Microsoft Acknowledges 360 Issues, Extends Warranty to 3 Years

RamblinLonghorn writes "Microsoft has announced that they are extending the warranty for all Xbox 360s to 3 years. This appears to be entirely retroactive and that 'those who have already paid for such repair charges can expect reimbursement checks for the amount of their console repair.' It seems as though Microsoft is accepting the blame for the hardware malfunctions, but it is worth noting that this warranty modification only applies in the 'Red Rings of Death' situation."

I'd like a 360

[MBCook (132727)]

I'd like a 360. I really would. There are games I'd like to play (PGR3, Dead Rising, some others), as well as games coming out I'd like to play (Rock Band and many others). But I keep hearing about failures. I know people who are on at least their 3rd 360. I've seen the estimations recently putting the failure rates as high as ~30% (which, even if is off by 5x is quite high). If you combine that with the noise the things make, I'm hesitant to buy one. I keep waiting for a re-spin of the silicon (moving to a smaller process should help with the heat/noise issues).

The Elite might have got me but instead of pushing the models down, they just put the Elite on top with a new higher price point.

Re:

[Seumas (6865)]

I haven't had a lot of problems with mine, except that Forza 2 won't play. I've tried four different brand new copies of it and about 98% of the time, the XBOX 360 tries to play it as if it were a DVD and not a game. I literally have to reboot the XBOX about 40 times every time I want to play, before it finally works. Mind you, my 48+ other XBOX 360 games are just fine in it.

What's weird is when I called a month ago for help with the game (no solutions, they were baffled), it turned out my XBOX had another

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi (1030352)]

I had a DVD drive go out, but no other problems. Considering the hours into the machine, It's no less reliable than any computer. Out everyone I know that has one, I'm the only one that has sent one back. IMO, the seem as reliable as any computer. Disk drives fail eventually, I'm not more sure of anything other than death and taxes. I haven't seen or personally heard of any other problems with them.
But you are correct, they can be quite noisy and and do put out a great deal of heat. As far North as

Don't be so forgiving!

[LKM (227954)]

I'm astonished to read so many "mine is okay, except a game doesn't work" or "no problem so far, only a broken dvd drive" comments. Don't be so forgiving! This is a game console, not a PC. There's no reason why it should break within such a short timespan! I've bought dozens of consoles, and all of them still work. Some of them are over 20 years old!

Re:

[LKM (227954)]

Game Console or PC, a DVD Drive is still a DVD drive with a different face plate.

So? You only use it to play DVDs which are (probably) manufactured by or to the specs of the manufcaturer of your console. It's not like a PC where you constantly put all kinds of burned and questionable CDs and DVDs inside. And even on a PC, I expect the DVD drive to last until I replace the PC, which is at least 3 to 4 years.

Especially since they sold me the hardware below cost

How does that matter? I look at a console and judge its value. I expect the thing to behave like a console, not like a cheap-ass PC I built from parts I found in the dumpster at

Re:

[bastion_xx (233612)]

I bought the 360 when it first came out in November 2004. Red ring of death in Feb of 2007. I was dreading sending it back for repair, but decided to ask Costco what my options were. They said bring it back in to any store and get a full refund.

So I bought a new package deal, swapped out all the components, and everyone is happy. It's a hard return policy to beat, and is especially handy when dealing with electronic goods (sans TV's, computers and I think cameras, where the return policy is now 90 days).

Oka

Red rings of death

[by Anonymous Coward]

...and for those of us who have no idea wtf the "red rings of death are", see here [teamxbox.com]

(Posted anonymously to avoid karma whoring)

Bravo Microsoft

[DarkFencer (260473)]

I'm not normally a fan of MS, nor do I own a 360, but this is a great move by Microsoft - and not something they NEEDED to do. They could have just fixed the problems and made it a year or so but by extending this to a three year warranty (retroactive) they are going to save a lot of people money.

Companies like GameStop who sell extended warranties though might not be happy since I certainly wouldn't buy one now that MS is backing their system up for 3 years.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

Bravo???

Microsoft rushes to market the most poorly designed console in history.
Stonewalls on the insane failure rate for two years.
Makes 360 owners go through hell each and every time their 360 dies yet again.
Leaves people with disc scratching drives in the lurch.
And finally is forced to somewhat admit the problem and fork up a billion dollars.

Yeah, 'bravo' Microsoft...

So if you are one of the poor sods who actually bought a 360 you are still looking at your console dieing from a few weeks to few months ove

Re:

[DarkFencer (260473)]

Do I think they screwed up and should have done this a long time ago? Sure. Would it have been better if they kept stonewalling and never admitted an issue - or if they did only agree to fix within the year? Absolutely not. They screwed up for a while and are fixing the problem now. If you don't believe that they will also fix the root cause of the hardware now - with a three year commitment to have working systems for their customers, then you're crazy.

A three year warranty in the electronics industry

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

360s were constantly failing in demo and media/press review units a least a couple months before the system hit the shelves. Microsoft has know the system was defective by design even earlier.

And YET they decided to go right ahead and ship a fundamentally defect piece of hardware.

How can ANYONE in ANYWAY defend that utterly despicable action.

Re:

[I'm Don Giovanni (598558)]

Extending the warranty is great, but how about actually fixing the problem?
Supposedly the problem is that the heat isn't disipated properly, which leads to internal parts being warped (ever so slightly), which severs/loosens connections. It's time to fix the damn problem! Move to 65nm chips (which I hear produce less heat). I really want an Xbox360, but I don't have time to put up with a broken unit, even with a 3-year warranty. Fix the problem, get the defect rate down to ~5%, and I'm in! :)

Microsoft NEEDED to do this? No.

[avoisin (105703)]

I work for a high tech company that makes expensive hardware, far pricier than the xbox, and I've come to understand a lot more about the cost of warranties from the supplier end. Extending warranties is essentially a loss for the the manufacturer - you're essentially betting when what you made will fail. That's weighed against the cost of making more durable components and the cost that a customer would not buy your product in the first place.

When the 360 first came out, someone made a decision that beyond one year it would cost the company too much to repair the consoles relative to the increased sales than would be had by having a longer warranty. They also had to take into account the bad publicity that could (and did) occur.

I'll be pure engineer here - someone at Microsoft redid the formula, given the knowledge of failures that have happened since release. This time around, the math said that enough future sales would be lost to outweigh the cost of extending the warranty. It's really that simple. It's also interesting to note here that they didn't make it a lifetime warranty (20 years or something). They probably ran that formula too, and decided that the math tips the other way if you let it last forever.

So did they NEED to do this? If by need you mean "saving face", then no. Being the retrospective hero doesn't help anything, only in the sense that it might affect future sales.

Re:Microsoft NEEDED to do this? No.

[Velops (1006755)]

The formulas used to calculate warranties are meant to cover manufacturing errors. Every once in a while, a defective unit will get past quality control in the factory due to human error. The warranty is designed to protect customers if they get one of these units.

The "Red Ring of Death" is likely from a design flaw, not a manufacturing error. A manufacturing error would not account for the abnormal failure rate. It is literally built into every unit that leaves the factory. The only long-term solution to a design flaw is a product recall.

Extending the warranty is just a temporary solution because Xbox 360s will continue get the "Red Ring of Death".

A $1 BILLION DOLLAR cost?

[nweaver (113078)]

Assuming they just do full replace and junk, and pay full retail price, that is >2.5 MILLION failed X-Boxes in the next 2 years. Assuming each repair costs Microsoft only $200, they are budgeting for 5 MILLION failed x-boxen!

With only 11 million X-boxen shipped, that 33% failure rate is sounding like an UNDERCOUNT!

Re:A $1 BILLION DOLLAR cost?

[mediamonkey (1008907)]

Actually, it is almost EXACTLY that much - according to the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6275728.stm [bbc.co.uk]

what about 4-red lights?

[MyDixieWrecked (548719)]

The 360 in my apt has 4 lights lit. It used to be 3, but it's since decided to light the 4th after I attempted the towel trick to fix it (the towel trick worked once, but the second time, it didn't work at all, and shortly after that, the 4th LED lit).

We'll have to call MS when I get home to see if that's covered.

with any luck, they'll cover it and we wont' have to shell out 150$

Re:

[Spazmania (174582)]

I attempted the towel trick to fix it

The only "trick" is burning out the temperature sensors so it runs the fans faster without burning out anything else. You'd be better off just hotwiring the fans direct to the 12 volt supply so it can't attempt to moderate the fan speed.

Seriously, towel trick? You get the "I'm desperate and not too smart" award. I invented it today. Just for you.

Re:

[MyDixieWrecked (548719)]

I know what it does.

When MS wants $150 that I don't have to repair the thing, it's worth a shot. It did fix it the first time for about 2 weeks (the unit has been out of the 1-year warranty for about 6 months).

Especially when a friend of mine did it and his 360 has been working fine ever since... it sucks it worked for him, who could've easily afforded fixing the device.

Re:

[Stuart Gibson (544632)]

If it's four lights then it means the AV cable is disconnected or faulty.

this is amazing!

[SolusSD (680489)]

Its amazing when any big company willingly does something like this (without a class action, intense media coverage, etc). What is more amazing is its microsoft doing it. Guess they figure they can't afford to look bad at any level in such a high heat console war.

Props for Owning Up

[ironwill96 (736883)]

Regardless of your opinion of Microsoft, they have continually impressed me with their willingness (eventual) to own up to issues with the console and extend the warranty retro-actively. I just can't see Sony doing the same thing in this situation. I feel good knowing that if I get the red rings of death (my friend already had one bout with it), that they will pay for it since my console will still be good for several more years now.

Re:

[senatorpjt (709879)]

You know, you've made about 1000 comments in 360/PS3 related articles, why don't you just get an account?

I can see it now...

[by Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft officially apologizing for Vista and offering XP licenses to those unhappy with it. Meanwhile, they work on a new OS that will actually run on modern hardware.

WoW!!! That is a LOT of breakage...

[Fallen Kell (165468)]

Using their financial numbers as to the cost of extending the warranty to 3 years, MS themselves anticipates a full 3.8 million COMPLETE NEW replacement Xbox 360's to have to send out. That gives you an idea as to the failure rate they are seeing. This is at the current FULL RETAIL cost of the system and not using only repair costs. If it only costs $100 to repair, that would mean an anticipated 11.5 million failures during the 3 year warranty period.

Question

[Guppy06 (410832)]

I've recently had problems with the USB ports on my PS3, but Sony won't touch it for free since I no longer have my receipt (nevermind that it's impossible for the warranty to have expired by now; I guess the policy saves them some money). So with Microsoft retroactively extending the warranty like this, what happens to those people who voided their warranty, thinking that it was expired?

Microsoft Knew and Denied

[egNuKe (1042382)]

http://www.megagames.com/news/html/console/microso ftconfessandfixrrodepidemic.shtml [megagames.com] has gone all the way to say: [quote]Some people would believe that Microsoft have just discovered the issue and fixed it, as expected from a reputable multinational company. But when asked, Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's Entertainment & Devices Division for a "little over first year" the "set of issues wasn't visible at all," but during the last couple of months the company has seen "significant increases, significant call volume, and significant attention" to the problem. During those "couple of months" Microsoft actively denied the problem several times. [/quote]

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi (1030352)]

Perhaps offtopic, but...
They don't appear to repair 360s. I had a DVD drive failure and I got back a new console in just a couple days. Being in MN and sending it to Texas, there is no way they even had time to look at it to see what the problem was, they just send out a new one as soon a one comes in. Although I was very happy there was so little down time, I can't help but wonder why they would shell out a new console for what is likely a $15 repair. Even with labor, costs can't be that high. In my

Re:Still, they break.

[stratjakt (596332)]

They dont shell out a new console, they ship you a refurbed unit.

Give them a CC# and they'll cross ship (send your refurbed unit out right now, before they recieve your return).

Then they fix yours, and put it in the pool to be sent to someone else.

It's how RMA's work.

Re:Still, they break.

[MeanMF (631837)]

Because of DRM issues they stopped doing that a while ago. Now they make an effort to return your repaired box to you. If it's broken beyond repair, only then do you get a refurb.

Four choices

[MarkByers (770551)]

> You have three choices, nintendo ... xbox ... and finally the sony PS3,

You forgot one. There is the PS2 as well. It's a decent, fun system and you can still buy games for it. It's not to be totally ignored just yet.

Re:

[rbgaynor (537968)]

It would appear from the size of this charge to earnings ($1billion+) that the XBox reliability is considerably worse than average. Microsoft even called it "an unacceptable number of repairs to Xbox 360 consoles," marketing-speak for "Houston, we have a problem."

Re:

[senatorpjt (709879)]

The only specific PS3 failure I've read about is where some guy put tape over the vent holes to "keep dust out."

Not that they don't happen, the widely quoted figures I've seen, Wii and PS3 failure rate was about 1%, compared to 30% for the 360.

Re:

[xero314 (722674)]

less than 1 percent...That would mean... 1 in 100...

Um. actually that would mean less than 1 in 100. That could be as low as say 1 in 1000, or 1 in 10000, or even 1 in a million.

Re:Still, they break.

[rbgaynor (537968)]

Quality control / reliability is the issue. How they handle it is at best damage control. The most they can hope for is people thinking "They really screwed the pooch there, but at least they agreed to adopt the puppies." As for stepping up with the warranty did they really step up or is this a preemptive step to avoid a large (and expensive) class action lawsuit.

Re:Still, they break.

[Darby (84953)]

MS have really impressed me with the way the handle most of the issues (with a few noted exceptions which any large company will have). Although they tried to supress the fact that they were having issues, they have now admited it, and in good faith. They extended the warranty to show good faith, not because they were obligated to, or had to....

If they initially lied about the issue and worked to cover it up, then *nothing* they subsequently do can be considered "in good faith".
They tried to scam people, got caught over a massive design failure, and are now doing damage control.

Good faith would have been noticing the issue first and working to ameliorate the damage they caused.
Going into damage control mode after being caught lying is not in any way "good faith".

It's amazing the shit people will willingly lap up these days. Truly bizarre.

Re:

[xero314 (722674)]

All consumer electronics have a failure rate. And that rate goes to 100% as time goes on.

It's a matter of how quickly that rate becomes 100%. I would say supporting a company that makes products with a high failure rate would make you the moron.

Re:Well...

[Otter (3800)]

What is it with all the new consoles having so many hardware problems?...Heh. My NES / SNES still work fine ~15 years later.

Because there was no Internet back then* for you to hear about isolated cases of hardware failure. If someone's NES burned up, he went back to Woolworth's or whatever they had back then, got a new one and complained to his buddies. Now, consoles come out and the most freakish problems (hurling your Wiimote through the TV screen, for example) gets spread worldwide.

* Yes, I know that there actually was an Internet back then, with at least 11 users.

Re:

[LKM (227954)]

No, that's actually not the reason. The reason is optical drives. Go to a garage sale. You'll see countless N64s, but you almost never see PS1s. Why is that? Because PS1s break easily, while N64s don't break at all. I own dozens of consoles, some of them over 20 years old. Not a single one of them has ever had any kind of issue, except one of the Dreamcasts; I never bought a PS1 or a PS2.

My original Pong still works. VCS 2600? Still works. NES, SNES, Turbografx, all still work.

Nothing to do with the Interne

Re:

[WMD_88 (843388)]

Your NES still works fine? Lucky you. Most NES units have faulty cart connectors, due to a design defect. Mine is near impossible to fire up...the best solution I found so far is to insert the cart, press down all the way, and then wedge a Game Boy Pocket (?!?!) in between, holding it all the way down. Press Power, then Reset.
The SNES has no such problems and very well should last until now, at least.

Re:

[despisethesun (880261)]

That was actually the reason behind the redesigned NES that came out towards the end of the console's life (that and milking it for everything it was worth). The original Famicom and the NES 2 were top-loaded and didn't suffer the same problems.

Re:

[brkello (642429)]

So does my Sony Walkman...what's your point? Disc readers are a lot more fragile...should be fairly obvious.

Re:

[RamblinLonghorn (1074873)]

And yet it still outsells its market competitor

Re:

[AuMatar (183847)]

Nope, its not outselling the wii. It has a higher marketshare due to a year more on shelves, but at this rate it'll be gone by years end.

Re:An Utter Train Wreck

[by Anonymous Coward]

The most amazing thing to me is that according to these figures the PlayStation 2 sold 188,000 units during May So the old gen PlayStation outsells the nextgen Xbox 360 and the PS3.

Top selling hardware for may is:

DS 423,000
Wii 338,000
PSP 221,000
PS2 188,000
Xbox 155,000
PS3 82,000
GBA 80,000

Even funnier. Handhelds are more popular then the big nextgen wonders.

Re:

[RamblinLonghorn (1074873)]

The PS3 is selling at a rate that is right between the first Playstation and PS2..

That would be fine and dandy, if the market was a static, fixed, number of customers. 82,000 units in a month in todays market stinks. I agree with you that the PS3 is a marvelous piece of technology. The games look beautiful, and a few of them are probably pretty fun. It may even catch on and get back into competitiveness, but in my opinion, based on the NPD numbers and daily press stories, I wouldn't bet on it.

All

Re:

[Shados (741919)]

Indeed. Im sure Microsoft would have quite a bigger market share if it wasn't for the hardware issues. I know I personally really want to play current and upcoming 360 games, but I hate dealing with customer services and repairs with a passion, so I'm not touching one until its semi-reliable. I doubt I'm the only one thinking that way.

Re:

[Volante3192 (953645)]

Probably realized they were getting dangerously close to a class action lawsuit which would've been much more expensive.

Re:

[eln (21727)]

my 360 is actually very quiet (my PC is WAY louder with my 7 case fans)

I'm sure what you're saying is valid, and I'm glad you're happy with your purchase. This line made me laugh though. Your PC has 7 case fans, which has to make it abnormally loud for a PC (my PC only has 3 case fans, and that's if you include the power supply fan as a "case fan"). This is like saying my car runs amazingly quiet because it isn't as loud as a 747.

Re:

[Kaenneth (82978)]

I think using a domestic vacuum cleaner on electronics is a bad idea, I've heard they generate a bit of static electricity...