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Nintendo's Mystery DS Portable Revealed 391
Thanks to GameSpy for its story revealing the first information on the dual-screened, portable Nintendo DS, the previously rumored 'mystery console' that's been lacking any concrete details up to now. According to the piece, the DS "features two separate 3" TFT LCD display panels, separate processors, and semiconductor memory of up to 1 Gigabit. It's scheduled to launch worldwide before the end of 2004." The article further explains: "Players can look forward to being able to simultaneously manage their game progress from two different perspectives, enhancing both the speed and strategy of the challenge. For example, players will no longer be forced to interrupt game play to shift perspective, such as moving from a wide shot to a close up, or alternating between a character's ongoing battle and a map of their environment." A concurrently released official Nintendo press release confirms this information.
Why two screens? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why two screens? (Score:5, Interesting)
This sounds pretty cool. You could do some really interesting things with RPGs and strategy games.
Cheaper components (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cheaper components (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Cheaper components (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Why two screens? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nobody cares about the screen size, but 2 screens, ooohh!
Of course, it'll use twice as many batteries, but I doubt marketing will insist on that feature...
Re:Why two screens? (Score:5, Insightful)
Gee, 15 hours of battery life down to 7.5. Well damn that's just unplayable.
Re:Why two screens? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why two screens? (Score:3, Interesting)
This seems like a solution that could be imp
Re:Why two screens? (Score:5, Funny)
Do you get a lot of speeding tickets?
Re:Why two screens? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why two screens? (Score:5, Interesting)
It is hard to give your full attention to two screens at once. For most games, the second screen on the DS will probably end up being more of an information window that you occasionaly glance at. It seems rather unnecessary on a portable.
Nintendo does this kind of gimmicky stuff all the time. They come out with something truely innovative and clever but ultimately useless and neglected. See also ROB, SuperScope, SuperGameboy, VirtualBoy, e-Reader, 64DD, and GBA-GC link.
Re:Why two screens? (Score:3, Interesting)
Strategic Reasons (Score:5, Interesting)
The ROB was released to get the NES out of department stores and into electronics stores, and at that it succeeded admirably (they never intended to support it, sadly). The GBA-GC link was an attempt to use the success of the GBA to drive sales of their new system. The SuperGameboy took some of the edge out of the criticism that the Game Boy was not actually a color device, during a time when it was under a very real attack from the Lynx, the Game Gear, and the TurboExpress. It also attempted to leverage the success of the GB to the SNES, in the same way that the GBA-GC link would later fail to do. The 64-DD was an experiment in optical re-writable technologies, as a response to criticisms of the storage capacity of cartridges and the then obvious future for networked gaming. The e-Reader sold and still sells well in Japan. Selling barcodes for 5 bucks sounds like a good idea to me. The SuperScope was Nintendo's attempt to make and promote a gun to shed their kiddy image, but to make is so laughably non gun-like (and ergonomically challenged) as to not offend parents. Gunpei Yokoi, who helped found Nintendo's interactive ambitions with light gun shooting galleries and created the original zapper, was responsible for the SuperScope. He also (ill)concieved the VirtualBoy was during a time where JaguarVR and the Genesis/SegaCD/32X VR system was perceived as a threat.
You did miss a few, though. There was the Power Pad, the Game Boy Camera, the Game Boy Printer, the Super Mouse, the Play Choice 10, the Nintendo Super System, the entire Wizard movie, Killer Instinct for the SNES, the years-too-late mini NES. [fatmangames.com] Some of them, like the RAM expansion pack, or the Satellite, were handled surprisingly well overall. Most of them were just swept under the rug.
I think we can all guess what the fate of this system will likely be.
Re:Why two screens? (Score:2, Informative)
I guess that the dual-screen gameboy would be a similar situation.
Re:Why two screens? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not exactly new. Had some OLD lcd nintendo games (Score:4, Interesting)
Worked excellent.
Sounds familiar (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sounds familiar (Score:2, Interesting)
The quirkiness of this sounds pretty cool although I am getting visions of the Virtual Boy again...
My main concern is how powerful it is, the Playstation Portable is allegedly nearly as powerful as a PS2, so will the DS be able to compete? Historically, the B&W GB beat machines like the Atari Lynx, so it will be fun to see if Nintendo can do it again!
Er - Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
But on the other hand, I can look at this and say "Well, but - maybe." The idea itself is nothing new compared to playing, say, Descent, Quake, or Baldur's Gate with 2 monitors the way I've always wanted to play them - a menu or map on one side, and the "gameplay" on the other.
The screens sound about the size of a Gameboy Advance screen. Remember, Nintendo - back light, please Lord backlight. It will require a different kind of thinking for developers.
Nintendo isn't crash proof (Virtual Boy, anyone?) but this product is certainly interesting, and has some potential for RPG's, strategy games, maybe FPS kind of games. If nothing else, it certainly can give the PSP some interesting introductory challenges to face.
Re:Er - Huh? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Er - Huh? (Score:2)
I only wish the thing supported GBA games (it sounds like it won't - esp as it is using a new type of media).
Re:If you have it, flaunt it (Score:2)
I guess if you could settle for pokey pci cards then it'd work fine.
so this is the future of nintendo? (Score:2, Interesting)
as I do not see that going down my pocket, two screens and all.
but again pretty neat, but it feels like an other VR-google for the GameBoy.
Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe this will lead to lower prices on other handheld systems which would be nice, even if this system becomes a dud
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
I just have this one thing to say about this product: BLEH.
it's virtual boy all over again, cool on it's own level but bleh.
-
Re:Interesting (Score:2)
Risky move (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Risky move (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll alienate the ones that aren't serious about making good games. Not so horrible in a saturated market.
Re:Risky move (Score:2)
Having two screens just complicates the simple need the machine is supposed to satisfy. Not to mention the additional weight, size and cost. As someone wiser than me once said, KISS.
Re:Risky move (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but I think you over-trivialize the entire idea of a port from the GC or PS2 to any handheld - Sure, they can possibly used similarly-themed games, but keep in mind that while the PS2 performs comparably to a mid-range PC with high-end graphics, the GBA has only slightly more powerful hardware than the original SNES, a 13-year old console with a 16-bit CPU.
Nothing that runs on the PS2 or GC will directly port to the GBA (or this new 2-screen model), other than cheezy puzzle games (and even them only with 99% of the special effects cut out). The GBA has carved out a niche for itself in classic-style RPG games for a reason - They don't take too much CPU power to have a great storyline, and they don't require 90% of the development costs go toward eye-candy. That wouldn't work on the PS2, nor would FFX2 work on the GBA.
For that specific market, those who really enjoy console RPGs, a second screen for things like zoomed-out maps or party status, a second screen sounds like an amazingly good idea. Even for numerous other games, I can think of endless uses... I don't care for sports games, but imagine having each screen show one side of the field/court/rink/whatever. For platform games, the zoomed-out map idea still works well. Same for action (FPS?) games, with the addition of status and weapons not taking up the main view. Really, this seems like a great, innovative idea that makes me wonder why no one thought of it before (So it would take two TVs - A 19" tv costs under $100 (easily $25 used), about the same as two games). And imagine the boost to two-player games, each having their own screen!
So, regarding ports, it wouldn't surprise me to see ports go the other way, with the next gen of non-handheld consoles supporting more than one TV (or at the very least, a standardized split-screen mode for 16:9 TVs).
Re:Risky move (Score:2)
Hardly... Nowadays the ps2 is more like a lowend pc with very average graphics. People in general tend to forget that tv displays are very forgiving. Hook that ps2 up to your vga monitor and see just how crap the resolution and quality really is.
Re:Risky move (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest thing that console gamers forget, when comparing graphics, is that you're not talking about the same scale. 480p roughly looks like 640x480... nobody even runs their desktop at that
Re:Risky move (Score:2)
it's the habit of people having just one tv for their entertainment set. I'm talking about normal families here - the kind of that buy consoles for their kids/teens. If/when they buy another tv it goes to the kitchen, kids room or whatever.
Re:The GBA is a little more powerful than an SNES. (Score:3, Informative)
Not entirely untrue, but I think you took me entirely too literally and missed the bigger point...
The GBA has an ARM-7 chip clocked at 16Mhz. For comparison, the original SNES had a 16-bit 65c816 at 3.58Mhz. Better than 4x as fast, you might say, and that doesn't even consider the far superior chip architecture involved. Fair enough.
Now, for a quick glance at the PS2... It
Interesting idea but... (Score:5, Insightful)
2 screens & 2 processors - thats gotta chew up the batteries pretty quick relative to a standard GameBoy...
Also how useful will the second screen be in a fast paced game where 'glancing at the second screen' = painful death?
Re:Interesting idea but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Interesting idea but... (Score:2, Funny)
Lord knows how many Pikachus I lost doing that...
Another not so hot idea from Nintendo (Score:3, Interesting)
How much is going to cost me for a second screen? How is this going to be laid out? Seems like a two screened GameBoy would be pretty akward. And the most important question, will there be a game that use the second screen in a unique enough manner to warrant buying this thing. Please Niintendo, I want to love you. Why must you keep coming up with these retarded ideas?
The killer GC->GBA app isn't on the GC.. (Score:3, Interesting)
psnxdc
Re:Another not so hot idea from Nintendo (Score:2)
IGN List of GBA-Cube Connected Games [ign.com]
Re:Another not so hot idea from Nintendo (Score:5, Interesting)
I also think that Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles will be the killer app for GBA GC connectivity. Other than the problems pointed out by Penny Arcade in this comic http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-0
First Thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
uh-oh, deja vu (Score:2, Insightful)
sounds a little like the virtual boy, doesn't it?
NES Rep (Score:3, Informative)
Re:NES Rep (Score:2)
Unless this thing plays existing GC or GBA games, don't count on that.
Re:NES Rep (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, May is 4 months away and we haven't even seen a picture of the device yet, or any indication of what games they're working on for it. We don't even know if the system will do 2D or 3D graphics. I can't see a May release date as remotely serious.
well.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:well.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:well.... (Score:2)
Re:well.... (Score:2)
Virtual Boy 2 (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems Nintendo management hasn't learned
Re:Virtual Boy 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't you wait until there's just a little more information and then make your judgement.
Also, why does everyone keep comparing it to the Virtual Boy?...it's NOT the Virtual Boy, and how ever it turns out, it still wont be the Virtual Boy, so the fate of the Virtual Boy is irrelevant when looking at this.
Re:Virtual Boy 2 (Score:3, Insightful)
Because the Virtual Boy was also a supposedly "innovative" gaming system that wasn't really very interesting at all beyond the initial gimmick factor, and because this handheld is going to flop almost or as badly as it did.
Re:Virtual Boy 2 (Score:2)
"Virtual Boy" is a metaphor for what some people think is going to happen to this system, in their opinion.
They are not saying it is going to fail because it is like the Virtual Boy, they are saying it is going to fail the same way the Virtual Boy failed, although for different reasons.
No, it is not fated to fail like the Virtual Boy, either because of its similarities or its differences, but people are entitled to their opinions. And give what little we know about thi
game and watch folded too... (Score:4, Interesting)
3D Gameboy? (Score:4, Funny)
cell? (Score:2, Interesting)
A side note:
To me, the dual screen thing does make sense. Someone must have realized that you can't increase the screen size on a portable past what is is without making the form factor unreasonable and realized that a bottom part on a folded portable has more screen real estate. Personally I'm a little disapointed they did
3d (Score:2)
UI issues? (Score:2)
Re:UI issues? (Score:2)
Hey, did Iwata get his 10 percent? (Score:4, Insightful)
Two players? (Score:2)
Otherwise, I'll wait for the cool software.
Here is a though. (Score:2)
to quote (Score:2)
Unimpressive (Score:2)
This appears to be the level of thinking here:
Otto: You know those guitars, that are like, double guitars, you know?
I mean, it's just *got* too be cooler, right? Reading the article, they are certainly clutching at straws for valid applications for this "innovation." Nintendo, just kill this nonsense now and create a Gameboy wit
Re:Unimpressive (Score:2)
Games must specially be coded for it however, due to factors such being able to deal with signal loss due to interference.
Re:Unimpressive (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting. I knew that they must have had some purpose, aside from looking a bit silly
Still, 2 screens is a hardware change based somewhat in the PC world that has been mostly unused
I suspect that, like the double guitar, t
No Pictures? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Like they just don't know how to put it together, but have developed it and need to release it.
I mean I know they try not to over hype, but this thing is out soon enough that a little teaser shot would be quite appropriate (unlike my spelling).
Dual screen possibilities (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, I thought they were going to use the 8cm discs in thier newer products and for it to be a "de facto standard" [gamerweb.com]. Looks like they are sticking with solid state.
My first thoughts on the dual screens is so that the device can be closed with the screens touching, thus being protected. However, there may also be other reasons... observe:
* Playing Battleship the way it was meant to be played. One screen has your ships and the other has where you fired.
* Flip the screen around and use it for two player games. The unit may even have a second controller for this purpose.
* Hook up to special headgear that would position device right in front of eyes to recreate Virtual Boy experience. (my favorite)
* Plug two Pokemon cartridges (1 screen for each game) into device to trade Pokemon back and forth. It is all about the Pokemon after all.
These are just a few unique gaming concepts I can think of at the moment. Anyone else care to speculate?
Re:Dual screen possibilities (Score:5, Interesting)
Applications of having two screens on simutaneously:
Metal Gear/Splinter Cell: You hack into a security camera and it constantly displays it on the second screen. Shit, it could even show a bank of security cameras in split screen.
Racing games: Primary screen shows normal driving view, secondary screen shows a bird's eye view so you could see potential overtakers coming from behind. Or red shells.
Football: Screen splits into four quadrants and shows your recievers.
Smash Bros: No more extreme zooming. One screen has your character, the other has a nice overview
RPGs/Stategy: Stats, inventory. I'm sure there's a more creative use I haven't thought of. Like a second party, or something.
Strategy, mainly Real Time: The second screen could keep an eye on your base, or you could coordinate two attacks.
Of course, there's the obvious application of a map/radar, inventory, objectives, health, etc, that could work for ANY game, even a port.
Now, I came up with all that in the space of 20 minutes, while distracted. I can't wait to see what Miyamoto is coming up with.
Also, I'm calling it. Pikmin 2 is moved to the DS. Think about it: There are two playable characters. I mean, really. Plus, they've been rather quiet about it lately.
Nintendo handhelds are becoming outdated. (Score:2)
3D games. Yeah, "graphics don't make a game", but they sure sell a console. The Game Boy doesn't have much serious competition now, which is why it can survive as a mostly 2D platform. The N-Gage doesn't count as serious competition.
Looking at gaming history, everything gets passed from higher-end hardware to lower-end hardware over time. For example, there was
Concept Art (Score:5, Funny)
It's all in the specs... (Score:2, Insightful)
aren't.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Arcade PunchOut (Score:3, Interesting)
The very first thing I thought of with dual screens was Nintendo's Arcade Punchout, Super Punchout, and Arm Wrestling game. I'm almost betting that the dual screens will be vertical, ie. stacked right on top of each other... with the controls to the left and right of the bottom one (exactly like the "Game&Watch"). Unique concept, IMHO.... but I think taking advantage of the dual screens will be difficult. My guess will be that the extra screen won't be taken advantage of by most game developers because they are simply not original enough, and there's only so much you can do with it. It will probably be typically used for a "status" display, scoring or radar in most games.
The other question I beg to ask, is will it be backwards compatible with GBA? If so, what will happen with the other screen? I'm hoping it won't turn on, and drain the batteries.
Dual processors! (Score:2)
Wow, a lot of you can't think. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing most of you who are trouncing this idea are PC game players or people who have never used a hand held game system. In any game with a large amount of information, say every RPG or RTS there is a lot of time spent bring up extra menus or pausing the game to hit a sub menu system. With two screens, one probably located directly below the other near the controls, now you just have to glance down to grab additional info. The LCD screens being used here don't have very high resolution to keep the costs reasonable so a second screen is an easy way to add much more feedback to the game player.
This console sounds like it is a direct result of the GC-GBA link system. When done right (see Zelda, Final Fantasy Chronicles) it is an amazing thing. The GBA link actually gives us what Sega promised with the dreamcast VMU except in colour and with a lot more than just basic, bland static information.
Sheesh just imagine a RTS game like Advance Wars where the secondary display shows a zoomed out map area and other random stats but automatically changes over to an info pane when you move your selector over one of your own or an enemy unit. That's not cool?
Re:Gigabit? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gigabit? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm flipping over the idea of two screens, though. I assume they're going to be placed vertically, with the top screen as the "game play" screen, and the bottom screen as a menu/map/status reporter/whatever.
It would be neat if this thing had the ability to add extra peripherials, like a GPS with moving map or movie players.
Re:Gigabit? (Score:2)
1Gigabit = 4X the size of max GBA game (Score:2, Interesting)
Uses carts, not discs. Click for evidence. (Score:2)
128mb of ram
The press release stated that the 1 Gbit figure refers to an unspecified form of "semiconductor memory." I'm guessing this means 128 MB of ROM, implying that games are stored on cartridges. If the new handheld had 128 MB of RAM, the press release would have stated so.
Re:Assumptions? (Score:2)
That's in the article summary, the GameSpy article, and the Nintendo Press release.
no wait, you're right..we're all assuming things....
talking about NES emulators (Score:2)
I want Linux/GNU/nestra
The NES emulation community has moved beyond Nestra. Try FCE Ultra [xodnizel.net] instead.
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
This seems like an incredibly gimmicky product to me, and I predict it will fail as dramatically as the Virtual Boy did.
Nintendo is *really* going to have to do better than this if they're going to continue to be viable as a hardware manufacturer - and before the Nintendo fanboys flame me, I own a Gamecube, GBA, and GBA Player.
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Interesting)
1) It's a break from the whole "Supremacy through system specs" scheme that Nintendo's never been a fan of (Gamecube's no hardware monster, just knows what it wants to do).
2) This is going to force game designers to be a little creative, unless the designers just reject it and the system bombs. Still, it's good to see some forward-thinking minds in an industry driven by sequels upon sequels.
I'll say it right now, I'm going to buy one of these. It's great having Nintendo around for reasons like this and though this looks like an obvious bomb, I want to support them all the way. It looks like they're carrying the torch that Sega dropped, and nobody looks fit to taken from Nintendo if they fall. Let's turn video games into an art medium, not a commercial playground
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
Re:Huh (Score:2)
240x320 fits nicely (Score:2)
It will also be harder to put on a computer screen in a good size simply because said computer screen will be unable to fit both screens at a large size within its aspect ratio.
I've already solved one problem. By all guesses, this new system uses a pair of GBA-size LCD panels. That would make the total display 240x320 pixels, which is coincidentally the same size as the Pocket PC display. Scale2x [sourceforge.net] the emulated display to 480x640 pixels, and you have something that could comfortably fit in a window on a 1
Re:The reason for the dual screens (Score:2, Insightful)
Plus there's the 'horde of nerds' factor, who take it as a challenge to emulate/hack/install-linux-on the next big thing.
Re:The reason for the dual screens (Score:2, Insightful)
Although I can't really see a good reason for doing this at present (because there are no games), there is a perfectly good reason that Nintendo is doing this. INNOVATION.
N64 used carts because the load times were a lot better than optical media of the day. Seriously. Look at load times on an N64, then at the PSX. Sure they might have been more expensive than a PSX disc, and didn't hold enough data, but from a purely technical standpoint, it was a far better idea.
When the GameCube came about, optica
Re:The reason for the dual screens (Score:2)
Re:The reason for the dual screens (Score:2)
I would also note that using a PC to display a game originally played on a three-inch screen - or on two three-inch screens - is cake. Neither size nor resolution would be an issue.
Re:The reason for the dual screens (Score:2)
It's a smart business model to sell more often for less cost but still make profit from Every sale. Not like the "wall street" goons that are baseing their whole model on "cornering" the market and jacking up prices. The mini-DVD format is a scary change for them
Multi-monitor PC games (Score:2)
There are more than a few PC games now that use multiple monitors (ie, the game is aware of separate physical monitors laid out vertically or horizontally, not just mapped as one large display).
Microsoft Flight Sim [microsoft.com] has proper multi-monitor support.
Matrox lists 19 dual-monitor games [matrox.com] on their site.
There may be others.
Re:This is innovative; (Score:2)
Re:Double the pleasure, double the fun. (Score:2)
Never in all of my life have I seen moderation be part of the joke. Good teamwork, everyone.
Re:Interesting Spec (Score:3, Interesting)
ARM9 Family:
32-bit RISC processor core with ARM(R) and Thumb(R) instruction sets
5-stage integer pipeline achieves 1.1 MIPS/MHz
Up to 300 MIPS (Dhrystone 2.1) in a typical 0.13m process
Single 32-bit AMBA bus interface
MMU supporting Windows CE, Symbian OS, Linux, Palm OS (ARM920T and ARM922T)
Memory Protection Unit (MPU) supporting a range of Real Time Operating Systems including VxWorks (ARM940T)
Integrated instruction and data caches
Excellent debug
Re:Look forward to buying one from the bargain bin (Score:5, Informative)
2nd equal in home consoles and an iron grasp monopoly in the handheld market. When will dim witted morons like you get a clue and realise Nintendo is doing what is does best? Making games and gaming hardware. And they're making a pretty penny out of it too.