly those age groups in high school. The fact that it has an M-whatever rating is solely because the manufacturers and stores need to cover *th

  • A Call from the ACLU May Fix This (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Doug Dante (22218) on Monday January 24 2005, @10:51AM (#11455932)
    While getting a bad rap for taking on the boy scouts, the ACLU is probably the most useful defender of students' rights in America (defending students rights to wear black arm bands, publish independent student papers, etc).

    IIRC, it's their legal position that student organizations all have an equal right to school facilities (yup even the Boy Scouts - just no 'special rights').

    You may want to contact them via their students' rights web site at ACLU student rights [aclu.org]

    • I don't know, the issue deals (in a remote and indirect way) with firearms, the ACLU might want nothing to do with it. They are quite selective about the aspects of the bill of rights they support.

      Finkployd

    • The real answer to this is in the last sentence of the article. The school system says they'll support the fundraiser if a less violent video game is played. The decision doesn't deny any students access, it regulates what they can do in the building. The normal school day is full of this kind of regulation.

  • Rated M for Mature (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CoreyGH (246060) on Monday January 24 2005, @10:59AM (#11456023) Homepage
    Halo 2 has an ESRB rating of M (17+). Most of the kids in highschool do not fit into that category. If they wanted to have a Mario Party tournament then I would understand people being upset over it being canceled but we have to face facts. Halo 2 is not for kids.
    • Doesn't matter if it's Mario Party or Manhunt. Parents of all kids said they recognize the violence in this game and allow their children to participate. Ratings are only there to give parents an idea of what is in the game, nothing more. Case closed.
      • If the school district is supporting the fund raiser then it isn't the parents' call. The school district is responsable for kids, Halo 2 is not for kids so district pulls its support for the event. If they parents and kids want to hold their own tournament that isn't supported by the district then they are welcome to.
      • There's no science behind these letters, beyond anthropology/sociology.

        That may be true, however that doesn't change the fact that it's the only ratings system we have. When we have arguments on why these types of games shouldn't be banned from store shelves everyone always shouts "But look, we have a RATING system!" We can't now call that system useless in this situation. You can't have it both ways.
  • Instead of the school admin worrying that this might lead to school shootings, maybe they should examine the other side of the spectrum. Perhaps, just perhaps, letting these teens take out some frustrations on some virtual characters in some game will help alleviate some stress.

    I know I always feel better when I riddle some poor nameless sod with a few hundred rounds from my MG3 in Ghost Recon...

  • This is horrible... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TJ_Phazerhacki (520002) <(ellomdian) (at) (gmail.com)> on Monday January 24 2005, @11:40AM (#11456573) Journal
    Back in the day (wow - that sounds corny), we managed to bring in an external drive with UT:GOTYE and "forgot" to leave it plugged into the network. Great times, UT'ing during open lab at lunch. The best part was when a few of the male teachers found out, and "Annonomously" joind games during their breaks.

    It had little effect on productivity, grades didn't change, and we were using otherwise unnocupied resources. And I don't need to tell you the effect it had on morale...

    Few months later, in the next semester, we had some county people in the school. One of them was checking email in the lab. Someone else walked in and booted up UT.

    Not only did we recieve a ridiculous lecture (understand, we are 15 mins from Columbine, maybe 18mos later) but there were suspensions, the lab tech was reprimanded (later left the system - now makes twice the $$ dev'ing software!) And we made the district newsletter.

    Schools over-react to everything, because by default, the only people in district management are the ones who think there is something intrensically wrong with the way the system is run - they do not understand logic - They comprehend only liability.

  • Students at a school go on a shooting spree when officials told them that they couldn't play Halo 2 for a good cause.

    Idiots

  • Understandable (Score:3, Interesting)

    by g0bshiTe (596213) on Monday January 24 2005, @11:50AM (#11456677)
    I completely understand and agree with teh schools stance. Should anything have happened after the event, months or even years, you could bet that some parents group somewhere would have held the school liable for it.

    I also think that the students should be commended for wanting to do something to aid the victims of this disaster. It proves that their generation isn't as disenfranchised as we are lead to believe.

    Good job gamers!
  • I agree that it's stupid that they have to turn this kind of thing down. But I would do the same thing given today's society. If someone playing the games shot someone later, you know the district could get sued because they "promoted violence" and probably win. Not because it's true, but because we live in a "blame others first" society. It wouldn't be worth it to me to take the risk. Stupid society.

  • What this really teaches us... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Black Art (3335) on Monday January 24 2005, @12:24PM (#11457179)
    This is only one small part of a much bigger problem.

    American students are not taught how to distinguish fantasy from reality.

    This has been going on for at least one generation, maybe more, depending on what criteria you use.

    This is why Americans are not allowed to see real phone numbers in fictional movies. If they do, people call the numbers trying to reach the fictional characters. (A film that had a story about God helping people had a real number in it and the people who happened to have that number were swamped by people trying to contact God.)

    Some people say our last election was an example of people who cannot tell fantasy from reality.

    Some of the people who want to protect us from real violence seem to believe that fantasy violence either causes it or encourages real violence when the statistics show no such correleation. Just because they cannot tell the difference does not mean that others do not.

    I can give other examples...

    I doubt that this problem will be solved soon. Too many parts of American culture derive their power from the confusion of fantasy and reality for their to be any real incentive to change.
    • Actually the phone number bit is more an issue of pranksterism than failure of fantasy distinguishment.

      KLonkdike 5 numbers, the predecessors to our "555-01xx" (usually implemented liberally as "555-xxxx" ), were in the movies over fifty years ago for this reason.
    • "Too many parts of American culture derive their power from the confusion of fantasy and reality for their to be any real incentive to change."

      And I'm sure reality TV doesn't fuel that fire in the least bit.

  • Why have I not heard of all these school shootings? I cannot recall hearing of even one last year!

  • They should just have an Animal Crossing tourney instead! That would rock!

    "TAKE THAT ASSHOLE, I just got the Purple Flower Stationary! BUUYAH!"
  • This is the same school district that cancelled halloween this year. And they did it to avoid offending Wiccans. An independant survey of Wiccans in the area didn't reveal any who would have been offended.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136946,00.ht ml

    This is an issue on which Republicans and Democrats should be able to agree. What we have here is a group of school administrators so extremely left wing and paranoid that they'll cancel just about anything.

      • That was the quote from my article...

        A real-life witch who lives in nearby Tacoma agreed that the superintendent in Puyallup must be off his broomstick.

        "I see Halloween more as a holiday, a fun time for them. Some of us Wiccan have a deeper meaning under it, but I don't think we should take away from the kids," Wiccan Marjenna Gittings said.

        And the independent survey...
        1) I know a bunch of Wiccans
        2) Call in radio shows were unable to locate offended Wiccans, but managed to find plenty of Wiccans that *we

  • And now for extinction news. (Score:3, Funny)

    by pauldy (100083) on Monday January 24 2005, @01:36PM (#11458194) Homepage
    The newest entry into the endangered lists, common sense. While everyone has been out ranting and raving about saving this animal, that plant, protecting minorities, and not hurting people's feelings we forgot to save one thing.

  • Kids, we can't do anything that looks like we endorse violence. So no video games.

    Now, get your football helmets on, get out there, and you POUND that other team into the GROUND! GO TEAM GO!

  • The school's right. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by phouka (224269) on Monday January 24 2005, @02:49PM (#11459335)
    I'm guessing that a high percentage of the folks here condemning the school don't own homes.

    Why? Because homeowners go through this sort of painful deliberation regularly.

    I live in a cul-de-sac and my yard happens to be the recipient of all the snow for the entire street. For a kid, it presents awesome potential for king-of-the-hill, snowball fights, digging tunnels, etc. It's truly a massive amount of snow.

    But can I really let the neighborhood kids play in it? No way. The second one of them got hurt, it's MY homeowner's policy on the line. It's MY insurance that's going to not get renewed, forcing me to double my cost for homeowner's insurance when I have to resort to the state 'pool'. In other words, if I want to be a nice guy I have to accept an unreasonable risk.

    The school is in the same position. You can bet that administrator and the school officials really thought what the kids were doing was cool. You can also bet that they sat back and said: "When we get sued, it's going to require resources in time and money that we *really* can't afford, given ever-tightening school budges."

    So they came to the only reasonable conclusion.

    To all these folks screaming about the state of our country, I pose this question: Are you really, honestly ready to stand up and say "I won't sue my neighbor, even if he's technically culpable"? Because until you are, people are going to be more concerned about protecting themselves than in freeing up their resources to share.
    • And just how much is $500 from some stupid LAN going to help?

      Keep going down.

      "$380 we were thinking was going to go straight into the Red Cross Tsunami fund," Alston said.
      Oh and don't you dare bring up the other hot spots where genocide and regular slaughter are going on. That's just man against man, whereas the Tsunami represents God against man, and we're going to KICK gOD'S ASS!!!111 WTF!!!!11
      • $500 will help a lot more than sitting around whining on slashdot about something you don't agree with. What are you doing to help?

        Go help. Go volunteer, go write a check, go do something with your life. Putting down people who are trying to help, helps nobody.

        It may be "man against god" but unlike many other genocides going on in the world, this one is not due to politics or religion. There is no bad guy and no good guy.

        • Re:*Yawn* (Score:2, Insightful)

          by nes11 (767888)
          I agree completely. just trying to add some humor. Want something really funny? check out my other post on this topic. I get modded troll for basically saying what you just said & another guy gets +4 insightful for bashing me.

          lol, this is a sad reflection on /. as a whole.

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